The 2017 FA Thread - OP Updated with Signings (Sundberg, Galette, VD, Hood re-signed) *** Terrell McClain, Stacy McGee, DJ Swearinger, Terrelle Pryor, Chris Carter, Brian Quick, ZACH BROWN(!!)***

[Est.1974]

Once the lid is lifted on Hankins, I'd imagine numerous teams will chase him hard. I'm setting the bar low right now.....we sign a cheap vet to act as DT/NT placeholder whilst our mid round drafted rookie develops.

[RabidFan]

Chris Nield 2.0

[grego]

Does the team actually have interest in Hankins? I don't recall hearing either way. 

[fordranger76]

28 minutes ago, moondog said:

 

My counterargument: Would you rather have these two average players, or one of Logan/Hankins? I can tell you my answer is the latter. 

It is not a matter of would you rather. When you need depth all over the line and one guy costs 8 to 10 million things become a lot more hard to fit into the puzzle. Of course I would take Logan/Hankins but not at a future cost of losing Moses, Scheffr, or Cousins a year or two later.

[thebeermonkey]

12 hours ago, Morneblade said:

 

 

Oh, I know. Apparently he didn't, and then was an asshat about it. I was coming to your defense. He was snarky for no reason, and at the same time looks like a dunce because what you said was obvious, and he got it completely wrong.

Apologies!

[Est.1974]

20 minutes ago, grego said:

Does the team actually have interest in Hankins? I don't recall hearing either way. 

Speculated interest that we'd bring him in around the time we had Logan in. So no probably haha.

[William Barbour]

I really hope we dont go aftet Hankins. I would much rather coach up Lanier, Leonnadis, and whoever we draft this year. If we cant coach these guys up. Why are we drafting them? 

[RabidFan]

Leonnadis?  We have one from Sparta on the roster?  Sweet

[elkabong82]

15 hours ago, TheShredder said:

Norman wasn't cheap.  I believe that was last year.

 

Over-spending in FA doesn't seem to workout well except for the Giants. 

 

I was talking about in general. 1 exception, and for an elite player arguably the best at his position, does not erase the general trend.

[DC9]

3 hours ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:

 

Unless he was calling a female a belter, as in 'Belter that girl <hot tart her like>', then the lad is indeed a bellend. But then he's a wool anyways coming from Hull. (And probably inbred. Yeah, I went there. Sue me Hull fella' with yers antwacky 1950's 'style' that makes Leeds lads look modern! O hey Marty lad. Never seen yers there. .).  So he has enough problems to start with. 

 

Belter- Good.

 

Me: Like me new Adidas trabs lad? ..... You: Or ay. Belter them lid. Nice one. How much like?

 

Bellend. Self-explanatory. Quite literally a dick. 

 

Like you r kid. With yers 'defenCe.' (NO S!). God forbid yuse ever end up in an English court. (Which the Hull bellend would tell you is quite possible as the lazy Scouse stereotype goes.). 

 

 

 

So about these Redskins ..... 

 

Hail. 

 

We'd just finished talking about Martinez taking over as the Belgian manager and how their spine is the best in the world, to include their midfielder who plays at Roma and has scored "a belter a game for the last month it seems."  Yeah, he's mixed up... gave me some anti-Scouse shtick and I asked him to stick his chin out a little further and he backed off.  Newbies... what are you gonna do?  Like, just say you're wrong and move on... I'm pretty sure you don't need to test the Yank with the LFC scarf and the Shankley Gates up over his desk but I digress.

 

Saw an Article today when I woke up that we're "just about done in FA...."  My heart stopped.  I get that we have some solid picks, but for ****'s sake if we don't spend this money OR do an LTD I'm going to be very disappointed.

47 minutes ago, grego said:

Does the team actually have interest in Hankins? I don't recall hearing either way. 

 

They're thinking the Giants are going to re-sign him and it looks like that was the plan all along.  They were just trying to make some room first, I guess.  Unless I'm behind again on that.

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, William Barbour said:

I really hope we dont go aftet Hankins. I would much rather coach up Lanier, Leonnadis, and whoever we draft this year. If we cant coach these guys up. Why are we drafting them? 

Wtf does coach um up mean? Either they're talented and driven enough to play or they're not.

 

Iaoniddias was a late round after thought of a pick, but they never seem to mention him. Only got in the game last year because of injuries. 

 

I don't know where Lanier came from, but they bring him up a lot. 

 

I hope they both work out.

[elkabong82]

15 hours ago, Morneblade said:

HTTR covered this, and so did I. I offer stats (which you don't like, whaaa!) and he offered several evaluations with other advanced stats.

 

You have nothing. You offer "We know Baker and RJF are not" and "McGee is an upgrade over RJF and McClain is an upgrade over Baker. It's the reason those two were brought in and it is an improvement in terms of stopping the run. Even if you don't love the signings, this can't be denied."

 

Edited for BS

 

 

Where was it covered? I missed those posts obviously. Again, spare the attitude because you're not in a position where you've earned it. I said for run stoppers stats don't tell the whole story, and that is true. I've posted on here long enough and frequent enough to where anyone familiar with me knows I'm typically all about stats. Unfortunately there is no stat for stopping the run and holding the line, other than team run defense results. Maybe try and understand my point (it was an obvious one) instead of trying to do stupid comments like "stats, whaaa," because in doing so it shows you aren't considering my points and just trying to attack. I mean, we're talking about 2 different types of linemen and you mention nothing about their games and instead trot out stats despite knowing that run stuffers don't accummulate them. Between that and only looking at negatives for the new guys, your posts are starting to reek of pre-determined conclusions.

 

Really, I have nothing? Give me a freakin break. I've gone into considerable detail about defense philosophy shifts and why the strengths of these new players reflects that more than the guys they replaced. You still, after multiple posts, have yet to address ANY of that. The rest of your post is just petty BS that clearly shows you don't understand/refuse to acknowledge why these new guys were brought in, you determined immediately upon their signing they weren't any good from just one google search on their stats, and anybody who disagrees with you you're not going to address their arguments, instead you're going to use the tone of a prick and ramble on and on about how the previous guys are better with noting substantive behind it. 

 

I'll sum up my argument: The defense has needed to improve run defense for some time now. Both DL brought in are run stoppers and all reports on them say this and that they are good at holding the line. The two guys they replaced weren't good at that. In that regard, the new DL are an improvement. Likely we lose some pass rush fro the DL unless we draft pressure guys, but at least last season we were 9th in sacks which is good and not much came from the DL anyway. Still want pressure from the DL, but team has shown OLBs can create it. Other than that this convo is done. If you think these guys aren't going to be better at run stop, share why based on their play. If you once again won't actually address this and just want to throw a bunch of attitude my way because I dared to disagree after seeing you post over and over that Baker and RJF are better, period (and I'm not the only one who called you out for being so arbitrary), then save yourself the time and move on because any reply like that from you I won't respond to anymore, it'd be a waste of time and only for the sake of posturing, which I don't really care about.

[Koolblue13]

@DC9, I don't know what that first paragraph was, but I'll assume it's soccer. You people (yes, you people) have a place for that kind of talk.

[DC9]

Just now, Koolblue13 said:

@DC9, I don't know what that first paragraph was, but I'll assume it's soccer. You people (yes, you people) have a place for that kind of talk.

 

My bad.

 

 

It's just starting to get to me.  Last year's theme was "Building a Champion," and this year's was "We SHOULD Be Ready To Contend...."  And these moves don't inspire me.

 

 

6 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Wtf does coach um up mean? Either they're talented and driven enough to play or they're not.

 

Iaoniddias was a late round after thought of a pick, but they never seem to mention him. Only got in the game last year because of injuries. 

 

I don't know where Lanier came from, but they bring him up a lot. 

 

I hope they both work out.

 

I will say Tomsula is the Callahan of d-line coaches in the NFL.  But he needs more than **** on shingles to make a tasty breakfast for us.

 

I have hopes for Ioaniddias, but these other cats, oye...

 

 

[Koolblue13]

@elkabong82 how do we know if we've earned it? Is there extra tokens for the staff lounge? Maybe some boom beach diamonds? How many ES achievements do we have to unlock to earn that?

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, DC9 said:

 

 

It's just starting to get to me.  Last year's theme was "Building a Champion," and this year's was "We SHOULD Be Ready To Contend...."  And these moves don't inspire me.

 

 

 

I will say Tomsula is the Callahan of d-line coaches in the NFL.  But he needs more than **** on shingles to make a tasty breakfast for us.

 

I have hopes for Ioaniddias, but these other cats, oye...

 

 

I really do like our coaches. WTF though man. We were right there. 2 years in the middle, only a couple holes, but very obvious holes and what do they do? **** it up. 

 

Still on pause with Kirk. ****ing trade him or sign him, but get it done. Another back up safety. The line is worse and nothing but confidence in our ILBs. 

 

We had a **** load of money. We could have nailed it. Nope.

[Morneblade]

12 minutes ago, elkabong82 said:

 

Where was it covered? I missed those posts obviously. Again, spare the attitude because you're not in a position where you've earned it. I said for run stoppers stats don't tell the whole story, and that is true. I've posted on here long enough and frequent enough to where anyone familiar with me knows I'm typically all about stats. Unfortunately there is no stat for stopping the run and holding the line, other than team run defense results. Maybe try and understand my point (it was an obvious one) instead of trying to do stupid comments like "stats, whaaa," because in doing so it shows you aren't considering my points and just trying to attack. I mean, we're talking about 2 different types of linemen and you mention nothing about their games and instead trot out stats despite knowing that run stuffers don't accummulate them. Between that and only looking at negatives for the new guys, your posts are starting to reek of pre-determined conclusions.

 

Really, I have nothing? Give me a freakin break. I've gone into considerable detail about defense philosophy shifts and why the strengths of these new players reflects that more than the guys they replaced. You still, after multiple posts, have yet to address ANY of that. The rest of your post is just petty BS that clearly shows you don't understand/refuse to acknowledge why these new guys were brought in, you determined immediately upon their signing they weren't any good from just one google search on their stats, and anybody who disagrees with you you're not going to address their arguments, instead you're going to use the tone of a prick and ramble on and on about how the previous guys are better with noting substantive behind it. 

 

I'll sum up my argument: The defense has needed to improve run defense for some time now. Both DL brought in are run stoppers and all reports on them say this and that they are good at holding the line. The two guys they replaced weren't good at that. In that regard, the new DL are an improvement. Likely we lose some pass rush fro the DL unless we draft pressure guys, but at least last season we were 9th in sacks which is good and not much came from the DL anyway. Still want pressure from the DL, but team has shown OLBs can create it. Other than that this convo is done. If you think these guys aren't going to be better at run stop, share why based on their play. If you once again won't actually address this and just want to throw a bunch of attitude my way because I dared to disagree after seeing you post over and over that Baker and RJF are better, period (and I'm not the only one who called you out for being so arbitrary), then save yourself the time and move on because any reply like that from you I won't respond to anymore, it'd be a waste of time and only for the sake of posturing, which I don't really care about.

 

So, you got nothing, just what you want to believe and nothing to back it up. And I'm supposed to  just roll with that. And you are the one that brought the "tone" to this conversation with your original comment by being a jackass. But yes, let's be done with this.

[elkabong82]

4 minutes ago, DC9 said:

 

My bad.

 

It's just starting to get to me.  Last year's theme was "Building a Champion," and this year's was "We SHOULD Be Ready To Contend...."  And these moves don't inspire me.

 

 

 

Look at the Patriots though. This year they've made some big moves, sure. But most years they acquire mid-tier, uninspiring free agents and some pan out and some don't. Chris Hogan, LeGarrette Blount, Wes Welker, just to name a few. None were big signings, but they fit the system and did well. I think that is part of free agency that many (not saying you or anyone in particular) overlook, which is system fit. Track record gets overly focused on and if the Pats had done that they wouldn't have signed those guys. 

 

A bunch of big splashes typically doesn't work and kills depth and player retention. However, doing nothing but lower tier signings, while it may yield some positive results, isn't going to give you consistent success. You need to do like the Pats and get the top self guys wo will work in your system when they become available, but with more focus on the lower-tier guys who can do better in a better fit. Our DL picks may seem uninspired, but they should help us improve run defense which we sorely need. Pryor could be a big step up in red zone production, which we sorely need. Swearinger and Su'a should provide better safety play.

 

Plus, there's still lots of free agency to go. 

[HTTRDynasty]

19 minutes ago, elkabong82 said:

 

Where was it covered? I missed those posts obviously. Again, spare the attitude because you're not in a position where you've earned it. I said for run stoppers stats don't tell the whole story, and that is true. I've posted on here long enough and frequent enough to where anyone familiar with me knows I'm typically all about stats. Unfortunately there is no stat for stopping the run and holding the line, other than team run defense results. Maybe try and understand my point (it was an obvious one) instead of trying to do stupid comments like "stats, whaaa," because in doing so it shows you aren't considering my points and just trying to attack. I mean, we're talking about 2 different types of linemen and you mention nothing about their games and instead trot out stats despite knowing that run stuffers don't accummulate them. Between that and only looking at negatives for the new guys, your posts are starting to reek of pre-determined conclusions.

 

Really, I have nothing? Give me a freakin break. I've gone into considerable detail about defense philosophy shifts and why the strengths of these new players reflects that more than the guys they replaced. You still, after multiple posts, have yet to address ANY of that. The rest of your post is just petty BS that clearly shows you don't understand/refuse to acknowledge why these new guys were brought in, you determined immediately upon their signing they weren't any good from just one google search on their stats, and anybody who disagrees with you you're not going to address their arguments, instead you're going to use the tone of a prick and ramble on and on about how the previous guys are better with noting substantive behind it. 

 

I'll sum up my argument: The defense has needed to improve run defense for some time now. Both DL brought in are run stoppers and all reports on them say this and that they are good at holding the line. The two guys they replaced weren't good at that. In that regard, the new DL are an improvement. Likely we lose some pass rush fro the DL unless we draft pressure guys, but at least last season we were 9th in sacks which is good and not much came from the DL anyway. Still want pressure from the DL, but team has shown OLBs can create it. Other than that this convo is done. If you think these guys aren't going to be better at run stop, share why based on their play. If you once again won't actually address this and just want to throw a bunch of attitude my way because I dared to disagree after seeing you post over and over that Baker and RJF are better, period (and I'm not the only one who called you out for being so arbitrary), then save yourself the time and move on because any reply like that from you I won't respond to anymore, it'd be a waste of time and only for the sake of posturing, which I don't really care about.

 

He is referring to my post below, which you never saw I guess:
 

Quote

Why am I now seeing this narrative that Baker was a terrible run defender?  He shouldn't be penalized just because the defense as a whole was terrible against the run.

 

I would love to see some stats to back up this claim. 

 

Here are some blurbs about Baker's "terrible run defense":

 

After the 2015 Season:

 

“In his fourth season in Washington, Baker set a career-high in every statistical category, finishing 22nd among interior defensive linemen with an 82.7 overall grade in 2015,” said Eager. “Equally solid as a run-defender (81.9) and pass-rusher (81.1), Baker helped a defense that went from dead last in the league in total grades in 2014 to one that helped Washington make the playoffs for the first time since 2012. Among 3-4 defensive ends, he was fifth in run-stop percentage (10.6) and 12th in pass-rushing productivity (9.1). His run-stop percentage was 0.1 ahead of J.J. Watt last season, while his pass-rushing productivity was higher than the more-financially-rewarded Derek Wolfe (Broncos), Cam Heyward (Steelers), Jaye Howard (Chiefs), and Corey Liuget (Chargers).”

 

 

After the 2016 Season:

 

16. Chris Baker, DI, Washington Redskins (82.2)
Baker may get pigeonholed as a run-stuffer, but he’s far more than that. He has back-to-back 40-plus pressure seasons while also stopping the run at an extremely high level. Those are fantastic numbers for a guy with the versatility to line up anywhere along the interior.

 

 

And another one after 2016...

 

7. Chris Baker, DI

Baker has been extremely impressive for Washington over the past two seasons, and has seen his playing time ramped up in response. Last year saw him on the field for a career-high 782 snaps, and also match his career high in total pressures with 42, while posting the best grade in run defense of his career. Baker is a big body that has shown the ability to play all three downs and be a factor against the run and pass over the past two years, and could be a big addition to some team’s defensive line in more ways than one.

 

 

[elkabong82]

8 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

@elkabong82 how do we know if we've earned it? Is there extra tokens for the staff lounge? Maybe some boom beach diamonds? How many ES achievements do we have to unlock to earn that?

 

If you have to ask then you haven't earned it. 

[Morneblade]

53 minutes ago, William Barbour said:

I really hope we dont go aftet Hankins. I would much rather coach up Lanier, Leonnadis, and whoever we draft this year. If we cant coach these guys up. Why are we drafting them? 

Lanier is a DE in a 3-4

Matt Ioannidis was not even 300 pounds last year, he needs to put some weight on before we can really think about him playing NT.

[carex]

12 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

Lanier is a DE in a 3-4

Matt Ioannidis was not even 300 pounds last year, he needs to put some weight on before we can really think about him playing NT.

 

he's listed at 308 now on Redskins.com

[Jericho]

8 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

Lanier is a DE in a 3-4

Matt Ioannidis was not even 300 pounds last year, he needs to put some weight on before we can really think about him playing NT.

 

This. And also the fact Lanier wasn't even drafted. So a late fifth rounder and an UDFA are apparently the "plan" in some fan's eyes

[HTTRDynasty]

By the way, Chris Baker played 782 snaps last season, which was 71.2% of our team's snaps on defense - far more than most D Linemen have to play.  McClain only played 471 snaps, which was  44.6% of his team's defensive snaps, and McGee only played 220 defensive snaps, which was 21% of his team's defensive snaps.

 

Baker's 71.2% of defensive snaps was 28th in the league in terms of defensive linemen, and most of the guys in front of him weigh far less than he does.  I think he can be forgiven for not playing with his hair on fire every snap.  Most players' impact lessens as they tire out from playing so many snaps.  That is the case with most fat boys in this league.  You just don't realize it because you don't watch all 16 games of each team in the league.

 

RJF had 442 defensive snaps (40.2%) as a rotational player by the way, which is extremely close to McClain's snap count and percentage and far outpaces McGee's snap count.  Hard to believe McClain and McGee can replace Baker's and RJF's production when their total snap counts have never gotten close. 

[elkabong82]

2 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

He is referring to my post below, which you never saw I guess:
 

 

 

Thank you for sharing. I did miss that. Do you happen to have any of PFF's DL rankings? Not many break down DL contributions on an individual basis but I think they do.

 

What I've seen for 2 years straight with Baker is an inconsistent motor and getting pushed back in critical moments. There's also the infamous photo of him celebrating instead of going for a fumbled ball. I don't recall many, if any, on here touting Baker for is run stopping skills. What he has been touted for is pass rush. Could the general consensus be wrong? Yes. DL tend to get lumped in to a group and if the group is bad at something then the natural inclination is that each player is also bad at it. But this isn't always the case. That's why I'd like to see position rankings vs. the run more so than a couple free agency snippets. 

 

You'd think that other than age there would be reasons the Skins went with new guys over Baker. McClain I see a better motor and IMO a clear upgrade in run defense based on his play and that he was part of a team that was top 10 in stopping the run, he was a starter for them, and there weren't any big standouts on the line to where others' jobs were easier. 

 

From same group, PFF, they ranked our front 7 at 21st and said our weak interior ruined the OLBs, and Baker is a part of the interior. I know Baker was rated well after 2015 both in pass rush and run stop, but so was our overall DL. Though Hatcher, Paea, and Knighton weren't major contributors they collectively did form a better DL than what we had this season. Maybe that is why the team decided to move on, because Baker isn't the guy to elevate the play of those around him (speculation on my part). 

 

If anyone has PFF access, it would be great to see where the new and old DL rank in terms of run stopping (already know they are a step down in pass rush).