jimster Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 The way I understand it, the tuck rule is that if the ball comes out while your arm is moving forward, it is an incomplete pass. The problem here is that Plummer's arm and hand came all the way back against his body when the ball came out, which would indicate that the ball was already "tucked", thus meaning the ball slipping out is a fumble. The famous Tom Brady play, he arm was moving forward in what could have been considered a passing motion. Plummers was not. .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 As I understand the rule, it is: Once the QB's arm starts foreward, then it's a pass untill he touches the ball to his chest. If that's the way the rule reads, then yes, that was a pass. (Although, if that's the way the rule still reads, then I'd still list it as the stupidest rule in all of sports.) However, if that's the way the rule reads, then I've got a few questions, if I'm Joe Gibbs: If that was a pass, then how come no whistle when the ball hit the ground? Why do I suspect that, if he'd picked up the ball, re-planted, and then completed a pass, then the slip wouldn't have been a pass? If that was a pass, then wasn't that intentional grounding in the end zone? It wasn't deflected, and I don't think there were any eligable receivers in the area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimster Posted October 10, 2005 Author Share Posted October 10, 2005 I agree. It seems to go the way of what the ref wants, which seems to always go against us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Plummer's other hand touched the football. By rule, that's a fumble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontanaSkins Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 As I understand the rule, it is: Once the QB's arm starts foreward, then it's a pass untill he touches the ball to his chest. If that's the way the rule reads, then yes, that was a pass. (Although, if that's the way the rule still reads, then I'd still list it as the stupidest rule in all of sports.) However, if that's the way the rule reads, then I've got a few questions, if I'm Joe Gibbs: If that was a pass, then how come no whistle when the ball hit the ground? Why do I suspect that, if he'd picked up the ball, re-planted, and then completed a pass, then the slip wouldn't have been a pass? If that was a pass, then wasn't that intentional grounding in the end zone? It wasn't deflected, and I don't think there were any eligable receivers in the area. A lot of ifs on the play. But from what I have seen this call was consistant to other calls I have seen over the years on the tuck rule. The whistle more than likley not blown because if it was the Redskins would not be allowed to challenge, so the Refs sometimes let the play go on. And on the intentional grounding I don't think it is call when a play when the ball slips out of the QBs hands. Only when he INTENTIONALLY throws the ball in the ground under pressure. You don't see it on clock stopping spikes either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Complety and absolutely right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jethrodsp Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Another question: If it was an incomplete pass, didnt the ball go backwards, in which case it is a live ball anyways. Should have been a safety and, as it turned out, the difference in the game. I feel cheated and we should be two games up in the division right now. But as it is, we need to go 7-5 the rest of the way to make the second season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimster Posted October 10, 2005 Author Share Posted October 10, 2005 Plummer's other hand touched the football. By rule, that's a fumble. I didn't even consider that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scskin Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Even if his arm was moving forward, the ball went BACKWARDS, making it a BACKWARDS lateral. Watch the tape. It should have been a safety, but it is still a loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 I didn't even consider that. I don't understand at all how that call was overturned... Or how Patten was called for PI, how that PI on Cooley WASN'T called... We got screwed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 I need to see it slower.. If the other hand knocked it out then its a fumble. *my eyes saw that* If the hand came all the way down without touching the other hand its a tuck. AND it was called on the field sooooo it need indisputable evidence.. someone please post the indisputable evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuji869 Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 I can symphonize with my friend the Raider Fan. Remember 1995 when Terrell Davis Fumbled on the 1 yard line and the called it a TD and Westbrook was called out of bounds on a TD Pass that he caught. We could have used instant replay in that game. It is funny the only coach we have on in Denver with was Marty and he has the worst luck in Denver. :whoknows: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayAction Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Well, we think we got screwed. Bronco fans are saying Thank God for challenges and instant replay. No question that it was a very very important call in the game. Skins got a few in their favor (or penalties not called). We have to win regardless of the rulings. Skins fought hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Well, we think we got screwed. Bronco fans are saying Thank God for challenges and instant replay. No question that it was a very very important call in the game. Skins got a few in their favor (or penalties not called). We have to win regardless of the rulings. Skins fought hard. Bull****. You can't win when you're getting called for bull**** and we can't get a call to save our lives... The Cooley PI for example... Yes, we scored anyways, but how was that a no call? Plummer's other hand touched the football, therefore that ball was fumbled. There was NO indisputable evidence stating otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
December90 Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Even if his arm was moving forward, the ball went BACKWARDS, making it a BACKWARDS lateral. Watch the tape. It should have been a safety, but it is still a loss. HOW CAN A BACKWARDS PASS EVER BE "INCOMPLETE"? The ball left his hand and went BACKWARDS if anything that is a lateral and thus still a live ball. The Replay Ref screwed the Skins on that one. Now we better start putting ourselves in a position where the refs can't screw us for the game. Lets put together some leads so big That no replay official can take one from us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 I always thought the tuck rule only applied if the QB was being hit, also once the ball goes completely down then it is a live ball again I will scream if we get the NFL apology :mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead Blocker Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 As I understand the rule, it is: Once the QB's arm starts foreward, then it's a pass untill he touches the ball to his chest. If that's the way the rule reads, then yes, that was a pass. (Although, if that's the way the rule still reads, then I'd still list it as the stupidest rule in all of sports.) However, if that's the way the rule reads, then I've got a few questions, if I'm Joe Gibbs: If that was a pass, then how come no whistle when the ball hit the ground? Why do I suspect that, if he'd picked up the ball, re-planted, and then completed a pass, then the slip wouldn't have been a pass? If that was a pass, then wasn't that intentional grounding in the end zone? It wasn't deflected, and I don't think there were any eligable receivers in the area. I hadn't thought about intentional grounding. There could not have been any eligable receivers in the area. But to add to your list, I would also question whether it was a backwards pass, since to ball went backwards into the endzone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Tuck rule - A player, typically the quarterback, drops the ball when his arm is moving forward to tuck the ball away. The action is considered an incomplete pass rather than a fumble because his arm is moving forward. A pump fake does not constitute a tuck, unless the ball comes out of the quarterback's hand before he returns to his passing mode. Once he returns and is set up to pass, any contact shaking the ball loose would be ruled a fumble. The tuck rule is simple: "Forward motion of the arm, even if the ball is not thrown, is ruled a forward pass, unless the quarterback is able to return to his original setup position." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzSkinsFan63 Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 If you replace the T in tuck with an F you get the real meaning of the rule... only Tagliabue's NFL wouldn't correct a bad rule years ago.. practically every other damn rule is open to ref interpretation except that on..LMAO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chomerics Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Plummer's other hand touched the football. By rule, that's a fumble. No, Plummers other hand has no bearing on the play. The rule is set up for exactly that type of play. If the quarterback pumps, but brings the ball town as if to tuck it, but fumbles it away, then it is an incomplete pass. It was the tuck rule, and it was ruled correctly, get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzmuda Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Apparently the tuck rule even applies AFTER the ball has been "tucked." Here Plummer has the ball in both hands before he loses it. You'd think that would be a fumble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzmuda Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 No, Plummers other hand has no bearing on the play. The rule is set up for exactly that type of play. If the quarterback pumps, but brings the ball town as if to tuck it, but fumbles it away, then it is an incomplete pass. It was the tuck rule, and it was ruled correctly, get over it. So what about fumble after a pump fake? The QB's arm moves forward and the other hand secures it, without the ball being tucked into the body but remaining in the 2 hands of the QB, then 2 seconds later the QB hit and loses the ball. According to your interpretation that's an incomplete pass as the other hand is irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 We did get utterly and completely horse **cked. No question. THe fact that we lost by only 2 points makes me a little less pissed. I am proud of this team for battling against the most hostile and made up crap I have ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 No, Plummers other hand has no bearing on the play. The rule is set up for exactly that type of play. If the quarterback pumps, but brings the ball town as if to tuck it, but fumbles it away, then it is an incomplete pass. It was the tuck rule, and it was ruled correctly, get over it. Uhhh... Hello? His hand touched the ball, therefore he had possession of the football, and it was no longer a part of a throwing motion... That was a fumble. Had his other hand not touched it, I may be inclined to agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hail2skins Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Bobzmuda, I hope the mods make you erase that picture, so I don't have to see the evidence in what is another B.S. rule of the NFL. :laugh: What a total bunch of crap......the Eagles getting obliterated (albeit by Dallas) is the only thing keeping this day from being a total loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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