WT - LaVar's last stand? (Discusses Possible Retirement)

[skinstzar]

Arrington has NEVER LIVED UP TO WHAT WE ALL THOIUGHT HE WOULD BE. We all thought he would be the next Lawrence Taylor well he is not, and will not be, he is a major expensive Disappointment.

I never thought he would be the next LT. I thought he would be a good linebacker, I thought he would make pro bowls and big plays. I thought he would be a leader in the community. I thought he would have a strong bond with the organization. I thought he would be a Redskin for life.

Now there is a real good chance that he isn't going to be here any more. Just like when Art Monk wasn't here any more. Just like every other time your favorite player wasn't here anymore.

People who are bashing Lavar should realize that some of us really and truly like the guy. We like the chances we have had to cheer him on as a part of our favorite team. Until he is officially off the roster I will continue to support him and hope that he makes my favorite team, the Redskins, better.

Let's just see how this plays out.

[Art]

The comments made by Arrington in the article are new. The interview was set up last week and the comments came within the last few days. It's a shame LaVar put himself above the team, again, in allowing this to become an issue now. Some of the writing after LaVar's quotes is purposely inflammatory and that makes it worse, but, still, LaVar didn't have to set this interview up.

[TODD]

I never make it a habit of criticizing players for their comments, unless I know what the question asked was. Alot of reporters ask loaded questions, trying to intentionally incite some type of drama.

Right. And it was exacerbated by very broad and far-reaching conclusions... which is okay for a message board, but for a published article in a popular paper.

LaVar in essence said if he did not play for the Redskins next year, he MAY want to retire. How is that a distraction? It doesn't effect anyone but him... Yes he's a valued member of the team, but it's all but certain that players know that there is a chance LaVar will be released in the offseason... so how is the notion of retirement any different than the idea of him playing for a different team? This is nothing new to an NFL player. This is the free agency era for God's sake, players come and go, nothing novel here.

It would be another thing if LaVar speculated that he wanted to play for San Diego next year. Did he even MENTION the Chargers or Schottenheimer? No, Elfin did. It was Elfin who said that Schottenheimer was Lavar's "favorite coach". Not LaVar. It was Elfin who incinuated that LaVar would want to play along side his boy Merrimen. Not LaVar.

LaVar did nothing but show incredible loyalty to the team, the city, and it's fans by saying he would rather retire and lose out on tens of millions of dollars than play for any team other than Washington. I can't believe some of the things you fans are saying about LaVar. If anything, you should be humbled that you as a fan mean so much to a player that he would pursue an entirely different and less-glorious career than play for another team's fans.

So please, wait for LaVar's comments. Realize that this article is hardly a distraction. And most of all, APPRECIATE that this guy is 1000% committed to your team and no others.

[skins4eva]

I never thought he would be the next LT. I thought he would be a good linebacker, I thought he would make pro bowls and big plays. I thought he would be a leader in the community. I thought he would have a strong bond with the organization. I thought he would be a Redskin for life.

Now there is a real good chance that he isn't going to be here any more. Just like when Art Monk wasn't here any more. Just like every other time your favorite player wasn't here anymore.

People who are bashing Lavar should realize that some of us really and truly like the guy. We like the chances we have had to cheer him on as a part of our favorite team. Until he is officially off the roster I will continue to support him and hope that he makes my favorite team, the Redskins, better.

Let's just see how this plays out.

I don't disagree with that approach...I also happen to think that Lavar is incapable of change. He uses the "i'm just going to be myself" line way too much. That's code for: I'm going to be selfish and ***** and moan, and I don't care. It's the equivalent of an adult tantram. I loved Lavar, i did. But, I soured on him over the years. Like I said earlier--it's sad too see all his wasted potential--if he had worked harder, allowed himself to absorb constructive criticism--the sky would have been the limit. But, it's just not in his nature. He feels that he's owed something, and the world just doesn't work that way.

[DCMONEY]

Been through hell??????? Put me through hell for 40 million and a 20,000 square foot mansion on the Chesapeake--are you serious?

I'm not speaking of his contract. I'm talking abou the losing when I say that. I mean the orgainzation for example said Champ wasn't a team player. A man who never missed a game. Played at a pro bowl level. The Skins offer him a contract at the beginning of his last season but he opts to play out his last season. Big risk. He does so. It became clear that year the Skins weren't going to the playoffs. But Champ finishes the year out when he coulda played hurt and not risk being hurt. He knew he was gonna get paid with the Skins or someone. This guy never missed a game and people said he was selfish and the whole bit. The Champs, Smoots, Pierce and Davis etc were people that performed here and drafted by us yet they were shown the door for whatever reason. I'll say it again, I think the Skins bad mouth players to justify getting rid of them. Its been their way the past few years.

[TODD]

The comments made by Arrington in the article are new. The interview was set up last week and the comments came within the last few days. It's a shame LaVar put himself above the team, again, in allowing this to become an issue now. Some of the writing after LaVar's quotes is purposely inflammatory and that makes it worse, but, still, LaVar didn't have to set this interview up.

Art, I fail to see how these quotes are an issue for the team. Him going out of his way to talk to John Thompson on the radio about playing time and about favoritism on the part of the coaching staff is a team distraction and an issue because it involves playing time and how the games are played.

I feel that him saying that he would retire if the Redskins were to release him is not concerning to the team:

1. He is talking about something that could be an issue in the offseason, not something that could effect his presence DURING the season (ie: LaVar after the Denver/KC games, Terrell Owens' BS).

2. LaVar is not saying he WANTS out and that he is unhappy with the team... that would hurt the organizations morale and potentially cause others to be distracted as well. All that comes out of this is that if he were cut, he would retire. There's no reason to believe that his loyalty to the team is any lesser or that he'll play with any less passion as long as we are playing this season.

[skins4eva]

I'm not speaking of his contract. I'm talking abou the losing when I say that. I mean the orgainzation for example said Champ wasn't a team player. A man who never missed a game. Played at a pro bowl level. The Skins offer him a contract at the beginning of his last season but he opts to play out his last season. Big risk. He does so. It became clear that year the Skins weren't going to the playoffs. But Champ finishes the year out when he coulda played hurt and not risk being hurt. He knew he was gonna get paid with the Skins or someone. This guy never missed a game and people said he was selfish and the whole bit. The Champs, Smoots, Pierce and Davis etc were people that performed here and drafted by us yet they were shown the door for whatever reason. I'll say it again, I think the Skins bad mouth players to justify getting rid of them. Its been their way the past few years.

You're right. There's no question that the front office has had some serious miscues. I hated to see Champ Bailey go. But, part of that is the nature of the game and the league and the players in this day and age. The Darrell Green days are gone. Like the extinction of the dinosaurs. That breed is no more. Champ was definitely fed up with this franchinse--but not once, at least not until he left the Skins, did he bad mouth the franchise.

Now, I don't know who was right and who was wrong regarding the LA contract dispute...but, being a lawyer, I know this much: it was the Postons' responsibility to read the contract for their client and make sure everything was in order. That's law school 101 right there. The fact that they signed off on it would seem to give the impression that everything was in order. How do you not notice a missing clause for 6.5 million?

Nevertheless, I can't stand the way Lavar voices his opinions in the media. If he's not going to say anything positive, he should really keep his mouth shut. Can you imagine what kind of distraction this could create in the locker room, not just for the other players, but for lavar himself? It takes his focus off of the game and puts it on other stuff. But, that's the way it has always been with him.

[TheSteve]

Could it be possible that this is a story with mixed quotes from EARLIER in the year and NOW? That's what it reads like to me.

EDIT-Saw Art's post, nevermind.

[DCMONEY]

You're right. There's no question that the front office has had some serious miscues. I hated to see Champ Bailey go. But, part of that is the nature of the game and the league and the players in this day and age. The Darrell Green days are gone. Like the extinction of the dinosaurs. That breed is no more. Champ was definitely fed up with this franchinse--but not once, at least not until he left the Skins, did he bad mouth the franchise.

Now, I don't know who was right and who was wrong regarding the LA contract dispute...but, being a lawyer, I know this much: it was the Postons' responsibility to read the contract for their client and make sure everything was in order. That's law school 101 right there. The fact that they signed off on it would seem to give the impression that everything was in order. How do you not notice a missing clause for 6.5 million?

Nevertheless, I can't stand the way Lavar voices his opinions in the media. If he's not going to say anything positive, he should really keep his mouth shut. Can you imagine what kind of distraction this could create in the locker room, not just for the other players, but for lavar himself? It takes his focus off of the game and puts it on other stuff. But, that's the way it has always been with him.

I agree with you that his issue shoulda been with the Postons and not the team but I'm just saying I'm tired of players that have performed getting shown the door.

[Loyal2Washington]

People who are bashing Lavar should realize that some of us really and truly like the guy. We like the chances we have had to cheer him on as a part of our favorite team. Until he is officially off the roster I will continue to support him and hope that he makes my favorite team, the Redskins, better.

Everyone including the "Haters" and "Bashers" wants to see Lavar make big plays and help the team win. He is a Washington Redskin after all.

The problem is, is that regardless of when, where, and how these quotes were made, the qoutes were indeed made by Lavar. All of these quotes were made by a guy that shows a me first mentality and hasn't done anything on the field to back it up. It's fine if he's a me first type player, hell most pro athletes are, but like the old saying goes "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all".

Now if the argument is that the article is of poor timing, then that is obvious. The quotes cannot be agrued though, as Lavar did indeed speak those words, at some point in time.

:eaglesuck :gaintsuck :dallasuck

[DCMONEY]

Everyone including the "Haters" and "Bashers" wants to see Lavar make big plays and help the team win. He is a Washington Redskin after all.

The problem is, is that regardless of when, where, and how these quotes were made, the qoutes were indeed made by Lavar. All of these quotes were made by a guy that shows a me first mentality and hasn't done anything on the field to back it up. It's fine if he's a me first type player, hell most pro athletes are, but like the old saying goes "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all".

Now if the argument is that the article is of poor timing, then that is obvious. The quotes cannot be agrued though, as Lavar did indeed speak those words, at some point in time.

:eaglesuck :gaintsuck :dallasuck

If those words were spoken a while back then the Times should be ashamed of themselves. There was dialogue from both sides but everything was put to bed. If that article was put out well after everthing was over then the Times to me has become Smut Newspaper. Why print it now and not back then?

[skins4eva]

Everyone including the "Haters" and "Bashers" wants to see Lavar make big plays and help the team win. He is a Washington Redskin after all.

The problem is, is that regardless of when, where, and how these quotes were made, the qoutes were indeed made by Lavar. All of these quotes were made by a guy that shows a me first mentality and hasn't done anything on the field to back it up. It's fine if he's a me first type player, hell most pro athletes are, but like the old saying goes "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all".

Now if the argument is that the article is of poor timing, then that is obvious. The quotes cannot be agrued though, as Lavar did indeed speak those words, at some point in time.

:eaglesuck :gaintsuck :dallasuck

Agreed. Once again, Lavar has taken the spotlight needlessly and at a very bad time. You don't think his teamates who have been busting their butts all season but don't get as much recognition (Marcus Washington) resent it? I'm sure they do. It's human nature. But, truthfully, I blame the front office--Snyder signed him to a huge contract because he was the "face" of the team, but his performance on the field didn't justify it. That money would have been better spent keeping players like Pierce, Smoot, Bailey, etc.

[Fred Jones]

I like Lavar and have always enjoyed watching him play. However, Lavar has never lived up to the amount of money the skins are paying him. He has performed well and I would like to see him stay, but he is not worth the money we are paying him. He should be making less than a number of players that are producing more than he is. I also agree with the posters that commented about the timing of this article. This should have come out during the off-season.

[Nicealot]

If, by chance, LaVar does end up in San Diego, he'll have a problem with Merriman being the focus on defense instead of him. What a B**** he is...

[Loyal2Washington]

If those words were spoken a while back then the Times should be ashamed of themselves. There was dialogue from both sides but everything was put to bed. If that article was put out well after everthing was over then the Times to me has become Smut Newspaper. Why print it now and not back then?

When you speak to the press it can comeback to haunt you. Again regardless of when LA made these comments he did indeed make these comments. If the Times, which I wouldn't put it past them, used old and new quotes to fill their story then they have that right as long as LA is given credit as making the quote. Is it poor journalistic ability and timing, yes, but the fact is Lavar made these quotes.

I for one haven't read the article, so i'm not entirly sure how the reporter is using the quotes, as I do not read anything published by the Times or Post. So I'm basically arguing on the posts I have seen.

:eaglesuck :gaintsuck :dallasuck

[hiswadeness]

Not defending LA, but The times didn't need do print this a week before the biggest game of the season. Thank you for supporting your hometown team!

[CLBinMD]

Wow!! Get a few hours of sleep, focus on the world for a while and EVERYTHING goes to hell in a hand-basket.......Issues, issues, so MANY issues....where to begin???

1. Article - motivation, timing & veracity. Interesting to speculate on but a bit of a non-issue at this point, actually. It's out there now. Can't unring that bell. What happens NEXT is the most interesting part. Will LA be asked about the article directly? What will he say when/if he is? If LA backs-off / disavows some content - or, better yet, gets out in front of this by disavowing even BEFORE he's asked - it's a dead issue, move on. You'll have your answer on what this is all about. It will be that he tried to force this issue of his future by playing a reporter and had it back fire on him. OR, that a reporter played him to sell a few papers. Either way, it's nothing new under the sun.

IF NOT.....then the handwriting's clearly on the wall. Best you can hope for is that those involved will all behave as professionals while the NFL-dictated salary-cap soap opera plays out. If they don't, there's really not more you can do, except remember those that showed a lack of character when/if they blow back your way again. Again, it's nothing new under the sun.

2. Article - effect on preparation for the Eagles game. My $.02....minimal-to-none. Anybody WITHIN the organization who got knocked off their pins by this shouldn't be here anyway. Better to find that out now. Makes no difference what anyone OUTSIDE of the organization thinks.

3. LA - keep him or not. Clearly FEELINGS run high on both sides of the question. Seems like a thread per day on the topic anymore. At the end of the day, there's three things things to things to keep in mind:

a) What happens NEXT season is "pissing into the wind" until THIS season is complete. Be HERE......NOW. If you're a fan of the team, it's in the midst of its most successful season in quite a while. If your a fan of LA, he will still have some say in how far the team goes - and I mean that in a good way. Enjoy it, revel in it!!! If the last twelve years have taught anything, it should a "place in the sun" for the 'Skins is NOT a birth-right. However it ends, there will be plenty of time for this then.....especially if you don't follow any of the spring/summer sports. If you simply can't help yourself, see & c)

It ain't show-friends, it's show-business. Each side needs to take a rational look at their situation and decide what's best for them. Deciding to move on or retire has to be tough on the player. Making the decision to part with popular players has to be tough for the team. Some of the young bucks 'round these parts need to do a newspaper archive search on the circumstances surrounding the departures of Riggins, Theisman, Monk, Clark, Williams, etc., etc. It wasn't pretty at times. Sometimes organizations get it right, sometimes they get it wrong. That's life in the big leagues...

c) Football was/is/will be a TEAM game. LA can't open up holes for LA to run through; or, protect LA while he drops back to pass to LA. Likewise, LA can't take on blockers so LA can make tackles or rush the passer - making it easier for LA to cover or make interceptions. If one looks at the longest runs of success this organization has had, then it finds lasting success was built on taking guys of some ability (not necessarily the most talented player at ta position) and getting them to care about something more than themselves. If they now believe they have failed for so long because they got away from that model and now are trying to get back to it, THEN, you can look down the roster and see who will be here and who won't when they think they're finished. The challenge is different this time because you can't pay starter money to backups & role-players any more.

3. Heros & hype. Deep breath....here's where it gets a little ugly.....There's NOTHING wrong with being a fan of: a team, a player, a coach or all at the same time for as long as their interests converge. When their interests no longer merge, it's time to choose. All you can do is try & choose intelligently. From that perspective, all the arguments about the LA jerseys in the stands, etc. just cause me to smile. Who do you think put those jerseys there?? Couldn't possibly be a team that was struggling on the field, choking in debt, and DESPERATELY needed to keep butts in the seats could it?? Raise your hand if you had the SLIGHTEST idea who LA was PRIOR to his junior year in college.....BE HONEST!!!

Let me be clear.....I'm not absolving the organization. Whenever there is a highly-publicized dispute, it takes two to tango. But, when playing for high stakes, neither side is above attempting to use the media to further their ends. For those that enjoy consiracy theories, here's another - call it "Bill Cosby" syndrome. He did an old bit about parenting that went something like, "I brought you into this world. I can take you out. THEN, I can make another one that looks JUST LIKE YOU." LA's single biggest problem may be that he actually started to believe all the over-the-top positive spin the team put on him when they needed someone to be the face of the franchise.

My point is when you follow anyone or anything blindly, you set you set yourself up to be lead around by the nose by every little thing you see or hear. Exhibit A - all the folks in tears or unable to sleep because of this. It's FUN to be passionate about something (it may even be necessary on some psychological level) but do try & keep some perspective.

Cheers,

CLBinMD

[skinstzar]

When you speak to the press it can comeback to haunt you. Again regardless of when LA made these comments he did indeed make these comments. If the Times, which I wouldn't put it past them, used old and new quotes to fill their story then they have that right as long as LA is given credit as making the quote. Is it poor journalistic ability and timing, yes, but the fact is Lavar made these quotes.

I for one haven't read the article, so i'm not entirly sure how the reporter is using the quotes, as I do not read anything published by the Times or Post. So I'm basically arguing on the posts I have seen.

:eaglesuck :gaintsuck :dallasuck

Your missing the point. If these are old statements then they are 100% irrelevant. When you say something out of line you can atone for it by playing hard, playing within the system, stating that you want to be around, stating your support for a team first mentality. Lavar has done all of these things and more over the last two months. If these are old statements that are simply being rehashed, well then, they are completely and unequivically useless. Lots of people say lots of things. You can make up for it and there are such concepts as redemption and foregiveness. All of which most of this fanbase and this organization have done with Lavar. Let this play out then judge.

[ntotoro]

Your missing the point. If these are old statements then they are 100% irrelevant.

Art has stated, however, that they are not old statements. This is an interview set up last week by LaVar. That point becomes moot.

[skinstzar]

Art has stated, however, that they are not old statements. This is an interview set up last week by LaVar. That point becomes moot.

I trust Art, but until the team or Lavar makes a statement I can hold on to my slim hopes. As long as the team wins on Sunday, that is the biggest thing. I just want to have my cake and eat it too. That's all.

[Loyal2Washington]

Your missing the point. If these are old statements then they are 100% irrelevant. When you say something out of line you can atone for it by playing hard, playing within the system, stating that you want to be around, stating your support for a team first mentality. Lavar has done all of these things and more over the last two months. If these are old statements that are simply being rehashed, well then, they are completely and unequivically useless. Lots of people say lots of things. You can make up for it and there are such concepts as redemption and foregiveness. All of which most of this fanbase and this organization have done with Lavar. Let this play out then judge.

No you're missing the point, which is when you talk to the press they reserve they right to use the quotes again as they see fit, as long as the quote is used with proper identification and in proper context of the article. Just because the quotes are dated doesn't mean the have no use to the current situation, and to imply that dated quotes can never be used again is completely wrong.

Is it poor timing, if some of the quotes are old, then yes but is the Times wrong for using the quotes, no. Fogiveness and redemption are practices performed by us fans and the organization, not the press, or at least not on a regular basis.

:eaglesuck :gaintsuck :dallasuck

[GhostRider]

What makes me even more sick about this whole article is that Greg Williams went out of his way to support Lavar and even made him team captain a couple weeks ago. I always knew Lavar was a self absorbed drama queen but to try and grab the attention away from the team AGAIN is so TO-esque.

[Art]

I trust Art, but until the team or Lavar makes a statement I can hold on to my slim hopes. As long as the team wins on Sunday, that is the biggest thing. I just want to have my cake and eat it too. That's all.

The best we'll likely get is Arrington saying the writing accompanying his quotes made it seem worse than it was.

[icarpio]

I have a real problem with the skins organization and the way they treat their "true redskins". What makes football a great sport is that you grow attached to certain atheletes, the ones that you believe really care about the jersey they wear and the city they represent. You develop a psuedo relationship with these players because you see them everyday, in the paper, on the news, online etc. You begin to care for the players and you want to see those atheletes succeed just as much as you want the team to succeed. Imagine, for a second that, next year the redskins change the entire roster and win the superbowl, the sucess is watered down because you dont know the players, you dont know their personalities, you havent suffered through losing seasons with them, Its Not The Same. What made the first tenure with Gibbs amazing is that you had that psuedo relatinship with the players, the Art Monks, Gary Clarks, John Riggins etc. You loved the team as a whole: players, owner, coach, organization. Dont forget that Lavar is human too, he feels the team has screwed him and turned their back to him when he needed them, and its completely true. Some fans need to start understanding that to truly love a team is to love the coaches and players.

[skinstzar]

No you're missing the point, which is when you talk to the press they reserve they right to use the quotes again as they see fit, as long as the quote is used with proper identification and in proper context of the article. Just because the quotes are dated doesn't mean the have no use to the current situation, and to imply that dated quotes can never be used again is completely wrong.

Is it poor timing, if some of the quotes are old, then yes but is the Times wrong for using the quotes, no. Fogiveness and redemption are practices performed by us fans and the organization, not the press, or at least not on a regular basis.

:eaglesuck :gaintsuck :dallasuck

Again you don't get it. My point is simply that if the quotes are old then this article was written with an agenda, an agenda that involves derailing the Redskns. It is looking more and more like these quotes are new, and as I have said in all my other posts, if they are new, then Lavar is not who I thought he was.