Israel-Palestine kerfuffle

Wanted to post this new item, and I suspect that there's going to be followups. (Of a lethal nature.)

Yahoo: Israel hammers Hamas in Gaza offensive

GAZA (Reuters) - Israel launched a major offensive against Palestinian militants in Gaza on Wednesday, killing the military commander of Hamas in an air strike and threatening an invasion of the enclave that the Islamist group vowed would "open the gates of hell".

The onslaught shattered hopes that a truce mediated on Tuesday by Egypt could pull the two sides back from the brink of war after five days of escalating Palestinian rocket attacks and Israeli strikes at militant targets.

Operation "Pillar of Defence" began with a surgical strike on a car carrying the commander of the military wing of Hamas, the Iranian-armed Islamist movement which controls Gaza and dominates a score of smaller armed groups.

Within minutes of the death of Ahmed Al-Jaabari, big explosions shook Gaza as the Israeli air force struck at selected targets just before sundown, blasting plumes of smoke and debris high above the crowded city.

Panicking civilians ran for cover and the death toll mounted quickly. Ten people including three children were killed, the health ministry said, and about 40 were wounded. Also among the dead were an 11-month-old baby and a woman pregnant with twins.

Lots more at the link, going into all kinds of issues, like the new government in Egypt.

Gee, the hits just keep on coming, don't they? Riots in Greece and Spain. Fiscal cliff. Sex Scandal. Just what we need is some shooting in the Middle East.

I was tempted to start a thread about this all day, but I wasn't sure I wanted to see the responses.

I'm somewhat depressed but not surprised by our support for this mess too.

1000 years ago- same story just different type of weapons. 1000 years from now, some story just different type of weapons. There will never be peace there.

Gee, the hits just keep on coming, don't they? Riots in Greece and Spain. Fiscal cliff. Sex Scandal. Just what we need is some shooting in the Middle East.

And to top it off, my in-laws are coming for thanksgiving.

I was tempted to start a thread about this all day, but I wasn't sure I wanted to see the responses

I was rather surprised you hadn't.

And yeah, I get the whole "depressed but not surprised" thing, too. (Actually, I get that a lot).

And to top it off, my in-laws are coming for thanksgiving.

And Prom's tomorrow and I have a pimple on my nose!

But seriously, this is horrible. I'm a supporter of Israel, but this offensive seems completely out of line. I have a feeling Netanyahu has opened up a can of worms here. He's been rather hawkish in rhetoric and now it looks like he's in for a nasty fight (though it does look like this was in retaliation for previous strikes).

We got no money, no jobs, are pets HEADS ARE FALLING OFF! And now this!

I was tempted to start a thread about this all day, but I wasn't sure I wanted to see the responses.

Bet yours wouldn't have had kerfuffle in the title.

*

As for what's going on over there right now.......sigh.

Here is a video of the air strike:

Here is a video of the air strike:

Well damn...pin perfect strike.

Unfortunately, I don't see this situation ever getting any better. Like someone else said, same **** different day.

One of those things that just kind of leaped off the page, when I read it, was a comment by some Israeli official. Seems that this latest thing started kind of like this.

1. Some artillery rounds from Syria landed in Israel.
   
2. Israel retaliates by firing on Syria.
   
3. Hamas begins firing artillery at Israel.
   
4. Israel retaliates by firing at Gaza.

Now, I read a quote from some Israeli official, talking about item 1, saying something along the lines of "we don't think they were fired at Israel intentionally, but we retaliated anyway".

Just one of those things that I file under "because this is the Middle East".

Israel is a precious flower.

One of those things that just kind of leaped off the page, when I read it, was a comment by some Israeli official. Seems that this latest thing started kind of like this.

1. Some artillery rounds from Syria landed in Israel.
   
2. Israel retaliates by firing on Syria.
   
3. Hamas begins firing artillery at Israel.
   
4. Israel retaliates by firing at Gaza.

Now, I read a quote from some Israeli official, talking about item 1, saying something along the lines of "we don't think they were fired at Israel intentionally, but we retaliated anyway".

Just one of those things that I file under "because this is the Middle East".

a possibly errant shell was countered with a warning shot and followed by a Syrian promise it would be taken care of....it happened again....Israeli tank fire took care of it since they couldn't/wouldn't

It's been a year already?

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israeli-peace-activist-hamas-leader-jabari-killed-amid-talks-on-long-term-truce.premium-1.478085

Israeli peace activist: Hamas leader Jabari killed amid talks on long-term truce

Hours before Hamas strongman Ahmed Jabari was assassinated, he received the draft of a permanent truce agreement with Israel, which included mechanisms for maintaining the cease-fire in the case of a flare-up between Israel and the factions in the Gaza Strip. This, according to Israeli peace activist Gershon Baskin, who helped mediate between Israel and Hamas in the deal to release Gilad Shalit and has since then maintained a relationship with Hamas leaders.

Baskin told Haaretz on Thursday that senior officials in Israel knew about his contacts with Hamas and Egyptian intelligence aimed at formulating the permanent truce, but nevertheless approved the assassination.

“I think that they have made a strategic mistake," Baskin said, an error "which will cost the lives of quite a number of innocent people on both sides."

"This blood could have been spared. Those who made the decision must be judged by the voters, but to my regret they will get more votes because of this,” he added.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2012/11/15/the-story-behind-the-photo-journalists-11-month-old-son-killed-in-gaza-strikes/

The story behind the photo: Journalist’s 11-month-old son killed in Gaza strikes

The front page photo on Thursday’s Washington Post tells, in a single frame, a very personal story from Wednesday’s Israeli airstrikes on the Gaza Strip. Jihad Misharawi, a BBC Arabic journalist who lives in Gaza, carries the body of his 11-month old son, Omar, through al-Shifa hospital in Gaza City.

An Israeli round hit Misharawi’s four-room home in Gaza Wednesday, killing his son, according to BBC Middle East bureau chief Paul Danahar, who arrived in Gaza earlier Thursday. Misharawi’s sister-in-law was also killed, and his brother wounded. Misharawi told Danahar that, when the round landed, there was no fighting in his residential neighborhood.

“We’re all one team in Gaza,” Danahar told me, saying that Misharawi is a BBC video and photo editor. After spending a “few hours” with his grieving colleague, he wrote on Twitter, ”Questioned asked here is: if Israel can kill a man riding on a moving motorbike (as they did last month) how did Jihad’s son get killed.”

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/15/us-palestinians-israel-hamas-idUSBRE8AD0WP20121115

War looms over Gaza as death toll rises

A Hamas rocket killed three Israelis north of the Gaza Strip on Thursday, drawing the first blood from Israel as the Palestinian death toll rose to 15 in a military showdown lurching closer to all-out war and an invasion of the enclave.

On the second day of an assault Israel said might last many days and culminate in a ground attack, its warplanes bombed targets in and around Gaza city, where tall buildings trembled.

Plumes of smoke and dust furled into a sky laced with the vapor trails of outgoing rockets.

The sudden conflict, launched by Israel with the killing of Hamas's military chief, pours oil on the fire of a Middle East already ablaze with two years of revolution and an out-of-control civil war in Syria. Palestinian allies, led by Egyptian President Mohamed Mursi, denounced the Israeli offensive.

http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/1/64/58197/Egypt/Politics-/Egyptian-authorities-open-Rafah-crossing-for-Pales.aspx

Egyptian authorities open Rafah crossing for Palestinian injured

https://twitter.com/pdanahar

BBC in Gaza understands that egypt is actively trying to mediate between Israel & Hamas over fighting

9:11 AM

Reports that Hisham Qandil, the Egyptian PM visiting Gaza tomorrow

10:54 AM

https://twitter.com/AJELive

Islamic Jihad claims responsibility for rocket hitting Tel Aviv http://aje.me/XJ4StG

11:54 AM

https://twitter.com/javierespinosa2

A rocket fired from Gaza struck Israel's largest city, Tel Aviv, no casualties but not even Hezbollah reached so far in 2006

11:56 AM

https://twitter.com/BreakingNews

Rocket did not strike Tel Aviv, Israeli military spokesperson says; security source says it landed in sea - @Reuters

12:12 PM

https://twitter.com/pdanahar

Huge explosion near our bureau in Gaza few moments ago not sure what got hit

12:06 PM

And missile just took off not far from our bureau in Gaza going in other direction

12:08 PM

http://blogs.aljazeera.com/topic/gaza/us-calling-egypt-sway-palestinians-end-hostilities-official-says

US calling on Egypt to sway Palestinians to end hostilities, official says

The United States is calling on Egypt to use its sway with the Palestinians to try to end the violence from Gaza, a top US official said Thursday, adding Hamas must stop its rocket attacks on Israel.

"We ask Egypt to use its influence in the region to help de-escalate the situation," deputy State Department spokesman Mark Toner said, adding that Secretary of State Hillary Clinton had spoken with her Egyptian counterpart.

https://twitter.com/HughNaylor

Huge explosion just beyond northern edges of Gaza City. Hearing jets roaring. Think the raids are kicking off again

1:40 PM

yep, they started. thud after ominous thud

1:43 PM

massive explosion right outside hotel room. just massive

1:43 PM

building shaking

1:44 PM

https://twitter.com/sheikhNB

Gigantic explosions and fireballs just now in Gaza. Planes sweeping low over Gaza City.

1:45 PM

https://twitter.com/pdanahar

HUGE explosion, biggest yet near our office and another. I can hear kids crying in flats next door from fear

1:54 PM

BBC in Gaza understands that egypt is actively trying to mediate between Israel & Hamas over fighting

9:11 AM

Optimistic about this, here. I would suspect that Egypt might well have some political capital, here, for several reasons.

They're a new government, so Israel might be kind of nervous about what they might do.

And I'm not sure, but can Israel maintain their blockade of Gaza without Egypt's consent? Surely if nothing else, doing so must be tough.

And I would think that, if Egypt can gain a cease fire here, that would go a long way to giving Egypt some "cred" in the region, too. (Wouldn't hurt their position in the US, either.) I suspect Egypt might have some really strong motive to try to make things work.

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US calling on Egypt to sway Palestinians to end hostilities, official says

Perhaps if the US would call on both sides to end hostilities?

I wish I could say I thought a cease fire or a truce of some sort is going to happen soon, but both leaderships in Gaza and Israel seem pretty hungry for blood at the moment.

There was a ceasefire set up by Hamas and Egypt and the various militant groups in Gaza before the Israeli offensive yesterday, although it hadn't really been tested.

Now things look pretty bleak. I hoped things would calm down over last night or today, but there's no sign of it so far.

https://twitter.com/pdanahar

AP: Israel moving troops towards Gaza for a possible ground invasion of the Palestinian territory.

2:20 PM

https://twitter.com/crispiandjb

Hamas says a Tunisian delegation will visit Gaza on Sunday. Egyptian PM still expected there tomorrow

2:07 PM

Israeli missile destroys an electricity generator that fed the house of Hamas prime minister Haniyeh

2:18 PM

http://www.latimes.com/news/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-egypt-united-states-gaza-20121115,0,3238830.story

Egypt calls on U.S. to help stop Gaza fighting

Egypt asked the United States on Thursday to immediately intervene to stop the Israeli military operation in the Gaza Strip, warning that the violence could spiral "out of control," the Foreign Ministry said Thursday.

Egypt also announced that its prime minister would travel to Gaza on Friday, an additional sign that the country's Islamist-led government is under pressure from across the region to help find an end to the conflict.

Egypt "will stand with all of its resources to end this aggression and to stop the recurring killing and bloodshed of Palestinians," President Mohamed Morsi said on national television. "The Israelis must understand that we do not accept this aggression and that it can only negatively affect the stability and safety of the region."

Place the United Nations on the West Bank: .

Place Nato HQ at the Golan

It will fix itself

I wish I could say I thought a cease fire or a truce of some sort is going to happen soon, but both leaderships in Gaza and Israel seem pretty hungry for blood at the moment.

Yeah, Israel was bombing and airstriking (and Hamas was missiling) before an Israeli got killed.

I don't see things de-escellating, after that.

Oh goody, just in time for the holidays!!

Yahoo: U.S. backs Israel on Gaza—including use of ground forces

The White House on Thursday threw its full support behind Israel's military response to a barrage of rockets fired by the Islamist Palestinian movement Hamas that rules the Gaza Strip. Deputy National Security Adviser for Strategic Communications Ben Rhodes said it would be "up to the Israeli government" whether to follow up punishing airstrikes with a ground assault.

"Our view is that the Israelis have the right of self-defense when their citizens are faced with the threat of indiscriminate rocket fire from within Gaza," Rhodes told reporters on a conference call.

Asked whether the Obama administration would have any issues with an Israeli ground assault, Rhodes replied that "ultimately, it's up to the Israeli government to make determinations about how they're going to carry out their military objectives."

I can certainly understand. I can't really expect Israel to sit there and be shelled. (Article mentions over 200 rockets fired into Israel. Just yesterday.)

I can wish that it wasn't happening. But I'm not sure I can blame them.

So we back them when we should ask for simple de-escalation.

and were silent when we should back them

Yahoo: U.S. backs Israel on Gaza—including use of ground forces

I can certainly understand. I can't really expect Israel to sit there and be shelled. (Article mentions over 200 rockets fired into Israel. Just yesterday.)

I can wish that it wasn't happening. But I'm not sure I can blame them.

Those 200 rockets on Thursday were in response to the killing of their leader and a bunch of random civilians throughout Gaza on Wednesday, after they had agreed to a ceasefire.

It's questionable that the offensive is in response to the rocket attacks earlier in the week.

There was a lot of speculation yesteday even among Israeli media that this is mainly political.

In any case it won't solve anything, it will kill a lot of innocent people on both sides though (mostly in Gaza so far) and make things worse. Especially if there is a ground attack.

Not that I support the dumb asses in Gaza who are firing rockets off and making ridiculous claims of hitting Israeli military targets.

There's obviously nothing good that can come from that either.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/live-blog-rockets-fall-in-tel-aviv-area-idf-renews-aerial-assault-on-gaza-1.478193

LIVE BLOG: Rockets fall in Tel Aviv area; IDF renews aerial assault on Gaza

After another day of esacalating violence with Gaza on Thursday, three Israelis were killed in a rocket strike on Kiryat Malakhi, and Hamas rockets hit the Tel Aviv area for the first time.

Meanwhile, Israeli forces prepared for a possible ground invasion of Gaza. Government spokesmen said Israel was not interested in a cease-fire now but rather in continuing the offensive in the words of one spokesman, "until Hamas begs for a cease-fire."

Altogether, military sources said, Palestinians have fired more than 275 rockets at Israel since Israel's assassination of Ahmad Jabari, the head of Hamas' military wing, on Wednesday. Some of Thursday's launches landed in Holon and Rishon Letzion, but the two rockets that were apparently aimed at Tel Aviv landed in the sea.

12:15 P.M. French President Francois Hollande has begun talks with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and other world leaders to avert an escalation of violence in the Gaza Strip, Prime Minister Jean-Francois Ayrault said on Thursday.

"It's time to stop this escalation, which is dangerous for the security of Israel and its people and for that of the Palestinian people," Ayrault told reporters during a visit to Berlin. France had made "direct contact" with Netanyahu and Egyptian Prime Minister Mohamed Morsi, he added. (Reuters)