twa Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, Llevron said: My bad. What I'm saying is what happens after we get violence out of media entirely? Or remove guns from media completely? What will that accomplish if we dont make guns any harder to get? There is nothing to gained if we dont cut off access to the weapons. Right? Depends on if/how the media contributes to the mass murder dynamic. I think making them a black hole rather than plastering their face all over would do more than eliminating violent movies ect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Llevron said: My bad. What I'm saying is what happens after we get violence out of media entirely? Or remove guns from media completely? What will that accomplish if we dont make guns any harder to get? There is nothing to gained if we dont cut off access to the weapons. Right? It's all good, and I agree, but I don't believe anyone is saying that we should do one and not the other, even @Spaceman Spiff (at least that's not how I'm reading what he's saying). This an extremely complex problem, and we've all had these discussions with each other so many times that I don't get how it keeps looking like we're coming at it from scratch on problems and solutions when talking to each other. The NRA wants us to keep cannibalizing each other with the whole "this solution by itself won't work, this solution by itself won't work, this solution by itself won't work". If we give it to them, they keep winning. I'm hoping somewhere in the article the discussion is had about how the media not only realizes they are part of the problem, but that they are at least thinking about someway to help (which I haven't seen so far). It looks like Hollywood's way of helping is individuals asking for better gun control measures. I can't expect Hollywood to look at the demand for gun violence in the media they produce and try to reign it back with possibility of it costing them money. That's a problem with no clear solution, but it is a problem. 7 minutes ago, twa said: Depends on if/how the media contributes to the mass murder dynamic. Damn near everything is contributing to the mass murder dynamic when you really try to roll it out and look at it. But not all problems or solutions are created equal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 Well, there is one thing we can do by itself right now to help fix this. But if the point isn't that violence in media isn't actually equal in harm caused to our society to the availability than guns then we dont have anything to argue. But it was my understanding that is exactly what his point is and that **** is asinine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techboy Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 Yeah... this wasn't supposed to go here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 9 minutes ago, Llevron said: Well, there is one thing we can do by itself right now to help fix this. But if the point isn't that violence in media isn't actually equal in harm caused to our society to the availability than guns then we dont have anything to argue. But it was my understanding that is exactly what his point is and that **** is asinine. I wouldn't go so far as to say equal, but in the article it talks about how the number of guns that have appeared in PG-13 movies has tripled since 1985. Is that as bad as trying to stop control measures? Absolutely not. But Hollywood is totally feeding the monster that is our obsessions with gun violence. If anything its playing a part in the desensitization of our country towards gun violence, which I believe is a huge factor into why this doesn't phase some of these killers when they do it. It's become so normal that asking what would drive someone to do that is almost the wrong question now. This cat supposedly got rejected by a female, me at that age I'm on to the next, this guy killed her. This mass shooting epidemic isn't one of those problems that we can just bulldoze part of the house, its poured into the very foundation of our country. There are too many problems linked to this specific issue that we won't be able to solve, but enough that we can start with and make a huge difference. In IT, I sometimes run into situations where I find a problem and then the solution has nothing to do with explaining why it broke in the first place (vendor may be so embarrased, they won't put the cause in the release notes, Apple is like that), it doesn't matter, upgrade to the latest version and you won't see that specific problem anymore (if I see other problems, that's a different conversation that needs to be separated by the fact I'm applying this specific fix for this specific problem). There's no silver bullet, I know there's going to be mulitple problems, some related, some even caused by another, but I have to treat from a modular standpoint, because if I start swinging, I could make it worse then it was when I started (you have an IT background, so I know you know what I'm talking about). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 46 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: Damn near everything is contributing to the mass murder dynamic when you really try to roll it out and look at it. But not all problems or solutions are created equal. Certainly not equal, nor equally easily addressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 1 minute ago, twa said: Certainly not equal, nor equally easily addressed. Agreed. Getting rid of bullying sounds nice, but its never going to happen. We have finite resources, they need to go towards stopping the "what" because the "why" is incredibly more complex and will be considerably harder if not impossible compared to stuff like background checks and metal detectors in school. I try to bring up that I troubleshoot computer systems for a living to add context to my understanding that not every problem can be "solved". I deal with terms like "vulnerability", "exploit", and "risk management" all the time. It will never be perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 51 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: I wouldn't go so far as to say equal, but in the article it talks about how the number of guns that have appeared in PG-13 movies has tripled since 1985. Is that as bad as trying to stop control measures? Absolutely not. Which was exactly my point. I never argued that there wasnt an effect. Of course there is. I even said that before anything else. It's not even. Period. It's not even close to an even comparison. It should not be lost on anyone that none of these dudes are saying anything like John Wick or Deadpool inspired them. I bet you can find alot more similarities between them than the movies they watch. 43 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: I deal with terms like "vulnerability", "exploit", and "risk management" all the time. It will never be perfect. Then you can easily understand that our second amendment rights as they stand are an extreme risk to society compared to our entertainment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 5 minutes ago, Llevron said: Which was exactly my point. I never argued that there wasnt an effect. Of course there is. I even said that before anything else. It's not even. Period. It's not even close to an even comparison. It should not be lost on anyone that none of these dudes are saying anything like John Wick or Deadpool inspired them. I bet you can find alot more similarities between them than the movies they watch. I'm somewhere between you and Spaceman on this one. I don't think it's equal and I don't think it's nowhere close. Like I said from the beginning, going after gun culture is biting off more then one can chew. It's not about saying "I want to be John Wick", it's seeing the real life imitation of gun violence so much that the shock is gone now in 2018. That does matter, but the damage is already done, imo. Hollywood needs to soul search instead of continuing at this pace, but they won't, and trying to force them to could be unconstitutional (aka, not worth it). 5 minutes ago, Llevron said: Then you can easily understand that our second amendment rights as they stand are an extreme risk to society compared to our entertainment. They are, but going after either head-on is a risk in and of itself, that I'm sure you understand as well. We need to be smart and efficient on this issue, but it's really hard with all the emotions involved. That clip of the girl being asked if she thought this couldn't happen in her school and her saying "no" is this issue in a nutshell right now. People making fake profiles to make it seem he's a Hillary support takes it home. This is harder then the war on terror because at least in that case we can drop bombs on them overseas. These mf'rs are already here with no common ideology other then "everyone else is doing it, why not me?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 This is clearly all the fault of the democrats who block every attempt at mental health reform because they are bought and paid for by the psychologist lobby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted May 20, 2018 Author Share Posted May 20, 2018 3 hours ago, MEANDWARF said: Wow, thank you for allowing me to have this opinion and posting it. I appreciate you taking the time you took quoting my post. And I deeply appreciate your post being kind in your response. Rumors has it that Extremeskins is a bully and gun free zone. How's that for critical thinking. Your welcome. I suspect that even you know that blaming mass murder of children on the lack of school prayer is a repugnant belief. Hence you were too timid to openly state it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 7 minutes ago, LD0506 said: That's too easy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 8 hours ago, MEANDWARF said: I believe we as a society are afraid to admit what is the real reason why these tragic events happen. June 25, 1962 Wow, ok... You seem like a very nice person but this is dangerously off base. Prayer wouldn't help to stop school shootings any more than it has helped to stop church shootings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said: Wow, ok... You seem to be a very nice person but this is dangerously off base. Took me some time to figure out what ya'll were talking about. Yikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 Pray or die!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 Yea that's smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 46 minutes ago, Llevron said: Yea that's smart. About as smart as blaming guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, twa said: About as smart as blaming guns. I forget you could kill people with prayers, thanks for reminding me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: I forget you could kill people with prayers, thanks for reminding me. and w/o them or guns....de nada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, twa said: and w/o them or guns....de nada And in this case they used a gun...so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted May 20, 2018 Share Posted May 20, 2018 Woke, CrossFit GOP black dude in baseball cap is my favorite social media trend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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