Brian Orakpo: Current most over hyped Redskin? Or as good as advertised?

[Bantu]

I will keep this pretty short:

Orakpo is the most talented player on defense. When he went out, everybody on the defense's productivity dropped.

He is not yet the elite pass rusher that he can be. And he needs to stay healthy.

The question for him is can he be fully recovered, and play with abandon, take the next step and become a beast.

Juries out. Only time will tell. But there is no question that he's the most athletic and talented player on the defense.

Most talented and athletic, uhhh, maybe. As a football player he couldn't touch London Fletcher with a ten foot pole. The truth is, it doesn't take 4-5 seasons to know if someone is elite or not. We all know how good he is and he is solid, maybe even really good at times. But an All-Pro( remember this is different than pro-bowl) he is not. The jury is not out in this one, we all know what kind of player he is.

[skinzwiz]

Orakpo is a great player. It's like people have amnesia. I do get all this overrated overhyped talk. He is a young good player that only can improve if the injury doesn't permanently affect him, which I doubt it will.

People look at stats and fail to realize the holding penalties he forces and the amount of attention he receives from blockers. To those people I have to ask: Are you really a Redskins fan? Are you really watching the games? You should be able to know that from watching the game he played in.

[Brixtion_skin]

I say over hyped, but only by the fan base.

[2cents]

He's an above avg player but certainly not elite. Unfortunately when it comes time for a new contract he will be looking for elite money.

So you've talked to him and know this for a fact....k. Just playing Devil's advocate here...but you are making a rather sweeping statement based on an assumption.

[rumplestilskin]

Its difficult for me to over or under rate a player who has spent large parts of the past two seasons injured. He was showing improvement as time went by and I was excited to see what he could do with a lead for a change which is when his position flourishes. Our current offense would help him alot IMHO. I am not sure what his value would be currently but I do think our need for a pass rusher is more valuable right now than the pick that would be offered for compensation. If he was coming of a 13 sack season his value might help us in a trade but as it stands now he is most valuable to this team and will help our depleted secondary by adding pressure, hurries and sacks. All that being said though Shanny does seem to be adding alot of front seven depth. This latest Tapp signing made me think a possible trade may be entertained. Not that Tapp is anywhere near Rak ability wise but it just smelt fishy to me even with RJ suspension considered. Reoccurring injuries is something Shanny has little patience for.

[walkman]

I still think the ceiling is high with Orakpo.I believe he will come out and prove those doubters wrong.With the secondary as horrible as it is,we need Rak to come back 100%.

[HighOnHendrix]

Not so much trading him now Martin as discussing what direction we go with him in his contract year and finding out people's views on Orakpo's true worth.

Hail.

As Martin said, his play this year will determine that. Best course of action IMO is to extend him if he plays well, let him play out his current contract and hit FA if he doesn't. Trading him is also complicated by Rob Jackson being suspended the first four games, since you'd probably have to wait until RJ comes back to feel comfortable about making that move. So you've got two weeks to work out a deal that brings good value? Good luck with that.

I see where you're coming from in wanting to get something back for him versus letting him walk but it's sort of like the calls for trading up/down in the draft we hear every year: it only works if you've got other teams interested in what you've got - willing trade partners. And the facts you're pointing out about his play are not bolstering that trade value. Combine a short trade window with diminished value due to injury/hype and the simple truth is it's likely not worth it to consider a trade. Put another way: how many teams are going to want/need to bring him in at Week 5 and be willing to give up a 2nd?

[KCClybun]

Its difficult for me to over or under rate a player who has spent large parts of the past two seasons injured.

He played in all 16 games in 2011. What are you talking about?

[SKINSFAN87]

I believe he is good as advertised as long as he can stay healthy and fine tune his mechanics. He has the drive and physical tools that is required to be great, so if he can work on his mechanics a little bit more, he can (imo) be the best out there.

[MartinC]

Not so much trading him now Martin as discussing what direction we go with him in his contract year and finding out people's views on Orakpo's true worth.

Hail.

I think all we can do is see where we stand at the end of the year - hopefully he stays healthy and plays like one of the better edge pass rushers in the league. If he does I'm sure we will be happy to extend him and pay him though it might be hard to agree his value.

[rumplestilskin]

He played in all 16 games in 2011. What are you talking about?

I never said he didn't play I said he spent large parts of the past two seasons injured. Dont forget about the high ankle sprain he was nursing all year in 2011.

[skinsdomination09]

Our pash rush without rack is abbysmal. He is a great pass rusher.

Keenan hasn't proved anything. at all.

My only thoughts.

---------- Post added March-30th-2013 at 11:37 AM ----------

Trade him and get what?

A marginal player and a 2/3rd round pick. What are the chances that pick/player can have both the potential production and actual production that rack does? The trade argument is stupid. Guy is 3 years into the league and when healthy has been as advertised.

[MartinC]

Our pash rush without rack is abbysmal. He is a great pass rusher.

Keenan hasn't proved anything. at all.

My only thoughts.

Keenan Robinson is a backup inside linebacker - do you mean Kerrigan?

[skinsdomination09]

Keenan Robinson is a backup inside linebacker - do you mean Kerrigan?

Nope. In the OP it mentioned Keenan's "potential" or whatever. Which I thought was ridiculous. Keenan may have been "good in college" but almost every draft pick was and being blunt he has shown nothing that has "wowed" me.

And trading rack now would be so stupid. He is high end talent that we would get little in return for and his value is at it's lowest. Not even an option.

*no disrespect to the OP though

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Personally speaking, I'd be interested to see what Robinson could do in the position at this level. I appreciate we're looking long term at London retiring and having him focus solely on the inside, but he has the tools to play both roles as he did in Texas.

I was just saying we are developing good options through the LB core. Not comparing the as yet relatively unproven KR at this level to Orakpo.

And absolutely no disrespect was taken bud.

Hail.

[2cents]

Unfortunately, the truth lies in the middle. Brian is a very good player, has his flaws and may or may not get a whole lot better. He is a guy you could keep and pay decently and regret it, and is also a guy you could trade and he could make you regret it. I don't know what I would do if I was the front office. The one thing I like about him the most is that it does seem like the team plays better with him in. Watch the opener last year and you can see the pass rush it totally different, sacks or no.

[MartinC]

Nope. In the OP it mentioned Keenan's "potential" or whatever. Which I thought was ridiculous. Keenan may have been "good in college" but almost every draft pick was and being blunt he has shown nothing that has "wowed" me.

And trading rack now would be so stupid. He is high end talent that we would get little in return for and his value is at it's lowest. Not even an option.

*no disrespect to the OP though

Sorry missed that in the OP. Yeah, while Robinson did play OLB in College he was not a very good pass rusher and is looked on as someone we want to develop as an inside 'backer here so not really part of this conversation about Orakpo IMO.

[London Kev]

I think that it's too early to know what his trade value is, so making a decision at this time would be wrong, but I hope he stays.

I haven't got the stats to back it up, but when Rak got injured there was a noticable drop in pass rush. He may not be one of the best pass rushers in the league, but he's one of the best on this team and that makes him valuable to us.

I'm looking forward to seeing Kerrakpo play together again, and maybe find a way to get Jackson on the field at the same time.

[emor09]

Absence makes the heart grow fonder. I love Orakpo, but he can't cover, he can't stop the run and he can't contain his end against a mobile QB. He's a one trick pony.

[DogofWar1]

This thread poses two questions:

1. Is Orakpo overrated as a player?

2. Should we trade him or try to get value for him?

To the first, I don't think his potential is overrated. I don't think he's reached that potential, on the field, either, but it's definitely there. He racked up 11 sacks his rookie year with a single move and poor hand usage. The problem is, he didn't really develop his hand usage, and his cover ability was suspect.

However, jumping to the five quarters he played last year, I think he had at least begun to fulfill his potential. We didn't get to see his pass rush technique much sadly, but in the offseason it was discussed how he was training to beat double teams. I don't think there was any reason to doubt that he'd notch at least 10 sacks, which while not elite, is very good. And I think his sack ceiling was much higher than that. In addition, he seemed more well rounded than before as a player. He defended three passes in the Saints game, I think two at the line and a third via a dropped INT in the open field. I doubt he was going to be defending passes that often across the season, but I could see him notching 10-12 defended passes too.

A 10 sack, 10 passes defended OLB is pretty good value, but I think it's quite possible he could have improved that first number by a few sacks as well.

It's worth remembering that Orakpo, like many of our younger players, has not had the benefit of full offseasons much. Between 09-10 we changed defensive systems, and between 10-11 we had the lockout. The 2012 offseason was the first full offseason where we didn't have a system change or lockout, and it's quite possible he honed his craft significantly, and we just didn't get a chance to see it.

So I think Redskins fans, myself included, overrate him somewhat in terms of what we think his talent is compared to his on field production, BUT I don't think we overrate him in terms of what we think his talent is compared to his true potential. Whether he fulfills that potential is another matter though, and one that we need to watch carefully this year. After this year we should be able to gauge his long term worth to the team and pay him accordingly, or perhaps he'll walk.

As for whether we should trade him, probably not. If he comes back healthy, and is a 10 sack guy, his cap cost is well worth it, especially considering his value extends beyond his own raw numbers, and helps to elevate the rest of the team, after all, he's probably the only non-DL guy who can consistently draw double teams.

If we were to be offered a very nice package of picks, I could see him being worth moving, BUT, obviously a player coming off an injury that side-lined him for 14.75 games is not going to get that much interest. Also there's the fact he's only got 1 year left on the contract, so a team would basically be getting him on loan for a year. We probably would get a 3rd or 4th for him, not a 1st or even a 2nd, and there should be no way we move him for that.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Small sample size in half hearted games it's true DoW; but for all his talk of refinemt/ working out with Ware et all, he looked just as one dimensional last pre-season.

Hail.

[TeddyKGB]

According to this under "The Most Productive" he definitely is not overrated. I look at it as if he has another good year and he's agreeable with Chris Clemons/Robert Mathis/Trent Cole type money then we should try to make it work. If hes looking for top 5 DE/OLB money though he can walk.

[clarkskin]

I think the op makes good points. I certainly am not "hating" on Rak and like him and his game. BUT, I dont think he lives up to his draft status or reputation. Trouble is, I don't think "cashing in" is really an option at this point given his injury uncertainty. What would he really command as far as value goes at this point? People on ES scoff at the notion of him being injury prone, but I think re-injury warrants some concern in that department.

[KCClybun]

I think Rak is just the next guy in line that people want gone for some reason. I don't get it. I really don't. I keep seeing people say he's overhyped, but I think when you filter out the more silly voices, you'd find that a lot of people say "he's a really good football player, even a great football player, he's just not elite."

He's not DeMarcus Ware. Okay. So? Because if we're being honest, neither is Kerrigan.

Kerrigan might be the better all around linebacker, but he's got one move too --- bullrush. Kerrigan uses his hands a little bit better, and maybe a little bit better motor, but if we're going to ding Rak for having "one move", then it's only fair you mention that to this point, Kerrigan's got one move too.

And so does Rob Jackson. And R-Jax may create more "splash" plays, but he doesn't generate any pressure, whatsoever. INTs are great, potentially game changing, but he doesn't generate any pressure. And his pass rush repetoire? Bullrush. That's IT.

Rak's pass coverage skills have actually improved; another case of people letting a few plays here and there influence their overall opinion of a player. But what we saw Haslett do late in 2011 and in those first two games was say "screw having Rak drop in coverage; rush him." That's why he'd move Rak around, and have Kerrigan drop back into coverage from Rak's spot while rushing Rak on the right tackle or up the middle.

And how often does DeMarcus Ware drop into coverage? How often do Aldon Smith or James Harrison or Terrell Suggs or Clay Matthews drop into coverage? I'd almost prefer Haslett to never drop Rak. You look at the Steelers, and Harrison was almost always the rusher (and wasn't particularly great in pass coverage himself) and Woodley was the better all around guy. That's the set-up we have with Rak and Kerrigan. They work off each other and make each other better. With a healthy Adam, who's a better rusher than run defender, that's how you generate pressure.

As for "how much money he'll ask for", how about we just let the season play out before we start making wild assumptions about what Rak will and won't ask for? This one of the more frustrating aspects of this whole Orakpo debate; the implication that if Brian Orakpo plays really well, he'll command a big contract. Well...yeah, but how exactly does it hurt us for Rak to have a great season? Wouldn't that sort of be a net positive? For Rak to have a great season, us to offer him a fair deal for his services, and then retain one of our first round draft picks?

Trading him basically implies you trust Rob Jackson to do his job. Rob has to generate pressure and he doesn't. Picks from an OLB are great. Pressure is better. Let the secondary pick off passes. And he's suspended the first four games. Plus it means you have to spend a draft pick on an outside linebacker. And that draft pick would likely have to be a 2nd or 3rd round pick, because we'd have to count on him being able to at least play spot duty, since we'd be without Rak OR Rob Jackson, which would leave our OLB core with a giant gaping wound, wherein we'd basically have no viable guys at that position for the first four games.

Getting rid of Rak causes more problems than it potentially solves. In fact getting rid of him solves any problems whatsoever.

[RWJ]

GHH, here's my take. My prediction: He will get hurt again this year (2013) and will miss 1/2 the season or close to it. This will cause his value to go down and he will not be the healthy pass rusher we have had in the past and will not be a Redskin after this season. We will see Rob Jackson play well again in 2013 replacing Orakpo at his position signing a long term deal at 1/2 the cost. Yah, yah I know Jackson will miss 4 games due to not reporting taking a prescription drug which was stupid on his part but stuff happens.

---------- Post added March-30th-2013 at 04:16 PM ----------

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What happens, NLC if Orakpo is reinjured with the same one he sustained last year, this year? Do we sign him to another contract or is it time to move on? Just curious what your take is on this and what direction we go in IF this occurs.