Anything MMA, except thumb wrestling

[d0ublestr0ker0ll]

UFC 85 was depressing in almost every aspect.

First of all, yesterday I watched it on around my 30th straight hour of being awake. I wasn't drugged or liquored up, either. Also, Big Brown laid a big turd right after the fights. Depressing.

Fabricio Werdum looked really good. He impressed me to the point where I think Big Nog would have problems with him. He matches up really well with both Nog and Mir. I'm surprised Vera got taken down so easily. He could have probably willed his way to a standup win if it weren't for getting owned with a couple takedowns. The stoppage was premature and Dan Mergliotta (sp) needs to be suspended. The problem is, his recent string of screw-ups happened in two different organizations and two different places. So they can't take those in to consideration. Maybe the Referees' Union should hand him a month'er.

Nate Marquardt looked good and had a new sense of confidence yesterday. I mean just listen to him after the fight. "I still think I'm the best in the world". We know that's not true, but it's good to see he still wants to get after it. He did a piledriver (which is illegal) while screaming with his mouth wide open? That was the highlight of the day. He lost 2 points yesterday for illegal blows and could have lost a 3rd for that piledriver, but all things considered, he shouldn't drop that far from this loss. Leites looked overwhelmed by Nate's wrestling and had no answer in the standup. People will point to Herbert "The Dean of unseen" and say he's the reason Nate lost. But take a point away for the head-first slam and give a point back for the legal elbow. It all equals out. Nate has to be aware of the rules.

Marcus Davis got dominated in the grappling game, and it made him lose any spark in the standup. Swick has a very good grappling game on the feet and especially on the ground. Davis has made great progress in that department, but it just goes to show you how good Swick is down there. I'd love to see him fight Mayhem, they remind me of each other. As for Davis, he could move to lightweight, but the cut would hurt his power and the grapplers down there are insane. He may have just been due to lose, but he didn't look confident yesterday. I don't think at 34, he will ever have a chance in welterweight. Fitch, Swick and GSP will all slice his blood-spewing face up before he can ever tag their jaws. He might have to take the cut, and not be at such a reach disadvantage in lightweight where he could have more of that puncher's chance.

Bisping looked great again. But christ, can they stop molding their overseas icon and throw him a real fighter? I know Leben got hurt, and that was a good matchup, but make that fight happen - or give him Okami. Jason Day got owned almost as much as Charles McCarthy, so it is promising, and I AM one of those ever-popular Bisping fans. He brings the heat and makes fights entertaining. I will be so pumped when he's matched up with a top 5'er. Bisping/Franklin would be absolutely insane.

Matt Hughes is done. It's sad, really, because he isn't old. 34 and "done" makes ya feel a little sick to your stomach, especially since it's Matt Hughes. When Matt came out to that slow country song yesterday, it made me sit there and think, "wow, this guy is a legend." I hate country music, but that song quieted everybody down in the arena and made me get shivers. That is one proud, honorable American who dropped more people on their backs than Deacon Jones. Thiago did what he was supposed to do, and he did it without throwing any of those patented leg kicks. I see him being able to present some threats to GSP. He has big power in those legs, and outwrassled Matt Hughes. He didn't throw Hughes around the way GSP did (like a pillow in a pillow fight), but he was on one ankle and G&P'd him with authority. He should be 2 fights away from getting a shot, at the absolute minimum. I know he saved the already-broken main event by showing up, but 4 lbs overweight because of an ankle is not an excuse. Ever heard of green beans, saunas, and ex-lax? The drugs in his system should cost him, too. Give him Diego.

[Chachie]

UFC 85 was depressing in almost every aspect.

First of all, yesterday I watched it on around my 30th straight hour of being awake. I wasn't drugged or liquored up, either. Also, Big Brown laid a big turd right after the fights. Depressing.

Fabricio Werdum looked really good. He impressed me to the point where I think Big Nog would have problems with him. He matches up really well with both Nog and Mir. I'm surprised Vera got taken down so easily. He could have probably willed his way to a standup win if it weren't for getting owned with a couple takedowns. The stoppage was premature and Dan Mergliotta (sp) needs to be suspended. The problem is, his recent string of screw-ups happened in two different organizations and two different places. So they can't take those in to consideration. Maybe the Referees' Union should hand him a month'er.

Nate Marquardt looked good and had a new sense of confidence yesterday. I mean just listen to him after the fight. "I still think I'm the best in the world". We know that's not true, but it's good to see he still wants to get after it. He did a piledriver (which is illegal) while screaming with his mouth wide open? That was the highlight of the day. He lost 2 points yesterday for illegal blows and could have lost a 3rd for that piledriver, but all things considered, he shouldn't drop that far from this loss. Leites looked overwhelmed by Nate's wrestling and had no answer in the standup. People will point to Herbert "The Dean of unseen" and say he's the reason Nate lost. But take a point away for the head-first slam and give a point back for the legal elbow. It all equals out. Nate has to be aware of the rules.

Marcus Davis got dominated in the grappling game, and it made him lose any spark in the standup. Swick has a very good grappling game on the feet and especially on the ground. Davis has made great progress in that department, but it just goes to show you how good Swick is down there. I'd love to see him fight Mayhem, they remind me of each other. As for Davis, he could move to lightweight, but the cut would hurt his power and the grapplers down there are insane. He may have just been due to lose, but he didn't look confident yesterday. I don't think at 34, he will ever have a chance in welterweight. Fitch, Swick and GSP will all slice his blood-spewing face up before he can ever tag their jaws. He might have to take the cut, and not be at such a reach disadvantage in lightweight where he could have more of that puncher's chance.

Bisping looked great again. But christ, can they stop molding their overseas icon and throw him a real fighter? I know Leben got hurt, and that was a good matchup, but make that fight happen - or give him Okami. Jason Day got owned almost as much as Charles McCarthy, so it is promising, and I AM one of those ever-popular Bisping fans. He brings the heat and makes fights entertaining. I will be so pumped when he's matched up with a top 5'er. Bisping/Franklin would be absolutely insane.

Matt Hughes is done. It's sad, really, because he isn't old. 34 and "done" makes ya feel a little sick to your stomach, especially since it's Matt Hughes. When Matt came out to that slow country song yesterday, it made me sit there and think, "wow, this guy is a legend." I hate country music, but that song quieted everybody down in the arena and made me get shivers. That is one proud, honorable American...that dropped more people on their backs than Deacon Jones. Thiago did what he was supposed to do, and he did it without throwing any of those pattanted leg kicks. I see him being able to present some threats to GSP. He has big power in those legs, and outwrassled Matt Hughes. He didn't throw Hughes around the way GSP did (like a pillow in a pillow fight), but he was on one ankle and G&P'd him with authority. He should be 2 fights away from getting a shot, at the absolute minimum. I know he saved the already-broken main event by showing up, but 4 lbs overweight because of an ankle is not an excuse. Ever heard of green beans, saunas, and ex-lax? The drugs in his system should cost him, too. Give him Diego.

Thanks for the analysis, as I did not watch the fights. I agree with everything you touched upon. (Except for your spelling of the word "patented.")

[StillUnknown]

Leben wasn't hurt, he was in jail for a past charge, everything else you said was just about right.

[StillUnknown]

Matt Wiman & Thiago Tavares got Fight of the Night Bonuses

Thiago Alves got Knockout of the Night Bonus

Kevin Burns (a brazilian jiu-jitsu blue belt) got Submission of the Night bonus for subbing Roan Carneiro (a brazilian jiu jitsu black belt).

Carneiro has to be feeling like **** today for being subbed by a blue-belt who took the fight on short notice

[Chachie]

Carneiro has to be feeling like **** today for being subbed by a blue-belt who took the fight on short notice

Isn't it funny how those guys tend to beat the favorite when they step in at the last minute like that? If I were an up-and-comer and my opponent had to bow out, I think I'd bow out too.

[mvisit1]

Kevin Burns (a brazilian jiu-jitsu blue belt) got Submission of the Night bonus for subbing Roan Carneiro (a brazilian jiu jitsu black belt).

Carneiro has to be feeling like **** today for being subbed by a blue-belt who took the fight on short notice

The belts only matter in a pure BJJ "rolling" situation. Anything can happen when you're hitting each other in the face.

[#98QBKiller]

The belts only matter in a pure BJJ "rolling" situation. Anything can happen when you're hitting each other in the face.

Very true, same goes for boxers and having to defend against being taken down, it's the beauty of mixed martial arts.

[revallenjr]

I would assume that the posters on this particular thread are fans of MMA. I will be honest with you that I have never really watched many of the fights, but all the publicity that MMA has been getting, I was curious to know how many people felt that MMA should be an olympic sport. I know that it can be kind of brutal, and because of the beating a body takes, having mulitiple fights in a week might be tough, but boxing is an olympic sport. I am curious to know what MMA fans think, and maybe some obstacles that would have to be overcome. I am not familiar with all the top fighters and what countries they call home, but what Country do you think would win gold?Just some fun thoughts. Anxious to hear what you have to say.

[#98QBKiller]

I would assume that the posters on this particular thread are fans of MMA. I will be honest with you that I have never really watched many of the fights, but all the publicity that MMA has been getting, I was curious to know how many people felt that MMA should be an olympic sport. I know that it can be kind of brutal, and because of the beating a body takes, having mulitiple fights in a week might be tough, but boxing is an olympic sport. I am curious to know what MMA fans think, and maybe some obstacles that would have to be overcome. I am not familiar with all the top fighters and what countries they call home, but what Country do you think would win gold?Just some fun thoughts. Anxious to hear what you have to say.

I think it would be a good idea, but I don't know if the world is ready to allow it into the olympics just yet, it's making a lot of progress these days and is being accepted as a legitimate sport but I think it has a little while to go before we see it in the olympics. Boxing and wrestling are olympic sports and every mixed martial artist must train in those combat sports to be proficient. Also, judo is an olympic sport and there are several mixed martial artists who have a background in judo and incorporate it into their MMA game.

I think maybe first, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu would have to be accepted as an olympic sport before MMA would be considered as it's such a huge part of the sport. So is Muay Thai kickboxing which I couldn't ever see in the olympics due to its use of knees and elbows which makes me think that if MMA were allowed in the olympics that competitors would not be allowed to use knees and elbows to strike or would either have to wear pads on them.

That's just my :2cents: on the matter.

As far as the best countries, the top pound for pound fighters in the world right now are Brazilian, American, Russian, Canadian and Japanese.

And those are probably the countries that produce the largest number of great fighters, especially the US, Brazil and Japan.

[mvisit1]

MMA will never be accepted as a legitimate sport until it's athletes clean up their acts. With the antics of Chris Leben, the backyard brawling of Kimbo Slice, and the up and comers of The Ultimate Fighter getting drunk and tearing apart a nice house and sometimes fighting each other in the backyard EVERY season, the average American that is not already a fan of combat sports does not have a good impression of MMA.

[StillUnknown]

MMA will never be accepted as a legitimate sport until it's athletes clean up their acts. With the antics of Chris Leben, the backyard brawling of Kimbo Slice, and the up and comers of The Ultimate Fighter getting drunk and tearing apart a nice house and sometimes fighting each other in the backyard EVERY season, the average American that is not already a fan of combat sports does not have a good impression of MMA.

i disagree somewhat. no sport has picture perfect atheletes. For every Chris Leben & Kimbo Slice theres an Anderson Silva or GSP who represent the sport the way it should be.

Shayna Bazler said it best i think in a recent interview. to paraphrase she said nobody who liked MMA was turned off so much by EliteXC that they will never watch again, and some people who did watch probably did like it and will stick around to watch again, meaning that MMA gained way more fans than they lost.

I think people, even mainstream sports writers & talking heads, have stressed that EliteXC was the minor leagues.

as far as the Ultimate Fighter, i honestly don't think casual fans watch that anymore, their ratings have declined almost every season since the 3rd season. i'm thinking only MMA fans watch that show to begin with now.

[StillUnknown]

stolen from The Stadium: http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2008/6/9/548574/congratulations-to-michael

michael westbrook won a bjj tournament in the purple belt division

[BigMike619]

what is so unliked about Leben?

[Slacky McSlackAss]

what is so unliked about Leben?

My problem with him is the guy is a complete *******. Hes also a complete dumbass if you ask me. As a fighter, he has all the tools to be a good one, but his attitude is just disgusting.

[StillUnknown]

he pissed on another man's pillow back on the show, thats why i don't like him lol

[lovetoaster]

he pissed on another man's pillow back on the show, thats why i don't like him lol

Come on, now who has not done that before? :paranoid:

[mvisit1]

i disagree somewhat. no sport has picture perfect atheletes. For every Chris Leben & Kimbo Slice theres an Anderson Silva or GSP who represent the sport the way it should be.

However, MMA is a special sport. Sure there is always someone making bad headlines that's in the NFL or MLB, but no one is questioning whether or not football and baseball are legitimate sports.

To the untrained eye, MMA looks just like an all out brawl. They don't know how much technique is involved in boxing, kickboxing, judo, wrestling, submission grappling, and brazilian jiu-jitsu.

I was hoping that EliteXC, the first live demonstration of MMA on network television would showcase some great technical exchanges of these disciplines, but I was disappointed overall. The big name in the main event has only been training MMA for 1 year!

Carano's fight was probably the best fight of the night. That title fight would have been the best one, if not for the BS eye poke stoppage. Also, by MMA rules Kimbo was no longer "intelligently defending himself" against the cage in round 2 and the fight should have been stopped as he recieved elbow after elbow to the head without blocking, no matter how soft the elbows looked.

Some people are saying that still having that incident fresh in his mind, that same ref (Dan Miragliotta) having recieved much criticism for that non-stoppage, that is why he prematurely ended the Vera fight.

Yes, Vera was mounted, but he was covering up, moving around, and hadn't been rocked by any real shots and that he would have survived the final 15 or so seconds til the end of the 1st round. We should have seen round 2.

[StillUnknown]

Vera said he thought he won that first round, he may have been more hurt than we realized. lol

[stoshuaj]

so you didn't like the EliteXC "production"?..........guess what :laugh:

A story came out that Vince McMahon...yes THAT Vince McMahon, is interested in buying the UFC off of the Fertita Brothers. Dana White seems to be involved as well as a possible part owner. The WWE has been in a ratings death spiral and the UFC is getting record ratings with their Spike show and Pay Per Views.

[#98QBKiller]

so you didn't like the EliteXC "production"?..........guess what :laugh:

A story came out that Vince McMahon...yes THAT Vince McMahon, is interested in buying the UFC off of the Fertita Brothers. Dana White seems to be involved as well as a possible part owner. The WWE has been in a ratings death spiral and the UFC is getting record ratings with their Spike show and Pay Per Views.

That rumor has been circulating forever, I doubt there's any substance to it. Why would Zuffa sell such a successful business and ruin the reputation of MMA at the hands of Vince McMahon? It doesn't make sense.

[lovetoaster]

That rumor has been circulating forever, I doubt there's any substance to it. Why would Zuffa sell such a successful business and ruin the reputation of MMA at the hands of Vince McMahon? It doesn't make sense.

Yeah, it has been kicking around for a while and I pray that it never happens. Vince has been a great business man, no doubt about it. But, like you say, it would seriously tarnish the reputation of MMA. I think Zuffa cares too much about the UFC and the sport in general to ever allow this to happen.

[herrmag]

C'mon guys. You think Zuffa can't be bought? You think the Fertitas have that much morality that they'd refuse the right offer from Vince McMahon? I mean, I know they come from such an upstanding family and all...... :laugh:

[lovetoaster]

C'mon guys. You think Zuffa can't be bought? You think the Fertitas have that much morality that they'd refuse the right offer from Vince McMahon? I mean, I know they come from such an upstanding family and all...... :laugh:

Oh I am sure they can be bought, but I think they know that a situation such as this would bring a lot of attention to the UFC, and not necessarily in a positive way. I think more about Dana than the Fertitas. With Dana being with the sport since its lean years, I don't think he would let it get cheapened (for lack of a better word) by getting Vince involved.

Also, with the way that Dana talks about people now, can you imagine him trying to work with Vince and some of the things he would probably say about him? I don't think that situation would last very long.

[herrmag]

Oh I am sure they can be bought, but I think they know that a situation such as this would bring a lot of attention to the UFC, and not necessarily in a positive way. I think more about Dana than the Fertitas. With Dana being with the sport since its lean years, I don't think he would let it get cheapened (for lack of a better word) by getting Vince involved.

Also, with the way that Dana talks about people now, can you imagine him trying to work with Vince and some of the things he would probably say about him? I don't think that situation would last very long.

Meh, for the right price, I don't think any of them would give a crap, including Dana, particularly if he was given some kind of partial ownership. Vinny Mac certainly doesn't add legitimacy to the sport, but he is a legitimate businessman.

[SkinsOrlando]

They're not going to sell now, too early, they'll wait till it garners more mainstream attention.