Going Commando Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Gamebreaker said: It does bear similarities to Buffy in dialogue and it's cast of characters, but hey, Buffy isn't considered one of the best shows ever for nothing. Agents has been way more enjoyable than the cookie cutter, by the numbers, filler episodes to prop up the movies kind of show it was in the first season. I have a weird taste where I greatly admire Joss Whedon's work and think he is brilliant and a master writer... except for the fact that I really don't like Buffy and Angel. I acknowledge that smart people of excellent taste love those shows, Buffy in particular. They just get on my nerves and for some reason I can't believe them. I don't know how to describe it other than that there are little ticks and details throughout the shows that kill the illusion for me. People behaving in brainy and unnatural ways. And Agents of SHIELD got to be that way for me, and I also don't think it's as good as Buffy was. I quit watching at the end of the second season. I didn't really click with any of the male characters and Fitz and Simmons became annoying. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 But do you watch Legion? That **** is insanity. And awesomeness. And more insanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 (edited) 21 hours ago, Destino said: It has to happen though. An essential component of telling an infiltration story line is that someone has to have been an imposter long before anyone became aware of it. It wouldn't surprise me if Marvel already put clues into moves we've seen, but in a way that isn't recognizable until after they reveal some information that makes those scenes significant. The thing confusing to me is that I could swear Nick Fury told Thor that his arrival let them know they were not alone in the universe. Yet clearly they knew about Skrulls and Cap Marvel. EDIT: found it From Avengers (2012) Bruce Banner: I'd like to know why SHIELD is using the Tesseract to build weapons of mass destruction. Nick Fury: Because of him! [points at Thor] Thor: Me? Nick Fury: Last year, Earth had a visiter from another planet that had a grudge match that leveled a small town. We learned that not only are we not alone, but we are hopelessly...hilariously, outgunned. Thor: My people want nothing but peace with your planet! Nick Fury: But you're not the only ones out there, are you? And you're not the only threat. The world is filling up with people that can't be matched, that can't be controlled! Edited September 20, 2018 by Zguy28 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 4 minutes ago, Zguy28 said: The thing confusing to me is that I could swear Nick Fury told Thor that his arrival let them know they were not alone in the universe. Yet clearly they knew about Skrulls and Cap Marvel. I suspect you're just supposed to ignore that happened. lol They probably didnt have this Captain Marvel angle fully planned out. Like, they knew they wanted to include her back then, but having Fury meet her in the 90s was a more recent development. Then they were willing to take the continuity hit for that one line. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 Or maybe Fury was just using Thor as a scapegoat and didn't want to out Captain Marvel? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 41 minutes ago, Zguy28 said: The thing confusing to me is that I could swear Nick Fury told Thor that his arrival let them know they were not alone in the universe. Yet clearly they knew about Skrulls and Cap Marvel. EDIT: found it From Avengers (2012) Bruce Banner: I'd like to know why SHIELD is using the Tesseract to build weapons of mass destruction. Nick Fury: Because of him! [points at Thor] Thor: Me? Nick Fury: Last year, Earth had a visiter from another planet that had a grudge match that leveled a small town. We learned that not only are we not alone, but we are hopelessly...hilariously, outgunned. Thor: My people want nothing but peace with your planet! Nick Fury: But you're not the only ones out there, are you? And you're not the only threat. The world is filling up with people that can't be matched, that can't be controlled! You're forgetting that Nick Fury is a career intelligence officer that runs a secret government organization. He lied. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 (edited) I think this having plotholes is something that is inescapable. I don't know how far ahead they planned all this around the time they signed Robert Downey Jr and started filming Iron Man, but I find it hard to imagine they had Captain Marvel in their plans way back then. That's so long ago I'm not even sure Captain Marvel was Captain Marvel. Edited September 20, 2018 by Mr. Sinister Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 Fury also said the last time he trusted somebody, he lost an eye. Perhaps that will wind up being a reference to a Skrull imposter turning on him. 1 minute ago, Mr. Sinister said: I think this having plotholes is something that is inescapable. I don't know how far ahead they planned all this around the time they signed Robert Downey Jr and started filming Iron Man, but I find it hard to imagine they had Captain Marvel in their plans way back then. That's so long ago I'm not even sure Captain Marvel was Captain Marvel. I agree. And I'm pretty forgiving about those kinds of details. It's a plot hole I can live with. I feel like they keep it mostly together overall. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 The MCU has been pretty good, even with their mistakes (I guess by good I mean they weren't crucified for them, and were able/allowed to rebound), so I doubt they'll screw it up. It'll be hard to disappoint me for sure, seeing as I have no earthly concept of this character. I did do a quick Marvel wiki glance a few months ago, and it seems this character was made for the #MeToo movement, which is pretty cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 Question, one of the enduring themes of X-men in cartoons, movies, and comic books is the anti-mutant sentiment and dystopian (for mutants) future. They're always fighting to keep mutants from being enslaved or slaughtered. These mutants exist in the same universe as the Avengers and the non-mutant heroes. Does that mean that earths other heroes sided with the anti-mutant movement or at least stood aside and allowed it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 2 hours ago, Destino said: You're forgetting that Nick Fury is a career intelligence officer that runs a secret government organization. He lied. Beat me to it. Literally did it with Paulson's cards in that same movie to keep the Avengers from splitting up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Destino said: Question, one of the enduring themes of X-men in cartoons, movies, and comic books is the anti-mutant sentiment and dystopian (for mutants) future. They're always fighting to keep mutants from being enslaved or slaughtered. These mutants exist in the same universe as the Avengers and the non-mutant heroes. Does that mean that earths other heroes sided with the anti-mutant movement or at least stood aside and allowed it? Isn't this answered in Secret Wars somewhere? I always thought they kinda stayed out of each others way, except to fight Galactus/The Beyonder, where several X-Men joined their ranks. I always felt like the X-Men goal wasn't necessarily always to save the world, rather save it from itself when it got in over it's head. Edited September 20, 2018 by Mr. Sinister Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Destino said: Question, one of the enduring themes of X-men in cartoons, movies, and comic books is the anti-mutant sentiment and dystopian (for mutants) future. They're always fighting to keep mutants from being enslaved or slaughtered. These mutants exist in the same universe as the Avengers and the non-mutant heroes. Does that mean that earths other heroes sided with the anti-mutant movement or at least stood aside and allowed it? 1 minute ago, Mr. Sinister said: Isn't this answered in Secret Wars somewhere? I always thought they kinda stayed out of each others way, except to fight Galactus/The Beyonder, where several X-Men joined their ranks Had a convo with the truest of true comic book fans at my last job about this, he said that the worlds are mixed but the characters are so deep and complex that they have their own **** to deal with. Does Spiderman really need Wolverine to show up when he has Venom's help to go after Carnage? The relationship between Spiderman and Venom is parament to the story of how they dealt with that, adding other characters unneccesarily woulda just made it weird. But there is definitely a lot of overlaping, crossover, and comeos in the comics, like Madam Web was a Mutant. A lot of mutants from what I could tell if they could just blend in to keep from any drama, they did. X-Men not being much of a factor in Civil War made sense as the premise was Superheros with secret identities and register with the government if they wanted to keep being superheros. Mutants were already known via the Mutant Registration Act, which was different then the Superhuman Registration Act that was center of Civil War (but between those two was the M-Day event). Edited September 20, 2018 by Renegade7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 2 hours ago, Destino said: You're forgetting that Nick Fury is a career intelligence officer that runs a secret government organization. He lied. That is a plausible retcon explanation but I think justice is right that they hadn't planned out the Captain Marvel arc when Avengers came out. 2 hours ago, Mr. Sinister said: I think this having plotholes is something that is inescapable. I don't know how far ahead they planned all this around the time they signed Robert Downey Jr and started filming Iron Man, but I find it hard to imagine they had Captain Marvel in their plans way back then. That's so long ago I'm not even sure Captain Marvel was Captain Marvel. Yeah there is no way they had it planned out. This was an experiment. They had no way of knowing it would be so successful and that they'd spin this universe into 20 movies and get the rights to all these other characters from Sony and Fox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 Yeah @Renegade7 I figured X-Men and the true Avengers always had conflicting interests, and would never really hit it off unless Magneto/Sinister/Apocalypse were up to some ****, or the entire universe was at stake 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 30 minutes ago, Destino said: Question, one of the enduring themes of X-men in cartoons, movies, and comic books is the anti-mutant sentiment and dystopian (for mutants) future. They're always fighting to keep mutants from being enslaved or slaughtered. These mutants exist in the same universe as the Avengers and the non-mutant heroes. Does that mean that earths other heroes sided with the anti-mutant movement or at least stood aside and allowed it? The Avengers fought a KKK-like organization called the Sons of the Serpent, introduced all the way back in Avengers 32. They would not have sympathized with anti-mutant sentiment. But they didn't solve the problem for the X-Men, as that would have robbed them of key story arcs. This was an allegory for white supremacy, black civil rights, black supremacy, non-violent coexistence of whites and blacks, etc. It was the X-Men's fight. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 @Mr. Sinister I was just thinking the other day that even though next X-Men movie is about Dark Phoenix, Sinister is one of the last big baddies we haven't seen in a live action movie (and there was a clear hint in the post-credits movie of Apocalypse I was watching again the other day that he's going to show up sooner rather then latter). Don't think X-Men need the Avengers to deal with that, but it popped into my head again (that should be interesting). Considering how obsessed he was with Jean and Scott, he could be in Dark Phoenix somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 I also want to say something RE: Wolverine/Hugh Jackman. I don't think movies like the original '00 X-Men and Tobey Spider-Man are given enough credit for ushering in this era of more seriously approached superhero movies. I think fans owe a lot of that to Hugh Jackman and his portrayal of Wolverine. I thought Logan was a good way to put a bow on things, but I still feel like it's an opportunity missed with him hanging it up, seeing as how Deadpool is killing it, and how his chemistry with Reynolds in that one Wolverine origin movie (where he played the unfettered timeline Wade Wilson) was already pretty good. I think both of them together as sort of a Weapon X tag team would probably be worthy of at least a couple movies 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 I remember when Spiderman 2 with Dr. Octopus was the best superhero movie ever made when it came out (First Bale Batman movie didn't come out until the following year). How far we've come, indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: @Mr. Sinister I was just thinking the other day that even though next X-Men movie is about Dark Phoenix, Sinister is one of the last big baddies we haven't seen in a live action movie (and there was a clear hint in the post-credits movie of Apocalypse I was watching again the other day that he's going to show up sooner rather then latter). Don't think X-Men need the Avengers to deal with that, but it popped into my head again (that should be interesting). Considering how obsessed he was with Jean and Scott, he could be in Dark Phoenix somehow. Yeah, not sure how I feel about the current cats over at Fox handling my man Nate. But he needs to be on the big screen. Living embodiment of pure twisted maniacal evil that a lot of villains can't capture. With them there's always some kind of tragic backstory, or they're so powerful they seem almost apathetic to pain and suffering they're inflicting. I almost think a movie with him would need an R rating. It's also why I did not like that Cable has already been used. That's what I wanted him for, either that, or Days of Future Past, and that arc was already borrowed from as well. Edited September 20, 2018 by Mr. Sinister Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Mr. Sinister said: I almost think a movie with him would need an R rating. Agreed they should leave that door open with the success of rated R superhero movies like Logan and the Deadpool movies. It's the same way I feel about Carnage, there's no way you PG-13 that guy, you'd do him no justice whatsoever, leave the kids at home. Holland needs at least a movie or two more before I consider him ready to come close to dealing with that (people get mad when I say I'm tired of spider-boy, but I know Carnage would kill Tom Holland, sorry folks). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 Sinister in a Savage Land movie would be great. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted September 20, 2018 Share Posted September 20, 2018 19 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: That is a plausible retcon explanation but I think justice is right that they hadn't planned out the Captain Marvel arc when Avengers came out. Yeah there is no way they had it planned out. This was an experiment. They had no way of knowing it would be so successful and that they'd spin this universe into 20 movies and get the rights to all these other characters from Sony and Fox. I don't think they specifically planned it, but they had to have known Nick Fury wasn't telling the whole truth. Even if for whatever reason the writers sincerely intended Thor to be SHIELDs first inkling of threats from alien worlds, Fury's claim that they are doing it "because of him" is still absurd. The tesseract was already used for weapons research by HYDRA. SHIELD walked away from WWII with both Dr. Arnim Zola and the tesseract. I'm supposed to believe a military organization just decided that advancing their weapons research was somehow wrong, for no particular reason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TK Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 1 hour ago, Mr. Sinister said: Yeah, not sure how I feel about the current cats over at Fox handling my man Nate. https://comicbook.com/marvel/2018/09/20/disney-ceo-marvel-kevin-feige-taking-over-x-men-franchise/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted September 21, 2018 Share Posted September 21, 2018 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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