Baculus Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 Do you have any links or reccomend any books with a more fleshed out version of theory you mentioned about the Old Testament God being Satan? Or is that just something you came up with on your own? Or what? Heya Mr N., In reference to my earlier post, it is something that I originally developed on my own ponderings, but, with subsequent readings and research, others have discussed this theory as well, in relation to the "Is God Evil?" debates. I will look for a link that may relate to my theory, if you're still interested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gchwood Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 So all Jews for all eternity have gone to hell? How about pre-Jesus? No they had certain sacrifices that they had to do to keep themselves from going to hell. Jesus was the final sacrifice for all sins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 Well just glancing through that link I found a lot of incorrect translations of what the bible actually says. Obviously from someone that has not read the bible very well. Unfortunitly, I am off to work. If this thread is still going when I get back I shall continue the discussions. Actually, the "Dark Bible" gets its Bible "translations" from the King James version of the Bible, I believe. You can see a link to an online Bible and also compare it with other versions as well from the "Dark Bible" website. Thus, it is not "mistranslated," unless you disagree with the most common versions of the Bible (Old or New Testament). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Nostril Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 Heya Mr N.,In reference to my earlier post, it is something that I originally developed on my own ponderings, but, with subsequent readings and research, others have discussed this theory as well, in relation to the "Is God Evil?" debates. I will look for a link that may relate to my theory, if you're still interested. Definitely would still be interested. You don't have to look around if you don't want to. I can search on my own. I was more checking to see if you knew of any particularly good resources offhand. Interesting thought, though. Reminds me of something I would come up with at night when I'm trying to fall asleep, but am really not tired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gchwood Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 Your friggen brilliant dude. This is exactly what they are talking about. You can't argue that you are different and then be rude and cynical! :doh: Do not let any unwholesome words excape you mouth, just those that can be used for the edifying and uplifting of others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gchwood Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 Actually, the "Dark Bible" gets its Bible "translations" from the King James version of the Bible, I believe. You can see a link to an online Bible and also compare it with other versions as well from the "Dark Bible" website. Thus, it is not "mistranslated," unless you disagree with the most common versions of the Bible (Old or New Testament). Actually I do! The KJV is the least accurately translated version in the world (at least that I know of). The New American Standard or even the New King James are infinitely better than the KJV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gchwood Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 When referring to the New Testament, I agree.Do you believe that the Old Testament has as much validity? The old testament sets up the new testament, it shows the history of the Christian faith through Judaism, it has the laws and prophecys that are integral to the Christian faith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 Here is an interesting link that discusses "Satan." http://www.potts.net.au/Stand/satan/ot_satan.htm I've previously on the nature of Satan in various religions, and it's interesting, for between Christians, Jews, and Muslims, he is not the same. For example, in the Jewish version of "Satan," from what I understand, he is almost working with God, tempting souls and help God to understand one's weakness or temptations. I always thought that seemed like a form of spiritual entrapment. Heh. Also, Mr. Nostril, I could not find anything specific at the moment, except for (interesting") discussions which I had mentioned earlier, "Is God Evil?" I always find this discussion fascinating; If you find anything, please let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinva Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 The old testament sets up the new testament, it shows the history of the Christian faith through Judaism, it has the laws and prophecys that are integral to the Christian faith I agree...but I feel it does that without being 100% historically accurate. Do you believe it is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashburnskinsfan Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 More useless attacking from the non believers.. pathetic. Tell me why malevolent is not a good word to describe the god who wiped out almost all of humanity as punishment, and the one who you all say is going to burn non-believers in hell for all eternity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 Heya Mr N.,In reference to my earlier post, it is something that I originally developed on my own ponderings, but, with subsequent readings and research, others have discussed this theory as well, in relation to the "Is God Evil?" debates. I will look for a link that may relate to my theory, if you're still interested. I had that same thoughts as a teenager when I began my serious explorations studying religion (my uncle was a brilliant guy who was a Jesuit priest), and then I found a couple of short stories on that theme and one novella of how this guy finds out that the whole "anti-knowledge" thing and "pro-mysticism" basis of most religion was Satanically inspired and that it was Satan that introduced organized religion in the first place to defeat the natural spirituality God gave man and use the concept to drive people apart and create conflict instead of bring them together... what a silly idea ….I come to find this theme has been well-represented in philosophy and literature…another short-story version of the theme I later read tied in Satan’s use of clerical leaders and their many roles (through mans sin of pride and ego) to twisting Jesus’ attempts to send a message of forgiving all, unconditional love, working with the worst-off, shunning material wealth, not worshipping in buildings etc. into ignoring and rationalizing NOT living that way but mouthing the words (and how to explain that away) and also focus on controlling and manipulating sexual behavior, guilt, and anger to increase the suffering of man, individually and collectively…boy, where do those fiction and philosophical writers get such thoughts?… It's all interesting stuff...sometimes :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gchwood Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 I agree...but I feel it does that without being 100% historically accurate. Do you believe it is? Absolutely, why else would it be the predominant historical document from the B.C. Era? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinva Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 Absolutely, why else would it be the predominant historical document from the B.C. Era? I would argue that it's not nor was it ever intended to be...but then we would just be going in circles wouldn't we. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gchwood Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 Tell me why malevolent is not a good word to describe the god who wiped out almost all of humanity as punishment, and the one who you all say is going to burn non-beluevers in hell for all eternity? Because he is lovign enough to give us an alternative, he desires to have everyone live in heaven but he is giving you the free will to make your choice, if you make the wrong one he is upset but it is not his fault now is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techboy Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 Do you believe that the Old Testament has as much validity? Absolutely. Jesus taught from what is now called the Old Testament. Further, as stated in the article Archaeology and the Old Testament, every day we have more and more archeological evidence that the Old Testament is factually accurate. With that, plus fulfilled prophecy and other sundry arguments, I feel comfortable defending the historicity and reliability of the Old Testament (see also Are the Biblical Documents Reliable?). That being said, the Old Testament is obviously much, uh, older, and as such it's harder to have these discussions, as things become more and more speculative the farther back we go. That's one reason I tend to focus on the New Testament. In terms of history, 2000 years is relatively recent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashburnskinsfan Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 I had that same thoughts as a teenager when I began my serious explorations studying religion (my uncle was a brilliant guy who was a Jesuit priest), and then I found a couple of short stories on that theme and one novella of how this guy finds out that the whole "anti-knowledge" thing and "pro-mysticism" basis of most religion was Satanically inspired and that it was Satan that introduced organized religion in the first place to defeat the natural spirituality God gave man and use the concept to drive people apart and create conflict instead of bring them together... what a silly idea ….I come to find this theme has been well-represented in philosophy and literature…another short-story version of the theme I later read tied in Satan’s use of clerical leaders and their many roles (through mans sin of pride and ego) to twisting Jesus’ attempts to send a message of forgiving all, unconditional love, working with the worst-off, shunning material wealth, not worshipping in buildings etc. into ignoring and rationalizing NOT living that way but mouthing the words (and how to explain that away) and also focus on controlling and manipulating sexual behavior, guilt, and anger to increase the suffering of man, individually and collectively…boy, where do those fiction and philosophical writers get such thoughts?… It's all interesting stuff...sometimes :laugh: I can't believe that Satan could be so evil to do something like that. Interesting idea to put out there though when organized religion comes knocking on my door again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooka Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 Absolutely, why else would it be the predominant historical document from the B.C. Era? Code of Hammurabi? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gchwood Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 I had that same thoughts as a teenager when I began my serious explorations studying religion (my uncle was a brilliant guy who was a Jesuit priest), and then I found a couple of short stories on that theme and one novella of how this guy finds out that the whole "anti-knowledge" thing and "pro-mysticism" basis of most religion was Satanically inspired and that it was Satan that introduced organized religion in the first place to defeat the natural spirituality God gave man and use the concept to drive people apart and create conflict instead of bring them together... what a silly idea ….I come to find this theme has been well-represented in philosophy and literature…another short-story version of the theme I later read tied in Satan’s use of clerical leaders and their many roles (through mans sin of pride and ego) to twisting Jesus’ attempts to send a message of forgiving all, unconditional love, working with the worst-off, shunning material wealth, not worshipping in buildings etc. into ignoring and rationalizing NOT living that way but mouthing the words (and how to explain that away) and also focus on controlling and manipulating sexual behavior, guilt, and anger to increase the suffering of man, individually and collectively…boy, where do those fiction and philosophical writers get such thoughts?… It's all interesting stuff...sometimes :laugh: If you get overly religious it can be a device that Satan has created. However it is not about the dogma and the rituals of the religion it is about the relationship with God that is important. YOu don't ever have to set foot in a church to beleive in God, you just have to beleive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashburnskinsfan Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 Because he is lovign enough to give us an alternative, he desires to have everyone live in heaven but he is giving you the free will to make your choice, if you make the wrong one he is upset but it is not his fault now is it? Hey, I'm just looking at the data, and using the brain he gave me, to reach a conclusion about how the world works. He should have either given me better data, or a better brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gchwood Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 Code of Hammurabi? that is not a chronological document of history, it is a code of laws Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooka Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 that is not a chronological document of history, it is a code of laws You said historical document. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gchwood Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 Hey, I'm just looking at the data, and using the brain he gave me, to reach a conclusion about how the world works.He should have either given me better data, or a better brain. He gave you the short end of the stick when it comes to brains huh? Sorry not everyone can be blessed with the mental ability of me:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gchwood Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 You said historical document. Yes the code is a historical document in that it is a document and it is from history and had some historical significance being one of the first sets of written laws, but as you know it does not really give historical accounts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonkeySkin Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 Some would say God gave us ten rules, and religion took those ten rules and created thousands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashburnskinsfan Posted April 26, 2006 Share Posted April 26, 2006 He gave you the short end of the stick when it comes to brains huh?Sorry not everyone can be blessed with the mental ability of me:D He gave me the wrong sort of brain to understand him so I burn in hell for all eternity I stick with malevolent as a very favorable adjective for a deity who does stuff lik that. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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