Anything MMA, except thumb wrestling

[Patrick86L]

[Destino]

If an opponent is on top of you in your guard and they have at least one knee touching the ground, they are considered a "downed opponent" meaning that upkicking and kneeing to the head is illegal, even from your back. If you remember the Bisping fight with Jorge Rivera, he caught Rivera with a knee to the head while Rivera had one knee down, doing that from your back while your opponent has one knee down counts as a foul too, which is stupid IMO.

I agree with you about knees to a downed opponent but I'm still now seeing anything that would make me think knees from the bottom are effective. I think Joe Rogan has ranted a few times about the knee rules being ridiculous especially when a bent over fighter puts one hand on the ground. That rule needs to be changed because fighters are abusing it.

Being able to throw knees from the bottom threatens the guy shooting for the takedown. Under the unified rules, if a guy shoots for a single or double you can knee him in the head before his knee touches the ground. In Pride (and in Dream now) wrestlers couldn't just take a guy down over and over again and win the round that way because he had to worry about getting KO'd by a knee to the face. It made the fight more realistic and opened up the ground game.

You can't throw vertical elbows from the top or bottom position which is a dumb rule. You can only throw elbows laterally which is much more difficult when you're on the bottom and your opponent has your hips pinned to the mat. IMO, vertical elbows aren't any more dangerous than lateral elbows. And this is another rule that favors wrestlers and weakens the guard in MMA.

This works both ways though. Imagine dealing with wrestling that could downward elbow strike from the top and knee from the top to the head? Wrestlers would benefit tremendously from either of those being allowed. Also vertical elbows IMO are decidedly more dangerous as you can plant them with weight behind them while the nature of a lateral elbow is a cutting but glancing blow. Agree with you on upkicks though but I think the problem there is the definition of a downed opponent not taking into consideration that status of other participant. They really need to fix that and knees.

[NoCalMike]

I think if anything Elbows are just as dangerous due to their habit of opening bad cuts that effect the rest of the fight, if not cause it to end right then and there. Most times if a knee connect with your head, squarely, you are getting KTFO, not just cut.

[Bifflog]

Seems to me there is some confusion between "knees from the bottom" and knees from a sprawl position in this conversation!

[Destino]

Seems to me there is some confusion between "knees from the bottom" and knees from a sprawl position in this conversation!

We should replace both with "knees to a down opponent" and understand that applies to anyone with a knee or hand on the ground no matter what the other person is doing.

[NoCalMike]

To clarify my last comment, what I meant to suggest was; Even though knees can be dangerous, at least they usually end a fight decisively. Elbows, do not usually end fights do to KO power, what they do, do....is open up cuts that change the course of the fight, usually handicapping one of the opponents for the rest of the way out, and then sometimes they will end a fight due to the severity of the cut, even though, otherwise the fighter is not injured and/or gassed or anything. All that training, gone to waste due to a cut.

[#98QBKiller]

I agree with you about knees to a downed opponent but I'm still now seeing anything that would make me think knees from the bottom are effective. I think Joe Rogan has ranted a few times about the knee rules being ridiculous especially when a bent over fighter puts one hand on the ground. That rule needs to be changed because fighters are abusing it.

It's not the knees from the bottom that would be effective in that rule change, it would be the ability to threaten to counter a takedown with a knee to the head.

This works both ways though. Imagine dealing with wrestling that could downward elbow strike from the top and knee from the top to the head?

But takedowns would be harder to come by and they would have to defend elbow strikes and upkicks from the bottom. It evens out the game. Right now the rules favor wrestlers.

Wrestlers would benefit tremendously from either of those being allowed. Also vertical elbows IMO are decidedly more dangerous as you can plant them with weight behind them while the nature of a lateral elbow is a cutting but glancing blow. Agree with you on upkicks though but I think the problem there is the definition of a downed opponent not taking into consideration that status of other participant. They really need to fix that and knees.

Vertical elbows aren't more dangerous from the top because you generate a lot more force and momentum laterally and vice versa if you're playing guard.

I think if anything Elbows are just as dangerous due to their habit of opening bad cuts that effect the rest of the fight, if not cause it to end right then and there. Most times if a knee connect with your head, squarely, you are getting KTFO, not just cut.

I definitely agree with this. That makes it even more ridiculous that knees aren't allowed IMO.

---------- Post added March-22nd-2011 at 11:52 PM ----------

I agree with you about knees to a downed opponent but I'm still now seeing anything that would make me think knees from the bottom are effective. I think Joe Rogan has ranted a few times about the knee rules being ridiculous especially when a bent over fighter puts one hand on the ground. That rule needs to be changed because fighters are abusing it.

This works both ways though. Imagine dealing with wrestling that could downward elbow strike from the top and knee from the top to the head? Wrestlers would benefit tremendously from either of those being allowed. Also vertical elbows IMO are decidedly more dangerous as you can plant them with weight behind them while the nature of a lateral elbow is a cutting but glancing blow. Agree with you on upkicks though but I think the problem there is the definition of a downed opponent not taking into consideration that status of other participant. They really need to fix that and knees.

To clarify my last comment, what I meant to suggest was; Even though knees can be dangerous, at least they usually end a fight decisively. Elbows, do not usually end fights do to KO power, what they do, do....is open up cuts that change the course of the fight, usually handicapping one of the opponents for the rest of the way out, and then sometimes they will end a fight due to the severity of the cut, even though, otherwise the fighter is not injured and/or gassed or anything. All that training, gone to waste due to a cut.

That's a good point, elbows do cause a lot more fight-ending cuts.

[NoCalMike]

Yeah. I think Elbows overall are a tricky area. For example, in the Bones/Shogun fight, when Bones performed the spinning back Elbow, it was obvious Bones was trying to take Shogun out with it, and in theory I don't really have a problem with it in that kind of case.

Then you look at other situations, two guys in the clinch, up against the fence, and one is throwing these weak elbows that have no spacing or area to wind up to even damage their opponent, it is obvious they are just doing it to try and open up a cut on their opponents eye.

[Patrick86L]

[#98QBKiller]

Awesome video:

[StillUnknown]

[#98QBKiller]

Lil Nog's probably gonna get destroyed. He got tooled by Jason Brilz (lucky for him the judges were blind) and then got beat up by Ryan Bader. I don't see him winning this one either.

[StillUnknown]

Lil Nog's probably gonna get destroyed. He got tooled by Jason Brilz (lucky for him the judges were blind) and then got beat up by Ryan Bader. I don't see him winning this one either.

I actually hope this stays on the feet for a little bit. I want to see how Davis is progressing in his standup game. His wrestling and top control is well known, but his striking is still a bit of a mystery

[Chachie]

Awesome video:

Very cool, 98. Wandy was actually getting schooled in his debut but he hung in there and got the KO.

[jnhay]

tube;y7evtddm9dM]

Holy geez. Is 2:16 a legal hit? Seems like I would see that more often

[StillUnknown]

Holy geez. Is 2:16 a legal hit? Seems like I would see that more often

depends on where the event is held. Soccer stomps & kicks are legal in places like Japan, but not in the US

watch any old Shogun or Wandy highlights from Pride and you'll see them used all the time

[Patrick86L]

[#98QBKiller]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/644109-ufc-128-fall-out-suga-rashad-evans-running-scared-of-jon-jones

UFC 128 Fall Out: 'Suga' Rashad Evans Running Scared of Jon Jones

Whether in Mixed Martial Arts or anywhere else, you’re defined as a Champion by the people that you face and beat to win and retain the belt. As a former UFC Light-Heavyweight Champion, “Suga” Rashad Evans should know this as well as anyone.

So what is it that has provoked his displeasure at Jon “Bones” Jones and trainer Greg Jackson ahead of the proposed showdown between the former camp-mates for the title?

In Evans’ eyes, perhaps it starts with a lie. Prior to receiving a title shot against Mauricio “Shogun” Rua, Jones had stated that he did not want to fight his training partner. This drew criticism from some fans and from inside the UFC, who naturally want to make the most favourable match-ups possible to attract more people to their events.

Yet it wasn’t just Jones who had originally baulked at the prospect: according to Evans’ manager Malki Kawa, there was a likelihood of Rashad moving to Middleweight or Heavyweight rather than face Jones for the title, should he win at UFC 128.

And in the build-up to the fight, Jones did his best to deflect questions about a possible fight with Evans if he were successful in winning the title, but admitted that if the UFC wanted the fight to go ahead that badly, then both men would have to consider it, a stance that Rashad was apparently in agreement with.

But somehow, when it came down to being asked if he still wanted the shot, Evans was agreeable, and since the match was announced has started flinging mud around the arena to try and put the heat on Jones and Jackson for agreeing to the fight.

In the post-match interview with Joe Rogan, Jones was visibly less happy about the prospect of facing Rashad, almost to the point where he looked as though someone had spoiled his party when Rogan told him that Evans would be his next opponent. Meanwhile Evans looked smug and defiant and justified his decision to be the next man to face “Bones”, saying that you “should never say never. He’s got that strap, and I’ve got to go after it.”

Yet Evans has complained that he was always against Greg Jackson bringing Jones into the camp, and that he feels as though he has been sold out. But what was Jackson supposed to do? Turn down the opportunity to train with one of the sport’s future stars to appease the ego of the former champ? And according to Jones, Jackson had made sure that his top guys had no problem with Jones joining the camp.

Having seen the match made, Jackson was happy to make it clear that he didn’t intend to play favourites, and would not coach either man in the build up to their clash, but Evans has seen fit to break away from the Jackson camp, claiming that his trust has been broken.

Evans is also moaning that Jones has agreed to the fight, but surely this isn’t within the current champion’s province? If Jones were to turn down Evans as an opponent, Dana White and the UFC would have every justification to strip him of the title. In this situation, surely it has to be Rashad’s call not to take up the option to challenge the title-holder for the belt when he was asked by the UFC, rather than something that Jones had control over.

So why is Evans making such a fuss? Surely he didn’t expect Jones to simply reject the match and potentially forfeit the title? Or is his ego that big that it would demand the younger man be subservient to him?

s he afraid of Jones? It’s certainly starting to look like it with all his complaints about having to take the match.

As it happens, Evans doesn’t have to take the match—he could bide his time until Jones is no longer the champion, or, as previously suggested, shift to another division, if he is so adamant that he didn’t want this fight to take place.

Jones does have to take the match. As champion he has to face the top guys to prove his worth and to prove that he is a worthy man to hold the title. We can’t have the Champ cherry picking who he is prepared to defend the title against.

So all these complaints by Rashad—what do they add up to? It’s clear that he didn’t want the fight made, yet he accepted it to have a chance at the Light-Heavyweight title, so perhaps the hypocrisy is just another part of the normal pre-fight mid games.

Or, just perhaps, “Suga” Rashad Evans is running scared of Jon Jones.

[StillUnknown]

Evans is also moaning that Jones has agreed to the fight, but surely this isn’t within the current champion’s province? If Jones were to turn down Evans as an opponent, Dana White and the UFC would have every justification to strip him of the title. In this situation, surely it has to be Rashad’s call not to take up the option to challenge the title-holder for the belt when he was asked by the UFC, rather than something that Jones had control over.

that would never happen

I don't think Rashad is scared to fight Jones at all. Still won't stop him from getting a thorough ass whuppin though

[#98QBKiller]

I have a feeling we're going to see Rashad the Zombie part II.

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

Jon Jones is on the Antonio Silva show tonight

[StillUnknown]

Jon Jones is on the Antonio Silva show tonight

somewhere Conan is smiling:

[Sebowski]

Can't believe you guys are turning your backs on our boy Nick Diaz. He is going to school Paul "One Trick Pony" Daley.

[Chachie]

Can't believe you guys are turning your backs on our boy Nick Diaz. He is going to school Paul "One Trick Pony" Daley.

That's the spirit, Bowsk! Diaz fans unite!

(I'm scared though.)

[#98QBKiller]

Can't believe you guys are turning your backs on our boy Nick Diaz. He is going to school Paul "One Trick Pony" Daley.

I'm still pulling for him but I don't have faith in his takedowns. If he gets Daley down it's over. And he has the technique to stand with him he just has to avoid the power punches.