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The Figure Four - ALL Things ECW-WWF-NJPW-TNA-ROH-AEW

TK

By TK
in The Tailgate

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RammsteinSkins

RammsteinSkins

Posted
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Any chance you could paste that here? My works firewall blocks it. Thanks
- WWE and TNA will face head to head on December 14th when both promotions PPV's air live. WWE moved Armageddon PPV from December 21st to December 14, which is the same day TNA planned to air Turning Point PPV.

- Vince Russo and Sting do not agree on his character's future. Russo would like Sting to turn heel but he disagrees with that move during this point of his career. The plan for his heel turn is to have him feud with AJ Styles and Samoa Joe.

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moviedude25

moviedude25

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They didn't blow last night like I was expecting. That was a nice surprise.

I still think the WWE is hurting for real "Factions" to war with each other across all brands.

My biggest beef with Raw right now is that I feel as if CM Punk's getting the Chris Jericho treatment and it pisses me off. Having Punk defend the title week after week in the middle of the card and not be the main event? Are we back in 1982 when the main events were halfway through the show? CM Punks title reign is a joke and it should be treated better. He deserves to carry the company for the rest of the year but I suspect that with JBL being in Fortune magazine and bringing more spotlight to WWE that he wins the title at SummerSlam.

My beef with Smackdown is the way they are constantly pushing The Undertaker. I like the Undertaker but why is he headlining another SummerSlam? He's been main eventing in WWFE since 1991, 18 freaking years. I am going to enjoy seeing the hell in a cell but I'm tired of seeing other guys be held down and not given the shot.

My beef with the WWE overalls not changed one bit since 1998, they do not have the roster to properly run two brands. I've been saying this since Smackdown came out and I believe this is why the WWF went so far downhill and angles like the invasion were failures. The WWE is thinking too short term and not enough about the business and should have one show and ditch Smackdown.

I know I'm ****ing but I'm enjoying the last several months of TV they put out so don't think I'm not a fan :D

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moviedude25

moviedude25

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Thanks

- WWE and TNA will face head to head on December 14th when both promotions PPV's air live. WWE moved Armageddon PPV from December 21st to December 14, which is the same day TNA planned to air Turning Point PPV.

Shrewed business move but really whats the point? Its not like TNA is a big time competitor with WWE. Last I heard they were giving away tickets to there ppv's and sales were in the toilet. Vince isn't going to hurt them that bad by doing this but in fact because he did this fans of both products are getting screwed. That sucks

- Vince Russo and Sting do not agree on his character's future. Russo would like Sting to turn heel but he disagrees with that move during this point of his career. The plan for his heel turn is to have him feud with AJ Styles and Samoa Joe.

Sting heel? Russo's had some stupid ideas in the past (David Arquette, giving himself the world title, him shooting on Hogan, the mock of JR, etc) but thats a new one. He's probably trying to pull a Hogan shock turn for the pop it would get but Stings not gonna do that and the secrets ruined by it getting out already. Stings had some alright matches with AJ and Joe in the past and I think that fans today aren't going to care if one guys the heel or the face. Russo needs new material

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ACW

ACW

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Geeze there were quite a number of firings today. All from lordsofpain.net

-Domino

-Nunzio

-Shannon Moore

-James Curtis

-Chris "Braden Walker" Harris (should've stayed w/ TNA)

-Big Daddy V (can Mark Henry join him?)

-Ref. Nick Patrick

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RammsteinSkins

RammsteinSkins

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Sting heel? Russo's had some stupid ideas in the past (David Arquette, giving himself the world title, him shooting on Hogan, the mock of JR, etc) but thats a new one. He's probably trying to pull a Hogan shock turn for the pop it would get but Stings not gonna do that and the secrets ruined by it getting out already. Stings had some alright matches with AJ and Joe in the past and I think that fans today aren't going to care if one guys the heel or the face. Russo needs new material
Yeah,but Russo was also the reason WWF became a national icon from 97-02.The whole Stone Cold vs McMahon is still one of the best rivalries of all-time to this day.
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moviedude25

moviedude25

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Yeah,but Russo was also the reason WWF became a national icon from 97-02.The whole Stone Cold vs McMahon is still one of the best rivalries of all-time to this day.

Yes Vince Russo was a part of the writing team in the late 90's with the WWF. Yes he was in McMahons ear and got him to fully get behind the attitude era and they did some great things together. Russo from 1997 to 1999 was the head booker on Raw and got them out from behind WCW and won the MNWs. However even then Russo did some stupid things back then like put Owen in the Blue Blazer outfit which killed him, his dumb angle with Mark Henry and the transvestite, the racist angle with the Nation and the Hart Foundation, and the dumb angle with Mosh from the Headbangers where he beat up his ex girlfriend Beaver Cleavage. Not everything Russo did was good and he can't take credit for all of it.

Russo was handed the job of head booker and in 1996 it was clear to anyone the direction that the wrestling world wanted to go in. Since 1993, ECW had been making waves pushing the envelop and people were noticing. Even McMahon allowed ECW to come on there show to guage a reaction from the fans which is pretty much unheard of. The fans said get more edgy, push the envelop, show us more T&A, increase the blood and violence, and McMahon listened. The path was laid for success and the attitude era was built. This had nothing to do with Vince Russo and I feel people give him credit for it when its not deserved. What Vince McMahon did was start the attitude era, and then give the ball to Russo and said "tap into that". The attitude era wasn't Russo's creation.

The WWF in 1997 had one of the most stacked lineups ever in the history of this business. Mick Foley, Shawn Michaels, The Undertaker, Bret Hart, Triple H, Steve Austin, and Kane where all red hot and with a talent pool like that its actually hard to screw up. Russo created characters like the Rock but Russo didn't create Stone Cold Steve Austin like some credit him. And the other men who were main eventing at the time where already established stars. All Russo was then and now is a story teller. Yes he created the McMahon/Austin fued which is pretty basic of a concept (employee hates boss) which is why it worked so well. I agree its a hell of a story line and one of the best ever. And he did some good things with DX and the Nation of Domination, and others. But he had the best talent in the business and asked them what they wanted to do and listened and got the credit for it. When he went to the WCW and didn't have these players he failed miserably.

Russo also had his "crash TV" which as a wrestling fan of the last 25 years was absolutely horrible and what helped doom WCW. Russo in my mind helped WWF come back and win the MNW's but he also was the reason WCW went outta business and even today his booking is what in my opinion is holding TNA down. He's done more harm to this buisness then good. I count him having 3 good years (97-99 when he left WWF) and 10 bad (99-2000). You can not give credit to what happened in the WWF after Russo left in 99.

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RedskinsFan28

RedskinsFan28

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It's Hard Justice tonight for TNA. Quick results:

-Petey Williams retains X-Division Title over Consequences Creed

-Beer Money defeats LAX for TNA World Tag Team Titles

-Gail Kim, ODB, and Taylor Wilde defeat Awesome Kong, Angelina Love and Velvet Sky

-Jay Lethal defeats Sonjay Dutt

-Christian Cage and Rhino defeat Team 3D

-AJ Styles defeats Kurt Angle in a Last Man Standing match (very good match)

-Samoa Joe retains the TNA World Title over Booker T (possible tease over Jeff Jarrett's eventual return)

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Guest sith lord

Guest sith lord

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It's Hard Justice tonight for TNA. Quick results:

-Petey Williams retains X-Division Title over Consequences Creed

-Beer Money defeats LAX for TNA World Tag Team Titles

-Gail Kim, ODB, and Taylor Wilde defeat Awesome Kong, Angelina Love and Velvet Sky

-Jay Lethal defeats Sonjay Dutt

-Christian Cage and Rhino defeat Team 3D

-AJ Styles defeats Kurt Angle in a Last Man Standing match (very good match)

-Samoa Joe retains the TNA World Title over Booker T (possible tease over Jeff Jarrett's eventual return)

It was an OK PPV, defenantly not TNA's best. I thought the crowd was very tough though.

EDIT: Is Team 3-D the most overrated tagteam in history or what?

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Get Pissed

Get Pissed

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My vote is the New Age Outlaws as most overrated tag team. Yes they had funny moments, but man I thought they were stale. Roadd Dog was sic on the mic and only the mic and Rockabilly didn't possess 1/10th of the charisma they made him out to have..

How is Team 3D overrated? I honestly don't really watch TNA and haven't seen them for a while. They were meh to me. But I'd definitely love to hear what they do wrong

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Guest sith lord

Guest sith lord

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My vote is the New Age Outlaws as most overrated tag team. Yes they had funny moments, but man I thought they were stale. Roadd Dog was sic on the mic and only the mic and Rockabilly didn't possess 1/10th of the charisma they made him out to have..

How is Team 3D overrated? I honestly don't really watch TNA and haven't seen them for a while. They were meh to me. But I'd definitely love to hear what they do wrong

The New Age Outlaws were also overrated, but they're not looked on as one of the greatest tagteams of all time. The reason Team 3-D is more overrated is because they're considered by some as the greatest tagteam of all time. Just last night, Mike Tennay declared them as the most decorated tagteam in history. Yeah, they've held a lot of titles, but federations have been handing out titles like hotcakes since the late 90's and being a "World" champion today is not the same as it was when it was pro wrestling if you know what I mean.

IMO, they're not that much better than the average ECW original that can only perform in hardcore matches. They're presented as being better than the Road Warriors and they're not even close. Sure, the Warriors also had a roughhouse style, but they were much better at traditional matches. Team 3-D is all about throwing someone through a table.

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Get Pissed

Get Pissed

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Sith you make very valid points and I agree with you. That makes me want to vomit that Team 3D was even mentioned in the same sentence with the Road Warriors. In my opinion the Road Warriors and then the Steiner Brothers are the two greatest tag teams absolutely.

I mentioned the New Age Outlaws because for some reason I thought they had more title runs in WWF than they actually did. According to Wikipedia and the list of WWE World Tag Team Champions New Age Outlaws won it 5 times (I though it was something more obnoxious.) In fact, to validate your point, in WWE alone, The Dudley's held the tag titles and ridiculous 8 times. Heres the link below:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_Tag_Team_Champions_(WWE)

In my mind longevity gives a tag team- or anybody for that matter credibility in my mind. In defense of Team 3D they have incredible longevity. They debuted in 1997 So about 10 years. Definitely Solid. Plus according to their wikipedia page they have a combination of winning a major Tag Title (WWE, ECW, TNA) 20 times. Very too.

However, you are right- they only know how to use tables and other such weapons. Plus Team 3D consists of any combo of the three of them. This is lame, uncool and takes away from credibility in my book.

When compared to The Road Warriors it has only been them two (not counting managers or Droz who was with them for maybe a year). The one category- longevity, that Team 3D MIGHT (but not really) have over The Road Warriros, they do not. The Road Warriors debuted in 1982 and their last TV appearance was on RAW in 2003. Over 20 Damn years together!

Check out their Wikipedia page. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_Warriors

Furthermore, the 20 years isn't even their best accomplishment. I don't know the total of Tag Titles they have held since I don't know their history wrestling in Japan and all over the World, but check out their Pro Wrestling Illustrated Awards below:

PWI Tag Team of the year: 1982, 1984, 1985, 1988

PWI Feud of the year: 1987

PWI ranked them # 1 of the 100 best tag teams during the "PWI Years" in 2003.

The last award I really don't know what PWI Years means- but I'm assuming something along the lines of from the beginning of PWI (1976?) to 2003.

I have also read that The Road Warriors were voted Tag Team on the decade for 1980's

This is a long read I know and I don't think I really had to convince anyone here how out of The Road Warriors league Team 3D is.

Case closed! I just wanted to go on a rant and demote the Dudleys even more. Again, Case Closed

Edit: Upon looking at Team 3D's Wik page. They were involved in two PWI matches of the year- 2000, 2001. And were only voted once as Tag Team of the year in 2001. Give me a break. No Comparison

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Guest sith lord

Guest sith lord

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Sith you make very valid points and I agree with you. That makes me want to vomit that Team 3D was even mentioned in the same sentence with the Road Warriors. In my opinion the Road Warriors and then the Steiner Brothers are the two greatest tag teams absolutely.

I mentioned the New Age Outlaws because for some reason I thought they had more title runs in WWF than they actually did. According to Wikipedia and the list of WWE World Tag Team Champions New Age Outlaws won it 5 times (I though it was something more obnoxious.) In fact, to validate your point, in WWE alone, The Dudley's held the tag titles and ridiculous 8 times. Heres the link below:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_Tag_Team_Champions_(WWE)

In my mind longevity gives a tag team- or anybody for that matter credibility in my mind. In defense of Team 3D they have incredible longevity. They debuted in 1997 So about 10 years. Definitely Solid. Plus according to their wikipedia page they have a combination of winning a major Tag Title (WWE, ECW, TNA) 20 times. Very too.

However, you are right- they only know how to use tables and other such weapons. Plus Team 3D consists of any combo of the three of them. This is lame, uncool and takes away from credibility in my book.

When compared to The Road Warriors it has only been them two (not counting managers or Droz who was with them for maybe a year). The one category- longevity, that Team 3D MIGHT (but not really) have over The Road Warriros, they do not. The Road Warriors debuted in 1982 and their last TV appearance was on RAW in 2003. Over 20 Damn years together!

Check out their Wikipedia page. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_Warriors

Furthermore, the 20 years isn't even their best accomplishment. I don't know the total of Tag Titles they have held since I don't know their history wrestling in Japan and all over the World, but check out their Pro Wrestling Illustrated Awards below:

PWI Tag Team of the year: 1982, 1984, 1985, 1988

PWI Feud of the year: 1987

PWI ranked them # 1 of the 100 best tag teams during the "PWI Years" in 2003.

The last award I really don't know what PWI Years means- but I'm assuming something along the lines of from the beginning of PWI (1976?) to 2003.

I have also read that The Road Warriors were voted Tag Team on the decade for 1980's

This is a long read I know and I don't think I really had to convince anyone here how out of The Road Warriors league Team 3D is.

Case closed! I just wanted to go on a rant and demote the Dudleys even more. Again, Case Closed

Edit: Upon looking at Team 3D's Wik page. They were involved in two PWI matches of the year- 2000, 2001. And were only voted once as Tag Team of the year in 2001. Give me a break. No Comparison

That was a very good read. I can name a ton of teams that I would put over Team 3-D.

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Guest sith lord

Guest sith lord

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The Dudley's benefitted greatly from being in ECW. So they have a huge following from then.

They've been the same stale act for 10 years now.....

For the record, Demolition ruled all.

You were right on right up until you mentioned Demolition(poor man's Road Warriors)ruled all.

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RedskinNutt

RedskinNutt

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You were right on right up until you mentioned Demolition(poor man's Road Warriors)ruled all.

I agree with Sith...did a double take when I saw the Demos mentioned!

The accolades, the first team to wear the paint, the gimmick that was over for 20 years, all of it makes the Roadies the greatest of all time. The fact that they could be the most over team in a federation despite not holding the belts for long periods of time show that they were the ****!

My short list of the greatest tag teams of all time (post 1980):

Road Warriors

Steiners

British Bulldogs

Hart Foundation

Midnight Express (Lane and Eaton)

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Guest sith lord

Guest sith lord

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I agree with Sith...did a double take when I saw the Demos mentioned!

The accolades, the first team to wear the paint, the gimmick that was over for 20 years, all of it makes the Roadies the greatest of all time. The fact that they could be the most over team in a federation despite not holding the belts for long periods of time show that they were the ****!

My short list of the greatest tag teams of all time (post 1980):

Road Warriors

Steiners

British Bulldogs

Hart Foundation

Midnight Express (Lane and Eaton)

I like your list. To me Blanchard and Anderson was the absolute best I have ever seen. The Minesota wrecking crew of Ole and Arn Anderson was right up there too.

Another thing that made the Warriors so great is that they were one of the few teams that didn't need the titles to justify their greatness.

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