The Official "Marvel" Thread (Movies,Comics etc)

[StillUnknown]

7 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

Thinking about this, this morning. Who's been the best bad guys in the 20+ Marvel movies to far?

 

I think Loki, Red Skull, and Killmonger are my top 3 (in no order). I think 2 of the 3 aren't really bad guys either. 

 

Thanos: Just the fact that he had so much to live up to, and they still nailed it

 

Loki: there has been arguably no better casting in all of superhero films

 

Kilmonger: Probably had my favorite backstory which grounded his goals in a somewhat believable cause

Edited August 5, 2018 by StillUnknown

[justice98]

52 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

Infinity war is over 2 billion right? BP is around 1.5 billion the last I saw. 

 

BP was a massive surprise hit but it didn’t outperform IW 

 

I'm just talking domestically.

[justice98]

38 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

Thinking about this, this morning. Who's been the best bad guys in the 20+ Marvel movies to far?

 

I think Loki, Red Skull, and Killmonger are my top 3 (in no order). I think 2 of the 3 aren't really bad guys either. 

 

They all killed too many innocent people to not be bad guys, IMO.  

[Momma There Goes That Man]

27 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

I'm just talking domestically.

 

Oh ok my bad 

1 hour ago, The Evil Genius said:

Thinking about this, this morning. Who's been the best bad guys in the 20+ Marvel movies to far?

 

I think Loki, Red Skull, and Killmonger are my top 3 (in no order). I think 2 of the 3 aren't really bad guys either. 

 

Thanos - So much buildup and it could have easily gone wrong but they hit a grand slam with him in every way. He’s powerful, menacing, dominates every scene he’s in and yet you understand his perspective. I love his dialogue and Brolin nails the character. 

 

Killmonger -  Refreshing, exciting, and very well written and you understand his point of view and can actually sympathize with him though his methods are not acceptable. T’challa acknowledges that Killmonger is right but they have to find a better solution than what’s Killmonger offered 

 

Loki - He’s entertaining 

 

To be fair, those are the only three good ones imo. every other villain has been awful 

Edited August 6, 2018 by Momma There Goes That Man

[StillUnknown]

16 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

 

To be fair, those are the only three good ones imo. every other villain has been awful 

 

If we bring in TV, D'Onofrio as Wilson Fisk was just about perfect

 

Cottonmouth and Bushmaster were great on Luke Cage

[justice98]

For me, Thanos, Winter Soldier, and Killmonger.  I even liked Emil Blonsky/Abomination.

 

42 minutes ago, StillUnknown said:

 

If we bring in TV, D'Onofrio as Wilson Fisk was just about perfect

 

Cottonmouth and Bushmaster were great on Luke Cage

 

If we're doing TV, I'd put Kilgrave up there..

[Momma There Goes That Man]

TV should be a separate ranking. You have an entire season (8-10hrs) to build a villain compared to 2 hours of movie time. 

[Zguy28]

14 hours ago, The Evil Genius said:

Thinking about this, this morning. Who's been the best bad guys in the 20+ Marvel movies to far?

 

I think Loki, Red Skull, and Killmonger are my top 3 (in no order). I think 2 of the 3 aren't really bad guys either. 

Can't leave Thanos out. But yeah, I agree. Hela was pretty BA as well. And what about the unforgettable Justin Hammer?

 

 

[JCB]

So Ant-Man and the Wasp will probably out-earn the Solo flick and fall just short of Justice League. Seriously, a movie with Superman, Batman, WW, Aquaman, all of DC's big guns barely outpaces Ant-Man? I love Ant-Man, but if anything demonstrated Marvel's ownage it's that.

[Mournblade]

19 minutes ago, JCB said:

So Ant-Man and the Wasp will probably out-earn the Solo flick and fall just short of Justice League. Seriously, a movie with Superman, Batman, WW, Aquaman, all of DC's big guns barely outpaces Ant-Man? I love Ant-Man, but if anything demonstrated Marvel's ownage it's that.

 

Also, Antman and the Wasp was NOT a very good movie.

 

Marvel's days as top dog won't last forever.

 

[nonniey]

1 hour ago, Mournblade said:

 

Also, Antman and the Wasp was NOT a very good movie.

 

Marvel's days as top dog won't last forever.

 

It wasn't bad though which cannot be said about Justice league.

[Kosher Ham]

1 hour ago, Mournblade said:

Marvel's days as top dog won't last forever.

 

Ehh... I think it will. 

 

Not enough DC top dogs to outweigh the Marvel mid level heroes. 

[Zguy28]

1 hour ago, Mournblade said:

 

Also, Antman and the Wasp was NOT a very good movie.

 

Marvel's days as top dog won't last forever.

 

I loved it. It's supporting cast makes up for anything lacking in the top billed actors. I was left wondering though, what did Michelle Pfeiffer eat and drink for 30 years in the Quantum realm? I mean you are smaller than a water molecule...

27 minutes ago, nonniey said:

It wasn't bad though which cannot be said about Justice league.

I liked both, but Marvel is better by far.

[justice98]

43 minutes ago, Kosher Ham said:

 

Ehh... I think it will. 

 

Not enough DC top dogs to outweigh the Marvel mid level heroes. 

 

I think what works for Marvel is A) Feige is just a master at this, but B ) they've built up enough equity to withstand putting out a dud.  People just say, "didnt love that one, but that's ok, get 'em next time".

 

And they havent yet put out any franchise killing movies.  And even then, they'd have to put out several in a row.  Ten years in and they put out Black Panther and Infinity War back to back.  They've earned a lot of leeway over these 10 years of the MCU.

[Larry]

To me, the thing that has nailed the Marvel movies, (and I think a lesser extent for things like the Netflix series), is how much character they manage to cram into their films.  

 

I think the first Avengers was a great example.  The Avengers had, what, seven stars?  (If you count Loki).  And they managed to have at least one really good character-revealing scene for each of them.  

 

There's so many really good lines, just thrown in.  Cap's "Hey, I got that one" in response to Fury's "flying monkeys".  Heck, they managed to make "Agent Coulson" ("His first name is 'Agent'.") into a character. 

 

I think my favorite scene from Avengers probably lasted a whole 3 seconds.  

 

 

 

[Mournblade]

4 hours ago, Kosher Ham said:

 

Ehh... I think it will. 

 

Not enough DC top dogs to outweigh the Marvel mid level heroes. 

 

Marvel's competition doesn't only come from DC through. It comes from the other major franchises as well -- Star Wars, Star Trek, Game of Thrones, James Bond, Lord of the Rings (uh, I think we can safely omit Harry Potter -- we're all adults here, right?).

 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

Harry Potter is fantastic but they aren’t making new ones that are a real competition to any of these movies. A few Fantastic Beast prequels that have nothing to do with the core HP story won’t impact anything 

[Going Commando]

I had a very different perspective on Killmonger.  To me he came off as incoherent and not believable.  I also thought his plan was harebrained and I thought Michael B Jordan went too "comic book" with his performance.  Visuals that work in comic books can come off as too overstated and silly on screen.  The villains were the one thing I didn't like about Black Panther.  Serkis was OK, if a bit annoying.  I thought the film really failed to develop Daniel Kaluuya's character and missed an opportunity to take advantage of the actor's talent.

 

I think the best villains have been the ensemble movie villains:

1 - Ultron

2 - Thanos

 

Distant third - Loki

 

Those movies have a much better opportunity to develop their villains because the main characters have already been well established by their appearances in other movies.  Ultron and Thanos were the main characters of their films.  That said, I thought MCU missed an opportunity with Baron Zemo in Civil War.  He was very forgettable.  Ross and Stark were the real villains of that film.

 

I think Obadiah Stain, Vulture, and Red Skull were the three best villains from the solo films by far.  They were legitimately good.  I thought Whiplash was alright but undeveloped.  Hela and Ronan the Accuser were competently portrayed but not particularly interesting.  Darren Cross was a bit incoherent and underdeveloped, like Killmonger.  The Mandarin was a joke and a major missed opportunity.  Ego was absurd.  Aldrich Killian, Robert Redford (can't even remember his name), Malekith, Kaecilius and Dormamu were nothing.  Vague sources of conflict with no personality or development whatsoever.  Ant Man and Wasp didn't even have a villain.  Winter Soldier was a pawn who makes a clear face turn.  Grandmaster was fun but not much of a villain either.  It's been so long since I've seen Hulk that I honestly can't remember if Abomination was the villain or if he was from the Ang Lee movie instead.

Edited August 7, 2018 by stevemcqueen1

[Momma There Goes That Man]

Killmonger had a presence about him. From that first scene in the art gallery, he owned the screen. I thought Ultron was about as generic as it gets. Spader was the only thing that saved him from being completely lousy. 

[Zguy28]

14 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

I had a very different perspective on Killmonger.  To me he came off as incoherent and not believable.  I also thought his plan was harebrained and I thought Michael B Jordan went too "comic book" with his performance.  Visuals that work in comic books can come off as too overstated and silly on screen.  The villains were the one thing I didn't like about Black Panther.  Serkis was OK, if a bit annoying.  I thought the film really failed to develop Daniel Kaluuya's character and missed an opportunity to take advantage of the actor's talent.

 

I think the best villains have been the ensemble movie villains:

1 - Ultron

2 - Thanos

 

Distant third - Loki

 

Those movies have a much better opportunity to develop their villains because the main characters have already been well established by their appearances in other movies.  Ultron and Thanos were the main characters of their films.  That said, I thought MCU missed an opportunity with Baron Zemo in Civil War.  He was very forgettable.  Ross and Stark were the real villains of that film.

 

I think Obadiah Stain, Vulture, and Red Skull were the three best villains from the solo films by far.  They were legitimately good.  I thought Whiplash was alright but undeveloped.  Hela and Ronan the Accuser were competently portrayed but not particularly interesting.  Darren Cross was a bit incoherent and underdeveloped, like Killmonger.  The Mandarin was a joke and a major missed opportunity.  Ego was absurd.  Aldrich Killian, Robert Redford (can't even remember his name), Malekith, Kaecilius and Dormamu were nothing.  Vague sources of conflict with no personality or development whatsoever.  Ant Man and Wasp didn't even have a villain.  Winter Soldier was a pawn who makes a clear face turn.  Grandmaster was fun but not much of a villain either.  It's been so long since I've seen Hulk that I honestly can't remember if Abomination was the villain or if he was from the Ang Lee movie instead.

Am I the only one who thought Justin Hammer, as inept as he was, was one of the better villains? Maybe he wasn't just a "real" villain?

 

 

[Larry]

I know it's not from Marvel movies, but as long as we're calling out good villans, I wanted to mention Kingpin and Cottonmouth.  

 

(Although I do confess that I had problems believing Kingpin's motivation/consistency.  I mean, I'm supposed to believe that he's a real estate developer who wants to make Hell's Kitchen a better place for it's downtrodden residents.  And to do it, he has, among other things, corrupted the NYPD to the point where he can order the SWAT team to kill a fellow police officer, and have the order carried out?)  

[justice98]

13 hours ago, Mournblade said:

 

Marvel's competition doesn't only come from DC through. It comes from the other major franchises as well -- Star Wars, Star Trek, Game of Thrones, James Bond, Lord of the Rings (uh, I think we can safely omit Harry Potter -- we're all adults here, right?).

 

 

I dont think any of those are really competition, even Star Wars.  Most of those are barely hanging on as it is.

26 minutes ago, Zguy28 said:

Am I the only one who thought Justin Hammer, as inept as he was, was one of the better villains? Maybe he wasn't just a "real" villain?

 

 

 

He wasnt a great villain in terms of providing menace and a threat, but I was still entertained by him as a character.  But Sam Rockwell is the man tho.  

[drowland]

56 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

I think the best villains have been the ensemble movie villains:

1 - Ultron

2 - Thanos

 

Distant third - Loki

 

Those movies have a much better opportunity to develop their villains because the main characters have already been well established by their appearances in other movies.  Ultron and Thanos were the main characters of their films.  That said, I thought MCU missed an opportunity with Baron Zemo in Civil War.  He was very forgettable.  Ross and Stark were the real villains of that film.

 

I think Obadiah Stain, Vulture, and Red Skull were the three best villains from the solo films by far.  They were legitimately good.  I thought Whiplash was alright but undeveloped.  Hela and Ronan the Accuser were competently portrayed but not particularly interesting.  Darren Cross was a bit incoherent and underdeveloped, like Killmonger.  The Mandarin was a joke and a major missed opportunity.  Ego was absurd.  Aldrich Killian, Robert Redford (can't even remember his name), Malekith, Kaecilius and Dormamu were nothing.  Vague sources of conflict with no personality or development whatsoever.  Ant Man and Wasp didn't even have a villain.  Winter Soldier was a pawn who makes a clear face turn.  Grandmaster was fun but not much of a villain either.  It's been so long since I've seen Hulk that I honestly can't remember if Abomination was the villain or if he was from the Ang Lee movie instead.

 

You see, I thought Ultron was severely underdeveloped.  It felt like they rushed him onto the screen after he had a brief conversation with Jarvis and killed him.  I think they would have been better served introducing the Ultron Project in IM3 to start building towards AoU.  

 

IM2 was to me the worst villains because of the wasted talent.  They made Justin Hammer a punchline and Whiplash wasn't really Whiplash.  Rourke was a cross between Whiplash and Crimson Dynamo.  Rourke said he filmed another 30 minutes of scenes and dialogue that was cut out of the movie which is why his character came out underdeveloped.  They used IM2 to build on Fury putting a team together going into Avengers more then putting out a good stand alone move. 

 

Abomination was in Incredible Hulk, not the Ang Lee movie.  

[drowland]

13 hours ago, Mournblade said:

 

Marvel's competition doesn't only come from DC through. It comes from the other major franchises as well -- Star Wars, Star Trek, Game of Thrones, James Bond, Lord of the Rings (uh, I think we can safely omit Harry Potter -- we're all adults here, right?).

 

 

Will be interesting to see what Cameron's Avatar movies do.  Avatar 2 comes out in 2020 and 3 comes out in 2021.  

[Going Commando]

On 8/7/2018 at 9:51 AM, drowland said:

You see, I thought Ultron was severely underdeveloped.  It felt like they rushed him onto the screen after he had a brief conversation with Jarvis and killed him.  I think they would have been better served introducing the Ultron Project in IM3 to start building towards AoU.  

 

They developed Ultron throughout the movie.  He's actually learning and growing the whole time.  And they reveal his character through his interactions with other characters.  I liked the brisk pace of the movie and wouldn't really change anything about the story.  His final dialogue exchange with Vision was extraordinarily good writing and acting.

 

Joss Whedon is a writer's writer and wrote the two best screenplays in the MCU IMO.  By far.  They're full of subtlety, intricacy, tension, wit, expert pacing and character development and yet they're totally accessible and digestible upon a first and second viewing.  He's a master and I thought Ultron was a perfect villain.  Scary, charismatic, and with a coherent plan that was suitably high stakes and achievable given his means.  It didn't rely on an egregious amount of leaps in logic so as to break the spell.

 

But I don't disagree that it would have made sense to set up the Ultron project in Iron Man 3.  That might be a case of a lack of coordination between the various MCU projects at that point.

 

On 8/7/2018 at 9:51 AM, drowland said:

IM2 was to me the worst villains because of the wasted talent.  They made Justin Hammer a punchline and Whiplash wasn't really Whiplash.  Rourke was a cross between Whiplash and Crimson Dynamo.  Rourke said he filmed another 30 minutes of scenes and dialogue that was cut out of the movie which is why his character came out underdeveloped.  They used IM2 to build on Fury putting a team together going into Avengers more then putting out a good stand alone move. 

 

Yeah I noticed that they tried to blend the two villains into one character too.  I don't have a problem with Justin Hammer's portrayal.  I think Rockwell actually gives the character a surprising amount of depth given how little screen time he gets compared to most villains, and that's a testament to his tremendous talent.  He works for me.  I also would consider him more of an antagonist than true villain.  I have much more of an issue with them making the Mandarin a punchline in Iron Man 3.  Mandarin is at least a Tier 2 villain, up there with Ultron and Dormamu and Galactus.

 

I kind of liked Mickey Rourke's Whiplash.  He doesn't really make sense and he doesn't have a backstory.  But Rourke manages to cram some development and complexity into him.  He was doing good work around the time that film was made.  And Crimson Dynamo just doesn't work any more in a post-Cold War universe.  They've already got some pretty significant incoherency going on in the way they've portrayed Black Widow, who they explicitly state was born in 1984 yet was essentially created in a weird height-of-the-Cold-War KGB program.  I don't think they could have done Crimson Dynamo well without getting into some political weeds.

 

On 8/7/2018 at 9:51 AM, drowland said:

Abomination was in Incredible Hulk, not the Ang Lee movie.  

 

This is the forgotten MCU movie.  Marvel Studios probably wants us to forget about it given the continuity breaks and the lack of subsequent Hulk projects.  Tim Roth is good though.  He did a solid job with Abomination.

Edited August 14, 2018 by stevemcqueen1