Llevron Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 16 minutes ago, twa said: About as smart as blaming guns. You really dont want to get into what I think you have to offer lol 2 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said: Woke, CrossFit GOP black dude in baseball cap is my favorite social media trend. What's funny is hes saying now he didnt know what the NRA wanted to use this footage for and that it's out of context. Funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Renegade7 said: And in this case they used a gun...so... Did they have prayer? yin/yang..... I'll leave ya'll to figure out if what is used and not used matters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 1 minute ago, twa said: Did they have prayer? yin/yang..... I'll leave ya'll to figure out if what is used and not used matters God doesn't act on every prayer, you know that, and I'm sure there were people in that school praying they wouldn't die and did anyway. If you goal is to toy with us, let it go. Any other reason, and you should know better. Matthew 4:6-7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 21 minutes ago, Llevron said: You really dont want to get into what I think you have to offer lol I have a bad feeling he's about to go there, @twa, don't do it, dude, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 22 minutes ago, Llevron said: You really dont want to get into what I think you have to offer lol Probably about as productive as this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koala Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 5 hours ago, twa said: Depends on if/how the media contributes to the mass murder dynamic. I think making them a black hole rather than plastering their face all over would do more than eliminating violent movies ect. I completely agree with you. Giving these shooters the notoriety and fame they seek, is as counterproductive as giving terrorists the platform they seek. In both cases, simply not reporting any details about the perpetrators probably takes way the majority of their motivation for commiting these acts. And I fail to see how all the information about these perps, from Klebold to this joker, has ever yielded any benefits or useful insights to stop later shootings. Honestly, the media's coverage in all these events has more of a voyeuristic/pornographic, and political agenda-fitting, feel to it than a academic/enlightening feel to it. As far as Hollywood's part in this -- I just dont really buy it. First of all, our society is NOT a reflection of Hollywood; Hollywood is a reflection of our society. Secondly, if Hollywood movies can motivate someone to violence, can you name a single instance in which you or any stable person you know was motivated to violence by a movie? And finally, consider this: many other countries see the exact same Hollywood movies as we do and yet dont have this problem we do, even those with access to guns (like Canada). I remain unconvinced that a stable, normal person can be motivated to violence by fiction. Now, I suppose an unstable or psychologically disturbed person may be influenced by movies, but these people can be influenced by many things that normal people are not influenced by -- the fundamental problem is their psychology, not the things that influence it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 51 minutes ago, twa said: About as smart as blaming guns. twa does have a point. We shouldn't blame guns for school shootings any more than we should blame planes for 9/11. The people who refuse to do anything to make it harder for school shooters (ya know, like how we made it harder for terrorists to fly into our buildings) definitely deserve some blame though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 I think it can desensitize us to a degree, but agree it is not a primary driver. People divorcing themselves from reality can be problematic if they go the violent route though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 There isn’t 1 or 2 or 3 things that we can do to make this better. This incident was done with a shotgun and pistol, so banning ar15s obviously doesn’t do anything other than change the weapons used. People can spare me the “less people killed” argument because it’s completely hypothetical and only serves to reduce how powerful all firearms are, as such it is *at best* counter productive to the idea of working towards resolving this crisis. We we need a complete culture shift. Movies, music, tv, video games, mental health, guns (including ease of access, storage, etc), and how we treat each other and how we value life. This is not something that just happened one day. It’s been a long and steady burn to get to where we are, and it’s required a lot of people to ignore it or play politics with it to get to this point. On some level majority of us have been a part of it, myself included, and I don’t think it’s malicious intent - quite the opposite. I think most of us do care, we’ve just been wrong in the sheer size of the required solution. We need to stop analyzing every idea as not being good enough because it isn’t complete enough, or because you think there is a better idea. Like our drug problem, the solution will have to be as complex as the problem. We need to start trying things and seeing what does and doesn’t work. We need a long term commitment to a goal and start making serious cultural changes toward that goal. We need to realize that the best path forward might be a reduction in these events over a long period - not a sudden stop to them, as a sudden stop likely isn’t possible. I feel like... I get put in these meetings were people are discussing what the goals were, what the result actually was, and how they got to the point where the result differs widely from the original goal. And I’m supposed to be an adviser or subject matter expert to facilitate getting from current state to actual, original goal. And I look around the room and everyone is so hung up on a specific perspective/ide (whether it’s because that’s all they know, or because they’re biased, ignorant, incompetent, or hatred/alliegance towards a person or thing, or whatever) that it’s quite obvious why these people wound up where they were and that they’re only capable of winding up in such a way. I feel like I’m sitting in one of those meetings with this subject. It’s hearbreaking because kids are dying while adults and supposed leaders fail to fulfil their supposed roles in our society. We are failing to protect our children while they are in school. Seems like a pretty basic requirement of a first world country. I think people on all ends of the discussion have good ideas. It’s a god damned shame they can’t see it the same way, and give their fellow citizens a chance to help. Instead everyone seens locked on one on one idea. Everyone sees the gridlock. No one seems to be capable of getting past it. It’s a remarkable example of how pathetic and inept we have become. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 6 minutes ago, Koala said: Giving these shooters the notoriety and fame they seek, is as counterproductive as giving terrorists the platform they seek. In a perfect world, sure, but now if the media doesn't get the motive out for people to see someone else will make one up for them and pedal it for their cause. The rules are changing as we speak on this one. 6 minutes ago, Koala said: the fundamental problem is their psychology, not the things that influence it. Do you understand what psychology is? Like step 1 is trying to figure out what influences lead to someone thinking the way they think. Desensitization matters, no one is trying to be neo from the matrix, that's not what this is about, and I can tell from this answer you didn't read the article posted about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 I have said multiple times that I actually dont disagree that the movies play a part. I just think its horse **** to compare it to the availability of guns. That's it that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, Llevron said: I have said multiple times that I actually dont disagree that the movies play a part. I just think its horse **** to compare it to the availability of guns. That's it that's all. Availability certainly matters, just like in suicides, guns are chosen many times because they are available and effective. On the other hand these that plan killings for months or longer are likely to find a way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 9 minutes ago, tshile said: I think people on all ends of the discussion have good ideas. It’s a god damned shame they can’t see it the same way, and give their fellow citizens a chance to help. Instead everyone seens locked on one on one idea. Everyone sees the gridlock. No one seems to be capable of getting past it. It’s a remarkable example of how pathetic and inept we have become. I get the frustration, but generalities don't help in this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/18/us/dimitrios-pagourtzis-gunman-texas-shooting.html Until someone can show a definitive mental health issue with this kid, I don't want to hear that as "we missed another one". We keep defaulting to that, not everyone who kills someone has a mental disorder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 5 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/18/us/dimitrios-pagourtzis-gunman-texas-shooting.html Until someone can show a definitive mental health issue with this kid, I don't want to hear that as "we missed another one". We keep defaulting to that, not everyone who kills someone has a mental disorder. If they didn't need killing I would say you are mistaken, most certainly in the planned cases. From what I've seen this one exhibited few signs . I would like his medical history though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 1 minute ago, twa said: If they didn't need killing I would say you are mistaken, most certainly in the planned cases. From what I've seen this one exhibited few signs . I would like his medical history though. These mass shooters all need killing, but that's just my opinion. That's what I'm trying to say, though, a lot of these people the mental health history or current state would be out by now. He might not even have one. CTE? He did play football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 I was talking about the victims....I concur on the murderers. CTE, steroids and a host of other things are possible factors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 Or he's just an asshole that wouldn't take no for an answer. We're wasting time on the why here, he got in with the guns and shot one of the guys responsible for protecting those kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 I think we should test him for CTE tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 7 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: Or he's just an asshole that wouldn't take no for an answer. We're wasting time on the why here, he got in with the guns and shot one of the guys responsible for protecting those kids. If it was just that why the hope for others to tell his story? The use of inert explosive devices and targeting others seems to say it was more than just can't handle no for a answer. Why matters, but prevention is certainly more productive since folk always got a why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 20 minutes ago, twa said: If it was just that why the hope for others to tell his story? The use of inert explosive devices and targeting others seems to say it was more than just can't handle no for a answer. Why matters, but prevention is certainly more productive since folk always got a why. That is more then fair. We may never find a why other then what the shooter said. Like I mentioned, not everyone that kills someone has a mental disorder, its just seems like that makes sense because the environment doesn't make sense for anything else. People walking the inner cities and overseas with bodies on they name right now and they like that because that's what they choose to do. Circumstance maybe lead to that, but nothing a pill can fix. Not all mental disorders are created equal either, some are combined with a certain level of trauma that leads to violence, not the other way around. People throw around stuff like Bipolar and it just makes my life harder then it already is. I had a terrible reaction to a medication a couple years ago and called 911 telling them what was happening and needed something to counter act it and needed to be somewhere so I wouldn't hurt myself. You know who Portsmouth sent? Not an ambulance, they sent the police. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadySkinsFan Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 He was cognizant of what he was doing, said he didn't kill people he liked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted May 21, 2018 Share Posted May 21, 2018 Santa fe approved arming teachers months ago, bogged down in setting requirements fwih. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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