Bloomberg:Early Results in Iraq Election Favor Populist Cleric Al-Sadr

[Riggo-toni]

https://news.google.com/news/amp?caurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bloomberg.com%2Fnews%2Farticles%2F2018-05-14%2Fshiite-cleric-sadr-leads-in-iraq-s-initial-election-results#pt0-699539

 

Early Results in Iraq Election Favor Populist Cleric Al-Sadr

 

 As the results stand, al-Sadr's bloc will be able to take a leading role in the political horse-trading to find a compromise candidate. Because al-Sadr did not run for a seat, he cannot become prime minister, but his deputies in parliament are expected to follow his directives.

Al-Sadr commands the devotion of millions of Iraqis who have sent their sons and husbands to fight for his militia from the early days of the U.S. occupation.

"We are joyous," said Jaafar Abdeljaleed, 28, who added that his father was killed fighting U.S.-led forces in 2003. "Sayyid Muqtada loves the nation, and so do I."

The election came as Iraq is struggling to bring down soaring unemployment and reintegrate its disenfranchised Sunni minority. More than 2 million people are displaced by war, most of them Sunnis.

Also at issue is how to integrate the country's vast and predominantly Shiite militia structure into the security forces. The militias, known collectively as the Hashd Shaabi, are key conduit of influence for Iran into Iraq and Syria, where Tehran has sent many of them to fight.

 

 

This is bad news on so many levels. Whatever corruption exists under Abadi, he is still a rare candidate who has been able to win back Sunnis and Kurds. Sadr may be stepping off gus theocratic high horse to bring more secular groups into his coalition, but they are all uber-Shiite sectarians. Whatever candidate he puts forth as PM is going to be much more like Maliki than Abadi, and the brief post-ISIL respite from sectarian violence will be short-lived, with a new Sunni resurgence under a different banner.

Look for Bin Laden's son to re-form Al Quaeda and bring the disparate factions back together.

[visionary]

I don’t trust Sadr and he’s obviously been pretty bad to the US in the past.  

 

Interestingly enough though he has been pushing an anti-Iran control, anti-corruption movement the past few years and was very critical of Iraq and Iran’s role in Syria.  He and his protest movements were also one of the main factors behind Maliki’s loss of power and eventual replacement with Abadi.

 

[Bang]

Oh cool. Square one.

Nice to see you again.

 

~Bang

[dyst]

5 minutes ago, visionary said:

I don’t trust Sadr and he’s obviously been pretty bad to the US in the past.  

I haven't followed up on Iraq in a long while. Did he attack the US recently? 

[visionary]

3 minutes ago, dyst said:

I haven't followed up on Iraq in a long while. Did he attack the US recently? 

I meant years ago.  I don’t think he has recently, though we’ve probably been at cross purposes at times.  But we could say the same of most states and groups in the Middle East.

[zoony]

Middle Eastern countries cant handle democracy.  At every turn they make it clear that brutal dictatorships and religous autocracies are the preferred way of life

[visionary]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dyst]

31 minutes ago, visionary said:

I meant years ago.  I don’t think he has recently, though we’ve probably been at cross purposes at times.  But we could say the same of most states and groups in the Middle East.

Wait, when did he attack the US? That is news to me for sure.

[Bang]

36 minutes ago, visionary said:

I meant years ago.  I don’t think he has recently, though we’ve probably been at cross purposes at times.  But we could say the same of most states and groups in the Middle East.

Wasn't it his forces in Fallujah?

I know he's been a firebrand.

 

~Bang

[visionary]

9 minutes ago, dyst said:

Wait, when did he attack the US? That is news to me for sure.

US troops in Iraq, after Saddam fell.

 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muqtada_al-Sadr

[FanboyOf91]

2 minutes ago, Bang said:

Wasn't it his forces in Fallujah?

I know he's been a firebrand.

 

~Bang

Sadr City.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Sadr_City

 

Still can't believe he's only in his forties. It seems like OIF was a lifetime ago.

[Springfield]

Glad we sent our sons and daughters to die for THIS. 

 

( sarcasm)

[dyst]

46 minutes ago, zoony said:

Middle Eastern countries cant handle democracy.  At every turn they make it clear that brutal dictatorships and religous autocracies are the preferred way of life

Unfortunately, to an extent you are correct. Over the years the people there have been brainwashed into thinking it is the best way of life. However, there are a few instances where that was not  always the case. Afghanistan and Iran (just a couple examples) were well on their way to having a modern society until an outside force decided to meddle in their affairs. Russia in Afghanistan and America in Iran. 

 

Russia invaded Afghanistan, wrecked havoc, and helped place a puppet regime there, which the people rejected. Years of destruction and war killed that society. It lead to a civil war as groups fought to gain control. Now you're talking 40 straight years of constant war with no rest. That's an entire generation of kids that were born and raised in poverty. They know nothing but war and death all because Russia decided to grace Afghanistan with their interpretation of freedom.

 

Iran similarly had a semi-moderate nation with very good ties to the US. Unfortunately in the 50s, their democratically elected leader wanted to privatize Iranian oil, which was a big no-no for the Brits and America. Together the two, helped over throw the government and install a puppet regime which the citizens didn't take too kindly to. Some thirty years later as frustrations grew, you had the 1979 revolution. There was also the US aiding Saddam when Iraq invaded Iran, not to mention the US military shooting down Iranian Air Flight 655 that killed score of citizens. 

 

Over time as decades pass, people forget what these countries were like and what caused their downward fall instead we tend to only remember the narrative that is forced on us.

 

28 minutes ago, visionary said:

US troops in Iraq, after Saddam fell.

 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muqtada_al-Sadr

Oh, I thought you meant he attacked the US on American soil. If as an Iraqi, he was defending his nation, I don't necessarily consider that an attack. I get what you are saying though.

[Mr. Sinister]

This will never end, will it?

[TradeTheBeal!]

21 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

This will never end, will it?

 

Peace sells, but who’s buying?

[Riggo-toni]

1 hour ago, Bang said:

Wasn't it his forces in Fallujah?

I know he's been a firebrand.

 

~Bang

Fallujah was the Sunni fundamentalist stronghold.  Sadr's father was a prominent Shiite cleric executed by Saddam in the 90s. Moqtada has weak religious credentials beyond family ties, but is suspected of involvement in the murder of a competing cleric shortly after the fall of Saddam. He led a militia against US forces twice, and each time W. let him surrender rather than face potential backlash for trying to wipe out his Shiite followers. He was in exile in Iran for several years. Despite his rhetoric, I suspect he's still somewhat of an Iranian stooge, much like W's favorite Iraqi exile con man Ahmad Chalabi was.

[Riggo-toni]

2 hours ago, zoony said:

Middle Eastern countries cant handle democracy.  At every turn they make it clear that brutal dictatorships and religous autocracies are the preferred way of life

The problem stems largely from arbitrary borders drawn up by colonial powers with no consideration of ethnic and/or sectarian divisions.

After a brief civil.war, the Kurds proved they could embrace tolerance, women's rights and democracy, but we failed to properly arm them when the threat of ISIL emerged, and Trump essentially handed them over to Iranian led forces...all because we don't want to upset Turkey - a country now run by an Islamofascist.

If we had broken up Iraq into 3 countries the way we allowed Yugoslavia or the USSR to dissolve, there might be hope for the future.

 

Cyrenaica and Tripolitania have been separate political entities for most of the last 3 millennia, but the Brits urged the Senussi dynasty to take control of the west and recreate Mussolini's bast@rd nation of Libya so that the nation's oil supply would be in the hands of a friendly regime.

[Bozo the kKklown]

“You reap what you sow.”

 

Words the US has never followed.

[zoony]

19 minutes ago, Riggo-toni said:

The problem stems largely from arbitrary borders drawn up by colonial powers with no consideration of ethnic and/or sectarian divisions.

After a brief civil.war, the Kurds proved they could embrace tolerance, women's rights and democracy, but we failed to properly arm them when the threat of ISIL emerged, and Trump essentially handed them over to Iranian led forces...all because we don't want to upset Turkey - a country now run by an Islamofascist.

 

I disagree, though not about the Kurds.   we`ve seen the arab spring and its descent straight back into tyranny... which we now can say was never even about freedom per say, it was more about fundamentalism.  Turkey with its Muslim radicalization has descended into tyranny as well.  Syria, Iran, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Libya... where we have seen brief glimpses of democracy, the population votes for more tyranny.

 

That leaves Jordan and Israel as the beacons for freedom... a monarchy and a `democracy` the same way south africa was.

 

The narrative to blame western colonial powers is a cop at best, as it should be pointed out that the ottoman empire was a monarchy

 

Democracy will never work in the middle east, because they do not respect basic human rights, nor do they respect the rights of women, nor do they respect religous freedom.  They love dictators and tyranny, and they love living in 14th century ****holes.  Why do we know this?  They vote for it at every turn.  Let them have it

3 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

“You reap what you sow.”

 

Words the US has never followed.

 

This doesnt even make sense

[Bozo the kKklown]

4 minutes ago, zoony said:

This doesnt even make sense

Of course it doesnt

[Mr. Sinister]

1 hour ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 

Peace sells, but who’s buying?

 

No one, really. Even if we somehow magically get this right, someday, I shudder to think where all this war big business bonanza stuff goes. Probably just try to **** over someone else. Biggest collective sin of the 20th century.

 

 

[visionary]

2 hours ago, zoony said:

 

I disagree, though not about the Kurds.   we`ve seen the arab spring and its descent straight back into tyranny... which we now can say was never even about freedom per say, it was more about fundamentalism.  Turkey with its Muslim radicalization has descended into tyranny as well.  Syria, Iran, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Libya... where we have seen brief glimpses of democracy, the population votes for more tyranny.

 

That leaves Jordan and Israel as the beacons for freedom... a monarchy and a `democracy` the same way south africa was.

 

The narrative to blame western colonial powers is a cop at best, as it should be pointed out that the ottoman empire was a monarchy

 

Democracy will never work in the middle east, because they do not respect basic human rights, nor do they respect the rights of women, nor do they respect religous freedom.  They love dictators and tyranny, and they love living in 14th century ****holes.  Why do we know this?  They vote for it at every turn.  Let them have it

This is the kind of arrogant ignorant and uninformed ethnocentric bull**** people in and from other countries hate about us.  Good job.  Disgusting but not surprising.

[tshile]

27 minutes ago, visionary said:

This is the kind of arrogant ignorant and uninformed ethnocentric bull**** people in and from other countries hate about us.  Good job.  Disgusting but not surprising.

 

It has enough truth to it. Yes, the Russians and us decided to screw everything up. The fundamentalist view grew out of the communist takeover. 

 

Yeah the Russians and us lit the fuse but they don’t seem too intent on fixing it themselves. The last 16 years and what do we have to show for it? An “almost” in afghanistan, and essentially a failure in Iraq. No doubt a failure in Libya. Turkey is going backwards. Egypt is teetering. 

 

The only country we’ve done well with is Saudi Arabia and that came at the price of helping them conduct ethnic cleansing in Yemen. We’re giving support to what should be war crimes. 

 

where is less civilied? Tribal regions of Africa, and? 

 

Theres good people in the Middle East. Just not enough of them to fight for a better place. 

 

Unless someone thinks they’re down for redrawing everything, the cause is moot (it’s hella interesting, but it doesn’t really help) The point is there seems to be no solution. 

[visionary]

11 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

It has enough truth to it. Yes, the Russians and us decided to screw everything up. The fundamentalist view grew out of the communist takeover. 

 

Yeah the Russians and us lit the fuse but they don’t seem too intent on fixing it themselves. The last 16 years and what do we have to show for it? An “almost” in afghanistan, and essentially a failure in Iraq. No doubt a failure in Libya. Turkey is going backwards. Egypt is teetering. 

 

The only country we’ve done well with is Saudi Arabia and that came at the price of helping them conduct ethnic cleansing in Yemen. We’re giving support to what should be war crimes. 

 

where is less civilied? Tribal regions of Africa, and? 

 

Theres good people in the Middle East. Just not enough of them to fight for a better place. 

 

Unless someone thinks they’re down for redrawing everything, the cause is moot (it’s hella interesting, but it doesn’t really help) The point is there seems to be no solution. 

There's a difference between discussing the results and Zoony's insulting racist rants that **** upon the efforts of thousands of dead and imprisoned and exiled around the world.

[No Excuses]

There really is no effective way of truly knowing how much we and other Western powers have contributed to the chaos in the ME. But it’s really safe to say that it’s substantial. 

 

We just undertook a major policy shift with the Jerusalem embassy opening for no good reason except to satisfy the needs of evangelicals and their doomsday fantasies.