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The Figure Four - ALL Things ECW-WWF-NJPW-TNA-ROH-AEW

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I think Flair has become impossible to work with. He still wants to be a wrestler' date=' he's still a drunk with incredible personal problems, and you simply can never pay him enough to get him out of the financial mess he's in.

Theoretically, Flair should be the greatest manager or color guy in history. But you just know that six months into the job, he's going to pee on a stewardess.[/quote']

Well you were close lol: http://thebiglead.com/index.php/2012/06/26/ric-flair-allegedly-beat-up-by-wife-again/

Edited by MattFancy

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I wonder who they'll bring out next for the Raw Anniversary. It would be funny if they brought out someone like Kurrgan. Everyone remembers him wih the Oddities, but before that, when he was with the Truth Commision/Jackal, dude was scary as hell, and had this weird claw finishing move (I think)

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Tell me how you guys can endure watching Cena-Big Show part 56780 ?

DVR & fast forward.

Though as much as hate Cena, I have to say he killed it with the Star Wars promo last night.

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I meant to post this and don't know if it has been posted before, but it is still funny.... (Edited by me so I won't get banned :D )

Hulk vs. Sheik was when I started to watch wrestling. Truly awesome rivalry, but if it wasn't Sheik it would be someone else. Hulkamania was bound to happen. Sorry you old, crazy, ultra'national cussing machine.

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I was reading a wrestling blog and someone brought up Del Rio and how he's supposedly a rich, arrogant heel, but he really doesn't do much besides tell you how rich he is. The comparison is DiBiase who told you how rich he was and did things with his money from the silly (knocking away a kid's basketball instead of paying him) to the completely over the top evil (hiring a twin referee to give Andre the title and then buying the title).

That got me me thinking: where are the evil heels? Kane is evil (sometimes) but generally in a cartoony way. There is no Jake Roberts who is doing awful things because he is enjoys it. (I'm thinking of the slapping Elizabeth angle). There don't seem to be any Rick Rude types. Old school WWF always had Superman Hogan versus Super Villian Fat Guy on top, but the mid-card was generally truly evil mothers torturing the babyfaces.

Think of Wrestlemania III. Andre v. Hogan was about the betrayal of a man's best friend teaming up with his worse enemy. Randy Savage more or less tried to murder Ricky Steamboat to set up that match. Adrian Adonis took Piper's show and his best friend, broke his leg, and finally humiliated him. The Hart Foundation had taken the titles from the British Bulldogs with the help of a crooked referee who was now their partner. I mean, there is some heavy evil going on there.

Those four matches really make that card special, and I think the key is how much heat the heels were able to get going in. Andre more or less made Hogan have a nervous breakdown on tv and ripped off his cross necklace (Sacrilege = ratings). Savage, like I said, nearly murdered Steamboat. Piper was left crippled on the ground, his face covered in makeup. The Harts ended up with the title belts.

(You could also look at Honky Tonk Man at that time. He crushed Jake Roberts with a guitar and then got his typical cheap win at Wrestlemania III which set him up to go after Steamboat and become the most annoying hell champion in history. HTM was a heel who really could not wrestle at all and yet he didn't get pinned for something like two years. Today, he would be put in a typical 50/50 feud and bore everyone to death within 3 months. But because they filled his balloon so big, he was able to launch the Ultimate Warrior into the stratosphere in their match).

When was the last time a Heel in the WWE got legitimate nuclear heat like that? When was the last time more than one heel had that going on?

Right now, the closest any has to that level of heat is AJ, and she is dangerously close to becoming a "cool heel" which inevitably becomes a "cool face."

Edited by Lombardi's_kid_brother

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It takes supreme talent to be a super heel imo, or even a really good heel. I think back to a lot of the heels that I watched during the early 90's-early/mid '00s, and quite a few of them weren't able to stay heels for long, because they sucked at it.

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It takes supreme talent to be a super heel imo, or even a really good heel. I think back to a lot of the heels that I watched during the early 90's-early/mid '00s, and quite a few of them weren't able to stay heels for long, because they sucked at it.

Then why were there so many great heels in 1985-1986?

Piper, Andre, DiBiase, Savage, HTM, Adonis, Jake, Orndorff, Valentine, Heenan, etc. were all incredible heels. They had an announcer in Jesse who was more over as a heel than anyone currently on the roster. (I don't really care about the Iron Shiek/Volkoff heel types because that was so easy to do in that era. Every podunk territory had a Russian heel).

That's just WWF. Tully Blanchard was so over as a heel in Crockett that Magnum TA got a monster babyface pop by jamming a piece of wood into his eye. Think about that. The fans legitimately wanted him killed in the ring and were cheering at the thought that it was happening in front of them. Nikita Koloff went way beyond the typical Russian heel character by being legitimately terrifying. The Midnight Express could not speak but were utterly despised because they took such pleasure in beating up prettyboy faces.

Granted, that was still an era of kayfabe, but is the problem that no wrestler actually wants to be hated now? They all want to be "cool heels?"

Edited by Lombardi's_kid_brother

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I know alot of you guys don't pay attention to, or don't care for TNA, but I personally think Bobby Roode is one of the better heels right now in all of wrestling.

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I know alot of you guys don't pay attention to, or don't care for TNA, but I personally think Bobby Roode is one of the better heels right now in all of wrestling.

I'm hearing awesome things about TNA, but I just can't get myself to watch.

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I know alot of you guys don't pay attention to, or don't care for TNA, but I personally think Bobby Roode is one of the better heels right now in all of wrestling.

He probably is the best heel in wrestling. I know there was some talk about him moving to WWE at some point, but I hope that does not happen. I honestly prefer TNA at this point, and they would just bury him or botch it.

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RKO could have been that guy LKB...

This

and

I know alot of you guys don't pay attention to, or don't care for TNA, but I personally think Bobby Roode is one of the better heels right now in all of wrestling.

This.

When I was reading LKB's post these were the two people I thought of. And I know yah are getting tired of me talking about him, but I swear Kofi Kingston could be a good heel. I saw a promo he shot before coming to WWE and he was ruthless.

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is the problem that no wrestler actually wants to be hated now? They all want to be "cool heels?"

That's probably more likely. If I had the talent to be a wrestler, err "Sports entertainer," I'd definitely want to be a heel. Running in, destroying matches, ****ting on fans/cities, working the refs to my advantage, etc. That is just awesome :ols:

Edited by Mr. Sinister

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I'm hearing awesome things about TNA' date=' but I just can't get myself to watch.[/quote']

I'm on my 3rd stint of thoroughly following TNA. Usually after a few months I just lose interest and stop watching. But I've been following it pretty closely since about January and I think they are moving in the right direction. For one, going to live shows was a big improvement I think. There are still some "ugh" moments, like last week's resolution to a storyline involving a rumored affair between AJ Styles and Dixie Carter. They have some dumb ideas and storylines but also some really good ones as well as good ideas and concepts. For example, I enjoy their Bound For Glory series that they did last year and just started up again 2 weeks ago. At the same time, I feel like they are dropping the ball with their "Gutcheck" idea, hopefully they turn it around. I think their biggest problem right now is improving the talent on their roster. They recently lost Alex Shelley and Matt Morgan (not that he was doing much for them any way). Plus 2 weeks ago Chris Sabin blew out his knee again and is done for another year. So they have to do something to expand their roster because you can only watch Jeff Hardy vs. RVD vs. Mr Anderson so many times.

All that said, they are still a long way off of being a real competitor to WWE.

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I'm on my 3rd stint of thoroughly following TNA. Usually after a few months I just lose interest and stop watching.

...

They recently lost Alex Shelley and Matt Morgan (not that he was doing much for them any way). Plus 2 weeks ago Chris Sabin blew out his knee again and is done for another year.

Haha...I have done the same thing. I have drifted away and come back more than a few times.

And I did not even realize that Morgan and Shelley were gone. I always liked Shelley and Morgan has always had a lot of potential, he has just never quite realized it. And I knew that Sabin had hurt himself again; as soon as I saw him, I knew that was not fake. That sucks.

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Haha...I have done the same thing. I have drifted away and come back more than a few times.

And I did not even realize that Morgan and Shelley were gone. I always liked Shelley and Morgan has always had a lot of potential, he has just never quite realized it. And I knew that Sabin had hurt himself again; as soon as I saw him, I knew that was not fake. That sucks.

This is probably the longest TNA has held my attention, which is good I guess haha.

I read that Morgan's dates are all used up on his contract so he is essentially a "free agent". There are rumors that he is going back to WWE but I don't know if that's true. As for Shelley it sounds like he's taking a break from wrestling all together. I think there was a tweet or something from him that stated he was going onto a new career path.

Chris Daniels is an OK heel, but they could do so much more with him if they wanted to. Roode is the best thing they have going, and I think setting up another match vs. James Storm at BFG is on the horizon.

---------- Post added June-27th-2012 at 12:10 PM ----------

RVD's still wrestling? It would be hard for me to think that he would be able to pull off a lot of the stuff that he used to.

Yeah he still wrestles but definitely not like he used to. Mostly a bunch of kicks, rolling thunder, etc. He still throws in a frog splash every now and then but it's nothing like vintage RVD.

Edited by f_trizzy

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The most interesting thing about Del Rio is what kinda car are they gonna rent for him to drive into the arena. And his ring announcer.

After that he doesn't do anything more heelish than the faces.

When everyone's throwing punches and kicks, they're all interchangeable anyway.

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Yeah he still wrestles but definitely not like he used to. Mostly a bunch of kicks, rolling thunder, etc. He still throws in a frog splash every now and then but it's nothing like vintage RVD.

Yeah, that figures. That match between him and Jeff Hardy at Invasion (I think) is one of my most favorite dream matches of all time. I became a huge ECW fan (once they went on tv), mainly because of him.

Edited by Mr. Sinister

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I'm not sure what I was doing to come across this picture, but this may be the greatest collection of facial expressions in one photo, ever.

tumblr_lhcc9gUdRg1qgt8t1.jpg

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The evil heel you guys so desperately want is coming....i'm hearing rumors that he may even have a match on Raw for the 1,000 episode. If they use the guy right, he's exactly what you're looking for....that man is Dean Ambrose. If you don't know who he is...look at his work in FCW. Around Wrestlemania he had a nice little twitter/off air feud with Mick Foley about the affects of Mick Foley's generation influencing and hurting young wrestlers such as himself. He's a twisted dude....he could pull off the "evil" thing well if WWE uses him right.

Just so you know how high people in the business are on this kid.....CM Punk has been quoted as calling him "the WWE's secret weapon".

Edited by Drop

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I'm worried about that too...i'm not sure he fits the pg era mold at all. Hopefully with the 1,000 episode of Raw they're going to usher in a somewhat, slightly more provocative new era. I know we won't be seeing another attitude era anytime soon. But they've gotta do something to spice up the product. Hopefully, they let Ambrose and some of these other guys show what they're capable of.

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