MonkeySkin Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 Make your own mind up.. Don't leave it to people to persuade or disuade you from God. I didn't say you were going to hell or not.. God did.. Read the bible if your interested in it. Yeah, I could really see Jesus saying to someone "You are a waste, and you're going to hell." Sounds exactly like the things he taught :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPinstripe Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 I certainly did not intend that as a personal attack. I was using the term "cute" as in "contrived to charm." That is, you are holding your religion and science in general to two different standards. You hold science to the standard of scientific method, and use that as an argumant against science and evolution. Then you say the Bible is factually correct only you don't hold it to the same standard of scientific method. Ok I perceived it as a personal attack. I take that back then. I believe the Bible is factual. But I also know that it cantt really be proven. Though what I see in science and in just the world around me proves it to me. But in regards to the scientific method I can not really prove it. Evolution is like Christianity in that they arent proven. There are no facts, but you have to believe in one or the other based on what you see. You see it as supporting Evolution, which I of course think is wrong. I assume you believe in Evolution whole heartedly? So you have the evolutionists worldview. A quick question. What should we do with poor people? Help them out? What? Also, wouldn't mind continueing this in the private message area, as this topic seems to have gotten off point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashburnskinsfan Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 yet I see no quotes from athiests that were actually in a life/death situation... odd Happy to oblige http://www.americanhumanist.org/humanism/foxhole.html And here are some more active and former military. http://www.maaf.info/expaif.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gchwood Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 That's funny ... reading the Bible was what turned me away from Christianity. How could it trun you away from Christianity? That doesn't seem logical, to read the holy book of a religion as one that was, at least the way you put it, someone who beleived what itsaid at first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPinstripe Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 Yeah, I could really see Jesus saying to someone "You are a waste, and you're going to hell." Sounds exactly like the things he taught :laugh: Well no, He would have taught if you do not believe in Me you will go to hell. Simple. It does not matter how many good deeds you do. You could donate billions of dollars to charities all around the world and devote your life to helping others. While that is all well and good, the bible says that if you do not believe in Him you will go to hell. Good works does not bring redemption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPinstripe Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 How could it trun you away from Christianity? That doesn't seem logical, to read the holy book of a religion as one that was, at least the way you put it, someone who beleived what itsaid at first. What happens is people read it and dont like what they read. Dont like that they have to answer to someone, dont like the rules. They want to live their lives the way they want to live them, not Gods ways. Very basically, thats how. It is sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gchwood Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 Happy to oblige http://www.americanhumanist.org/humanism/foxhole.html And here are some more active and former military. http://www.maaf.info/expaif.html I was referring to your previous link, I have no doubt that there are athiests that as adamant about it as some Christians are about their faith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techboy Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 1 Peter 3:15-17 15But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, 16keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinva Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 Are you questioning my education?I GUARANTEE I have more education than you do and I dont even know you.and I am saying that out of love. Vinva,you can take the bible however you want but you (and everyone)is going to have to give an account for your thoughts and actions one day especially towards God's word.When it all boils down,whether its on your death bed or God forbid something tragic,you will begin to question what you really believe about God or Christ and I really hope it is not too late.Harden not your heart and open your mind about exactly what you beleive about eternity because you and I both know that this world is not all there is out there after your soul leaves your body. I'm perfectly comfortable with my faith... I believe that the bible was written by man and inspired by God. I think that modern religion has ****ized the Old Testament by making it something that it is not...an historical record. The Old Testament is a series of stories meant to explain things that people could not understand at the time they were created. It's the meanings of the stories that are valid...not the stories themselves. We have a God given ability to think, to reason and to explore our world. Why are so many people afraid of that? My biggest problem with this whole discussion whenever it is had is that it seems everyone must take a side...religion or science. Why? God gave us the ability to do these things that scientists are now doing. Are we not supposed to further our understanding of the natural world? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Nostril Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 Yeah, I could really see Jesus saying to someone "You are a waste, and you're going to hell." Sounds exactly like the things he taught :laugh: Yeah, I'm often appalled by the way other Christians interact with people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 You'll get the hell proof when you die.. Doubt you'll ever get the heaven proof you seek... You and Satan can discuss logic for eternity yay! This always-popular reaction hardly represents Christianity well, does it? "I'm so irritated that you argue about this that I can't wait for you to burn in eternal agony hahahah." Then when called on it, the comment is usally brushed away with a generic "hey, they had their opportunity to believe", ignoring the point. (I am speaking generically here, Gothimus, not putting words in your mouth.) That one always throws me when I see it in these kind of discussions, until I remind myself that I have my moments of ill-will, too, and such are not limited to Christians or non-Christians but are apparently human :laugh: . Although the hell-buring thing does have that little extra-vicious twist so common in these dialogues. And now, I return to my spiritual position of not usually discussing religion on a message board Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70th Week Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 Well no, He would have taught if you do not believe in Me you will go to hell. Simple. It does not matter how many good deeds you do. You could donate billions of dollars to charities all around the world and devote your life to helping others. While that is all well and good, the bible says that if you do not believe in Him you will go to hell. Good works does not bring redemption. Romans 3:12 There is none that doeth good, no, not one. just to piggyback on what you said this verse pretty much knocks in the head all the junk about "good" people making it to heaven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gchwood Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 Well no, He would have taught if you do not believe in Me you will go to hell. Simple. It does not matter how many good deeds you do. You could donate billions of dollars to charities all around the world and devote your life to helping others. While that is all well and good, the bible says that if you do not believe in Him you will go to hell. Good works does not bring redemption. That is correct. Faith not works is the only way to heaven, I am sorry but Jesus said it himself. What happens is people read it and dont like what they read. Dont like that they have to answer to someone, dont like the rules. They want to live their lives the way they want to live them, not Gods ways. Very basically, thats how. It is sad. NO I want to know about him. I don't think your assessment is very fair their could be many different reasons other than that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashburnskinsfan Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 I was referring to your previous link, I have no doubt that there are athiests that as adamant about it as some Christians are about their faith My point (using Atheists in Foxholes) was to disprove the lie that everyone turns to god when faced with death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooka Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 But in their book it is not God, it is allah which is a false god. Muslim's believe that the Christain God and Allah are the same. They just follow the word of Muhammed (Koran) rather then believe Jesus was the son of God and follow the bible.Then when called on it, the comment is usally brushed away with a generic "hey, they had their opportunity to believe", ignoring the point. I guess the people that grew up in a non-Christain enviornment are just SOL... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cdowwe Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 Yep, God and Satan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70th Week Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 I'm perfectly comfortable with my faith...I believe that the bible was written by man and inspired by God. I think that modern religion has ****ized the Old Testament by making it something that it is not...an historical record. The Old Testament is a series of stories meant to explain things that people could not understand at the time they were created. It's the meanings of the stories that are valid...not the stories themselves. We have a God given ability to think, to reason and to explore our world. Why are so many people afraid of that? My biggest problem with this whole discussion whenever it is had is that it seems everyone must take a side...religion or science. Why? God gave us the ability to do these things that scientists are now doing. Are we not supposed to further our understanding of the natural world? yea,I pretty much stand where you do in the middle of religion and science.there shouldnt be a division between the two but a unity with each other.you shouldnt use one to try and disprove the other(cat chasing tail inserted here) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gchwood Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 This always-popular reaction hardly represents Christianity well, does it?"I'm so irritated that you argue about this that I can't wait for you to burn in eternal agony hahahah." Then when called on it, the comment is usally brushed away with a generic "hey, they had their opportunity to believe", ignoring the point. (I am speaking generically here, Gothimus, not putting words in your mouth.) That one always throws me when I see it in these kind of discussions, until I remind myself that I have my moments of ill-will, too, and such are not limited to Christians or non-Christians but are apparently human :laugh: . Although the hell-buring thing does have that little extra-vicious twist so common in these dialogues. And now, I return to my spiritual position of not usually discussing religion on a message board I as a Christian don't like having to point out that someone will go to Hell, trust me it ain't fun, I prefer to point out how to get to Heaven, kind of a nicer way of things. But the fact still remains Faith= heaven, good Deeds-faith= hell Not our rules just Gods Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPinstripe Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 This always-popular reaction hardly represents Christianity well, does it?"I'm so irritated that you argue about this that I can't wait for you to burn in eternal agony hahahah." Then when called on it, the comment is usally brushed away with a generic "hey, they had their opportunity to believe", ignoring the point. (I am speaking generically here, Gothimus, not putting words in your mouth.) That one always throws me when I see it in these kind of discussions, until I remind myself that I have my moments of ill-will, too, and such are not limited to Christians or non-Christians but are apparently human :laugh: . Although the hell-buring thing does have that little extra-vicious twist so common in these dialogues. And now, I return to my spiritual position of not usually discussing religion on a message board You are kind of generalizing and jumboling all Christians into the same group. Good many people profess to be Christains but arent. They are Christians on sunday, but then once they are out of the church they act like everyone else. Christians leave and try to act as the bible tells them. Now of course they fail, because no one is perfect and we all sin, but while a Christian ends up sinning, once he does he or she knows they did. And they repent of it and asking God for forgiveness and to help them in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeySkin Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 Well no, He would have taught if you do not believe in Me you will go to hell. Simple. It does not matter how many good deeds you do. You could donate billions of dollars to charities all around the world and devote your life to helping others. While that is all well and good, the bible says that if you do not believe in Him you will go to hell. Good works does not bring redemption. I'm not talking about doing good things, like giving a cookie to a kid... I'm talking about living your life the way Jesus taught to do. Being a good person just sums it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Nostril Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 http://www.maaf.info/expaif.html Do you have to be both an atheist and a freethinker to join, or just one or the other? If the later is true, could a Christian or Muslim freethinker join? Similarly could an atheist bound-thinker join? Eh, it doesn't matter. I'm not in the military so I know I don't qualify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gchwood Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 My point (using Atheists in Foxholes) was to disprove the lie that everyone turns to god when faced with death. oh I know, I got you the first time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70th Week Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 dont you just love religious threads :laugh: almost as good as that post-padding thread :laugh: :coach: paging KingBrice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterPinstripe Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 I'm not talking about doing good things, like giving a cookie to a kid...I'm talking about living your life the way Jesus taught to do. Being a good person just sums it up. Well, if they are living their life how Jesus taught them to then that would mean they would also believe in him. There is a difference these days between a "good person" and following what Jesus taught. As I said, if they believe in him, they will not perish. But I do not see how someone could live their life how Jesus would want them to, but not believe in Jesus so I am not sure what we are arguing about. Maybe I should ask what your definition of living the way Jesus taught is? Edit -- If someone reads the bible and sees what Jesus taught and goes hey, thats a good idea, I will follow that, and doesnt believe in Jesus that person is still going to hell. The only way to get into heaven is by believing in Jesus, and its really not hard to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gchwood Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 I'm not talking about doing good things, like giving a cookie to a kid...I'm talking about living your life the way Jesus taught to do. Being a good person just sums it up. In theory if you can live you life without any sin than you may stand a chance, but since you nor anyone else can, you have to have faith in Christ and accept his sacrifice for your sins for you to get into heaven. If you do one sinful thing, even a little tiny white lie, you are seperated from God and Heaven without Christ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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