RedBeast Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 I drive by Ashburn a few times each week. I used to drive by with hope, now it is just disgust...like a bad sushi lunch. No faith left, or very little. Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 Honestly GMSM gets way too much credit for the past 2 seasons while Gruden doesn't get the appropriate amount of credit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 15 hours ago, Califan007 said: So nobody knows how Scot was overridden in terms of Trent Murphy? If I remember what I read, Scot wanted to release Trent Murphy. Allen and Gruden wanted to keep him. Not the other way around. I could be wrong but that's what I remember. On 3/14/2017 at 8:24 AM, Califan007 said: First part, it's amazing how few people realize that it could be both Allen AND Scot, to differing degrees. Second part, for me, if Allen really wanted to be GM he would have stayed GM instead of reaching out to Scot in mid-season. By the way, can anyone fill me in on how Scot was overruled on Trent Murphy?...One article included his name in a list of players Scot wanted to keep but was overruled by Allen? I agree here, 100%. It takes two to separate. I have no doubt that Scot and Bruce disagreed on some of the players. But that has nothing to do with Scot drinking more heavily. Alcoholism is not a one day sober next day a completed drunk thing. It gradually builds over time. So it's not a huge leap to suggest that in the beginning he had indeed gotten his drinking down to a minimal level. Once the pressure was on for him to perform he started drinking a little more each day. Then the arguments over players that started as simple disagreements started to get more intense. Scot starts to show signs of drinking more heavily. Then Bruce has to start wondering is this really what Scot wants or is the alcohol talking. It's not helped by Bruce being stubborn. So he starts questioning every move Scot makes and being overly critical. That's how it escalates. In the end, Scot finally hits his tipping point when no one jumps to defend him when Cooley suggests he has been drinking. He leaves. Bruce and the team see it as a time out for each. A cooling off period. They decide to try and get through the combine and draft and then revisit the issue then. The hope would be that the relationship could be salvaged. Once the media realized Scot was not at the combine, the team tried to give Scot an out and keep themselves from being the story. But the media would not let it go and it started to be a total distraction. I am not blaming the media here actually. It is a story when a GM of a team is not at the combine. I would pursue it too if I were them. They had to separate. What I do blame the media and many fans for is immediately assuming the team is completely wrong and that Scot is just a victim. @CapsSkins laid it out pretty well. All conclusions draw are done to try and make the team look as bad as possible. And since that's what many want to believe, they run with it. The facts become irrelevant. Having seen this exact type of thing play out with close co-workers and losing a few friends and family to this disease, I can tell you this is much more plausible than many of the "let's just blame Dan and Bruce for everything" narrative that seems to be too easy to accept. Ultimately, there is enough blame to go around. Scot has to own his part in this and fans need to recognize this too. And yes, the team could have handled this more effectively. But there has also been a bunch of piling on. You know, like reporting at the same time that Kirk Cousins demanded a trade when in fact that's not true at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreek1973 Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 22 hours ago, Mr. Sinister said: Damn. Would've been nice... Don't know about that, I can bet you he would not be spending all the money he could and if you think Bruce is cheap Buffet would want to have the minimum CAP hit each and every year. Hell that would be his goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted March 15, 2017 Author Share Posted March 15, 2017 38 minutes ago, goskins10 said: But there has also been a bunch of piling on. You know, like reporting at the same time that Kirk Cousins demanded a trade when in fact that's not true at all. Some reporter (I think) tweeted something like "Can I get a list of the Redskins news stories that are still alive?" lol...right now the spin to keep the "Cousins demanded a trade from Snyder" story alive is claiming that "demanded" is semantics and that Mortensen never used that word. No comment about all the other media members who may have used it and, if so, had no problem doing so. They also for the most part are ignoring the "Cousins won't sign a LTD as long as Allen is still working there" story that almost always accompanied the "demand trade" one. Pretty sure Kirk shot down both of those with one shot lol... we we really do need a list... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaper Skins Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 Crazy to see how fast people have turned on Scott in here.... Its obvious to me that his entire time here was building towards THIS draft and free agency period. The number of picks, the capspace, it all points to NOW being the point where he planned to make the biggest switch and upgrades. He was willing to go bare bones for the first two seasons in order to get us into a good position NOW. Despite saving all his resources for his 3rd season, he still managed to get us Scherff, Crowder, Jones, Kelley, Davis, Blackmon, Norman, Cravens, Smith, Jarrett, Fuller, and field a defense GOOD ENOUGH to give us a fighting chance every week, back to back winning seasons and our first playoff trip since 2012. You all are like people who go to a party, eat the appetizers, and then complain that there wasn't enough food before dinner is even served. The main course is still to come. Just remember, when it tastes good, it was Scott who did the cooking. Don't give Allen credit for all the work Scott did the past 3 seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted March 15, 2017 Author Share Posted March 15, 2017 8 minutes ago, Reaper Skins said: Don't give Allen credit for all the work Scott did the past 3 seasons. Ironically, I think the point others were trying to make was don't give Scott credit for the work done by those before him. There have been those who act like the talent brought in before he arrived is irrelevant to the success of the last two years, including the coaching talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaper Skins Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 11 minutes ago, Califan007 said: Ironically, I think the point others were trying to make was don't give Scott credit for the work done by those before him. There have been those who act like the talent brought in before he arrived is irrelevant to the success of the last two years, including the coaching talent. I get that, but also don't think people give enough weight to Bruce using Scot's scouting services in 2014 when they talk about Allen's drafting ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted March 15, 2017 Author Share Posted March 15, 2017 12 minutes ago, Reaper Skins said: I get that, but also don't think people give enough weight to Bruce using Scot's scouting services in 2014 when they talk about Allen's drafting ability. For the record, I agree with you that dismissing Scot's role in the last two years is asinine. He wasn't brought in to turn things around immediately...we will see his contributions to the team long after his firing. Cousins becoming starter is 70% of the reason, and from all reports he played a role in that. I have serious doubts about him standing on the table to convince Snyder, tho lol...sounds like how Cousins talking with Snyder and Allen about where things stand turned into him "demanding" to be traded and won't sign a LTD while Allen is still in charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 23 minutes ago, Reaper Skins said: Crazy to see how fast people have turned on Scott in here.... Its obvious to me that his entire time here was building towards THIS draft and free agency period. The number of picks, the capspace, it all points to NOW being the point where he planned to make the biggest switch and upgrades. He was willing to go bare bones for the first two seasons in order to get us into a good position NOW. Despite saving all his resources for his 3rd season, he still managed to get us Scherff, Crowder, Jones, Kelley, Davis, Blackmon, Norman, Cravens, Smith, Jarrett, Fuller, and field a defense GOOD ENOUGH to give us a fighting chance every week, back to back winning seasons and our first playoff trip since 2012. You all are like people who go to a party, eat the appetizers, and then complain that there wasn't enough food before dinner is even served. The main course is still to come. Just remember, when it tastes good, it was Scott who did the cooking. Don't give Allen credit for all the work Scott did the past 3 seasons. I can only speak for myself. My thoughts about how the relationship ended has nothing to do with the job I think Scot did while he was here. I actually agree he deserves more credit than he is getting. It is really short sighted to judge a draft after 1 yr. Those touting the 2014 draft as better than Scot's are forgetting that after the 2014 season most had decided the draft was a disaster. Then: Murphy - very underwhelming. Most wrote him off as a bust. - Now, albeit apparently with a little help he had a breakout year in 2016. Let's see how much the PEDs made. Morgan Moses- injured. Out with Lis Franc. - Now, Starting RT. Spencer Long - Playe only 5 games in spot duty. - Now, Starting Oline - C and LG. Breeland - Solid Starter - Now, struggled but still the starter. Ryan Grant - inactive about 6 gms. Had all of 7 catches. Seastrunk, Bolser, Hocker did not make the team. Still not on an NFL roster. Let's see how the 2016 draft looks like after next year before deciding. There is a good chance several players make big strides. I think the biggest thing being missed is the back end of the roster. Guys coming in for injured players are better caliber. And STs have been very good since Scot got here. That's all the back end of the roster for the most part. But he has not been perfect. The criticism of the DLine is valid. He tried some lower paid 2nd and 3rd level FAs and none came through. Unlike many I liked the Scherff and DOcston picks. Also, there has been some bad luck with some injuries. Dashaun Goldston makes the 2015 draft completely different. Doctson and Daniels were injured. If either one or both made bigger contributions this years it drastically changes the draft. Also, I believe Cravens was misused and Fuller was the victim of horrendous S play. He was in position al ot but didn't get the help he was supposed to get. But none of that means Scot does not own some of the separation - specifically the drinking part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbunny Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 34 minutes ago, Reaper Skins said: I get that, but also don't think people give enough weight to Bruce using Scot's scouting services in 2014 when they talk about Allen's drafting ability. The guy that is getting the less credit for all of this, as surprising as it is is Gruden. And that's a shame... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaper Skins Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 35 minutes ago, HapHaszard said: This narrative the team is trying to push is insulting to Redskins fan's intelligence. We're actually supposed to believe this garbage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Batman Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 9 minutes ago, Reaper Skins said: This narrative the team is trying to push is insulting to Redskins fan's intelligence Let's be real though - that tie Scot is wearing should be a fireable offense unto itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbunny Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 18 minutes ago, Reaper Skins said: This narrative the team is trying to push is insulting to Redskins fan's intelligence. We're actually supposed to believe this garbage? Well, I hope somehow that Scot is not essential and we can keep on being relevant on the field with another GM. Because if we can't succeed if our GM isn't Scot, we might as well just terminate the franchise as it'll be hopeless. Joe Gibbs survived Beathard after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobandweave Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 25 minutes ago, Reaper Skins said: This narrative the team is trying to push is insulting to Redskins fan's intelligence. We're actually supposed to believe this garbage? If you actually believe that Scot did anything amazing and earth shattering while he was the GM here outside of maybe drafting Crowder in the 4th, and Brandon in the 1st someone who people still argue was a piss poor decision to take a Guard as high as he was drafted, then be my guest. That's all I see out of him to think hey we might have lost something here when he left. I can't give him a pass on the mountain of failures he was responsible for. I mean **** Dan Snyder and ***** Bruce Allen but be honest about Scot. Best thing he brought was a belief that we were being run by a football minded guy and "In Scot we trust" happy good feelings but that's less about him and more about the guys he was supposed to get out of making football decisions. Scot failed in the drafts he was a part of and he failed in the FA he was apart of. All the main pieces that helped us have winning seasons the past two seasons were already here before he got here. And don't forget that it was Scot that Kirk on national TV right after our biggest win in forever who screamed at him "How do you like me now" which we don't know what part Scot played in the QB drama but clearly he played some role in for that to go down. I don't look at Scot leaving as that important to us honestly. I like the man, but maybe all that drinking has effected his brain and he lost it because the results on the field are not supporting him. I don't see what's special about him like I used to. We need someone to neuter Bruce Allen and Danny again obviously but I think we can do much better at GM if we tried Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaper Skins Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsPassion4Life Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 Al Galdi said it best this morning..... Half Truth's, Misinformation, overreaction.....FAKE NEWS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimmySmith Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 1 hour ago, Reaper Skins said: I get that, but also don't think people give enough weight to Bruce using Scot's scouting services in 2014 when they talk about Allen's drafting ability. It's called, making judgments based on what you know. Allen made the picks, we know that. What weight, if any, we give to a scouting service (and I am certain that teams use more than 1) is pure conjecture. What do we know about Kirk starting and who made that call. At one point in time EVERYONE has been given credit for it and more than likely, it was a bit of everyone. The evidence points to Gruden as being the biggest factor based on 2 pre-seasons ago. He is clearly the one who stuck his neck out the furthest and answered the tough questions from the press. What do we know about Scot's drafts? 2015 Started at about A-/B+, but 2 years later C-. 2016 1 year later C+. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oraphus Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 6 hours ago, -JB- said: Sure, after the first back to back above .500 seasons in forever, I'm going to be led to believe that Scot McCloughan was the underlying problem! Sounds legit! yeah you're right.... probably has nothing to do with Gruden and Mcvay(now youngest head coach ever) or KC - Offence that carried this team to those .500+ seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 1 hour ago, Wildbunny said: The guy that is getting the less credit for all of this, as surprising as it is is Gruden. And that's a shame... I meant to add that to the other post. While I believe Scot did a pretty good (not amazing, but good) job, Jay's contributions are being largely overlooked. He deserves a lot more credit than he gets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oraphus Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 20 hours ago, drowland said: You left Schreff out of there. Scot's way of building a team is strong defense and running game which never came together. Matt Jones wasn't Frank Gore or Lynch and the defense got worse. The band-aid signings he made couldn't hold it together on defense. Disappointing considering he made a comment that fixing the defense would be easy. This might have been is draft for him to start righting the defense and I expect the Skins to go heavy on defense. But I've waited for them to draft DL the first 2 days of the draft the last couple years and they've passed. right.. my bad on leaving off Shreff. But using a 5th overall pick on guard, even a really good one is still debatable as a good pic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobandweave Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 1 hour ago, Reaper Skins said: If I know nothing then this is you pal Scot was responsible for scouting FA's and Draft picks. That's it. Over the past two years besides Scherff and Crowder and including Free Agency please do tell me what accomplishments Scot brought this team. What did this super scout provide us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaper Skins Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 24 minutes ago, bobandweave said: What did this super scout provide us? http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/23018/scot-mccloughan-changed-culture-increased-energy-level http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2577478-losing-culture-is-changing-for-the-washington-redskins http://nflspinzone.com/2015/03/11/washington-redskins-scot-mccloughan-changing-culture/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/redskins-hire-of-scot-mccloughan-may-signal-change-in-organizational-approach/2015/01/09/c1f01712-980a-11e4-8005-1924ede3e54a_story.html?utm_term=.8901d0255960 http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000537137/article/jay-grudenscot-mccloughan-redskins-displaying-accountability http://www.redskins.com/news-and-events/article-1/Redskins-Culture-Change-Slowly-But-Surely-Arriving/2baef871-ab30-4136-b3a6-fc07d58a4a14 http://www.csnmidatlantic.com/washington-redskins/el-bashir-watch-out-high-paid-vets-culture-change-apparent-redskins http://www.thezonereport.com/redskins-news/2016/11/15/duke-ihenacho-has-watched-redskins-culture-change-for-the-better-november-14-2016-721-pm-by-chris-lingebach http://www.espn.co.uk/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/24477/redskins-players-confident-in-scot-mccloughans-plan http://www.hngn.com/articles/196644/20160413/redskins-players-feel-gm-scot-mccloughan.htm Also, not sure if the Gruden posts were directed at me. If I gave the impression that I don't think Gruden is just as, if not MORE responsible for the turnaround as Scott the last 2 years, that's not the case. I'm probably one of Gruden's biggest fans, and have been since Day 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 54 minutes ago, TimmySmith said: What do we know about Scot's drafts? 2015 Started at about A-/B+, but 2 years later C-. 2016 1 year later C+. Not sure how you get C- out of the 2015 draft. Brandon Scherff - Pro-bowl guard Preston Smith - Best pass rusher on the team Matt Jones - Inconsistent, and has fumble issues, but is still on the roster Jamison Crowder - Currently our most proven WR and is a top 5 slot WR in the league Arie K. - Back-up guard that might get a chance to start this season Martrell Spaight - Was injured his whole first season and played sporadically in his second season. Not very impressive when he did play but still has room to grow. Kyshoen Jarrett - great pick that had the misfortune of receiving a career-ending injury through no fault of the former GM Tevin Mitchel - stolen from us by the Colts when injured in training camp. Still on their roster. Evan Spencer - out of the league Austin Reiter - suffered an ACL tear last year, but is still on the Browns roster. You might want to take another look around the rest of the league's 2015 rookie classes if you consider ours a C-. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavar1156 Posted March 15, 2017 Share Posted March 15, 2017 The fact that we let Austin Reiter get away still annoys the hell out of me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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