The (only!) official ES all things Kirk Cousins should we shouldn't we off-season thread.

[CapsSkins]

2 minutes ago, carex said:

 

he's willing to risk his career in a town he doesn't want to play in for a year, where he could be hurt or bomb and the Skins would still have the ability to keep him next year with the transition tag.  He'd have to go to a team willing to frontload a contract so the Skins couldn't match it and poison pills will get a contract rejected

 

I don't think he's radically anti-Washington, I think he's a mercenary who wants to get every dollar he can and by assuming a little more risk he can get way more more $$ in the end. He clearly doesn't mind playing on the tag or else he would have negotiated a LTD last year. It's been reported by beat guys that Cousins's camp never returned to table last year after Redskins' initial offer.

[RemoveSnyder]

34 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

If he is really playing hardball, and it's April 25 and you're really unsure whether Cousins will sign a LTD, THEN you must think about trading him because you absolutely cannot let him leave for nothing.

 

The Redskins actually have more time than just up to the draft and they have more options. 

 

In your scenario, for a trade to be an option, Cousins has to sign the franchise tag. He has to be a player under contract.

[CapsSkins]

Just now, Monk4thaHALL said:

 

The Redskins actually have more time than just up to the draft and they have more options. 

 

In your scenario, for a trade to be an option, Cousins has to sign the franchise tag. He has to be a player under contract.

 

Cousins will gleefully sign the tag, as he has publicly said he would do.

[RemoveSnyder]

Just now, CapsSkins said:

Cousins will gleefully sign the tag, as he has publicly said he would do.

 

And, again, the Redskins still have options available to them to avoid letting "him leave for nothing." 

[mistertim]

1 minute ago, carex said:

 

he's willing to risk his career in a town he doesn't want to play in for a year, where he could be hurt or bomb and the Skins would still have the ability to keep him next year with the transition tag.  He'd have to go to a team willing to frontload a contract so the Skins couldn't match it and poison pills will get a contract rejected

 

Yeah it is certainly a risk. He'd have to hope he doesn't get injured or stink up the joint in 2017...or even just be up and down and mediocre. And who knows what will happen if we can't get DJax and Garcon back and/or Reed can't stay healthy again; that could certainly affect his play. I also think he's unlikely to get picked up by a very good team in 2018 for the amount he wants. It would probably end up being a bottom dweller. So then the choice would be....take the risk this year and quite possibly only get an offer from a crap team in 2018 or sign a LTD here and have that security as well as familiarity with the players and coaches.

[CapsSkins]

1 minute ago, Monk4thaHALL said:

 

And, again, the Redskins still have options available to them to avoid letting "him leave for nothing." 

 

Right, like trade him which is what I'm suggesting in this scenario. Where is the confusion here?

[Butters20]

Kirk cousins is a reasonable and smart dude. He also plays as if he knows his own strengths and weaknesses. 

 

There re was an article maybe two years ago about cousins and other rookie-ish players being penny pinchers and saving all their money, etc.  

 

the fact of the matter is Kirk cousins knows he doesn't have to work another day in his life. He made over 20 million already and I would bet he has most of it piled away in a vault and swims in it every day like Scrooge mc duck. 

 

And he brings that attitude to the negotiating table. Of course he'd sign a 24 million tender for one year in an attempt to force a 100million contract. Why? Because 24 million is a lot of ****ing money and at the end of the day he is gonna be okay. Worst case scenario he is still filthy rich. 

 

The he nice thing is, he strikes me as the type who wouldn't slack off once he gets the big deal. Thankfully. I say pay him. I'd rather have continuous winning seasons and stability than an open door every year. After the last two decades I can deal with 9-7 and 10-6

[mistertim]

6 minutes ago, Monk4thaHALL said:

 

And, again, the Redskins still have options available to them to avoid letting "him leave for nothing." 

 

Not if he decides to sign it and play 2017 on it.

 

Unless the Skins really want to pay the guy over $34 million in 2018.

[markmills67]

Just a quick question, if we traded Cousins for 2 1st or whateverit may be, could McCoy with an upgraded defense from FA and the draft win 9 plus games as the starter? That extra $20m would also pay Jackson and Garcon. Although I want a LTD for Cousins, I just thought I would put this question out there.

 

HTTR 

[RemoveSnyder]

3 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

Right, like trade him which is what I'm suggesting in this scenario. Where is the confusion here?

 

First, that Cousins wants out, at all costs, I don't buy. Nonetheless, Cousins can be tagged again in 2018, if need be. Not ideal, but still an option. 

1 minute ago, mistertim said:

Not if he decides to sign it and play 2017 on it.

Unless the Skins really want to pay the guy over $34 million in 2018.

 

What does the word unless mean? 

 

[CapsSkins]

1 minute ago, Monk4thaHALL said:

 

First, that Cousins wants out, at all costs, I don't buy. Nonetheless, Cousins can be tagged again in 2018, if need be. Not ideal, but still an option. 

 

I never said he wanted out "at all costs". But I am not tagging him for $34M or whatever the number is next years. That does not make sense.

 

I tag him next week, and then make a concerted push to get a deal done. If by the draft there is little to no movement on his side and it appears he wants to play on the tag, then I think the best contingency is to get the #2 overall, draft Jonathan Allen or Myles Garrett and move on.

[Butters20]

1 minute ago, markmills67 said:

Just a quick question, if we traded Cousins for 2 1st or whateverit may be, could McCoy with an upgraded defense from FA and the draft win 9 plus games as the starter? That extra $20m would also pay Jackson and Garcon. Although I want a LTD for Cousins, I just thought I would put this question out there.

 

HTTR 

Great scenario. 

 

My my guess would be he could possibly get close to a.500 season 

[markmills67]

1 minute ago, Monk4thaHALL said:

 

First, that Cousins wants out, at all costs, I don't buy. Nonetheless, Cousins can be tagged again in 2018, if need be. Not ideal, but still an option. 

If we are going to trade Cousins I would put the non exclusive franchise tag on him this year not next, see what we can get for him and move on with Colts or whoever. 

 

HTTR 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

3 minutes ago, markmills67 said:

Just a quick question, if we traded Cousins for 2 1st or whateverit may be, could McCoy with an upgraded defense from FA and the draft win 9 plus games as the starter? That extra $20m would also pay Jackson and Garcon. Although I want a LTD for Cousins, I just thought I would put this question out there.

 

HTTR 

That's the (24) million-dollar question. My guess is that is the big question that Scot McCloughan is juggling right now. 

 

 

[markmills67]

Is it me or is this thread getting hotter and hotter. 

 

HTTR 

[RemoveSnyder]

2 minutes ago, markmills67 said:

Just a quick question, if we traded Cousins for 2 1st or whatever

 

Guy. https://nfllabor.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/collective-bargaining-agreement-2011-2020.pdf

 

The two 1st's apply to the non exclusive franchise tag. It's not a trade. It's a specific scenario where Cousins has NOT YET signed the NEFT and another team tables an official contract offer which the Skins either match or choose not to. If not, they Skins are entitled to two 1st's.

 

For it to be a trade, Cousins has to sign the franchise tag. When under contract two teams can negotiate any type of compensation they want. 

[RemoveSnyder]

3 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

I never said he wanted out "at all costs". But I am not tagging him for $34M or whatever the number is next years. That does not make sense.

 

I tag him next week, and then make a concerted push to get a deal done. If by the draft there is little to no movement on his side and it appears he wants to play on the tag, then I think the best contingency is to get the #2 overall, draft Jonathan Allen or Myles Garrett and move on.

 

Why then would Cousins sign the tag before the draft in order to incentivize the Redskins to trade him? 

Why wouldn't he just wait until after the draft, but before July 15, in order to tie the hands of the Redskins even further? 

[CapsSkins]

Just now, Monk4thaHALL said:

 

Why then would Cousins sign the tag before the draft in order to incentivize the Redskins to trade him? 

Why wouldn't he just wait until after the draft, but before July 15, in order to tie the hands of the Redskins even further? 

 

What does he care?  As soon as he signs on that dotted line he is worth another $24M. If I'm him I sign ASAP.

[rick7423]

On 2/22/2017 at 1:10 PM, 50yrSKINSfan said:

Lots of things KC does is close. He was close to competing that last pass against the Giants too. Do you want to pay him 23 mil to come close?  DB has 5 5000yd passing seasons. Only 2 other seasons have guys passed for 5000 yards and DB has 5. Great example.

Yes, I do want to sign him to whatever it takes to keep him here. For once,I want stability at the QB position. Get this done and then fix the damn defense!

 

Essentially, this was KC's 2nd year as a starter, and so many QB's have had sophomore slumps. Look at Cam. His second year was lackluster. 2015 was abysmal for Matt Ryan, but they stuck it out and worked to get better. Now look at both those guys. Class acts in their best years. KC can also be in that category, or at least close.

 

This team has had WAY less cap room and gotten quality players. Cap space is not the issue, it is upper management being cheap, for the first time in recorded history of Dan Snyder.

[ILikeBilly]

36 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

My take on it is more of the sour grapes variety.  Dan's vision for the team was #10 taking this team to a super bowl, and the man he fired told him that Kirk was the better player.  Kirk's went on to show that he's the better player.  I think its safe to say that Kirk most certainly has a chip on his shoulder about all that.  Ultimately, I just can't see Dan ever really falling in love with Kirk, because of all the past drama associated with him.

 

I don't think that's the main reason he's not signed today but I just don't get that warm and fuzzy feeling like you do with most owners and their franchise QBs.  The relationship was tainted from the day Kirk was drafted.

Kirk is a smart guy and he wants to be paid at fair market value at a minimum.  Kirk also wants to be great and win.  Being a student of the game, Kirk must realize that almost no great QBs switch teams and have sustained success.  (Brady, Rodgers, Big Ben, Rivers, Manning #1* & #2, Marino, Montana.....)  Brees and Farve are exceptions, but there aren't many.  If you want to be a great QB, stick with a team, win enough so that the coaches stick around and stability is established.  From there, you can master the system and become the best you can be.  That doesn't happen when you move from team to team.  There is no stability in SF or with the rams.  Does Kirk want to be on the browns next year? 

 

Kirk is on a team with a top 10 offense, a strong oline, he knows the offense inside and out, the team has lots of cap room to build the defense, a young coach, a good GM and a deep pocketed owner.  It is also a high profile team that plays in the NFC East!!!!!  All financial issues being equal, Kirk would be a fool to leave the Redskins.  If the Redskins want Kirk, he will be signed to a LTD.  Kirk is too smart to reject a good offer.

 

* Yes Payton switched teams and won the SB, but it was a bad year for Manning and the denver D carried the team)

[Califan007 The Constipated]

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

My take on it is more of the sour grapes variety.  Dan's vision for the team was #10 taking this team to a super bowl, and the man he fired told him that Kirk was the better player.  Kirk's went on to show that he's the better player.  I think its safe to say that Kirk most certainly has a chip on his shoulder about all that.  Ultimately, I just can't see Dan ever really falling in love with Kirk, because of all the past drama associated with him.

 

I don't think that's the main reason he's not signed today but I just don't get that warm and fuzzy feeling like you do with most owners and their franchise QBs.  The relationship was tainted from the day Kirk was drafted.

 

- Shanahan was fired and has been going around from team to team with his hat in his hand seeing if anyone can spare a job...

- Shanahan and Griffin apparently patched things up to the point he was recommending Griffin to teams

- Snyder was already having genuine and serious doubts about Griffin way before Cousins became starter

- Snyder is having the last laugh no matter how it's told--team is succeeding, he's been praised (for the most part) over the last 2 seasons, has a legitimate, highly praised GM and a team that has back to back winning seasons for the first time in 20 years...he's shown that the team and franchise can and will do just fine without  Shanahan...that tends to wash away the aftertaste of "sour grapes", especially when dealing with multi-billion dollar enterprises

 

Stuff like that, to me, just trumps things like sour grapes. For guys like Snyder, if you do well for them while in their employ, they'll find all sorts of ways to like you lol...

 

EDIT: and to clarify, I'm of the position that the only reason anyone would start to think "Damn, you, Snyder!!" is that they feel there's no legitimate reason for Cousins not being signed to a LTD yet. I'm not of that belief.

[RemoveSnyder]

1 minute ago, CapsSkins said:

What does he care?  As soon as he signs on that dotted line he is worth another $24M. If I'm him I sign ASAP.

 

Your whole premise of a trade is based upon respectful negotiations completely falling apart. 

If the picture you paint is one of animosity and vengefulness, again, why would Cousins help the Redskins to the #2 overall pick? 

 

He could stick it to the Redskins by waiting until after the draft, sign the tag, and still get his guaranteed mega-millions. 

[Renegade7]

36 minutes ago, markmills67 said:

Is it me or is this thread getting hotter and hotter. 

 

HTTR 

 

 

I'm nervous AF.

[CapsSkins]

23 minutes ago, Monk4thaHALL said:

 

Your whole premise of a trade is based upon respectful negotiations completely falling apart. 

If the picture you paint is one of animosity and vengefulness, again, why would Cousins help the Redskins to the #2 overall pick? 

 

He could stick it to the Redskins by waiting until after the draft, sign the tag, and still get his guaranteed mega-millions. 

 

You continue to misunderstand. It is not about "vengeance". It is about maximizing dollars.

[RemoveSnyder]

47 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

But I am not tagging him for $34M or whatever the number is next years. That does not make sense.

 

So, just to point out, the Redskins don't have to necessarily franchise tag Cousins in 2018. There are other designations.