TD_washingtonredskins Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 I know this has been discussed in other threads and all over talk radio, Twitter, etc. last night and today. What should Chris Thompson have done once he secured the first down? There was just under 2 minutes to go, we trailed by 1, and the Eagles had only 1 timeout left. I know it worked out in Philadelphia but we also got burned in Detroit earlier in the season. What do you believe is the best play for THIS REDSKIN TEAM? In my opinion, I'd feel a lot better ending the game with the ball and trailing by 1-2 rather than protecting a 4-6 point lead. In some ways, I'd feel less concerned about a 3-point lead because our opponent would have to eventually consider protecting a FG attempt. When they need a TD to win, it's scary because they are in 4-down territory right away and they will be aggressive. *For the record, this is a philosophical coaching question...I'm in no way stating that Thompson, in the moment, should have made a decision on the fly. This is assuming the coaches could prepare the players for this circumstance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFK Lives Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 I believe in always taking the TD...I might feel differently if a FG will beat you but in this instance the Eagles needed a TD to win. I also feel that it really does send a message to the defense that you don't trust them. Maybe they don't. However, given that you are on the road in a division game and your kicker has struggled recently and your long snapper recently had a back injury, I think you take a TD whenever it presents itself. If you can't trust your defense to stop them than you are just preventing the inevitable and extending your season for a week. In turn, given the positive result yesterday, the defense may build off this momentum. We should certainly have enough film of teams driving on us at the end of the game that one would hope we could make some positive adjustments for the upcoming week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted December 12, 2016 Author Share Posted December 12, 2016 1 minute ago, RFK Lives said: I believe in always taking the TD...I might feel differently if a FG will beat you but in this instance the Eagles needed a TD to win. I also feel that it really does send a message to the defense that you don't trust them. Maybe they don't. However, given that you are on the road in a division game and your kicker has struggled recently and your long snapper recently had a back injury, I think you take a TD whenever it presents itself. If you can't trust your defense to stop them than you are just preventing the inevitable and extending your season for a week. In turn, given the positive result yesterday, the defense may build off this momentum. We should certainly have enough film of teams driving on us at the end of the game that one would hope we could make some positive adjustments for the upcoming week. I disagree - I would always play the odds. I don't have true percentages, but the odds were definitely better to win that game on a last-second FG from 25 yards rather than having to keep the Eagles out of the end zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigmuss1 Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 I was so excited we scored, it didn't dawn on me about kneeling until we kicked the ball to the eagles offense!! I can't win with myself!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobandweave Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 ESPN shows this was the play in question occurred on 2nd and 6 at PHI 25 (1:53 - 4th) Chris Thompson 25 Yard Rush (Pass formation) TWO-POINT CONVERSION ATTEMPT. K.Cousins pass to J.Reed is incomplete. ATTEMPT FAILS. And this was the play right after the 2 minute warning. We know that the Eagles had only a single time out prior to this play. If he doesn't run for the TD there they can't stop the clock on us and we could run it down to 1 second before calling our 3rd and final TO. If you don't take the points then you put the game into the hands of the kicker, who on that day made 3 for 3 on XP but missed his only FG attempt. Over the past three games he is 5/8 on FG tried and 7/7 on XP tries. Personally your looking at a game winning FG at the end of regulation in Philadelphia for a kicker who hasn't made every game winning kick this season (Bengals game), it should be an easy call - Take the FG and run out the clock - However with him missing that earlier kick you have to weigh this to the favor of getting the TD because 1. We get the lead 2. We don't rely on a kicker who we don't know if he will make it or not 3. Getting a TD means they have to get a TD to win I'll take the TD every time, when teams are forced to pass it should make the job easier for a Defense, "should" being a key word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted December 12, 2016 Author Share Posted December 12, 2016 1 minute ago, Bigmuss1 said: I was so excited we scored, it didn't dawn on me about kneeling until we kicked the ball to the eagles offense!! I can't win with myself!! I'm still traumatized by the Detroit game from earlier this year and the Dallas game from last year. Hell, when we scored against Detroit we were down by 3. I was perfectly fine risking a chance to take the lead knowing that we could hold the ball until the end and, at worst, kick the game-tying FG. With this D and this O, we are at our best with the ball and in striking distance...not protecting anything smaller than a 7-point lead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 This team? I trust the kicker more than the Defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted December 12, 2016 Author Share Posted December 12, 2016 2 minutes ago, bobandweave said: ESPN shows this was the play in question occurred on 2nd and 6 at PHI 25 (1:53 - 4th) Chris Thompson 25 Yard Rush (Pass formation) TWO-POINT CONVERSION ATTEMPT. K.Cousins pass to J.Reed is incomplete. ATTEMPT FAILS. And this was the play right after the 2 minute warning. We know that the Eagles had only a single time out prior to this play. If he doesn't run for the TD there they can't stop the clock on us and we could run it down to 1 second before calling our 3rd and final TO. If you don't take the points then you put the game into the hands of the kicker, who on that day made 3 for 3 on XP but missed his only FG attempt. Over the past three games he is 5/8 on FG tried and 7/7 on XP tries. Personally your looking at a game winning FG at the end of regulation in Philadelphia for a kicker who hasn't made every game winning kick this season (Bengals game), it should be an easy call - Take the TD and make the Defense hold. Problem is we know this Defense isn't good enough to just hold. I still think the TD was the right play because 1. We get the lead 2. We don't rely on a kicker 3. Getting a TD means they have to get a TD to win I'll take the TD every time, when teams are forced to pass it should make the job easier for a Defense, "should" being a key word. If you combine your two kick categories it's 12/15 (80%). Even using that figure, which is VERY conservative, I would trust that over stopping the Eagles with 1:45 and 1 timeout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ksun247 Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 I would gladly take the TD. Our defense scares me and our kicker is kinda shaky right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diehard Otis Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 1 minute ago, RFK Lives said: I believe in always taking the TD...I might feel differently if a FG will beat you but in this instance the Eagles needed a TD to win. I also feel that it really does send a message to the defense that you don't trust them. Maybe they don't. However, given that you are on the road in a division game and your kicker has struggled recently and your long snapper recently had a back injury, I think you take a TD whenever it presents itself. If you can't trust your defense to stop them than you are just preventing the inevitable and extending your season for a week. In turn, given the positive result yesterday, the defense may build off this momentum. We should certainly have enough film of teams driving on us at the end of the game that one would hope we could make some positive adjustments for the upcoming week. RFK Lives nailed it. I take the Touchdown too. I agree entirely with his post, but let me also add that (while I still trust Hopkins) funny things happen in the Kicking Game. In fact, we saw Philly suffer one of those quirky Field Goal Snap mishaps. It would be a very tough pill to swallow watching The Team play for the 3 Points, and then botch the attempt (that happened in the Seattle/Arizona game too, resulting in a tie). Take the Touchdown - although it doesn't seem like it sometimes, it does increase the degree of difficulty for the Opposing Team's Offense. Those 3 Points are no guarantee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted December 12, 2016 Author Share Posted December 12, 2016 1 minute ago, Diehard Otis said: RFK Lives nailed it. I take the Touchdown too. I agree entirely with his post, but let me also add that (while I still trust Hopkins) funny things happen in the Kicking Game. In fact, we saw Philly suffer one of those quirky Field Goal Snap mishaps. It would be a very tough pill to swallow watching The Team play for the 3 Points, and then botch the attempt (that happened in the Seattle/Arizona game too, resulting in a tie). Take the Touchdown - although it doesn't seem like it sometimes, it does increase the degree of difficulty for the Opposing Team's Offense. Those 3 Points are no guarantee. No guarantees - I agree. But when you look at the percentages, those bad plays are factored in. You can also mitigate that by lining up for a FG on third down. Here's how they could have played it if they had determined ahead of time to stay out of the end zone.... 2nd and 6: Thompson slides down around the 3-4 yard line. 1st and goal: Run the ball trying to score. 2nd and goal: Run the ball (centering it). 3rd and goal: Kick the FG 4th and goal: Kick the FG (if anything weird happens with the snap or hold on 3rd down) Even if you leave 20 seconds on the clock, the Eagles have no realistic way to beat you despite the smaller lead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickyJ Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 I'd take the touchdown. Hopkins is not to be relied on if we can help it, even if the defense is dangerously bad itself. I could have sworn we played for a field goal in London and paid dearly for it. We ripped them for it after the game, and I'd rip them for it again if they did it this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzSkinsFan63 Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 Normally I always want the TD..but this defense is just not good at keeping teams out of the end zone..Thompson should have gotten down at around the 2 or 3 yard line..Skins should have taken it down to last seconds and kicked the game winner. If Hopkins misses we deserve to lose period! Totally different story with a better defense but we have teams going for it on 4th down deep in their own territory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted December 12, 2016 Author Share Posted December 12, 2016 2 minutes ago, NickyJ said: I'd take the touchdown. Hopkins is not to be relied on if we can help it, even if the defense is dangerously bad itself. I could have sworn we played for a field goal in London and paid dearly for it. We ripped them for it after the game, and I'd rip them for it again if they did it this time. 1) I didn't rip them for playing for a FG with time running down in overtime 2) I'm all about maximizing our chance to win a game...the percentages favor running out the clock and kicking a 25-yard FG over going up by 5 and hoping the D suddenly discovers how to cover TEs over the middle Be honest - when the Eagles were driving, did you really believe the game would end well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petey hodge Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 Bird in the hand.... take the TD. Anyone else remember the bengals game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted December 12, 2016 Author Share Posted December 12, 2016 1 minute ago, petey hodge said: Bird in the hand.... take the TD. Anyone else remember the bengals game? Of course I do, but I also remember the Dallas MNF game this time last year and the Detroit game a couple months ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsailand Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 13 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said: 2nd and 6: Thompson slides down around the 3-4 yard line. He could just as easily slide down at the 1 yard line. From there, I think you should kneel on 1st down and try to score on 2nd down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diehard Otis Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 2 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said: No guarantees - I agree. But when you look at the percentages, those bad plays are factored in. You can also mitigate that by lining up for a FG on third down. Here's how they could have played it if they had determined ahead of time to stay out of the end zone.... 2nd and 6: Thompson slides down around the 3-4 yard line. 1st and goal: Run the ball trying to score. 2nd and goal: Run the ball (centering it). 3rd and goal: Kick the FG 4th and goal: Kick the FG (if anything weird happens with the snap or hold on 3rd down) Even if you leave 20 seconds on the clock, the Eagles have no realistic way to beat you despite the smaller lead. I understand your point TD. But in the context of Sunday's game, I disagree with this strategy you promote. Now far be it from me to divine Jay Gruden's thinking in the moment, however, Sunday's tilt represented us (as a fledgling Contender) paying a visit to an inferior Division Rival in a Must-Win scenario. In such a circumstance, you beat them. Obviously, right? But how you beat them also matters here. As for Sunday, Gruden played it correctly in getting the Touchdown & handing the responsibility to The Defense to preserve the Win. Putting our Season in their hands gives them confidence. And they rewarded his faith by succeeding in that moment. I say his strategy was correct because had he played for the Field Goal and Won, he would have implicitly communicated that we can't hope to Win if our Defense is on The Field at crunch time. And that would be a mistake. But if that were a Playoff Game, then I would be more open to your strategy. In The PostSeason, every team is high quality and can beat you when given any opportunity. If he elected to play keep away from, say Atlanta or Seattle, I'd have no problem with it. Does that make sense? 7 minutes ago, NickyJ said: I'd take the touchdown. Hopkins is not to be relied on if we can help it, even if the defense is dangerously bad itself. I could have sworn we played for a field goal in London and paid dearly for it. I believe he did. And yes, he did learn from that! And I was pleased to see his growth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chew Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 Because we were so far out (ball was in the 25?), I didn't even think about Thompson going down at the 1 during that run until during the commercial break. Hindsight being what it is, would've been nice if he did, tho. Because watching that Eagles drive did a number on all of us I'm sure. Had Thompson gone down at the 1, I'd give it to Kelley twice right up the gut. Eagles probably call their TO after the first attempt if we don't get in. If Kelley doesn't score on 1st & 2nd down, kick the FG on 3rd down, that way you're good if something "Redskins" happens on the snap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted December 12, 2016 Author Share Posted December 12, 2016 1 minute ago, youngchew said: Because we were so far out (ball was in the 25?), I didn't even think about Thompson going down at the 1 during that run until during the commercial break. Hindsight being what it is, would've been nice if he did, tho. Because watching that Eagles drive did a number on all of us I'm sure. Had Thompson gone down at the 1, I'd give it to Kelley twice right up the gut. Eagles probably call their TO after the first attempt if we don't get in. If Kelley doesn't score on 1st & 2nd down, kick the FG on 3rd down, that way you're good if something "Redskins" happens on the snap. I would take it further...it does you no good to fall down at the 1 if you score on the next play. I would take a knee or something at least once to burn clock. Ideally, you can try to score eventually, but melting time is the primary goal there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobandweave Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 21 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said: No guarantees - I agree. But when you look at the percentages, those bad plays are factored in. You can also mitigate that by lining up for a FG on third down. Here's how they could have played it if they had determined ahead of time to stay out of the end zone.... 2nd and 6: Thompson slides down around the 3-4 yard line. 1st and goal: Run the ball trying to score. 2nd and goal: Run the ball (centering it). 3rd and goal: Kick the FG 4th and goal: Kick the FG (if anything weird happens with the snap or hold on 3rd down) Even if you leave 20 seconds on the clock, the Eagles have no realistic way to beat you despite the smaller lead. On 3rd down if he shanks the FG then its a turnover on downs. You only get one chance to kick a FG, you know this just saying for everyone. I get what your saying but on the road, give me the TD. Home game I'm going for the FG. Difference? Familiarity with the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattlesnake88 Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 Had he just kneeled we would have kicked it in and won the game. Wait, we won regardless. Beat Carolina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted December 12, 2016 Author Share Posted December 12, 2016 1 minute ago, bobandweave said: On 3rd down if he shanks the FG then its a turnover on downs. You only get one chance to kick a FG, you know this just saying for everyone. I get what your saying but on the road, give me the TD. Home game I'm going for the FG. Difference? Familiarity with the field. I didn't mean you could re-kick...simply that you could make up for a bad snap or hold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobandweave Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 11 minutes ago, AzSkinsFan63 said: Normally I always want the TD..but this defense is just not good at keeping teams out of the end zone..Thompson should have gotten down at around the 2 or 3 yard line..Skins should have taken it down to last seconds and kicked the game winner. If Hopkins misses we deserve to lose period! If he misses the kick there, in that sequence of events it would be really bad for him. In a way we protected our Kicker by not doing this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USS Redskins Posted December 12, 2016 Share Posted December 12, 2016 unfortunately they just dont trust hopkins anymore. he went from stud to dud. London has jinxed him... he is just unreliable now. It seems the skins arent allowed to have a solid kicker for any more than a season or so. I have been waiting for Kerrigan to make that play for years... Finally!!!! the play to end the game!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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