Hate to say it but........

[BigRay]

I am far from the biggest 8 supporter in here. Having said that, anyone who looks at this season's game film up to this point (as I have repeatedly) and comes to the conclusion that Brunell is to blame..........well, thay are frankly not bright.

Grab yourself a copy of the Minny, NYG, or *gulp* Tenn games and take an honest look at the defense. I don't mean just against the run either (that is too obvious)....I mean across the board. And if your argument is "they are on the field too long", look at how they respond coming out after resting at half time. Look at how they responded after our TD drive to tie the Tenn game (and that time they even let Tenn drive it from their own goal line).

Brunell is not a marquis QB -- would never try to claim that. However....the most glaring weakness with this team isn't even on Brunell's side of the ball. Never in a million yrs did I think I would say that.....but it's true.

:applause: :applause: Can I get Amen ! .. I think Brunell should shoulder some of the blame but to put all the blame on him is crazy there is a little bit of everybody not doing their job on this team. The defense hasn't really stop anyone all year .

I repeat I am not a big Brunell fan but fair is fair to put all the blame on him is not right there is so many things to look at on this team.

[illone]

You're missing the point all together, again.

You obviously have very thin skin if a little comment like 'turn in your fan card' is taken offensively, or against the rules.

pleaseblitz original comment is something very common here. We take care of ourselves. We clown guys who post rediculous topics (like this one). Release the swarm, if you may.

Most of us are able to take a little ribbing, especially where it's warranted, and the original poster of this thread definitely deserved it. Again, this thread is a waste of space. Next time you try to throw the rules at someone you should know the unspoken rules we have here. Taking a bit of ribbing when you post dribble is one of them.

Let's try this one more time: You have no room to throw the rule book at pleaseblitz.

Period, end.

[InsaneBoost]

[SkinzFoLife]

I don't think its Brunell, its everyone learning a 700 page playbook and new scheme. It will take them a year to get adjusted.

[notagain]

Man to be new on this site, I have noticed that anything said negative against Brunell and or Gibbs is meant with severe harsh childish remarks. It appears that there are some people here that feel that Brunell and Gibbs can do no wrong.

[SkinsFTW]

Look at the Titans last drive (where they ran the ball at will and marched it from their own goal line all the way into range for the game winner. This scenario is almost exactly like the one vs Minny. We were in a position where we KNEW what was coming and could do nothing about it. We allowed those teams to take our will by ramming it down our throat, eating up the clock, and putting our offense in a position of desperation.

As for the Giants game, the way our "tired" defense looked on the opening drive of the second half........well, it was quite possibly the worst showing in a single drive that I have seen from a team this yr.

And as for the lack of offensive production being the key to the defense's demise......

Cue up film during the '04 season. Definately GW's best defense since he arrived here. Funny thing is, this year's offense looks like a juggernaut compared to the one in '04.

The Titans started the drive at midfield not at their goalline because our offense didn't move the ball, yes the Titans did run the ball almost at will but our defense had stopped them for nothing the previous 4 drives and our offense scored once in our 4 drives. You can't expect a very injured defense to totally shut out an offense when our offense goes 3 and out in 3 of 4 drives. The offense needs to pick up the slack. Griffen and Salaveaa did not play, Springs is still injured and Washington and others are hurt too. Rogers will be out this week. But our defense held in 4 of 5 drives and gave up 3 points. Our offense needs to score, period.

As for our defensive showing in the 2nd half against the Giants again I say that its unrealistic to expect our defense to allow 0 points to the Giants. If thats what you expect then go cheer for the Chargers or Bears. They might do it. But our offense only scored 3 points against them and also 3 against the Cowboys. Were not going to win 3-0 games this year.

[mikeyf316]

Ok, let's take this from the same tone that you provide and claim is warranted for people who post topics you disagree with. We'll skate along that personal attack line that you feel is appropriate. I'll tell you in advance that I don't necessarily agree with the points I am making below, but am making them in the manner in which you say it's OK to do in order to demonstrate the point:

***

You're missing the point all together, again.

Just because you can't follow logic doesn't mean I'm missing your point. When you're intelligent enough to address my points, we can go back and start working on yours.

You obviously have very thin skin if a little comment like 'turn in your fan card' is taken offensively, or against the rules.

If you're not bright enough to follow the obvious logic before you, I wouldn't make it the cornerstone of your arguement about how you assess another poster.

pleaseblitz original comment is something very common here. We take care of ourselves. We clown guys who post rediculous topics (like this one). Release the swarm, if you may.

No problem with "releasing the swarm" unless, of course, the swarm is a mob that isn't smart enough to follow the rules. Figure out the proper way in which to criticize before becoming part of the problem.

Most of us are able to take a little ribbing, especially where it's warranted, and the original poster of this thread definitely deserved it. Again, this thread is a waste of space. Next time you try to throw the rules at someone you should know the unspoken rules we have here. Taking a bit of ribbing when you post dribble is one of them.

Who are you to determine who deserves some form of treatment? You don't have the authority to judge anybody. So you're in charge now? Maybe you should fill everybody in on the unspoken rules and make sure they conform to the written rules for the site. And it's drivel, smart guy.

Let's try this one more time: You have no room to throw the rule book at pleaseblitz.

Period, end.

We can keep trying it all you want, but it's obvious that you're not going to get it. Your opinion is that I have no room to throw a rulebook at anybody. I showed logic. You showed opinion. Get over yourself.***

Dude, I don't like posting like that, and I apoligize for lowering my standards to do it. I used to do it far more frequently, and it leaves me feeling more ignorant for having done it every time. Not sure why anybody would want to embrace the practice. That all goes back to rule number 5 about how to treat people, and attack their ideas, not their person. Putting people into categories of fan and non-fan clearly attacks the person.

We can have a civil discussion without name calling or assigning attributes which we have no visibility of. You don't know who I am any more than I know who you are, yet you want to classify me as thin skinned. I called you tons of unwarranted stuff above, and had no proof of any of it. Why should it be an accepted board practice to set our community standards that low? I haven't given you the type of attitude that I've received; I'm asking that people be civil within the rules.

If people want to talk ****, that's fine, but really, to what point and purpose? What gets resolved by me writing like I did above? Not only are you not going to change your mind, you're going to allow the personal attacks to fuel your anger, and likely respond in kind. Why, as a community, allow the practice of attacking your fellow Redskins fans because of a difference of opinion? That seems extremely counterproductive to the intent of the board as a whole.

That is why the rules exist: to protect the cohesion of the community by providing a standard of decency and conduct. Because some people have found what they consider to be a loophole in the fan / non-fan grouping, they think it's OK to segregate the community, despite clear guidance to the opposite. It's not OK. It's one of the most damaging things this community could suffer, and it's being not only embraced but proliferated by some of the members of this board.

I don't see why any one element should be allowed to break the rules in order to discipline another element for breaking the rules. If you want to discuss that, let's see where it goes.

[Chachie]

I don't think its Brunell, its everyone learning a 700 page playbook and new scheme. It will take them a year to get adjusted.

Bingo. That's been the case all year long. Add this to a defense depleted by injury and we get 2-4.

[pjfootballer]

Calling a fan who has been following this team, regardless of length of time, fairweather or telling them to turn in their fan card breaks each of these points. If they were not a fan, they wouldn't be here following the team. You all know this, as their reason for being here is the same as yours. Stating different is knowingly endorsing false information. Using such a title to classify a person is defamitory and insulting. The same group are quite often harassed for their difference of opinion, rather than debated with. I know I've seen people in other threads call for "witch hunts" and to lynch other fans classifed into this group from a Redskins tree. That's not hateful?

Sorry you don't agree with me. Hopefully, you can agree with the rules you agreed to follow when you signed on.

Actually I agree with part of your argument. I don't like when someone calls me a "fair weather fan" or says "you were never a fan in the first place". I think that is an unfair judgement of someone you don't know.

But I have to disagree with you assessment that anyone broke the rules with "turn in your card". First, there are not actual cards (making them hypothetical). Second, unless he cursed or called him a name (i.e. jerkoff, jackass etc) he hasn't broken any rules.

If you think that something as harmless as that is breaking the rules, well 3/4 of all members in here would be on a short/long vacation from the mods. Let the mods police the board.

[skinsngibbs4life]

I got bashed relentlessly when I stated the obvious situation this team was in- statements like "wait and you will see a different team come regular season"

Well, we are six games into the season and not much has changed. I am so dissapointed in Gibbs and Co. and really have no hope of ever seeing the Redskins come back to glory.

I am venting and anyone that has hopes of us turning this season around is frankly delusional.

I guess everyone that thought we had a chance to turn the season around with five games left last year was also delusional

[PleaseBlitz]

Hey guys, looks like im still around. Guess i didnt break any rules, dispite the claims of our newest WOD. :nana:

And guess what? Seriously, anyone that feels the need to bail during week 6 on OUR TEAM just so he can act like he's so smart is a ****ty fan.

Dont agree with me? Well thats too bad.

Dont think i have expressed MY OPIONION nicely enough? Also too bad.

So...............

:stfu:

[illone]

mikeyf316,

While you are most certainly without thought, I really wish you were without keyboard, too. Go unplug your computer from the internet and crawl into your cave. I'd have you call the suicide hotline but they'd simply tell you to "go ahead".

[onedrop]

mikeyf316,

While you are most certainly without thought, I really wish you were without keyboard, too. Go unplug your computer from the internet and crawl into your cave. I'd have you call the suicide hotline but they'd simply tell you to "go ahead".

forgive my ignorance but, who is jrock and why is he not free?

[illone]

forgive my ignorance but, who is jrock and why is he not free?

Check PMs.

[skinsngibbs4life]

Actually I agree with part of your argument. I don't like when someone calls me a "fair weather fan" or says "you were never a fan in the first place". I think that is an unfair judgement of someone you don't know.

theres a BIG difference between rooting for your team to do bad so that you can prove your point right and pointing out areas about our team.

This guy is basically hoping that we lose. He seems more happy with us a losing than he would with us winning.

Now call me crazy, but usually when someone takes joy in a team losing, they are not a fan of that team.

[mikeyf316]

Actually I agree with part of your argument. I don't like when someone calls me a "fair weather fan" or says "you were never a fan in the first place". I think that is an unfair judgement of someone you don't know.

But I have to disagree with you assessment that anyone broke the rules with "turn in your card". First, there are not actual cards (making them hypothetical). Second, unless he cursed or called him a name (i.e. jerkoff, jackass etc) he hasn't broken any rules.

If you think that something as harmless as that is breaking the rules, well 3/4 of all members in here would be on a short/long vacation from the mods. Let the mods police the board.

I understand your point, but disagree with a narrow application of the rule. I believe that telling somebody to turn in their card is another way of saying the types of unfair judgement statements you referenced above. Lots of people don't feel that way on this board, but I think I've found a logical link between the term and the resulting treatment which warrants looking at the issue a little closer than most fans are willing to.

It's not a simple thing to provide an example of without using the easy categories of race or religion. I'll try to do it with a fictional example, rather than have an example using something as sensitive as race or religion mistaken for a statement of feeling.

Let's say we're all green. Green is a general color, and we're all it. Some are OD green, some are seafoam green, some are dark spinach green, some are neon green. When you tell somebody that they need to turn in their green membership card because you disagree with them, because neon green is not a color you like, you're telling them that they're not good enough to be part of your community of greens. You've treated somebody different and isolated them from the community by doing so.

That is the exact type of conduct I believe that the rules are designed to prevent. That is also the reason that I think the "innocent" grouping of fan and fairweather is not quite so innocent. That's why I've been arguing it for the better part of a week now, and will continue to try to make headway with people who are willing to listen, even if they don't agree.

Thanks for taking time to explain your position on the subject without resorting to name calling or a poor attitude.

[mikeyf316]

mikeyf316,

While you are most certainly without thought, I really wish you were without keyboard, too. Go unplug your computer from the internet and crawl into your cave. I'd have you call the suicide hotline but they'd simply tell you to "go ahead".

Glad you could think through a logical response. Thanks for your efforts.

[illone]

mikeyf316,

You are either a woman, or an extremely emotional man. Which one is it, cuz no guy I know would type that much and explain so little.

[mikeyf316]

Hey guys, looks like im still around. Guess i didnt break any rules, dispite the claims of our newest WOD.

I'd show concern had anybody thought your conduct was worth reporting. I'd rather try to talk to somebody to express a difference of opinion rather than go running to a Mod to have them resolve my issues.

It's sad that so many people take so little opportunity to grow personally, despite the numerous opportunities they are offered.

[MEXSKIN1]

I told you guy's back before the regular season started that we would struggle to make .500 this year w/Boonell under center.

Still think I'm crazy?

Well besides Brunell, nobody thought the defese was going to be one of the worst in the NFL this season. :point2sky

[Spaceman Spiff]

Mikeyf, I didn't know you could be a mod with such a low post count.

Loosen up a bit and don't take this stuff you find on ES so seriously.

[mikeyf316]

mikeyf316,

You are either a woman, or an extremely emotional man. Which one is it, cuz no guy I know would type that much and explain so little.

I'm glad you have found a fun way to express your random and apparently vast stupidity. Thanks for actually allowing me to spend a significant amount of time today organizing logical thought, despite the fact that brick walls can't understand the issues I'm presenting.

I'm not surprised that no guy you know would type a lot. I assume you don't get much time on the computer in juvie.

[PleaseBlitz]

Jeez thats a lot of words with very little meaning.

Lets go through it anyways......

I understand your point, but disagree with a narrow application of the rule. I believe that telling somebody to turn in their card is another way of saying the types of unfair judgement statements you referenced above. Lots of people don't feel that way on this board, but I think I've found a logical link between the term and the resulting treatment which warrants looking at the issue a little closer than most fans are willing to.

And who are you to determine the application of the rules? I dont see a Gibbs avatar. Here is your logical link: Suppossed "fans" that have given up on the Skins in WEEK 6 and brag about it on a REDSKINS FAN SITE are going to be treated poorly. Doesnt take a close look at the "issue" its just a fact of life here in Redskins nation.

It's not a simple thing to provide an example of without using the easy categories of race or religion. I'll try to do it with a fictional example, rather than have an example using something as sensitive as race or religion mistaken for a statement of feeling.

This should be good.................

Let's say we're all green. Green is a general color, and we're all it. Some are OD green, some are seafoam green, some are dark spinach green, some are neon green. When you tell somebody that they need to turn in their green membership card because you disagree with them, because neon green is not a color you like, you're telling them that they're not good enough to be part of your community of greens. You've treated somebody different and isolated them from the community by doing so.

That doesnt make any sense at all. Lets say we all say we are Redskins fans. Then one day, someone says "the Redskins suck, i told you so." Well, on THAT day that guy becomes something other than a Redskins fan. Fans root for their team.

That is the exact type of conduct I believe that the rules are designed to prevent. That is also the reason that I think the "innocent" grouping of fan and fairweather is not quite so innocent. That's why I've been arguing it for the better part of a week now, and will continue to try to make headway with people who are willing to listen, even if they don't agree.

Thanks for taking time to explain your position on the subject without resorting to name calling or a poor attitude.

Oh, so this is like your own little pet crusade? :laugh:

Maybe you should start reporting some posts to some real mods. See what happens. Until then, my :stfu: is still in effect.

[mikeyf316]

Mikeyf, I didn't know you could be a mod with such a low post count.

Loosen up a bit and don't take this stuff you find on ES so seriously.

Nobody's trying to be a Mod. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it's the position of the board as a whole that members who see a rule being violated should remedy the situation.

I don't take much of what happens here very seriously, mostly because few others seem to. My issue is the childish behavior that some run rampant with here. I saw it, expressed my opinion, backed it up with fact, and have gotten to engage in a wonderful conversation with somebody who believes I live in a cave and another who celebrates not being banned for something that wasn't reported like he's T.O.

If I'm still here and posting without flipping out, what makes everybody think that I'm doing anything but finding humor in the goofball responses I am getting from some people?

[Spaceman Spiff]

I'm glad you have found a fun way to express your random and apparently vast stupidity. Thanks for actually allowing me to spend a significant amount of time today organizing logical thought, despite the fact that brick walls can't understand the issues I'm presenting.

I'm not surprised that no guy you know would type a lot. I assume you don't get much time on the computer in juvie.

Can you be any more condascending?

I'd also like to take this time to point out that the title of this thread is "Hate to say it, but..." when clearly the original poster DOESNT hate to say it. No one hates to say I told you so. What a dunce.