Mr. Gibbs, Your Rude Awakening is Calling

[GSF]

Gibbs made huge mistakes this off-season.

1. Letting Ryan Clark go

2. Signing Archuleta to be the highest paid safety in the league.

3. Letting the QB coach walk. Should have kept him around. Brunell played better with Musgrave around.

4. Hiring Al Saunders. Gibbs broke franchise records last year with Portis and Moss. His sytem was fine and the players loved it. Gibbs should have added a receiver or two and called it a day.

None of the above has anything to do with Snyder. He hired Gibbs to make the above decisions and Gibbs made them.

Gibbs fault.

We were really on a roll last year until Brunell got hurt in the Giants game. That second Dallas game was vintage Gibbs ball. it wasn't broke, why did he try to fix it?

[Major Harris]

What bothers me most about Gibbs' decisions is that in two blow-out losses this year, Campbell has not seen any time on the field. Well, if you don't want to start him yet, what time is better to get some reps in a game situation than in a blow-out loss? At some point, they've got to get Campbell on the field this year. They need to see if he's worth the picks they spent on him. I don't understand the logic of not starting him, then making him sit on the bench when the game is far out of hand. How does that translate into him getting better as a quarterback who probably will be the starter next year? It worries me that Gibbs does not see this.

well, he's the 3rd qb, so he can't come in unless brunell and collins get hurt.

now, collins being the 2nd qb, that's a whole other topic.

[illone]

We were really on a roll last year until Brunell got hurt in the Giants game. That second Dallas game was vintage Gibbs ball. it wasn't broke, why did he try to fix it?

Exactly, GSF. That's a great question that nobody but Gibbs himself can answer. I mean to break TWO franchise records in ONE season, yet we need a new guy upstairs calling plays?

I dunno man, sounds like Gibbs has lost his edge. Maybe he lost the team with that move. basically he admitted that he didn't have it anymore, rather than step up and show that he did. Players latch on to subtle nuances like that. "Well our coach didn't believe in what we did last year, why not?"

[EersSkins05]

I agree with this assessment more so than Tarhog's.

The bottom line is that we're past the halfway point in year 3 of the second Joe Gibbs tenure, and he's SEVERAL games below .500 in that time.

The team built to win now is going down in flames.

I don't know that a new coach is the way to go, but I know that the decisions made in the last few years, particularly bringing in Brunell, letting Clark go in favor of AA, 3rd round pick for a guy that never plays, 3 picks for a QB that won't be allowed to touch the field through 2 seasons, despite the fact that the QB in front of him might be the worst starting QB in the NFL...

A change is warranted. It's just how severe that change needs to be that is the question.

[The Sisko]

Enjoy your break. You want to come back, you PM Major an apology. He can then forward it to me for your re-instatement.

I was wondering how far down I'd have to scroll to see that response. Excellent. :applause:

With that said, I'm with you 100% Major. I respect Gibbs just as much as Bubba or anybody else. However, sometimes a man's gotta know his limitations and Gibbs' strength was never evaluating talent. Furthermore, he wouldn't be the first coach to give up responsibility for personnel. Mike Holmgren made it to the SB in Seattle after doing just that.

With Snyder out of the decision making process I think it's obvious who the fly in the ointment is. We need to replace Cerrato with a personnel guy that actually has a clue.

[StJoe4Life]

Gibbs is competent. The other people in this organization are not. Look at Gibbs I - a hug edifference from right now.

[illone]

Gibbs is competent. The other people in this organization are not. Look at Gibbs I - a hug edifference from right now.

Gibbs is a competent coach, but not a competent Team President.

[joeblake75]

Ok here it goes Jason Campbell will not play this year cause on Redskins.com they asked Gibbs if he was gonna bench Brunell anywhere in the game and he said yeah i thought about it with 9minutes to go and he than he said it would've been Todd Collins in the game i'm sorry i like Joe Gibbs but this thing about winning the Super Bowl with an over the hill QB won't work anymore and as long as he is Headcoach i don't see Jason Campbell getting any playing time....So i have packed in my season and i am hoping for a good pick the draft next year...Sorry i'm a skins who can't take anymore and i am fed up with this team winning than losing 8 in a row it's not the playcalling it's the production and why on 3rd and 8 you throw a slant pass that nets 2 yards all cause Brunell checked off and they are afraid to throw it deep cause he has no arm...i was yelling it the whole game please put in Campbell please put in Campbell.....But in reality that'll never happen

[TheLongshot]

You MAY have a case to say that in the case of Pierce (he wasn't that expensive, it coudl've been done) but most certainly NOT in the case of Clark. With all the money we spent, 30 mil on an inferior safety minus the leadership and smarts, and the cap space we still have left, we SURELY could have afforded 7 mil for 5 years with 1.65 guaranteed. His agent stated that if the Redskins had, at any time during 05, made a similar offer that he'd still be a Redskin. Who's responsible for falling for those decisions? It seems to me it's got be either GW or Joe, either way Gibbs at least signed off on it. I'm not trying to condemn Gibbs, zoony may be right that he was simply asked (asked himself) to do more than possible given his time away. I don't want to see Gibbs fired or retire and I want him to stay longer than the 2 years he has left. But Major is right, Gibbs does bear a lion's share of the responsibility for the way the team looks right now and the direction it's taken and he's made some uncharacteristic mistakes. I wish I knew why that was the case.

The decision was Ryan Clark's, because he knew that he wasn't going to start here with Arch just recently signed. At that point, it doesn't matter what you offer.

Now, some may question the need of signing Arch in the first place, but it has been well established by Gibbs that if there is a guy that they think can help improve this team, they are going to get that guy. It was thought that Arch was going to be that guy in the SS position. Whether that was the right decision in the long run will play itself out. (And no, it hasn't played itself out yet.)

Funny, tho, that the lack of Arch's presence hasn't improved on the passing defense. It tells me that removing Clark is not the major reason why our pass defense has stunk.

Jason

[The Sisko]

Joeblake75, take a deep breath. Now, use the enter key to create paragraphs periodically.....please.

[Merlin Emrys]

you are retarded go have sex with your cousins

That kind of crap could get you banned from new threads. Say it again. I dare you.

[TheLongshot]

However, sometimes a man's gotta know his limitations and Gibbs' strength was never evaluating talent.

And he doesn't have that job. That's Vinny's job. What Joe's job is to take that analysis and make decisions based on that. Now, if there is a fault in the analysis, it is something Joe needs to take care off. Thing is, he seems to be happy with the players he has.

Jason

[Merlin Emrys]

A bunch of idiots in this thread. There's no doubt Gibbs is completely in charge of personnel and team decisions and has been since he returned. I still love the guy, I don't want him to leave or get fired, but this team IS his responsiblity. I got your back, Major :gang:

That makes two. As Major said, we all love Gibbs, but his inability to hold players accountable at this point is a huge problem. Sure, he says it's all his fault, but what has he done to fix the situation?

[TheLongshot]

I'd think that his mentality is to still win both now & in the future. But by bringing in Saunders, we've definately taken a step back in order to take two forward. Again, this year just reminds me way to much of Year One in Gibbs 2.0

I think if there is one mistake that Gibbs made, it was in thinking that he could install a new offense and reap the benefits of it immediately. I don't think he was thinking that Brunell was going to struggle with it as much as he has. Course, none of us thought that the D was going to collapse as spectacularly as it has. Thing is, you can't really point to the personnel changes as being the reason, since holdover players aren't playing nearly as well as they had last year. So, in the end, I don't think the change in o-coordinators would have mattered all that much in the end, looking back on things.

The important thing right now is to evaluate what we do have, what works, and what we need next year to get better.

Jason

[HTTRedskinsFunBunch]

Maybe becase Gibbs is proven? He has beat Joe Montana and the 86 Bears in the playoffs.

What as Snyder done?

Thats life, your resume is your crediblity.

As a Former Corporate Head Hunter and director of HR, I really needed to question that last little line you have there MR. Thick and Thin...

I dont know of any True professional in any sport or corportate structure that would believe that you could survive on the credibility of a resume' very long. In a world where "what have you done for me lately" is alot more accurate statement rather then your resume' is your credibility, Your resume' will only get your foot thru the door, your Talen at your profession must keep you in the game.. What TRUE professional would rest on his laurels from 15 years ago saying that is enough to keep his job today? Not many that I would know, or even respect for that matter.. I'm not saying GIBBS is a bust as of yet. But past Super Bowls aside, He has to show improvement in managing his players and get the best out of them or like any manager in buisness, or coach in sports, They are Hired to be Fired!:logo:

[Merlin Emrys]

Brian Billick fired Fassel in Baltimore to regain control of offensive playcalling. Not saying Gibbs should do that, but ultimately he's in control of what goes on on the playing field.

Part of the problem is he hasn't totally given play calling duties over. Some reports I've heard go as far to say that once the Skins get inside the 35 yard line, Gibbs takes control. The O-Coordinator can't call the right game if he doesn't have total control. Gibbs should start by letting Saunders have the reigns. This would also mean inserting a QB who can throw the ball downfield like Saunders did in KC.

[TheLongshot]

Part of the problem is he hasn't totally given play calling duties over. Some reports I've heard go as far to say that once the Skins get inside the 35 yard line, Gibbs takes control. The O-Coordinator can't call the right game if he doesn't have total control. Gibbs should start by letting Saunders have the reigns. This would also mean inserting a QB who can throw the ball downfield like Saunders did in KC.

Gibbs has gone on record that he only makes the call on 4th down, and probably the decision to go for 2. Otherwise, Saunders pretty much has full control.

Jason

[Merlin Emrys]

I think that its time for change, but the past decisions/philosophies that have been made by Snyder and friends pre-GibbsII are out of Joe's control.

HTTR

Which past decisions are hurting the Skins now? Name a few specifici examples. Gibbs has had plenty of time to clean house and remake this team. The Dieon, Jeff George, Steve Spurrier, and Bruce Smith mistakes are not an issue with this team. The fact that the current players are not improving on the field is. It's the head coaches job to get the most out of his team.

[DCSKINZ80]

I think Gibbs HAS to make the change to JC this week. He'll not only lose us fans if he doesn't but he'll start to lose the team. There's no way around it.

Gibbs has to ask himself this question: What more can I expect from Brunell? Is he going to turn into Manning all of a sudden? Brunell is only capable of "not" losing a game. He sure as hell will not win for you.

Another question, are we good enough to have a QB who will only be asked to manage a game?

Hell NO! We are currently sucking in all phases of the game. So you have to ask yourself the question, why cling to Brunell? Sure he's a veteran QB but he's inconsistent, plays scared, and most of all he lacks the necessary skills to make the team play better.

Look at what good QB's do for their teams and then look at what Mark Brunell does for the Redskins. It pisses me off seeing how inept we are while seeing these other teams make it look so damn easy. We have Cooley, Portis (not anymore), Moss, Lloyd, Randel El and we can't even deliver the ball to them?

JC or someone other than Brunell needs to have a shot. The time is now. The Coaches can't let this masquerade continue. Maybe JC is worse or maybe he's better. Maybe the whole identity, effort, and focus of the offense improves or maybe it doesn't? I'm willing as a fan to accept the chance that this experiment may fail. If anything, we can say we've exhausted all possibilities.

[Merlin Emrys]

Gibbs has gone on record that he only makes the call on 4th down, and probably the decision to go for 2. Otherwise, Saunders pretty much has full control.

Jason

I know he's said that on record, but he also made a side comment several weeks ago re: play calling inside the 35. There was an entire thread about it. When you see Gibbs on the sideline looking at a play sheet and talking on his headset when the Skins get inside the opponents territory, it's hard to know what to think.

[Merlin Emrys]

Thing is, you seem to want blood. You want Gibbs to call out players in public. Well, guess what? As soon as you start doing that, you are going to lose the team. Players aren't going to respect you.

Nobody wants players called out publicly. We want to see things that are continual problems fixed. One example would mean improving an o-line that has underperfomred. If that means a new coach, then so be it. Another example from today's game would be DBs being coached not to play 10 yards off receivers every down. How many times do you have to get beat that way before the head coach intervenes and demands some jamming at the line?

[RedskinzOwnU]

Gibbs is a horrible talent evaluator, and he's mucking with Saunders' offense. He's meddling in too many things that he doesn't know anything about (personnel), and meddling in other things that he already admitted he isn't capable of doing (the offense). This season is shot, but he can still salvage his legacy if he wins in the next 2 years. The only way he will do this is with Campbell, so might as well get ready for it ASAP.

[TheLongshot]

Nobody wants players called out publicly. We want to see things that are continual problems fixed. One example would mean improving an o-line that has underperfomred. If that means a new coach, then so be it.

What if it requires new players? More than likely, that player isn't on the team right now. What if it is just inconsistancy that you can't nail on one player, but otherwise seems to be a solid unit?

Another example from today's game would be DBs being coached not to play 10 yards off receivers every down. How many times do you have to get beat that way before the head coach intervenes and demands some jamming at the line?

It would be nice if someone asks Williams why he likes his DBs so far off the line. Otherwise, I can't answer that question.

Fact is, the definition from a fan of "doing something" is either to have the results show up on the field, or to make a player change. If they don't see a change, people don't think the team is "doing something" when they are trying their darndest. The education process can be painfully slow at times.

Jason

[G.A.C.O.L.B.]

I think Joe needs to hire more offensive consultants.

Jim Fassel?

[SoCalSkins]

I don't think he was thinking that Brunell was going to struggle with it as much as he has.

Brunell has been struggling? When did this happen. Reading your posts all year, he has been doing great. It is all on the defense.

Where are the stats to defend your boy? Jumping off the bandwagon only after 2.5 years of worthlessness from Mark? If we only had a better D we could protect the 3 points Brunell has put up against the division on the road.