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Welcome to the Washington Redskins Da'Ron Payne DT Alabama

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On 5/17/2018 at 8:44 PM, bakedtater1 said:

That clip of payne in high school is.. enjoyable to watch..I CANT WAIT!!..I can...quitely    start to     hear the ........chants.   WE WANT DALLAS!! WE WANT DALLAS!! we goin gerbal/squirrel/which ever rodent Zeke represents huntin..

I wouldn't say Zeke is like a squirrel.  A squirrel is more representative of a scat back.  Twitchy, hyper, super quick, and super shifty.  Zeke is more like a big old rat chewing through the wall destroying all your electrical wiring and leaving droppings (would-be tacklers) in his wake.:) 

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2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

And look at how tight their defense lined up for that play up the middle right down to the MLBs, yet the Vikings spring for a big run right up the gut.  Talk about demoralizing

 

Is that McGee up front at LDE?  That's pathetic.  Especially since the Vikings' OL ranked behind our perpetually banged up OL in PFF's end of season rankings.

2 minutes ago, cakmoney61 said:

I wouldn't say Zeke is like a squirrel.  A squirrel is more representative of a scat back.  Twitchy, hyper, super quick, and super shifty.  Zeke is more like a big old rat chewing through the wall destroying all your electrical wiring and leaving droppings (would-be tacklers) in his wake.:) 

 

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2 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Is that McGee up front at LDE?  That's pathetic.  Especially since the Vikings' OL ranked behind our perpetually banged up OL in PFF's end of season rankings.

 

I think that was McClain.  McGee usually played on the right.  McClain played a lot of left after Allen got hurt.  We are looking at the play from the offense's left but on the defense's side you flip that around so Keenum's left is the defense's right. 

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On 5/17/2018 at 8:35 PM, bakedtater1 said:

Good lord Payne is a big man...young man..but big..

Right...310 lbs and looks like 12% body fat...crazy

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think that was McClain.  McGee usually played on the right.  McClain played a lot of left after Allen got hurt.  We are looking at the play from the offense's left but on the defense's side you flip that around so Keenum's left is the defense's right. 

 

To me, when I zoom in on the pictures, it looks like #97 (McClain) is lined up opposite #62, which would make him RDE, and #92 (McGee) is lined up opposite #69, which would make him LDE. *Shrugs*

 

Doesn't really matter though, all three of them (including Hood) got bullied on the play from what I can see.

Edited by HTTRDynasty
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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

To me, when I zoom in on the pictures, it looks like #97 (McClain) is lined up opposite #62, which would make him RDE, and #92 (McGee) is lined up opposite #69, which would make him LDE. *Shrugs*

 

Doesn't really matter though, all three of them (including Hood) got bullied on the play from what I can see.

 

I just watched it closely, McClain was playing on the right from the defensive's point of view. Yeah versus 62.  But on the left from the offenses point of view.   Maybe i am wrong but I though you label the position from the vantage point of where you are playing from.  So for example Trent is the left tackle but is facing the opponent's right-DE.

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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Posted (edited)

Goal line stand.  2nd and 1.  Playing tight again up the middle.

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Ziggy Hood who if I recall was PFF's lowest ranked nose against the run.  Lines up playing 0 or maybe its 1, hard to tell but its right up the gut.  He moves some to his left (the offenses right) but he ultimately gets swallowed there.  I circle where he is below.  That opens up that gap.  The run back ends up scoring right up the middle.

 

 

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Edited by Skinsinparadise
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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

My take on Payne is complex.  I like but don't love the player. I don't see him as this monster-immovable nose who just eats up the A gap all the time.  My criticism isn't hey the dude is a monster run stopper but can he rush the passer?  I don't think he's a monster run stopper just yet -- a good one though.  And Clinton Portis is much harsher on that point he goes when he was watching the top backs to grade them, he saw Payne handled way too much for his liking -- he cited one of the Arkansas games where Ragnow handled him among others.  Don't love the pick, don't hate it either.  But I do think he will vastly improve the middle of the defense.  And maybe he does develop into a Snacks Harrison type with Tomsula's guidance.   I was just rewatching the Vikings/Redskins.  The Vikings 2nd play.   Hood playing 1 technique, McClain 3.   The Vikings O line just shove and handle McClain and Hood and in the process part the seas up the middle for a big run.  I'd gather with Allen back in the lineup and Payne, this will be rare.

 

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Ragnow was rated the Razorbacks best offensive player vs Alabama 2 years in a row, but in 2016, with Johnathan Allen leading the charge, Arkansas had far more success moving the ball. Allen didnt grade out particularly well & Payne finished that game with more plays in the backfield.

 

The 2017 game is one Ive heard people use against Payne but thats misleading to me. Arkansas ran for nothing, they didnt score vs the starters, & Bama was blowing them out from very early through the end. Ragnow opened up holes that led to no points or yards, on Bamas homecoming, the week after a big game vs AM & 2 games prior to the LSU game. You can grade well at C, getting smashed, by a team who is content to sit back & play a 2gap 3 man DL.

 

Miserable position to be in for a 20 year old kid -- like forcing yourself to do a 5 hour leg day, alone, at 7am, after a night out, with nothing but Enya blasting in your ears.

 

Edited by volsmet
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Posted (edited)

The Ragnow vs Payne narrative is absolute bs. This is only from the first 12 snaps of the game, its a joke. The only time Payne is blocked here, its by 3 people. Hes free for 2 sacks, they didnt credit him with one & he just missed another. Its already 17-0 & Payne is the best player on the field, by far, when Arkansas has it. Hopefully Portis isnt scouting for us any time soon. These pictures dont lie, thats our 315lb NT, vs the best C in the game, all taken from the first 12-14 snaps of the game. Im glad the Ragnow matchup was pointed out, now I like Payne even more. DP looks like hes playing HS kids. 

 

Be sure to note the LOS. 

 

 

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Edited by volsmet
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21 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

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Wow!!!  I stand corrected!!!  Literally separated at birth!!!

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Posted (edited)
On 5/19/2018 at 9:13 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I just watched it closely, McClain was playing on the right from the defensive's point of view. Yeah versus 62.  But on the left from the offenses point of view.   Maybe i am wrong but I though you label the position from the vantage point of where you are playing from.  So for example Trent is the left tackle but is facing the opponent's right-DE.

 

You do.  That's what I've been saying though.  Trent faces the right-DE.  That would be McClain in this situation.  I'm pretty sure we've been saying the same thing this whole time.

Edited by HTTRDynasty
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Posted (edited)

Volsmet:

 

I tried to quote your post but it didn't let me without the photos.  As for Portis, he was apparently been paid by the team to scout the running backs.  In one of his post draft segments on the radio he more or less said he didn't scout Payne but in the process of scouting running backs when he'd pop up and he named multiple games -- i only recall Arkansas but he mentioned some others -- Portis said Payne could be run at and he wasn't blown away by the dude.

 

As for your point that hopefully Portis isn't scouting for us anytime soon.  The horse is out of the barn on that one.  He did scout.  We landed one of his big man crushes, Derrius Guice -- who he said he's even consider taking with the #13 pick.

 

I hope Payne is the run stopping beast that some here think he is.  I like Payne, I wish I loved him.  But maybe I will come training camp under the guidance of Tomsula.  I watched 3 days of camp last summer and I was positioned right by the D line training.  I recall Tomsula riding Lanier in particular hard.  He gave a hard time and wouldn't let go and it was funny to watch.   And they had exercise after exercise as to learning to stay low coming off of their stances, etc.     Easily for me the most fun position group to watch. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Volsmet:

 

I tried to quote your post but it didn't let me without the photos.  As for Portis, he was apparently been paid by the team to scout the running backs.  In one of his post draft segments on the radio he more or less said he didn't scout Payne but in the process of scouting running backs when he'd pop up and he named multiple games -- i only recall Arkansas but he mentioned some others -- Portis said Payne could be run at and he wasn't blown away by the dude.

 

As for your point that hopefully Portis isn't scouting for us anytime soon.  The horse is out of the barn on that one.  He did scout.  We landed one of his big man crushes, Derrius Guice -- who he said he's even consider taking with the #13 pick.

 

I hope Payne is the run stopping beast that some here think he is.  I like Payne, I wish I loved him.  But maybe I will come training camp under the guidance of Tomsula.  I watched 3 days of camp last summer and I was positioned right by the D line training.  I recall Tomsula riding Lanier in particular hard.  He gave a hard time and wouldn't let go and it was funny to watch.   And they had exercise after exercise as to learning to stay low coming off of their stances, etc.     Easily for me the most fun position group to watch. 

 

What did his scouting do to help us get Guice in round 2? Obviously Portis doesnt have much influence, we were so in love with Guice that we traded back after he fell to us in round 2 the first time. 

 

Each of the photos above are from the first 10 minutes & 30 seconds of the Payne vs Ragnow matchup, & Payne is living in the backfield. Grade it yourself, my friend. Our new 315 lb DT spent more time with his hands on the QB, who Ragnow was supposed to protect, than he spent being blocked by Ragnow. I think its funny that these photos clearly show our DT -- who supposedly has no pass rushing skills -- behind an Olineman who supposedly has no weaknesses.

 

I wouldnt be surprised to learn that the Arkansas QB filed for a restraining order after the first 10 minutes of the game - Payne couldnt keep his hands off of the guy. Allen probably joined the #metoo movement after the game. 

 

I only wish Ragnow ended up in our division. 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, volsmet said:

 

What did his scouting do to help us get Guice in round 2? Obviously Portis doesnt have much influence, we were so in love with Guice that we traded back after he fell to us in round 2 the first time. 

 

 

I don't think is so simple that hey they take him later so they didn't love him that much -- especially when you are posting here about how you much you think of Payne.  You can't always get what you want in the draft.  Doug himself said they had a first round grade on Guice.  Some in the draft room according to Doug wanted Guice at 44, others desperately wanted to add another pick.  The rumors about Guice led to a perfect storm in a good way for the draft.

 

As for Portis' role in all of it.  You got me.  If you want to be down about Portis' takes -- that's cool with me.  As for Payne, I'd then add Cooley too who likes but doesn't love the guy.   PFF guys think he's a 2nd round value unless the Georgia game represents his future.  Brugler thought 2nd round, too.  So Portis has some company.  But heck different strokes for different folks that's part of the fun of the drafting process.  If it were that easy to figure this stuff in advance you wouldn't have the high bust rate and Doug wouldn't be calling the draft a crapshoot. 

 

1 hour ago, volsmet said:

Each of the photos above are from the first 10 minutes & 30 seconds of the Payne vs Ragnow matchup, & Payne is living in the backfield. Grade it yourself, my friend. Our new 315 lb DT spent more time with his hands on the QB, who Ragnow was supposed to protect, than he spent being blocked by Ragnow. I think its funny that these photos clearly show our DT -- who supposedly has no pass rushing skills -- behind an Olineman who supposedly has no weaknesses.

 

I've looked but can't find that game on youtube with a Payne focus.  I found an abridged version of the game.  With any player, I have to see the whole thing especially as to the big guys who can wear down later on.   As for Payne I got my own opinions on him irrespective of Portis -- that's why I said I like him better than Portis does.  

 

I don't want to get into a debate about Payne.  I've posted weeks back that I am done with that.  For me personally, its been a long time since I watched him.  In real time on TV, I watched a lot of Alabama. As for rewatching games -- months back I did that.  But I don't recall much as for game to game thing.  I recall liking him a lot against Tennessee and of course the Georgia game.  But then others I liked but not loved.   He can occupy two blockers and look great at times.  And then others, one guy can handle him where he comes out of his stance high and he gets shoved often to the left and a run crease forms.  Two blockers can swallow him sometimes and push him out of the play.     I watched Damon Harrison a bunch on coach tape and that dude just swallows our double teams in a scary way.  I don't get that vibe enough with Payne to make me love the dude in an apples to apples way versus Snacks.    But in watching Harrison, Tomlinson sometimes stands out too against the run.  And Payne supposedly is the better player so that's a good sign. 

 

I actually think he has more pass rush potential that some critics though.  He moves well for a guy his size.  In some games, he is just a ball of fire where even if he's blocked he's a handful and he penetrates.   I also like that he played all over their D line.  Left.  Right.  0-1, 2-3, 4-5.  the whole gamut.  On our D line the only guy who really did that last year was Hood.   So I like the player but don't love the pick.  He wouldn't be the guy I'd have taken at 13.  But if Tomsula can coach him up I think he has a lot of potential.  

 

I showed some clippings of Ziggy Hood here from the Vikings game and I wasn't cherry picking.  I thought of adding more clips but I think I made my point.  I think Payne will be a major upgrade at that spot. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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Posted (edited)

I can't find the Arkansas game film with a focus on Payne either, but you can see most of his snaps in this Minkah breakdown:

 

 

 

I think the only time he really lost against Ragnow was in the snap below: 

 

 

 

I think the biggest knock on Payne against the run is that he can get washed out on double teams, mostly due to his high pad level.  He's not some big 330 pound behemoth that's always going to hold up at the POA.  Though when he does get doubled, he usually gives his teammates opportunities to take advantage and make plays in the backfield.

 

Ignore Ledyard's exaggeration here.  It's not Ragnow winning, it's a double-team.

 

 

 

Edited by HTTRDynasty

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5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I don't think is so simple that hey they take him later so they didn't love him that much -- especially when you are posting here about how you much you think of Payne.  You can't always get what you want in the draft.  Doug himself said they had a first round grade on Guice.  Some in the draft room according to Doug wanted Guice at 44, others desperately wanted to add another pick.  The rumors about Guice led to a perfect storm in a good way for the draft.

 

As for Portis' role in all of it.  You got me.  If you want to be down about Portis' takes -- that's cool with me.  As for Payne, I'd then add Cooley too who likes but doesn't love the guy.   PFF guys think he's a 2nd round value unless the Georgia game represents his future.  Brugler thought 2nd round, too.  So Portis has some company.  But heck different strokes for different folks that's part of the fun of the drafting process.  If it were that easy to figure this stuff in advance you wouldn't have the high bust rate and Doug wouldn't be calling the draft a crapshoot. 

 

 

I've looked but can't find that game on youtube with a Payne focus.  I found an abridged version of the game.  With any player, I have to see the whole thing especially as to the big guys who can wear down later on.   As for Payne I got my own opinions on him irrespective of Portis -- that's why I said I like him better than Portis does.  

 

I don't want to get into a debate about Payne.  I've posted weeks back that I am done with that.  For me personally, its been a long time since I watched him.  In real time on TV, I watched a lot of Alabama. As for rewatching games -- months back I did that.  But I don't recall much as for game to game thing.  I recall liking him a lot against Tennessee and of course the Georgia game.  But then others I liked but not loved.   He can occupy two blockers and look great at times.  And then others, one guy can handle him where he comes out of his stance high and he gets shoved often to the left and a run crease forms.  Two blockers can swallow him sometimes and push him out of the play.     I watched Damon Harrison a bunch on coach tape and that dude just swallows our double teams in a scary way.  I don't get that vibe enough with Payne to make me love the dude in an apples to apples way versus Snacks.    But in watching Harrison, Tomlinson sometimes stands out too against the run.  And Payne supposedly is the better player so that's a good sign. 

 

I actually think he has more pass rush potential that some critics though.  He moves well for a guy his size.  In some games, he is just a ball of fire where even if he's blocked he's a handful and he penetrates.   I also like that he played all over their D line.  Left.  Right.  0-1, 2-3, 4-5.  the whole gamut.  On our D line the only guy who really did that last year was Hood.   So I like the player but don't love the pick.  He wouldn't be the guy I'd have taken at 13.  But if Tomsula can coach him up I think he has a lot of potential.  

 

I showed some clippings of Ziggy Hood here from the Vikings game and I wasn't cherry picking.  I thought of adding more clips but I think I made my point.  I think Payne will be a major upgrade at that spot. 

 

"I don't think is so simple that hey they take him later so they didn't love him that much -- especially when you are posting here about how you much you think of Payne"

 

I dont see what your point is. I have pointed out plays where Payne was very disruptive, what does that have to do with anything? Your point alludes me, my friend. 

 

If we had a first round grade on Guice, why risk losing him? We didnt move back a spot or two, we gave everyone the opportunity to go get him after he fell to us. Thats a very clear indication of our own concerns, Doug Williams telling us his grade doesn't mean anything - trading away the opportunity to draft him in the middle of round 2 tells us quite a bit. 

 

I dont want to be down about Portis' take, I simply disagree with what took place vs Arkansas. I dont start with a conclusion, I wanted Derwin James, but I watched Payne & am very impressed with what I see. His pass rushing is consistently criticized, but Pruitt didn't ask him to get up the field as much as guys with superior highlight clips did. I dont believe he was credited with a single tackle in the Arkansas game, but he could have had 2-3 sacks in the first 10 snaps he played. He wrecked Arkansas when it was close. I think a lot of people see the lack of stats & let that impact how they see the film. As for the guys watching the clips, Id be more interested in what you see vs Arkansas than 2nd hand information from Portis or Cooley. I will look back to see those thoughts of yours, but Ill refrain from rehashing anything. 

 

I wasn't particularly impressed with him vs my Vols until I watched the game a 2nd time. He won nearly every snap, something you clearly noticed.

 

I value a disagreement as much as an agreement, the value is in the discussion & being willing to put your considerations out there. I respect that you don't shy from possible criticism, the draft discussion is the most enjoyable part of the season for me, but also the most difficult to navigate cleanly. The best scouts get these guys wrong with regularity, there are simply too many variable.

 

When we drafted Payne over Derwin I strongly considered seeing how far I could throw my remote control. After a walk & a talk with my therapist, I decided to watch the Vols game more closely, then the UGA game, and I changed my mind completely. Being a diehard Vol fan isn't easy, we rely on large quantities of beer & xanax to get us through each season. Now my NFL team has become Bama-North, these guys just wont leave me alone, even our new HC is from Bama. But, having watched more football than Im comfortable admitting, Id be shocked if Payne isn't a great player for us. The Arkansas stills above are a perfect example of why he gets overlooked by some; they run a bootleg away from him, triple team him, he clogs the middle for a LBs tackle, stunts & beats a tackle forcing a scramble, & causes an INT grounding. No stats, but he dominated the Arkansas OL thoroughly. 

 

He isnt asked to rush the passer a lot, but if you watch the Vols game again, watch what he does on the last play of the half. Heck, I'll just post the stills of it. Another play that doesn't show up in the stats, but displays an agility & natural pass rushing ability that I believe will have him in a pro bowl or 8.

 

I enjoy your considerations a great deal, my friend.

 

Below Payne lines up over Tennessees one truly special OL, Trey Smith. This is a hail mary so Payne is free to get up the field, its one time when he's let loose to cause damage any way hes able. Our new 315lb human gets off the ball first, splits a double team with a spin move, puts a freak (Smith) on his ass, & you can even see him being held as he busts through the line...alone. Hes just unbelievably special imo.

 

Httr

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

I can't find the Arkansas game film with a focus on Payne either, but you can see most of his snaps in this Minkah breakdown:

 

 

 

I think the only time he really lost against Ragnow was in the snap below: 

 

 

 

I think the biggest knock on Payne against the run is that he can get washed out on double teams, mostly due to his high pad level.  He's not some big 330 pound behemoth that's always going to hold up at the POA.  Though when he does get doubled, he usually gives his teammates opportunities to take advantage and make plays in the backfield.

 

Ignore Ledyard's exaggeration here.  It's not Ragnow winning, it's a double-team.

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Ragnow allowed no sacks & only 3 pressures in his college career, or so I read. Payne only played 3Q in this game, he was held with almost as much regularity as he was doubled with, but he just continued to be the first off the line & never stopped dominating this game even as Ark gave up on the run & Payne was forced to do something many say hes awful at, rush the passer. 

 

If not for being a merciful gentleman, Ragnow would certainly have been the one to blame for the sack Payne had in this game that was called intentional grounding. Its amazing that our 315lb non pass rusher was the only guy to beat Ragnow for a sack, much less 7 of the 3 pressures Ragnow ever gave up. :)

 

Consistently off the los first, being held blatantly regularly, reading screens, & he blew up the last play of the 1H when Ark had the ball at the 4 & decided to go for the TD; Payne lines up over the center & just whips him quickly with an explosive rush & Ark goes to the lockroom with zero. 

 

I wouldnt be surprised if he ends up more disruptive in the passing game than in the run. He has the looks of something special, I think he will prove to be a top 3 player from this class. 

 

*shot loaded out of order, my apologies*

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Edited by volsmet
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4 hours ago, volsmet said:

After a walk & a talk with my therapist, I decided to watch the Vols game more closely, then the UGA game, and I changed my mind completely. Being a diehard Vol fan isn't easy, we rely on large quantities of beer & xanax to get us through each season.

two words...Phillip Fulmer

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, volsmet said:

 

If we had a first round grade on Guice, why risk losing him? We didnt move back a spot or two, we gave everyone the opportunity to go get him after he fell to us. Thats a very clear indication of our own concerns, Doug Williams telling us his grade doesn't mean anything - trading away the opportunity to draft him in the middle of round 2 tells us quite a bit. 

 

 

Listening to Doug not everyone in the draft room wanted to take Payne.  Not everyone at 44 wanted to trade down, some wanted to take Guice at that slot.  My guess about Guice -- they were enjoying the rumors that led to his free fall and hoped he'd still be there after the trade down.  According to Doug they still liked other players on their board, too in the 2nd round -- on the off chance Guice wasn't there. 

 

My take is you could like multiple players at a spot and that doesn't denigrate anyone specifically when that's the case.  It would be actually almost a little sad if on your board in the early rounds you only had one guy you really liked a lot.    

 

The Redskins were sniffing all over Guice before the draft.  Payne, too. That was posted a ton about in the draft thread. I gather the rumors about his behavior made them think twice not the player.  But I guess we will never know. :)

7 hours ago, volsmet said:

 

Id be more interested in what you see vs Arkansas than 2nd hand information from Portis or Cooley. I will look back to see those thoughts of yours, but Ill refrain from rehashing anything. 

 

I wasn't particularly impressed with him vs my Vols until I watched the game a 2nd time. He won nearly every snap, something you clearly noticed.

 

 

Ironically last fall among my first man crushes were Guice and Payne.  I fell to just liking Payne over time.   And grew to love James and Edmonds over him.  I didn't need to hear Cooley's take to form my opinion but he among others confirmed it.   Cooley has been bullseye accurate on the d lineman who have come here -- he was even the guy that kept going trust him on Ionnaidis, he will be really good, even when he didn't burn it up his rookie year.  But I don't always agree with Cooley -- I am higher for example on Guice than Cooley is.  But I watch a lot of Alabama.  I might even go to their opener this year.  My biggest man crush was Fitzpatrick.   I don't think though any of the critics are down on Payne, its just some don't see him as an elite type of talent that warrants the 13th pick.  Heck even the ESPN post draft analysis where current personnel guys from other teams were asked to judge other teams drafts -- the guy that was picked on with the Redskins was Payne with the guy saying he'd have picked Edmonds, instead.

 

7 hours ago, volsmet said:

 

I value a disagreement as much as an agreement, the value is in the discussion & being willing to put your considerations out there. I respect that you don't shy from possible criticism, the draft discussion is the most enjoyable part of the season for me, but also the most difficult to navigate cleanly. The best scouts get these guys wrong with regularity, there are simply too many variable.

 

When we drafted Payne over Derwin I strongly considered seeing how far I could throw my remote control. After a walk & a talk with my therapist, I decided to watch the Vols game more closely, then the UGA game, and I changed my mind completely. Being a diehard Vol fan isn't easy, we rely on large quantities of beer & xanax to get us through each season. Now my NFL team has become Bama-North, these guys just wont leave me alone, even our new HC is from Bama. But, having watched more football than Im comfortable admitting, Id be shocked if Payne isn't a great player for us. The Arkansas stills above are a perfect example of why he gets overlooked by some; they run a bootleg away from him, triple team him, he clogs the middle for a LBs tackle, stunts & beats a tackle forcing a scramble, & causes an INT grounding. No stats, but he dominated the Arkansas OL thoroughly. 

 

He isnt asked to rush the passer a lot, but if you watch the Vols game again, watch what he does on the last play of the half. Heck, I'll just post the stills of it. Another play that doesn't show up in the stats, but displays an agility & natural pass rushing ability that I believe will have him in a pro bowl or 8.

 

I enjoy your considerations a great deal, my friend.

 

 

 

Thanks  and I agree about the scouting point.  Someone asked me weeks back whether I have an open mind about Payne versus being locked down on it.  I said of course I have an open mind -- if scouts get it 50% wrong, who am I to double down that I am right no matter what.  And its not that I dislike Payne.  I like him.  Just don't love him.  If they got him later in the first round I'd have dug the pick much more but at 13 it felt rich to me.

 

As for the Tennessee game, its been a long time since I watched it.  But I recall what I liked about him in that game was the energy.  For a big guy the dude was bouncing off of blocks, a ball of fire in that game, a handful to deal with it. 

 

And I appreciate enthusiasm about any player we draft.  Obviously, I am hoping for the most optimistic take about any player to prove true. 

 

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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On 5/19/2018 at 11:41 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

My take on Payne is complex.  I like but don't love the player. I don't see him as this monster-immovable nose who just eats up the A gap all the time.  My criticism isn't hey the dude is a monster run stopper but can he rush the passer?  I don't think he's a monster run stopper just yet -- a good one though.  And Clinton Portis is much harsher on that point he goes when he was watching the top backs to grade them, he saw Payne handled way too much for his liking -- he cited one of the Arkansas games where Ragnow handled him among others.  Don't love the pick, don't hate it either.  But I do think he will vastly improve the middle of the defense.  And maybe he does develop into a Snacks Harrison type with Tomsula's guidance.   I was just rewatching the Vikings/Redskins.  The Vikings 2nd play.   Hood playing 1 technique, McClain 3.   The Vikings O line just shove and handle McClain and Hood and in the process part the seas up the middle for a big run.  I'd gather with Allen back in the lineup and Payne, this will be rare.

 

redskinsbighole.thumb.png.789fafa8e6d9240766f664654221c24e.png


 

 

I agree with this, for now. Watching Payne, probably because he is trying to stand up and control the OL and two-gap, there are a lot of times that he seems to be pretty easily moved by a double team. I don't see him as a massive, immoveable object like Vea.

 

On the other hand, he's 20, has great short area quickness, and is super strong. At Alabama's Spring workouts last year, Payne benched 545 and squatted 635. At his age, that's crazy. Watch his combine workout. His bench press reps were all with a narrow grip. Watch the video below to see how effortless his 635 pount deadlift is. 

 

https://www.seccountry.com/alabama/daron-payne-can-bench-press-545-pounds-plus-unreal-numbers-alabamas-spring-workouts

 

 

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/da'ron-payne?id=32462018-0002-5600-68ba-6b48873dba9b


I actually think Payne has more potential as a 1 gap penetrator than he does as a phone booth guy. With his power and short area quickness, I don't see how you keep him out of the gap with one offensive lineman. Also, Payne didn't just have one good game at the end of the season. He was the defensive MVP in both of Alabama's playoff games. To me, that looks like a kid that was coming into his own, and could have potentially been a top 10 pick next year. 

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That look tells me he just left kidhood, became a young man, and knows he's going to mature into someone people will fear for a long time.

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I've really warmed up to Payne after digging deeper. Before the draft I was convinced he was a second round guy based on production and value.. now I'm not so sure. The guy is an absolute physical monster and he's still just a kid at 20 years old.. Imagine him 2 or 3 years down the line with NFL strength & conditioning, plus NFL experience and Tomsula coaching.. 

 

All while he's lined up next to Jon Allen, Matt Ion, Ryan Kerrigan, Preston Smith and Pernell Mcphee (obviously not all at the same time) with heat seeking missiles behind him like Zach Brown and Ryan Anderson.. Assuming everyone can stay somewhat healthy that is a pretty studly lineup, and if Payne grows into what he should become, we could have a devastatingly effective overall group. And that's not even counting Settle, what if he is the big immovable body at the 0 and Payne can use his elite first step at the 3 shooting gaps?

 

Scenarios like these are what has me excited for not only this season, but 2 or 3 years down the road.

 

Look at this dude.. that is a big boy and he's ready to eat..

Payne-780x520.jpg

 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/da'ron-payne?id=32462018-0002-5600-68ba-6b48873dba9b


I actually think Payne has more potential as a 1 gap penetrator than he does as a phone booth guy. With his power and short area quickness, I don't see how you keep him out of the gap with one offensive lineman. Also, Payne didn't just have one good game at the end of the season. He was the defensive MVP in both of Alabama's playoff games. To me, that looks like a kid that was coming into his own, and could have potentially been a top 10 pick next year. 

 

I'll eventually get to re-watching his games.  I did it for some games months back.  I liked/like the guys potential.  He's one of the rare nose tackles who isn't fat and is relatively in shape.  He's a good athlete for his size.  As for his Georgia and Clemson games being what he's going to play like all the time -- yeah if that happens I agree, good pick if it goes down like that. 

 

But too many games for me that I recall where I wasn't blown away by Payne and I am not even just referring to rushing the passer but also handling double teams and plugging the A gap, etc.   A lot of my impression about him and any nose is trying to compare apples to apples with Snacks Harrison.  And from watching Snacks Harrison, the dude swallows double teams regularly, if you focus in on Snacks on coaches tape which I did in the Redskins games the dude is scary good against our O line.  I just don't get that level of a vibe from watching Payne.  I got more of that vibe watching Vea.   

 

I do think Payne has the athleticism to develop some as a pass rusher.  And I think he will be a mile better than Ziggy so I think we can almost count our chickens that we will be hearing all preseason/camp, etc about how much better they are up the middle.   And I am jazzed about that.  I just have to forget watching D. James and Edmunds and I'd feel a lot better if both players end up busts. :D

 

Cooley likes to say we got too many B level players -- good players but not enough great.  My fear is we just passed on two great players for a good player.  And that fact that Doug admitted that some people disagreed about the pick in the draft room doesn't make me feel better about that point.

 

The thing that gets me the most jazzed actually about Payne is watching film on Hood play 0-1.  The difference between Payne and Hood should be night and day. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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