Anything MMA, except thumb wrestling

[NoCalMike]

I am not saying this is Zuffa's fault. What I am saying is that Zuffa's explanation of events is not always what it appears to be. I still place the blame on the situation on Nick Diaz. No doubt he should have done what he was obligated to do, however I think calling off the fight might have been a little pre-mature. It's pretty clear that Diaz didn't try to "back out of the fight" or anything like that.

Diaz is claiming there was a communication breakdown, it doesn't resolve him of being at fault, but it does change things about Zuffa claiming Diaz just approached the press conference with a "I don't give a F" attitude, which seems to not be true. Or the "Diaz lied to my face" accusation.

Either way, the fans lose because this is the fight people wanted to see.

Of course the positive is that out of 1 great fight going away, we now get 2 great fights, although I think GSP is just playing more clever games with the "Condit is a tougher fight for me" stuff. When has GSP ever said a fight will not be tough or how a current opponent is the best at "so and so"

[Samuels]

I think Diaz is going to beat Penn anyway, which should set up the match with GSP again.

Where is he gonna beat him at seriously?

He won't sub or control BJ, his wrestling is'nt that great. BJ took Fitch down so he can take Nick down if he wanted to and both have great BJJ.

But this fight will never see the mat Nick will stand and bang with BJ. Penn has a granite chin i've never seen him get dropped or hurt standing and we've seen Diaz dropped in multiple fights he was damn lucky to get outta the Daley fight. I honestly think BJ finishes him his boxing is much tighter and compact lots of jabs etc. All Nick does is loop punches and will get ate up right down the middle.

[Sebowski]

Where is he gonna beat him at seriously?

He won't sub or control BJ, his wrestling is'nt that great. BJ took Fitch down so he can take Nick down if he wanted to and both have great BJJ.

But this fight will never see the mat Nick will stand and bang with BJ. Penn has a granite chin i've never seen him get dropped or hurt standing and we've seen Diaz dropped in multiple fights he was damn lucky to get outta the Daley fight. I honestly think BJ finishes him his boxing is much tighter and compact lots of jabs etc. All Nick does is loop punches and will get ate up right down the middle.

I think Diaz can win the fight the basically the same way Edgar won their first fight; turn it into a boxing match and out-point Penn.

[Samuels]

I think Diaz can win the fight the basically the same way Edgar won their first fight; turn it into a boxing match and out-point Penn.

The big difference is Frankie was a waterbug running around he was very slippery, lots of head movement, level changes, great angles and footwork. Frankie was in and out before BJ could get off.

Now we all know Nick is nowhere near as slippery or crisp as Frankie. Edgar did'nt wanna stay in the pocket with BJ.

Nick will stand in front of him and bang the whole fight. BJ keeps everything straight down the middle while Nick gets wild throwing looping punches at a high rate. He is the perfect striker for BJ to fight. BJ will counter his wreckless striking all day long straight down the pipe. I think BJ drops him then finishes him with rabbid punches before he can recover. Nick has surprised me before but I don't give him much chance in this fight.

BJ is one of my favorites and I wish he would just stay at 155lbs. If he woulda went at Frankie the way he did Fitch in round 1 getting the takedown and near sub I think he can beat him. I'd take BJ againest every other LW in the world.

I think BJ and Gilbert Melendez at 155 coulda been a explosive fight i'd have payed to see.

[#98QBKiller]

Where is he gonna beat him at seriously?

He won't sub or control BJ, his wrestling is'nt that great. BJ took Fitch down so he can take Nick down if he wanted to and both have great BJJ.

But this fight will never see the mat Nick will stand and bang with BJ. Penn has a granite chin i've never seen him get dropped or hurt standing and we've seen Diaz dropped in multiple fights he was damn lucky to get outta the Daley fight. I honestly think BJ finishes him his boxing is much tighter and compact lots of jabs etc. All Nick does is loop punches and will get ate up right down the middle.

Nick has cardio for days, I think he's going to stand and bang with BJ and tire him down and either out-point him or finish him in the 3rd. BJ is a very good boxer but so is Diaz and I don't think BJ is going to get inside his reach early on. If BJ wants to take him down, then so be it, I don't think he can tap Diaz on the ground either.

If BJ wins it will be because he scores a takedown and lays on Diaz for a decision.

This fight should be 5 rounds IMO.

[NoCalMike]

Does anyone know the reach difference? The thing with Penn is over the last few years you can never tell which Penn is coming to fight anymore. Sometimes he looks motivated and ready to do battle, other times it looks like he is just going through the motions and settling for whatever happens.

Penn is one of my favs of all time, and I am also a huge fan of Diaz's fights. I'll be rooting for Diaz here because I really want to see him get a shot at the 170lb title before he goes and does something that gets him kicked out of the UFC. He brings the type of fight I want to see GSP forced into.

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

If the fight were 5 rounds, I'd give Nick more of a shot. If it were 10 rounds, I'd put money on Diaz.

Penn might slow down if there's a 3rd round of this fight, but I expect him to be too fast and too sharp in the first couple of rounds. Tagging Diaz flush, perhaps dropping him, in and out of the pocket before those wide counter shots from Diaz find their targets.

The idea that Penn might take it to Diaz' wrestling weakness is plausible. He could be drilling several combinations of strikes with immediate follow-up takedowns. A ground battle between these two would be a treat, but it's BJ's choice if it goes there, and I don't think he'll need to. I think Penn could drop Diaz and finish with strikes early, but I'll probably pick him to win by decision.

Penn has a granite chin i've never seen him get dropped or hurt standing

BJ was rattled in the first Pulver fight, I haven't been able to find that fight online, but I remember BJ getting blasted at least once in the last round. Still has a very good chin. That said, Penn's weakness in the technical aspect of striking seems to be people who are quicker than he is (Pulver was at that point in the fight). "Quick" isn't exactly a word I'd use to describe Diaz' striking.

Edited September 16, 2011 by d0ublestr0ker0ll

[RANSKINS98]

the velasquez and santos fight is live and free on fox right?

[StillUnknown]

the velasquez and santos fight is live and free on fox right?

Yep, November 12th.

[RANSKINS98]

Yep, November 12th.

I can wait for that velasquez is my dude, Im looking foward to the rampage and bones fight I think Johnny will wreck him but I like Rampage though

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

Last TUF on Spike starts Wed Sept, 21st. It's needed revamping, live TUF fights on FX next year sounds like a great idea. Mayhem actually seems like a great guy to train with.

xf6SFti_G5w

Edited September 16, 2011 by d0ublestr0ker0ll

[Sebowski]

BJ is one of my favorites and I wish he would just stay at 155lbs. If he woulda went at Frankie the way he did Fitch in round 1 getting the takedown and near sub I think he can beat him. I'd take BJ againest every other LW in the world.

.

Pretty sure I've typed that myself word for word a few times here and on other forums. Agree 100%.

I think you are underestimating Diaz's boxing. He may not zip in and out like Frankie, but he can still out point BJ boxing. BJ needs to make this an MMA fight. Mix in a bunch of kicks, knees, clinch, takedowns. Stay active.

I have no idea who I am rooting for. I really, really, want to see Diaz-GSP, and Penn-Condit. Even Condit-Diaz down the line would be great. I don't want to see another Penn-GSP fight though. It would be better if the Condit-GSP fight was first. Then I would know who to root for to get the right matchups.

[Samuels]

Pretty sure I've typed that myself word for word a few times here and on other forums. Agree 100%.

I think you are underestimating Diaz's boxing. He may not zip in and out like Frankie, but he can still out point BJ boxing. BJ needs to make this an MMA fight. Mix in a bunch of kicks, knees, clinch, takedowns. Stay active.

I have no idea who I am rooting for. I really, really, want to see Diaz-GSP, and Penn-Condit. Even Condit-Diaz down the line would be great. I don't want to see another Penn-GSP fight though. It would be better if the Condit-GSP fight was first. Then I would know who to root for to get the right matchups.

I honestly think BJ is a much better boxer everything tight and straight down the middle. Nick for all his boxing hype is wild and erratic but is very active in my opinion he has no chance of hurting BJ with that pitter patter. And Nick will actually lead letting BJ counter. If he talks a bunch of thrash to BJ during the fight like he normally does the taunting and crap I think he is gonna awaken a beast. We might have a glove getting licked.

Edited September 17, 2011 by Samuels

[NoCalMike]

Also when people say "wrestling weakness" they really need to clarify and say "takedown defense" There is a lot more to wrestling than simply getting a takedown. It seems UFC fans are being accustomed to calling someone a great wrestler based off takedowns alone. You can get takedowns several times, but a true dominant wrestler is someone who takes down their opponent and then controls them on the ground, constantly dictating the terms of the fight.

Diaz may be vunerable to being taken down, no one will dispute that, however it's what happens once the fight hits the ground where Diaz usually shines. He is a true BJJ whiz kid, he can submit people off his back. I don't think it is a stretch to say that he is pretty comfortable off his back.

Also, re: Diaz's "pitter patter" Don't forget these guys aren't wearing boxing gloves. The first 3-4 pitter patters may merely be a nuisance, but eventually your face begins to get bruised, puffed out, and cut due to the volume of punches hitting you.

I think this fight is going to be interesting because it is two fighters that are sort of mirror images of each other's skill sets, with small differences thrown in there in different ways.

Edited September 17, 2011 by NoCalMike

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

Also when people say "wrestling weakness" they really need to clarify and say "takedown defense" There is a lot more to wrestling than simply getting a takedown. It seems UFC fans are being accustomed to calling someone a great wrestler based off takedowns alone. You can get takedowns several times, but a true dominant wrestler is someone who takes down their opponent and then controls them on the ground, constantly dictating the terms of the fight.

Diaz may be vunerable to being taken down, no one will dispute that, however it's what happens once the fight hits the ground where Diaz usually shines. He is a true BJJ whiz kid, he can submit people off his back. I don't think it is a stretch to say that he is pretty comfortable off his back.

What is wrong in generalizing that Nick Diaz has weak wrestling? You say that we should specify that he has weak takedown defense, but then in the same paragraph, divert in to explaining what it means to be a great MMA wrestler. Let's get back to Nick, and explain why I need to be specific about his wrestling skillset. I believe all his wrestling skills are relatively weak.

Diaz hasn't shown much of anything in any facet of wrestling - takedowns, takedown defense, dominant position control, reversals, escapes, anything. I can see BJ Penn, who is 170 lbs soaking wet, getting the better of Nick in all areas of wrestling. Especially now that he's BFF's with Hughes.

If it is to hit the ground, there will probably be a tad more Brazilian Jiu Jitsu on display than wrestling. BJ Penn is up there in the BJJ "Whiz Kid" realm, as well.

Edited September 17, 2011 by d0ublestr0ker0ll

[#98QBKiller]

Especially now that he's BFF's with Hughes.

Couldn't resist

[Chachie]

Watching the new UFC event on Spike right now. Belcher is putting some GnP on Jason McDonald.

Edited September 18, 2011 by Chachie

[Chachie]

Wow. Jake Shields got KTFOed in rd 1.

[Destino]

Ellenberger just put himself into the championship picture. Look for his next fight to be against a contender. I don't know if shields was hurt or looking past him but he just got destroyed.

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

Jake's dad did just pass away, and they were very close. That easily could have effected his training camp. If I were in that same situation, I don't know if I could even hold it together in the cage, let alone fight my at my best.

Ellenberger won Knockout of the Night...Sub of the night was sick, TJ Waldburger:

Edited September 18, 2011 by d0ublestr0ker0ll

[Chachie]

Jake's dad did just pass away, and they were very close. That easily could have effected his training camp. If I were in that same situation, I don't know if I could even hold it together in the cage, let alone fight my at my best.

Shields was absolutely "sleepfighting" last night. He looked like a deer in the headlights in his hype interviews, in his walk-in, while his name was being announced, and during the ref's instructions. No way he should have been in there. Ellenberger was tossing him around from the moment they engaged. Shields was lamely groping. I have never seen him like that. I'm not trying to take away from Ellenberger's dynamic TKO because it was amazing... but he did not fight the real Jake Shields last night. That guy is still in shock and mourning, no question.

[#98QBKiller]

Shields was absolutely "sleepfighting" last night. He looked like a deer in the headlights in his hype interviews, in his walk-in, while his name was being announced, and during the ref's instructions. No way he should have been in there. Ellenberger was tossing him around from the moment they engaged. Shields was lamely groping. I have never seen him like that. I'm not trying to take away from Ellenberger's dynamic TKO because it was amazing... but he did not fight the real Jake Shields last night. That guy is still in shock and mourning, no question.

I agree. And I feel really bad for him. Hopefully the UFC cuts him some slack on this one.

[StillUnknown]

I guess now we have to see GSP lay on Ellenberger for 5 rounds before Dana will make the superfight between him & Anderson.

[Hdf561]

Shields was absolutely "sleepfighting" last night. He looked like a deer in the headlights in his hype interviews, in his walk-in, while his name was being announced, and during the ref's instructions. No way he should have been in there. Ellenberger was tossing him around from the moment they engaged. Shields was lamely groping. I have never seen him like that. I'm not trying to take away from Ellenberger's dynamic TKO because it was amazing... but he did not fight the real Jake Shields last night. That guy is still in shock and mourning, no question.

While I do think Jakes dad passing away affected him, I do not think thats the whole story.

The guy's striking is horrid, which may be fine in Strikeforce, or KOTC but in the UFC one dimensional guys get chewed up, it eventually happens to all of them. Jake is a super grappler but against a guy like Ellenberger who has a stellar wrestling resume he had to know tkaing this fight to the ground was gonna be tough. Plus Jake Ellenberger is a super strong guy at 170 and he was looking to throw bombs from the outset.

Bottom line is this is a super step up in competition, and with the loss of his Dad there was no way he was going to win this fight. It took Carlos Condit (who many thought was the next GSP when he was running rough shot over the WEC) a few fights to figure it out, and it even took a camp change. Jake is smart, he wont be cut, but he has to get out of that Jiujitsu gym (Cesar Gracies) and get to a gym that has more well rounded fighters to spar with and he needs to work on his striking only for 6 months straight in order to get it better. Perhaps goign to train with Duke Rufus (he could help bring the grappling level up there for Guys like Mitrione, Barry, and Pettis) or full time at the Pit letting Liddel or Hackleman work him solely in striking.

[#98QBKiller]

I guess now we have to see GSP lay on Ellenberger for 5 rounds before Dana will make the superfight between him & Anderson.

IDK, I'm thinking after Diaz beats Penn, he'll get the next title shot.