Do you believe in Satan ?

[Kurd Cudins]

Says the one that knows all. :doh: To say your example is correct is extreamly narrow minded. As one person pointed out already, our memories are not what they were hundreds of years ago. Back in those days people could remember multiple incredible long stories. Stories such as the Illiad for example. To say that our memories are the same as they were back then, and to compare your example... Well, its just arrogent and ignorant.

You desperate for whatever you can grasp at.

So, as people, we are getting dumber? This is your reasoning? We are so dumb now we should not question our ancestors? Honestly, if you are going to argue that the Bible is the true word because we don't have the same memory capability as ancient middle-easterners, I will personally pay for you to get an education. Good luck with that kid. :doh:

[MisterPinstripe]

I think if you look closer at Gen.1 and 2 you will see that God making man and making Adam was two different things.Everyone came from them?they are only 6000 years old,man has been dated older than that.(long study) I am going to have to agree with the dude you qouted on this one.

"world"if you look in the ancient text described in Gen.does not mean the entire world.pick you up an original hebrew version of the bible and you will see.How could noah collect every animal around the world and put them on a boat in just a few days? With Gods help.

Peter walked on water through the help of Jesus until he took his eyes off of Him.

Actually, Peter walked on water because he had faith, not because Jesus was wiggling his fingers at him. When he got scared because of the high waves and lost his faith, he fell.

[MonkeySkin]

Unfortunitly, yes I believe there is.

People want to talk about being possessed or something...but that doesn't happen much these days I believe..

What does happen, is people can be influrenced by him since God gave us an open mind, and the ability to do right or wrong. I think he influrences all of us everyday...and there's definitely a war between good and evil going on in the world. Just like there's a war between good and evil going on within ourselves.

He can mess with our minds, but not our hearts and soul. I believe those belong to God.

When I was younger, my Tae Kwon Do master said that when you get mad and angry, that's the devil. I think that's kind of simply put or whatnot, but that's pretty much what I believe.

[G-Prime]

nope, i think very logically, which is why i dont put much importance in religion. until concrete proof is found that heavan/hell actually exist, i refuse to believe that they do.

You'll get the hell proof when you die.. Doubt you'll ever get the heaven proof you seek...

You and Satan can discuss logic for eternity yay!

[MisterPinstripe]

So, as people, we are getting dumber? This is your reasoning? We are so dumb now we should not question our ancestors? Honestly, if you are going to argue that the Bible is the true word because we don't have the same memory capability as ancient middle-easterners, I will personally pay for you to get an education. Good luck with that kid. :doh:

Saying that peoples memories are not as good does not mean we are dumber. :doh: Also, it really does not matter if you agree with me or not because it is a fact that they had better memories. I am not arguing that its the true word because of memories, I am saying it is because it is. Take it or leave it, you will probably leave it. Oh my... Start attacking my education when you know nothing about my education. When someone resorts to personally attacks that tells you something. :laugh:

[MonkeySkin]

You'll get the hell proof when you die.. Doubt you'll ever get the heaven proof you seek...

You and Satan can discuss logic for eternity yay!

That's not right... who are you to say if someone is going to hell or not?

BTW, I think that kind of stuff is what turns people off from religon.

[Shallow1]

Well Im to lazy to read all of this thread, but I will throw this out there.....

Ok, "Terrorists" if you mean all of them in general spiritually speaking the "christian theology" is that they are driven by the "spirit" of anti-christ witch would be any motivation outside of and directly mean't to counter the teachings of Jesus and the Christian bible. In other word they are trying to achieve the goals of there beliefs though fear witch is the opposite of Love and Love is what Christians are suppossed to use achieve there goals to glorify God on this earth. (side note the christain theology of Love is : Love is not an emotion, "God is Love" and he encompases all emotion but Love is a dedicated commitment you make to humanity to serve and be obediant to Gods word for there best intrest according to what the Bible teachs.) Fear is the oposite of that and completely self serving.

Now onto the "Radical Muslim Terroist", (((THIS IS VERY CONDENSED AND WRITTEN IN MINUTES BECAUSE I GOT TO GO TO LUNCH!)))the theory of the of where the radical Muslim religion gets its hatred for Jews and Christians and really Freedom in general, comes from the story of Abraham when he and his wife could not have children his wife said he could get her handmaid pregnant, he did and they had a child...Ishmael....now having a child by his handmaid was out of the will of God and God did let his wife get pregnant and have a child named Issac,........God told Abraham that since Ishmael was born out of his will he would give him a "great nation" but he would never get the "blessing of God" of Issac because Ishmael was born out of disobeidiance to God. Now Ishmael was sent away and it has been theorized that the "Muslim Nation" is the nation Ishmael was to rule over. Now this basically comes down to an illegitamate child syndrome that hates his father and the "real son" so much that they (muslim teachings) have promoted hatred and the irratication of Jews and Christians because of jealousy and hate that they got the blessing of the one true God.

[MisterPinstripe]

That's not right... who are you to say if someone is going to hell or not?

He doesnt, God does, and since God says those who do not believe in him will perish, so Goth is correct in his statement if the guy does not believe before he dies.

[dreamingwolf]

So, as people, we are getting dumber? This is your reasoning? We are so dumb now we should not question our ancestors? Honestly, if you are going to argue that the Bible is the true word because we don't have the same memory capability as ancient middle-easterners, I will personally pay for you to get an education. Good luck with that kid. :doh:

no one said anything about getting dumber, lazier when talking about memory sure, but not dumber. Hey, I know you got your thing against christianity and that works for you, but there are so many better avenues to attack your enemy of christianity on than saying that oral history traditions are akin to camp fire story chains. We are just letting you know that attack method is arrogant and ignorant, and only other people who hate christianity and judaism like you are gonna buy it.

troop on though if you think its making you look smart and helping in your crusade. Keep in mind this is comming from someone who is not religous, so Im not defending the bible.

[Midnight Judges]

You need to learn the definition of the word "proof"

Just because you never seen anyone walk on water and you don't know of any immaculate conceptions, doesn't mean that's it's never happened in certain extrordinary circumstances.

As far as people living to be 700+ years. The Universe is old. Humankind is old. If subtle changes are made in species over the course of time in order to survive, why should we assume that the human life span has always been the same length as it is now?

Also, while no one has proof of the earth's age (proof requires observation, and no one was there when the earth began), I would argue that the Bible doesn't necessarily support a young earth. I know that many Bible believers do, but if you read the Genesis creation story it's pretty obviously poetry. There's no reason to believe that the story of creation was the literal manner in which God created the earth. Honestly, what possible purpose could God have for telling us exactly how the universe was created?

I understand perfectly the definition of the word proof.

Nobody has ever walked on water. You can take that to the bank. I don't believe in magic. You apparently do.

You call living for 700 years a "subtle" change?!? :laugh:

Actually, we do have proof of Earths age, through OBSERVATION of carbon dating (yet another in the long list of sciences denied by the Church).

As for your final question, God, if he did exist, would tell us how Earth was created for the purpose of validating his authority. People seemed to have created the word "faith" to combat any and all reality based contradictions in the Bible.

[70th Week]

Actually, Peter walked on water because he had faith, not because Jesus was wiggling his fingers at him. When he got scared because of the high waves and lost his faith, he fell.

Yes,that is exactly what I was saying.he lost his faith as you were saying is the same thing as saying he took his eyes off Jesus(like I was saying)No one said he was wiggling his fingers at him.

[MisterPinstripe]

I understand perfectly the definition of the word proof.

Nobody has ever walked on water. You can take that to the bank. I don't believe in magic. You apparently do.

You call living for 700 years a "subtle" change?!? :laugh:

Actually, we do have proof of Earths age, through OBSERVATION of carbon dating (yet another in the long list of sciences denied by the Church).

As for your final question, God, if he did exist, would tell us how Earth was created for the purpose of validating his authority. People seemed to have created the word "faith" to combat any and all reality based contradictions in the Bible.

When you can offer actual facts and proof, then your argument will hold water. If anything envolving evoluation was factual at all, it would no longer be a theory. :2cents:

[Kurd Cudins]

Saying that peoples memories are not as good does not mean we are dumber. :doh: Also, it really does not matter if you agree with me or not because it is a fact that they had better memories. I am not arguing that its the true word because of memories, I am saying it is because it is. Take it or leave it, you will probably leave it. Oh my... Start attacking my education when you know nothing about my education. When someone resorts to personally attacks that tells you something. :laugh:

I'm not attacking your education, i'm offering to give you one What evidence do you have to support the idea that our memories are worse today? "It is because it is"? What does that mean? I think because I am? Obviously, I will leave any notion that the Bible is the true word, but do you think that Jewish people have much better memories because they are the descendants of these people? Or middle-easterners in general? Do they know more than we do? Have they remembered more?

[MisterPinstripe]

Yes,that is exactly what I was saying.he lost his faith as you were saying is the same thing as saying he took his eyes off Jesus(like I was saying)No one said he was wiggling his fingers at him.

Ok, I read it wrong, my bad. What you said came across as Jesus doing something to hold him up, when it was really his faith in God.

[Midnight Judges]

1-the bible doesnt state how old the earth is.it says"in the beginning".

2-no.adam and eve were direct decendants to the line of Jesus.that is why the bible starts with them,it is the story of Jesus,not the history of the world.

3-yes.when it says that the world was destroyed by water,the word "world"was translated improperly as is was meaning a specific location.There is evidence that a major flood did occur in noah's day in that location.

4-no,humans cant now but no evidence says they couldnt then.

5-no,people cannot walk on water,Jesus did.

6-immaculate coception does not exist,except for Jesus.He was God made flesh,and He can do anything He pleases.

you might need to do some more reading with an open mind instead of bashing something that you do not understand. :2cents:

I understand the Bible perfectly. I've read it. The difference is I haven't been told since birth that is was factuallly correct. You can make anyone believe anything if you indoctrinate them at a young enough age.

[MisterPinstripe]

I'm not attacking your education, i'm offering to give you one What evidence do you have to support the idea that our memories are worse today? "It is because it is"? What does that mean? I think because I am? Obviously, I will leave any notion that the Bible is the true word, but do you think that Jewish people have much better memories because they are the descendants of these people? Or middle-easterners in general? Do they know more than we do? Have they remembered more?

Which is attacking my education when you know nothing about my education. So it would be wise to leave personal attacks out of it as it just makes you look worst. :doh: When did I ever say Jews or middle-easterners have better memories? The reason we have worst memories these days is because of the culture. We have TVs, newspapers, internet, computers, these all make it so we do not have to exercise our memories, which makes our memories not work nearly as well. Its like a muscle. If you dont work a muscle, it gets pretty weak. Same with this. If someone was to constantly exercise their memory, avoid all the lazy ways out, then they will eventually get back to the memory that those who didnt have these way had. People just dont exercise their memories anymore which is why you cant compare the two.

[Mr. Nostril]

I understand perfectly the definition of the word proof.

Nobody has ever walked on water. You can take that to the bank. I don't believe in magic. You apparently do.

You call living for 700 years a "subtle" change?!? :laugh:

Actually, we do have proof of Earths age, through OBSERVATION of carbon dating (yet another in the long list of sciences denied by the Church).

As for your final question, God, if he did exist, would tell us how Earth was created for the purpose of validating his authority. People seemed to have created the word "faith" to combat any and all reality based contradictions in the Bible.

This post is just as illogical and dogmatic as even the least intellectual religious person I've ever met. Which is pretty bad.

[MisterPinstripe]

I understand the Bible perfectly. I've read it. The difference is I haven't been told since birth that is was factuallly correct. You can make anyone believe anything if you indoctrinate them at a young enough age.

Exactly my point. You have been indoctrinated that the bible is not real. Finally you get it. Do you realize how many Christians were born Christians, but actually become so later in life? To genarlize like that is not helping you.

[Midnight Judges]

If you believe all of this, that's fine. But this post is just as illogical and dogmatic as even the least intellectual religious person I've ever met.

There was nothing illogical in my post. That is why you failed to point anything out specifically.

[Kurd Cudins]

no one said anything about getting dumber, lazier when talking about memory sure, but not dumber. Hey, I know you got your thing against christianity and that works for you, but there are so many better avenues to attack your enemy of christianity on than saying that oral history traditions are akin to camp fire story chains. We are just letting you know that attack method is arrogant and ignorant, and only other people who hate christianity and judaism like you are gonna buy it.

troop on though if you think its making you look smart and helping in your crusade. Keep in mind this is comming from someone who is not religous, so Im not defending the bible.

I don't know why you think I am attacking these religions. i am questioning the notion that the Bible is the word of God. Obviously, because the focus of these religions IS that the Bible IS the word of God, it becomes a very fine line. It's not like I am saying negative things about the figures of the Bible, or the things they said. I have not attacked ideas, only historical value. I realize, for some(not you) that feels like a shot at the religion as a whole. Its not my intention but an unfortunate byproduct of the topic, which I think WAS Satan. It's like I said earlier in the thread, haven't you realized that I am the demon spawn of Satan, and I exist in the hearts and minds of those corrupted by religion

[CrabR]

1-the bible doesnt state how old the earth is.it says"in the beginning".

3-yes.when it says that the world was destroyed by water,the word "world"was translated improperly as is was meaning a specific location.There is evidence that a major flood did occur in noah's day in that location.

same words are used for Heaven and Earth in Gen 1:1 as used in Gen 6:17

"Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."

"Gen 6:17- And, behold , I , even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth , to destroy all flesh , wherein is the breath of life , from under heaven ; and every thing that is in the earth shall die "

so if you are saying God only flooded a "specific location" then you have to also say he only created a "specific location" instead of the universe

4-no,humans cant now but no evidence says they couldnt then.

there is evidence they couldn't........fossils,

5-no,people cannot walk on water,Jesus did.

Buddha & Krishna walked on water also

6-immaculate coception does not exist,except for Jesus.He was God made flesh,and He can do anything He pleases.

All cultures have virgin birth stories

you might need to do some more reading with an open mind instead of bashing something that you do not understand. :2cents:

maybe we do understand it, after 30 years I finally got it

[gchwood]

I think if you look closer at Gen.1 and 2 you will see that God making man and making Adam was two different things.Everyone came from them?they are only 6000 years old,man has been dated older than that.(long study)

Gen 2:4-7 NIV

4 This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created.

When the LORD God made the earth and the heavens- 5 and no shrub of

the field had yet appeared on the earth [b] and no plant of the field had yet

sprung up, for the LORD God had not sent rain on the earth [c] and there

was no man to work the ground, 6 but streams [d] came up from the earth

and watered the whole surface of the ground- 7 the LORD God formed the

man [e] from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath

of life, and the man became a living being"

Gen 2:4-7 KJV

4These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were

created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

5And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of

the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the

earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

6But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of

the ground. 7And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed

into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Gen 2:4-7 NASB (Most accurate translation from the Hebrew)

4(D)This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were

created, in (E)the day that the LORD God made earth and heaven.

5(F)Now no shrub of the field was yet in the earth, and no plant of the field

had yet sprouted, (G)for the LORD God had not sent rain upon the earth, and

there was no man to cultivate the ground.

6But a mist used to rise from the earth and water the whole surface of the

ground. 7Then the LORD God formed man of (H)dust from the ground, and breathed

into his nostrils the breath of life; and (I)man became a living being.

There we have three translations that show that Adam was indeed the first man. we could go further to prove that eve was the first woman. If you only have one historical document showing the creation of man, than you should honor what it says

[Midnight Judges]

When you can offer actual facts and proof, then your argument will hold water. If anything envolving evoluation was factual at all, it would no longer be a theory. :2cents:

That's cute the way you are trying to use scientific method as an argument for your Religion. The Bible does not hold up under this same level of scientific scrutiny and that is why the Bible is not taught in science or history classes.

BTW, evolution "envolves" all sorts of factual history-like the 40 different types of human-like skulls that go from ape to man over a period of 5 million years. Then again you don't believe in carbon dating.

[MonkeySkin]

He doesnt, God does, and since God says those who do not believe in him will perish, so Goth is correct in his statement if the guy does not believe before he dies.

Nonetheless, maybe he's a better person than you, and does more good in the world than you do, I guess he's still going to hell?

I have a few friends who don't believe in God for their own reasons, or really just don't know....and they are good people that I don't believe will go to hell. I'm not the one to make that decision, so I don't judge them or look down on them. It's too bad that other people think they are better than someone else were they could actually say you're going to hell. I could never bring myself to judge someone like that, no matter what someone wrote. That's why a lot of people don't like religon...

But me personally, I don't puch much into a book that had man's filthy hands all over it, because like I said, man can be influenced. I'd rather search for my self, within my self, through prayer, etc...

I believe in having a personal relationship with God. And I don't need religon to tell me how to do that. I don't need religon to tell me what's right or wrong, my heart, soul, and God tells me that.

[70th Week]

Ok, I read it wrong, my bad. What you said came across as Jesus doing something to hold him up, when it was really his faith in God.

:chestram: good,I'd hate to be arguing with you too.there is enough of that in this thread already. :laugh: