cnsnews (via bloomberg): Treasury Secretary Geithner: Lift Debt Limit to Infinity

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/treasury-secretary-geithner-lift-debt-limit-infinity

CNSNews.com) - Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner said Friday that Congress should stop placing legal limits on the amount of money the government can borrow and effectively lift the debt limit to infinity.

On Bloomberg TV, “Political Capital” host Al Hunt asked Geithner if he believes “we ought to just eliminate the debt ceiling.”

“Oh, absolutely,” Geithner said.

more at link

Fire up the helicopters and stimulate me baby

Make it rain!!!

I'm kind of torn on this doomsday device debt ceiling thing. On one hand it is a bit scary for it to exist. It can be misused, and going through this discussion every few years would be counterproductive.

On the other hand, it was used and now we are seriously talking about parties coming to the table and making difficult political choices. A rare achievement.

Eek! That's all I have to say. Let's be honest... Congress needs a yoke and any brake available. I think if we removed the debt ceiling, even as much as it's become a partisan tool and bargaining chip, we would go crazy and head towards economic oblivion.

Oblivion is such a cool word though

Well, yeah, I could see the argument that, logically, Congress already imposes a debt limit, every time they pass our spending and tax laws.

Don't want the debt going up? Pass a balanced budget.

Pass a budget that's underfunded by a Trillion dollars? Then you authorized the debt to go up.

----------

But then, there's the political aspect.

Yeah, I can see how the political unpleasantness of having to explicitly authorize more debt might, in theory, limit them a little. (Although I also think that history says that it doesn't.)

Interesting that a tax cheat wants to have the ceiling raised to what ever we want.

Turbo tax is your friend or at least a get out of jail free card for some. And what is this debt anyways? Just a promise to pay you back? 16 Trillion and counting? Yea right. Good luck with that.

The ceiling, prior to Obama, had basically been raised without any fanfare, literally no one paid any attention to it, and raising it was very routine.

If Congress actually decides to make the debt ceiling more than just a easily moved goalpost, then fine, but that requires them to actually make major changes on the deficit.

Good luck with that.

The best thing to do would be to actually come up with a plan to balance the budget within X years, calculate what the debt should be when we finally hit even, and set the ceiling at that point, plus another half trillion or so to take into account random expenses and the like. Of course, I have a better chance of winning the lottery than that happening anytime soon.

It's currently Infinity, we want a debt ceiling imposed.

He's got the argument backwards

When haven't we raised it? It's just getting to be larger chunks each time.

AND we aren't passing a budget (by law) so whats the worst that could happen? we hit 23trillion in this administrations

Just announce that we are no longer operating at a deficit and throw a party for the nation!

I used to think that we had a chance of paying down our debt but if you look at the numbers and what it would take, literally from every last person, it's just never ever going to happen. We're more screwed than Greece in some respects. No party has a shred of political will to see it thru because they would then have to own the associated pain. I don't know what the path ahead is but it has to get ugly at some poi t even more so than it already has. I guess I'm the wet blanket but damn we're just hosed on this topic, why not raise the limit, it's essentially meaningless already.

I used to think that we had a chance of paying down our debt...

That's actually impossible and always has been; at least since the government decided to go with debt based currency. Interest is owed on top of every federal reserve note created, making it impossible to ever repay everything back down to zero.

One hyphenated word: hyper-inflation

I say go for it.

Not really.

No freaking way do I trust politicians with any aspect of unlimited power, or people in general.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/treasury-secretary-geithner-lift-debt-limit-infinity

CNSNews.com) - Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner said Friday that Congress should stop placing legal limits on the amount of money the government can borrow and effectively lift the debt limit to infinity.

On Bloomberg TV, “Political Capital” host Al Hunt asked Geithner if he believes “we ought to just eliminate the debt ceiling.”

“Oh, absolutely,” Geithner said.

more at link

I agree with him.

I know how libertarians have mastered the constitution too, so I assume they agree with him on this.

There have been positions proposed before saying the debt limit is merely one bill going against multitudes of spending bills. Both sets of bills have been passed by Congress. Thus, that which is past last undoes the previous as it becomes the current will of the legislative process. As I understand the argument, what one Congress passes the next may undo.

Under that logic, isn't a debt limit only valid until a budget is passed exceeding it?

There have been positions proposed before saying the debt limit is merely one bill going against multitudes of spending bills. Both sets of bills have been passed by Congress. Thus, that which is past last undoes the previous as it becomes the current will of the legislative process. As I understand the argument, what one Congress passes the next may undo.

Under that logic, isn't a debt limit only valid until a budget is passed exceeding it?

During the last Debt Ceiling Hostage Crisis, I expressed that legal opinion. That, when two laws passed by Congress conflict, the most recent law amends the previous one, even if it doesn't explicitly say so.

I have absolutely no clue how valid that reasoning is.

During the last Debt Ceiling Hostage Crisis, I expressed that legal opinion. That, when two laws passed by Congress conflict, the most recent law amends the previous one, even if it doesn't explicitly say so.

I have absolutely no clue how valid that reasoning is.

Actually, the debt limit law is probably not valid (i.e. constitutional) no matter what:

The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment14/

Nice and easy.

Actually, the debt limit law is probably not valid (i.e. constitutional) no matter what:

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment14/

Nice and easy.

The debt ceiling law says that when the debt reaches a certain number, the US has to stop borrowing.

The 14th says that money that they've already borrowed, has to be paid back.

I don't see any conflict at all, there.

The debt ceiling law says that when the debt reaches a certain number, the US has to stop borrowing.

The 14th says that money that they've already borrowed, has to be paid back.

I don't see any conflict at all, there.

The debt ceiling says that we will default on our debt if it goes over a certain amount. That is, we will not pay back our debt over a certain amount.

Huge conflict with the 14th amendment saying no one should question it.