NBC: Fat-shaming may curb obesity, bioethicist says

Fat-shaming may curb obesity, bioethicist says

Unhappy with the slow pace of public health efforts to curb America’s stubborn obesity epidemic, a prominent bioethicist is proposing a new push for what he says is an “edgier strategy” to promote weight loss: ginning up social stigma.

Daniel Callahan, a senior research scholar and president emeritus of The Hastings Center, put out a new paper this week calling for a renewed emphasis on social pressure against heavy people -- what some may call fat-shaming -- including public posters that would pose questions like this:

“If you are overweight or obese, are you pleased with the way that you look?”

Obligatory image of fat person from behind (so as to protect their identity - don't want to fat-shame them, or do you?)

Callahan outlined a strategy that applauds efforts to boost education, promote public health awareness of obesity and curb marketing of unhealthy foods to children.

But, he added, those plans could do with a dose of shame if there’s any hope of repairing a nation where more than a third of adults and 17 percent of kids are obese.

“Safe and slow incrementalism that strives never to stigmatize obesity has not and cannot do the necessary work,” wrote Callahan in a Hastings Center Report from the nonprofit bioethics think tank.

Weight-acceptance advocates and doctors who treat obesity reacted swiftly to the plan proposed by Callahan, a trim 82-year-old.

“For him to argue that we need more stigma, I don’t know what world he’s living in,” said Deb Burgard, a California psychologist specializing in eating disorders and a member of the advisory board for the National Association to Advance Fat Acceptance.

“He must not have any contact with actual free-range fat people,” she added.

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Lets start poking fat people with a stick as they walk by

(I kid, I kid....sort of)

I've been doing this to fat people for years

:whoknows:

Aside from being a terrible idea that would probably increase the suicide rate in this country, would someone please tell me what is an "actual free-range fat person?"

Obese people know they're fat, many of them are either:

A. Perfectly happy being that way for whatever reason, and are unwilling to change.

B. Unhappy with how they look, but unwilling to stop eating insane amounts of unhealthy food.

C. Unhappy with how they look, and in denial about their ability to lose weight (ie they use bad genetics, medications, childhood issues, etc. as excuses)

To explain C- yes, there are people who are more genetically prone to being fat, there are certainly health issues, surgeries, medications, and any number of problems from a person's past which can all serve to increase the likelihood that a person will be fat. It does not mean that a person has to be fat and obese, and is likely an excuse.

For me, there is no point bothering the ones who are happy being enormous. I can't fathom why they would actually enjoy being like that, but a campaign to make them feel bad would work about as well as a campaign to make thin/in shape people feel bad for being thin and in shape.

The ones who are unhappy but unwilling or apparently mentally incapable of overcoming or changing whatever is making them that way are not likely to find motivation from shaming.

I'd say there is a shaming culture around cigarettes, and while smoking rates have decreased around the country there are still plenty of people who take a "**** you, it's my body and I'll kill myself however I feel like killing myself" attitude. They smoke even though they know it's bad for them and shaming smokers serves to entrench them in their positions.

First and foremost, like smoking, drugs and drinking, you will not get someone to change their habits until "They" make up their mind that they will do it. The person has got to want to change their life and if their mind isn't 100% intent on doing it, then it will never happen. And like No_Pressure said above, poke the lion with a stick and they get more aggressive about it. I have first hand knowledge of it with a drinker and smokers in the family.

I see no problem with it. Americans are fat and it is disgusting. We are also way too sensitive. If someones feeling are hurt by fat shaming and they lose weight, I see a winning situation. They are now healthier, more confident and better looking.

I guarentee they won't feel bad about how they were told they were too fat before after they get in shape.

This is shameful. The man who wrote the paper sounds like an attention whore.

I see no problem with it. Americans are fat and it is disgusting. We are also way too sensitive. If someones feeling are hurt by fat shaming and they lose weight, I see a winning situation. They are now healthier, more confident and better looking.

I guarentee they won't feel bad about how they were told they were too fat before after they get in shape.

How are you going to feel when the first person kills themselves from being fat shamed?

Shame and humiliation are not the way to go. But there's nothing wrong with plain speaking.

There's also a lot of delusion about what 'normal' is. If shaming is to take place, it should be directed at those advocates who are arguing that being significantly overweight or obese is nothing to be concerned about.

Aside from being a terrible idea that would probably increase the suicide rate in this country, would someone please tell me what is an "actual free-range fat person?"

Spoken like a true fatty.

I see no problem with it. Americans are fat and it is disgusting. We are also way too sensitive. If someones feeling are hurt by fat shaming and they lose weight, I see a winning situation. They are now healthier, more confident and better looking.

I guarentee they won't feel bad about how they were told they were too fat before after they get in shape.

To generalize in the same spirit, Americans are also stupid and ignorantly opinionated (like your post here). I don't mind shaming them (the "stupid and loud about it") if they take it that way (though my intent isn't to shame) because they are much more of a real blight upon others, whereas "fat people" mostly suffer within themselves as far as any real degree of impact.

I think the ugly stupid like your post here, and some preceding you (that I knew these "fat" threads always fill up with from typical internet morons of which we have a generous helping) are exhibiting an even more willful and controllable "poor behavior" than how I'd regard most people's obesity and thus are more valid candidates for being noted for it.

The "problem" (outside of adding to the nation's health costs--but then all kinds of behaviors, like smoking and excessive alcohol consumption and bad diets among "not-fat" people) are all guilty) is also largely cultural attitudes to being with by the non-fatty's. You go to various island cultures or others (Samoa and Hawaii a good example) and there is little stigma on weight among the indigenous population. And the "fat people" are happy. The same has been true in various cultures across the globe (including Europe) at times in history.

Usually, I'd associate thinking like in this post with the kind of person who should have the crap kicked out of them daily until they recant, but to the best of my knowledge that's a real aberration for the poster.. This thread already is off to the start I knew it would be, and will continue. I do think shaming is a sometimes useful behavioral shaping tool and exists for both "good" and "bad" reasons in terms of how it's sued. It's often used to make the "shamer" feel superior (we are so dominated--worse in some cultures than others-- by desire for self-identity and ego reinforcement). It is often (as in the case here) very poorly and hypocritically deployed, however, and often does much more damage than not. I have a much harsher view of these things, though, when being reactive. I entertain the dark thinking that only one out of ten people should be drawing breath, but their weight has nothing to do with it.

There is really little difference (other than it's culturally more passable") between the "slam fatty" (from serious to "just being funny") dialogue we usually see in such "conversations" and that on any other group targeted for stupid reasons (like "homos" which has been decreasing).

And no, I'm not fat.

Spoken like a true fatty.

You think that by saying that, that makes me someone who's fat?

You think that by saying that, that makes me someone who's fat?

Just a little joke... fatty.

I see no problem with it. Americans are fat and it is disgusting. We are also way too sensitive. If someones feeling are hurt by fat shaming and they lose weight, I see a winning situation. They are now healthier, more confident and better looking.

I guarentee they won't feel bad about how they were told they were too fat before after they get in shape.

I'm certainly not afraid of hurting someone's feelings, but how many people do you know who get shamed into quitting drugs, giving up drinking and smoking, or losing weight? You may ask how I can equate those things, but I've watched people who struggle immensely with food and eating habits.

Think about it like this:

For some people it's a very simple matter of self control- If I'm walking down the street and I see a very attractive woman, my body instantly tells me chemically and perhaps physically "hey that woman is hot, you should get in her pants".

Now for me, I'm happily married and I find it incredibly easy to control impulses such as these. My body may think it would be fun and great and fulfilling to pursue an extramarital relationship with the sexy woman I see, but my brain easily says "hey, shut the **** up, body. You're married, your wife is hot, and cheating is illogical quite simply out of the question entirely". I know that these positives of impulsive behavior greatly outweigh the negatives, and for me it is an easy decision and easy exercise in willpower.

For others, it isn't quite as easy. Some people just aren't meant to be married, and don't possess the willpower to ward off impulsive behavior. They'll have some hot chick hit on them at a bar when they're out with their friends and they'll disregard their wives/girlfriends and pursue behavior choices which destroy what they've been trying to accomplish (a stable relationship).

Now let's apply this example to food. Let's say the goal for all people is to be skinny and in shape, and let's say that you are already thin, in shape, and have healthy eating habits, and your friend is obese. You're walking through your house and you notice that there is your favorite piping hot cheese pizza sitting on the counter just waiting for you to eat it. It may be a simple exercise for you to avoid eating the pizza because you know it is detrimental to your more important health goals, or you may be able to eat a slice or two without overeating. Self control in that area perhaps comes more easily to you, and you can't understand how it wouldn't to others.

Your obese friend walks past the pizza, and in spite of being on a diet has his body freaking out and telling him to eat the pizza. His willpower breaks and he eats the whole thing because it's ****ing delicious. Short term fun negates more difficult to attain long term goals.

It isn't necessarily an easy thing for overweight and obese people to simply stop eating what they're eating. Shame is already there for most of them, and adding more of it isn't going to break addictions and habits which have likely been building for decades. In most cases shaming a cheater for cheating doesn't stop them from being a cheater. Shaming a smoker for smoking makes them more obtuse, and will merely build their resentment not for themselves, but for the people who can't leave them alone.

I think shaming fat people will get us nowhere, since the reason people are becoming obese at greater rates isn't a lack of shame attached to being fat, it's our overabundance of readily available, delicious, and extremely unhealthy food choices. McDonalds, Wendy's, Burger King, any number of chain restaurants, local pizza places, etc. are all delicious and bad for you. Go to a grocery store and take note of what they've put on sale and what they're putting out coupons for- the discounts are all for unhealthy frozen foods, sodas, snacks, etc. I've never seen a coupon for produce or a shopper's card discount on fruits/veggies. The incentives are in place all over to have people buy fattening things. They taste good, they're inexpensive to produce. Our food corporations make lots of money, our populace becomes morbidly obese. Shame has nothing to do with it. Willpower does, and in my experience people are more motivated by being built up in a positive manner than broken down. One way causes them to be positive, the other despondent.

Just a little joke... fatty.

I'm sensitive about my weight, thank you. No, not really.

What I really dislike though is really skinny people that eat like crap and never put on weight. It's just not fair.

WTF is a BIOETHICIST?

~Bang

I'm certainly not afraid of hurting someone's feelings, but how many people do you know who get shamed into quitting drugs, giving up drinking and smoking, or losing weight? You may ask how I can equate those things, but I've watched people who struggle immensely with food and eating habits.

Just a little joke... fatty.

You sound fat. You're not fooling anyone.

(and stop breaking rule 11, TSF <above>, you can get a week off for that :pfft:)

---------- Post added January-24th-2013 at 09:54 AM ----------

WTF is a BIOETHICIST?

~Bang

In this case, an idiot who will find his best audience on internet forums.

You sound fat. You're not fooling anyone.

(and stop breaking rule 11, TSF <above>, you can get a week off for that :pfft:)

Whoops. Missed that.

Its tough to pull of satire online when one of the major rules of good satire is never let them know you're telling a joke. Of course, that's just sort of mean online.

WTF is a BIOETHICIST?

A type of philosopher who wants to make a career in a science-related field, but isn't smart enough to actually do science.

WTF is a BIOETHICIST?

~Bang

Nah, Bioethics is a real thing. In fact, most hospitals have them to help determine tough end of life situations, along with the family that is. Not unilaterally. Please god don't think I'm talking death panels anyone. Point is, there are real docs who are bioethicists.

Aside from being a terrible idea that would probably increase the suicide rate in this country, ...?"

Isn't that just another way to reduce obesity?

Isn't that just another way to reduce obesity?

Plus it saves on the horrendous end-of-life healthcare costs for society that we all have to bear.

It's practically a civic duty.