DCSaints_fan Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 I'm still trying to figure out what this whole offensive is supposed to accomplish other than set Hamas back a bit, kill a ton of civilians, make more people hate Israel and the US, and cause havoc among our allies in the region. First come the airstrikes Then come the ground troops Then come the bulldozers Then the construction crews Then the settlements Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted November 20, 2012 Author Share Posted November 20, 2012 First come the airstrikesThen come the ground troops Then come the bulldozers Then the construction crews Then the settlements Not sure, but I don't think there are any settlements in Gaza. I think they only do the settlements to the Palestinians who don't vote for Hamas and don't fire rockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCSaints_fan Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Not sure, but I don't think there are any settlements in Gaza. I think they only do the settlements to the Palestinians who don't vote for Hamas and don't fire rockets. They had some before, they probably will soon again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/20/us-palestinians-israel-un-idUSBRE8AI19720121120 Russia accuses U.S. of blocking U.N. action on Israel-Gaza conflictRussia accused the United States on Monday of blocking a bid by the U.N. Security Council to condemn the escalating conflict between Israel and the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip and said other council members were filibustering the issue. The United States said, however, it was important that the 15-member council does not harm efforts under way in Cairo to broker a truce between Israel and Palestinian Hamas militants in Gaza. The Security Council held heated closed-door negotiations on a possible statement, but diplomats said a sticking point was that the text did not mention Hamas missile attacks on Israel. Israel said it was these attacks that prompted its major offensive against the militants in Gaza. Council members were consulting with their capitals on the draft statement, which needs to be approved by consensus, but several diplomats said it was unlikely an agreement would be reached by a Tuesday morning deadline. http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/20/us-palestinians-israel-hamas-idUSBRE8AD0WP20121120 Gaza truce pressure builds, Cairo in focusInternational pressure for a ceasefire in the Gaza Strip puts Egypt's new Islamist president in the spotlight on Tuesday after a sixth day of Palestinian rocket fire and Israeli air strikes that have killed over 100 people. Israel's leaders weighed the benefits and risks of sending tanks and infantry into the densely populated coastal enclave two months before an Israeli election, and indicated they would prefer a diplomatic path backed by world powers, including U.S. President Barack Obama, the European Union and Russia. Any such solution may pass through Egypt, Gaza's other neighbor and the biggest Arab nation, where the ousting of U.S. ally Hosni Mubarak and election of President Mohamed Mursi is part of a dramatic reshaping of the Middle East, wrought by the Arab Spring and now affecting the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak UN Secretary General Ban Ki-Moon to meet Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu and Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas in push for Gaza ceasefire 12:24 PM President Obama discusses the de-escalation of Gaza conflict in call to Egyptian PM, stressing need for Hamas to end rocket fire on Israel 2:13 PM Israeli Cabinet has met to discuss an Egyptian proposal for truce to end Gaza conflict 2:23 PM https://twitter.com/andersoncooper 4 rockets just fired from near media center in Gaza City. The same media center bldg hit by three IDF missiles earlier today 6:59 PM https://twitter.com/nicolealjazeera At least 3 rockets have been fired from Gaza and intercepted by Israel's iron dome system tonight. We could see this from the office. 7:27 PM 4 killed in Jabalyia refugee camp by airstrike. Man, his wife, 2 young boys killed. 7:30 PM The Islamic National Bank is used by Hamas to pay salaries to government employees, police, civil servants etc 7:33 PM https://twitter.com/pdanahar It has been a remarkably quiet night in Gaza so far perhaps first real indication of political progress in Egypt. 9:52 PM I've heard no naval bombardment & no air strikes where I am in central Gaza though perhaps they are elsewhere 10:05 PM Oh there you go, a distant air strike. So maybe it has been a 'relatively' quiet night after all 10:09 PM Either way, a great deal quieter. Previous 2 nights between 0000-0800 was almost nothing leaving Gaza now seems Israel too has eased off 10:12 PM https://twitter.com/WashingtonPoint Turkish FM Davutoglu will be arriving to Gaza tomorrow-Tuesday. Assuming IDF would stop bombing by then? 10:59 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted November 20, 2012 Author Share Posted November 20, 2012 Keeping fingers crossed. Maybe things are easing off. (And I love the irony of Russia complaining about the US blocking UN intervention in this fight. "So, speaking of Syria, . . . ") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSF Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Most of the "missiles" are something that you can make with scrap metal and a little fertilizer, its important to have perspective as to just what these "missiles" are.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qassam_rocket They really don't do much more than scare the population and disrupt the day to day life of Israelis. They are not a terribly real threat to Israeli lives (only 20 or so Israelis have been killed by rocket fire in the last decade or so). Most of what is smuggled in is food, building materials, and other essential items that the Israelis don't let in or don't let in in significant numbers with their illegal blockade of Gaza. ---------- Post added November-18th-2012 at 09:26 AM ---------- Because Israel is an ally but also because they have an extremely powerful lobbying group, capture a very important voting demographic, and are very useful for the United States to project power. You would have found similar support of South African apartheid in the 1970s. So since the rockets are crude and hardly kill anybody Isreal should just sit by and let Hamas continue to fire them? The US is not the only free country that supports Isreal here, and there's a reason: Isreal has a right to defend themselves. I can just imagine if Mexico started lobbing crude rockets into Texas what would happen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 It will be sad to see Egypt backtrack on the historic 1978 Camp David Accord. That has always served as one of the few positive signs that peace might one day be possible. I don't think Israel want's any of Egypt, and Egypt certainly doesn't want any of Israel. Egypt might huff and puff but I don't think they are going to take a poke at Israel and force Israel to swat them back as everybody knows very well would occur... The US is actually pretty pleased with the constructive role the Egyptian government is taking. pressuring Hamas to step back. IIf its true that they're turning a blind eye to tunneling, then they functionally already have. If Egypt permitted weapons and contraband into Gaza; there would be really no need for the tunnel. What do you think Hamas uses tunnels just to provide the Egyptian government both the new one and under Mubaric plausible deniability? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 http://blogs.aljazeera.com/liveblog/topic/gaza-136 8 minutes agoUS blocks UN Security Council call for Gaza cease-fire as unbalanced against Israel. [source: AP] https://twitter.com/MahirZeynalov 11 Arab FMs and Davutoglu will assure Hamas in Gaza while Clinton will assure Netanyahu that both sides will honor their promise of truce. 12:19 PM 128 Palestinians, mostly civilians, were killed in 1,500 strikes on Gaza. 840 people wounded, including 225 children. 1:05 PM https://twitter.com/HalaGorani Senior Hamas official tells CNN a "calming down" will be announced at 9p local (2 pET). Source says "calming down" not same as "ceasefire." 12:26 PM https://twitter.com/pdanahar Air strike in gaza minutes after rocket took off.12:55 PM BBC's @Rushdibbc tells me the last few hours before a ceasefire in Gaza comes into affect are often the most dangerous 1:00 PM https://twitter.com/alextomo c4news gaza. Two journalists from Al Aqsa TV killed today in Israeli airstrike on their car. 12:56 PM c4news gaza sustained naval bombardment underway into Gaza City - ceasefire announcemenrt at 7pm? I wonder. 1:38 PM https://twitter.com/bencnn Lots of outgoing rockets from Gaza tonight.12:53 PM Changing tune: Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri sends SMS saying Israel has yet to agree to terms. Hostilities continue. Gaza 1:07 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Keeping fingers crossed. Maybe things are easing off. with a 940 Palestinian casualties ( including reportedly 24 dead and 225 wounded children ) on the Palestinian side to 3 casualties on the Israeli side the UN, US, EU and Egypt are starting to pressure Israel to back off.... Telling them they made their point; as Israel calls up reservists in preparation for a ground invasion of one of the most densely populated places on earth. We will see if Israel agrees with the international community or if they feel the need to hit Gaza a little harder. From today.. By Tuesday, 128 Palestinians, including at least 54 civilians, were killed since Israel began an air onslaught that has so far included nearly 1,500 strikes. Some 840 people have been wounded, including 225 children, Gaza health officials said. http://www.mercurynews.com/nation-world/ci_22033617/rumors-truce-between-israelis-and-palestinians-gaza Yesterday.. Reurters reported that at least 24 of the 100+ deaths have been children. http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/19/us-palestinians-israel-hamas-idUSBRE8AD0WP20121119 (And I love the irony of Russia complaining about the US blocking UN intervention in this fight. "So, speaking of Syria, . . . ") Why do you "love" that comparison? Our country best case equated with Putin's Russia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 So since the rockets are crude and hardly kill anybody Isreal should just sit by and let Hamas continue to fire them?The US is not the only free country that supports Isreal here, and there's a reason: Isreal has a right to defend themselves. I can just imagine if Mexico started lobbing crude rockets into Texas what would happen... Israel has a right not to have rockets rained down on them. (The Palestinians have more than few rights that Israel doesn't pay any attention to most of the time too, but that's another argument.) For the sake of this argument though, what makes you think Israel's offensive is a good way of stopping the rockets which were raining down? The rockets had stopped when they began the offensive and way more rockets came down after the offensive began and people have actually been killed and wounded on both sides (over 100 dead and 1000 wounded in Gaza and at least a few dead and wounded in Israel). How does this offensive solve the rocket problem and make things better? ---------- Post added November-20th-2012 at 01:43 PM ---------- Why do you "love" that comparison? Our country best case equated with Putin's Russia. Makes me wish once again that the UN veto system would be scrapped or reformed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Israel has a right not to have rockets rained down on them.(The Palestinians have more than few rights that Israel doesn't pay any attention to most of the time too, but that's another argument.) For the sake of this argument though, what makes you think Israel's offensive is a good way of stopping the rockets which were raining down? The rockets had stopped when they began the offensive and way more rockets came down after the offensive began and people have actually been killed and wounded on both sides (over 100 dead and 1000 wounded in Gaza and at least a few dead and wounded in Israel). How does this offensive solve the rocket problem and make things better? The status quo is becoming untenable. These rockets cause almost no casualties because they are unsophisticated. They are a terror weapon. The real problem here is between Hamas in GAZA and Hezbollah in southern Lebanon every square inch of Israel is now in range of rockets and have been for some time. It's only a matter of time before somebody figures out how to hook up a guidance system to those rockets to make them militarily significant. The super accurate cruise missile technology is based upon Intel 8080 CPU processors and late 1970's technology. How long before somebody figures out a way to smarten up these dumb rockets? A kit like we use for our previously dumb bombs, which now have pin point accuracy. When that occurs it's game over for the status quo. Everything is going to change quickly and dramatically and given the last few encounters not peacefully. The Israeli's which missed the hole carrot and stick analogy and just picked up on the stick are really drawing firm lines which won't allow much wiggle room when the technological balance of power shifts and the Palestinians actually have weapons which will be effective; and that day is coming. The "Iron Dome" anti missile system which we helped to fund is pretty much a placebo. It can intercept a few rockets at $60,000 per interception. Hamas and Hezbollah have an estimated 100,000 rockets or more and most cost less than $100. The entire missile defense system is geared to intercept nuke ICBM's... not these cheap rockets... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deejaydana Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 is kerfuffle a word that's still commonly used? Somehow I don't think that word fits the context of this situation. Ah well, carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heyholetsgogrant Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Hamas executes six suspected informants for Israel on Gaza streetMilitary wing Izzedine al-Qassam says those shot dead at crossroads gave details of rocket sites to the enemy Associated Press in Gaza The Guardian, Tuesday 20 November 2012 13.14 EST http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/nov/20/hamas-executes-informants-israel-gaza Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 http://www.thenational.ae/news/world/middle-east/hamas-is-at-the-mercy-of-its-more-militant-allies Hamas faces pressure from Gaza's militant groupsA lasting truce between Hamas and Israel hinges in part on the network of smaller armed Islamist groups in Gaza, say analysts. Tensions have been rising in recent years, with the miltant groups accusing Hamas, the territory's rulers, of abandoning the fight against Israel in favour of upholding a shaky truce agreed after the three-week Israeli war on the enclave four years ago. Hamas leaders have consolidated their control over Gaza since then and rarely fired rockets into Israel. For the most part, they also restrained others from doing so. But since Hamas fired hundreds of rockets in response to Israel's assassination of its top military commander last week, criticism from other militant groups in Gaza has softened - at least for now. "It may take some time, but these tensions are bound to surface again," said Talal Okal, who lives in Gaza and is an independent analyst and expert on Hamas. "And this could mean just another cycle of violence like we've just experienced." Grating against this, however, are groups such as Islamic Jihad, Gaza's second-most powerful militant group, and smaller outfits of Salafist fighters who espouse views far more radical than Hamas.Salafist fighters have become a nuisance to Hamas, coordinating attacks against Israel and in Egypt's Sinai area on their own. A member of Hamas's armed wing, the Al Qassam Brigades, said the group had to work especially hard to restrain Salafis from firing mortars and rockets at Israel. Before the recent fighting, he said that Hamas had increased its efforts to restrain one such Salafist group in particular, the Jaljalat. It consists of disgruntled Hamas members who defected because they believed the group had abandoned armed resistance against Israel. "If there is a ceasefire, we will do our utmost to stop these groups, even if that means using force," said the Al Qassam member, who lives in the southern Gaza Strip city of Khan Younis. https://twitter.com/erinmcunningham Biiiig airstrike in central Gaza City right now. Preceded by loud swoop of Israeli F16.2:10 PM https://twitter.com/pdanahar Huge round landed not far from our bureau. Enormous amount of artillery fire now1:48 PM There really is an awful lot of artillery fire coming into Gaza at moment from Israel Sometimes more than 10 rounds in one burst of fire 1:51 PM Well that was lucky moments after we drove past the Palestinian legislative council building in Gaza it was bombed 2:16 PM http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/20/world/meast/gaza-israel-strike/index.html? Meanwhile, a source familiar with discussions in Jerusalem told CNN that Israel has not agreed to a cease-fire. "One of the Israeli demands is that there should be a period of total calm for 24 hours before committing to any agreement," that official said. Negotiations are continuing, the source said."It's in the hands now of the Israelis," Osama Hamdan, Hamas spokesman in Beirut, told CNN by phone. After negotiation efforts by Egypt, "It's in the hands now of the Israelis. I think the Egyptians are waiting for some support, promised support, from the United States in order to make an end for that. So we expect to have an outcome of this issue today as President Morsy has said." https://twitter.com/arwaCNN presidential office in egypt says there is no announcement re ceasefire...massive blast just shook blgd, broke glass on lower floors2:23 PM Yikes, hope she's ok. https://twitter.com/HalaGorani Now Egyptian govt is saying it has no plans to make any announcement on ending violence tonight. 2:26 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuposse87 Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 seems like a broken record player with these two sides. Long term US stability would be best served by stopping all aid to Israel IMO. We aren't exactly in an economic position to be aiding in any wars that don't directly benefit us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 When that occurs it's game over for the status quo. Everything is going to change quickly and dramatically and given the last few encounters not peacefully. The Israeli's which missed the hole carrot and stick analogy and just picked up on the stick are really drawing firm lines which won't allow much wiggle room when the technological balance of power shifts and the Palestinians actually have weapons which will be effective; and that day is coming. The "Iron Dome" anti missile system which we helped to fund is pretty much a placebo. It can intercept a few rockets at $60,000 per interception. Hamas and Hezbollah have an estimated 100,000 rockets or more and most cost less than $100. The entire missile defense system is geared to intercept nuke ICBM's... not these cheap rockets... The status quo is they will eliminate real threats and exact retribution(the level depends on the threat) , MAD has been in play for attacks on pop centers for a long time. That 'placebo' is going to be worth a lot of money and lives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted November 20, 2012 Author Share Posted November 20, 2012 with a 940 Palestinian casualties ( including reportedly 24 dead and 225 wounded children ) on the Palestinian side to 3 casualties on the Israeli side the UN, US, EU and Egypt are starting to pressure Israel to back off.... Telling them they made their point; as Israel calls up reservists in preparation for a ground invasion of one of the most densely populated places on earth. We will see if Israel agrees with the international community or if they feel the need to hit Gaza a little harder. Now, that's one of the things I find myself skeptical on. Looking at these reports, it seems like children always account for 1/4 or more of the casualties. Now, I've read claims that, whenever there's an air strike or whatever, that volunteers immediately run to the nearest hospital, pull out bodies from the morgue (especially women and children) who have recently died, and deliver their bodies to the blast site, and claim that they were martyred. (Yes, I assume that both sides do this.) And these numbers make me wonder if children represent 1/4 of the people in Palestine, or are these numbers funny. Why do you "love" that comparison? Our country best case equated with Putin's Russia. I "love" the irony of Russia accusing somebody else of blocking the UN from intervening in a situation where civilians are being killed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Now, that's one of the things I find myself skeptical on. Looking at these reports, it seems like children always account for 1/4 or more of the casualties. Now, I've read claims that, whenever there's an air strike or whatever, that volunteers immediately run to the nearest hospital, pull out bodies from the morgue (especially women and children) who have recently died, and deliver their bodies to the blast site, and claim that they were martyred. (Yes, I assume that both sides do this.) And these numbers make me wonder if children represent 1/4 of the people in Palestine, or are these numbers funny. There are a lot of children in Gaza...a lot. And there are also a lot of reporters on the ground now seeing the kids dug out of rubble and brought into hospitals freshly killed/wounded. So I think in this case the casualties are pretty accurate. But I agree that often in these sorts of conflicts the numbers are either very inaccurate or tottally fabricated. It's possible that some of that is going on here, but it's pretty certain that a lot of kids are being killed/wounded, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 seems like a broken record player with these two sides. Long term US stability would be best served by stopping all aid to Israel IMO. We aren't exactly in an economic position to be aiding in any wars that don't directly benefit us. I think Israel is beyond that. We can't walk away right now, the way things are and expect them to sort themselves out on their own. The model we should use is the one Clinton used, ( which I was so critical off in the 1990's.).... We need to tamp down the violence on both sides and see if we can grow a few more moderates to reach a critical mass leading to peace. We certainly don't have such a critical mass presently on either side. Netanyahu is as bad or worse than Arial Sharon who spent the majority of his political career on the extreme fringe right of Israeli politics. And Hamas is a full blown terrorist organization which we don't even have any ties with... I would argue we need to get more involved diplomatically starting with actually getting communication lines open with all the antagonists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted November 20, 2012 Author Share Posted November 20, 2012 Meanwhile, a source familiar with discussions in Jerusalem told CNN that Israel has not agreed to a cease-fire. "One of the Israeli demands is that there should be a period of total calm for 24 hours before committing to any agreement," that official said. Negotiations are continuing, the source said. Love that one. "We will not agree to any cease fire until after there has been a cease fire. (On their side.)" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 I would argue we need to get more involved diplomatically starting with actually getting communication lines open with all the antagonists. I think this is a good idea, but there are some problems with it. There are a few actors involved who thrive on continued violence there. Iran and some of their supported groups and some of the more extreme elements for instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Now, that's one of the things I find myself skeptical on. Looking at these reports, it seems like children always account for 1/4 or more of the casualties. Now, I've read claims that, whenever there's an air strike or whatever, that volunteers immediately run to the nearest hospital, pull out bodies from the morgue (especially women and children) who have recently died, and deliver their bodies to the blast site, and claim that they were martyred. (Yes, I assume that both sides do this.) And these numbers make me wonder if children represent 1/4 of the people in Palestine, or are these numbers funny. No you have a good point. Hamas is a terrorist organization but they are also the democratically elected representatives of the people of Gaza. So questioning their numbers would seem reasonable... On the other hand Israel has 1,500 strikes on Gaza using bombs, and artillery in one of the most densely populated places on earth. Not exactly precision weapons, and the CIA fact book says 43.8% the population of Gaza is under the age of 14.. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/gz.html I "love" the irony of Russia accusing somebody else of blocking the UN from intervening in a situation where civilians are being killed. Yeah I know I'm just being troublesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Anderson Cooper is on live in Gaza right now on CNN.... Showing a tape of Ben Wedeman from earlier, now back to live footage. Arwa Damon in Gaza with Anderson and Wolf Blitzer in Israel. Looks like the cease fire/calming down is dead or at least postponded to another day. Just showed footage of a "collaborater" being dragged down the street by motorcycles. Hillary has landed in Tel Aviv and will meet with Bibi, Abbas, and Morsi. (according to Blitzer) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMS Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 The status quo is they will eliminate real threats and exact retribution(the level depends on the threat) , MAD has been in play for attacks on pop centers for a long time.That 'placebo' is going to be worth a lot of money and lives No military action Israel has ever taken has "eliminated" a threat. The only avenue to peace that has ever delivered reliable dependable peace has been through negotiation. Every war Israel has ever fought have been against the same group of antagonists she previously defeated... again and again and again and again... over and over and over again. Suggesting Israel will "eliminate" 1.7 million people half of whom are children and the world community would somehow allow that are in both instances delusional. Israel has been trying to deal with Gaza for decades now. I don't dismiss that some in Israel would advocate for such a policy... but I just don't see it happening.. I don't see the majority of Israeli's authorizing it. I don't see the United States giving the weapons or resupply to enable it. I don't see the world standing by and allow it. But something will certainly happen if the Palestinians actually get creditable weapons and create a more even playing field. Maybe that will be a return to the status quo of the 40's - 50's and 60's when Israel was constantly calling for peace negotiations and it was the Palestinians who were stone walling. Maybe not though. ---------- Post added November-20th-2012 at 03:12 PM ---------- I think this is a good idea, but there are some problems with it.There are a few actors involved who thrive on continued violence there. Iran and some of their supported groups and some of the more extreme elements for instance. Iran isn't technically one of the antagonists... they are the suppliers to the antagonists..... The antagonists are kinda a little worse than Iran. Hamas and Hezbollah are full blown terrorist organizations which we don't talk too cause both don't recognize Irsrael's right ot exist. Doesn't give us a lot of wiggle room to find common ground historically. So we have no ties with them. I would argue we should have ties with them though, cause when troubles occur even Israel talks to them... We should too even if it's only to try to find common ground. That's going to be controversial enough to fill one president's entire second term if it occurred... ---------- Post added November-20th-2012 at 03:18 PM ---------- I think this is a good idea, but there are some problems with it.There are a few actors involved who thrive on continued violence there. Iran and some of their supported groups and some of the more extreme elements for instance. Here is my plan... #1... We open up ties to all the parties in the troubles so at leas we can hear from each what their issues are. #2....We stop looking after Israeli interests in exclusion to our own interests....... #3... We use all of our means to stop any eruption of violence, especially disproportional responses which server no purpose other than to ratchet up the extremism on both sides. Our interests in that region are for everybody to have peace and security and that doesn't always align itself to the folks fighting in these troubles. We should pursue our interests in that region and not allow ourselves to be the political pawn of anybody. Coarse I'm an idealist and politically stunted.. but those are the first steps I would take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 No military action Israel has ever taken has "eliminated" a threat. The only avenue to peace that has ever delivered reliable dependable peace has been through negotiation. Every war Israel has ever fought have been against the same group of antagonists she previously defeated... again and again and again and again... over and over and over again.. the people are not considered the threat, and they certainly have eliminated many threats(both human and otherwise) peace will come when both parties are willing...as will destruction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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