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Israel-Palestine kerfuffle


Larry

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http://www.salon.com/2012/11/15/anonymous_retaliates_to_israels_gaza_internet_threat/

Anonymous retaliates to Israel’s Gaza Internet threat:

When it comes to cyber-warfare, however, the IDF’s foes are legion. Diffuse hacker collective Anonymous on Thursday announced #OpIsrael via Twitter in response to Israel’s threats. In a release posted on Pastebin, Anonymous wrote:

For far to long, Anonymous has stood by with the rest of the world and watched in despair the barbaric, brutal and despicable treatment of the Palestinian people in the so called “Occupied Territories” by the Israel Defense Force. Like so many around the globe, we have felt helpless in the face of such implacable evil. And today’s insane attack and threatened invasion of Gaza was more of the same.

When the government of Israel publicly threatened to sever all Internet and other telecommunications into and out of Gaza they crossed a line in the sand. As the former dictator of Egypt Mubarack learned the hard way – we are ANONYMOUS and NO ONE shuts down the Internet on our watch. To the IDF and government of Israel we issue you this warning only once. Do NOT shut down the Internet into the “Occupied Territories”, and cease and desist from your terror upon the innocent people of Palestine or you will know the full and unbridled wrath of Anonymous. And like all the other evil governments that have faced our rage, you will NOT survive it unscathed.

Cont'd at link

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Crossing fingers.

(One of the many little voices I hear is wondering if maybe, if Egypt really wanted peace, they could stop smuggling in missiles into Gaza? I hear that a lot of them supposedly come in via tunnels from Egypt.)

Most of the "missiles" are something that you can make with scrap metal and a little fertilizer, its important to have perspective as to just what these "missiles" are.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qassam_rocket

They really don't do much more than scare the population and disrupt the day to day life of Israelis. They are not a terribly real threat to Israeli lives (only 20 or so Israelis have been killed by rocket fire in the last decade or so).

Most of what is smuggled in is food, building materials, and other essential items that the Israelis don't let in or don't let in in significant numbers with their illegal blockade of Gaza.

---------- Post added November-18th-2012 at 09:26 AM ----------

Also interesting is how nearly every US politician in the House, Senate, and Presidency is supporting Israel throughout this crisis

Checked over Nancy Pelosi and Marco Rubio tweets, both echo the same support

Any particular reason for this solidarity which is unifying two bitter parties

Because Israel is an ally but also because they have an extremely powerful lobbying group, capture a very important voting demographic, and are very useful for the United States to project power. You would have found similar support of South African apartheid in the 1970s.

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http://m.apnews.com/ap/db_289563/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=xjq6JKmB

Obama defends Israel's right to defend itself

President Barack Obama on Sunday defended Israel's airstrikes on the Gaza Strip, but he warned that escalating the offensive with Israeli ground troops could deepen the death toll and undermine any hope of a peace process with the Palestinians.

"Israel has every right to expect that it does not have missiles fired into its territory," Obama said at the start of a three-nation tour in Asia.

"If that can be accomplished without a ramping up of military activity in Gaza, that's preferable," he said. "It's not just preferable for the people of Gaza. It's also preferable for Israelis, because if Israeli troops are in Gaza, they're much more at risk of incurring fatalities or being wounded."

Obama's comments came as Israel's campaign against Hamas militants in Gaza blasted into its fifth day. Israel is at a crossroads of whether to launch a ground invasion or pursue Egyptian-led truce efforts, and Obama sought to clearly defend the U.S. ally's military rights while pushing for a halt in the violence.

I'm still trying to figure out what this whole offensive is supposed to accomplish other than set Hamas back a bit, kill a ton of civilians, make more people hate Israel and the US, and cause havoc among our allies in the region.

https://twitter.com/pdanahar

I'm back down at Shifa hospital. The worse case patients are being loaded into ambulances & taken to Egypt

7:41 AM

Suddenly hospitals busting with activity two children have been brought in one covered in blood his brother hysterical

7:44 AM

And more children have come in they look like they've been dug out of rubble. There's screaming and crying and chaos

7:45 AM

A nurse has broken down and is crying in the corner her colleagues are trying to comfort her. Awful scenes here

7:47 AM

The injured arriving at Shifa hospital in Gaza are from air attack north of Gaza city. 3 dead-1 woman 2 children. 10 injured

8:06 AM

https://twitter.com/pdanahar

Men are dragging away rocks and rubble with their hands trying to get to the people underneath it seems impossible anyone alive

8:48 AM

I am standing in front of a huge crater which is still smoking. Rescue efforts are now moving toward neighboring houses

8:56 AM

Lots of men holding folding stretchers hoping for more survivors. Only one little girl brought out. She was dead Gaza

9:01 AM

Most of the casualties are from the family of a Hamas man whose house was hit. The rest are his neighbors

9:03 AM

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Most of the "missiles" are something that you can make with scrap metal and a little fertilizer, its important to have perspective as to just what these "missiles" are.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qassam_rocket

They really don't do much more than scare the population and disrupt the day to day life of Israelis. They are not a terribly real threat to Israeli lives (only 20 or so Israelis have been killed by rocket fire in the last decade or so).

That is a possible answer to Larry's question of how they can supposedly fire thousands of the things, and not hit a bloomin thing.

---------- Post added November-18th-2012 at 09:33 AM ----------

And here is exactly why Netanyahu is escalating/starting this war.

Now, now. Some folks have observed that the same thing happened during the lame-duck period following the previous US Presidential elections, too.

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And here is exactly why Netanyahu is escalating/starting this war.

Didn't read the wiki, but one interesting viewpoint is that the people of Hamas felt emboldened by the Arab Springs or at least the growth of fundamentalism in neighboring regions. That, and the much more open supply of munitions from Iran, Egypt, and elsewhere. Israel was feeling penned in and thus when those first couple of hundred rockets came raining in they decided to strike back hard trying to make a statement. It might be the reason why they went after the military leader which really put this from low boil to where we stand today.

I'm basing this on inteviews I had Thursday and Friday with people in Israel, Gaza, and abroad.

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Didn't read the wiki, but one interesting viewpoint is that the people of Hamas felt emboldened by the Arab Springs or at least the growth of fundamentalism in neighboring regions. That, and the much more open supply of munitions from Iran, Egypt, and elsewhere. Israel was feeling penned in and thus when those first couple of hundred rockets came raining in they decided to strike back hard trying to make a statement. It might be the reason why they went after the military leader which really put this from low boil to where we stand today.

I'm basing this on inteviews I had Thursday and Friday with people in Israel, Gaza, and abroad.

Was it not the Israeli assassination of an Hamas leader who negotiated a cease fire that started this?

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http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/ML_ISRAEL_PALESTINIANS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-11-18-08-40-47

Israel, Egypt talk Gaza ceasefire as strikes widen

An Israeli envoy held talks with Egyptian officials Sunday on a ceasefire in his country's offensive on Gaza as Israel widened the range of its targets, striking more than a dozen homes of Hamas militants and two media officials. Seven civilians were killed, including five children, in the conflict's highest one-day civilian toll yet, according to security officials and witnesses.

Upon arrival at Cairo's international airport, the Israeli official was whisked away directly from the tarmac and taken to talks with Egyptian authorities, Egyptian security officials said, speaking on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to talk to the press. They did not identify the Israeli official.

Egypt has been leading international efforts to broker a truce since Israel launched its offensive five days earlier aimed at stopping Gaza rocket attacks. But Israel and Gaza's militant Hamas rulers remain far apart on any terms.

https://twitter.com/JonDonnison

health min: now 63 killed since wednesday. In one incident 10 people all from one family (Dalou family) killed in one strike on house

9:28 AM

Jamal Dalou was Hamas man targeted. Now reports he may have been killed in strike. 9 of his family r dead say Hamas pic.twitter.com/TqXLifqq

9:34 AM

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Was it not the Israeli assassination of an Hamas leader who negotiated a cease fire that started this?

I'm never certain how to figure when these things started. How far back do we go?

But no, this latest didn't begin with the assassination as far as I can tell. Here's at least one attempt to give a timeline.

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/11/who-started-the-israel-gaza-conflict/265374/

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Was it not the Israeli assassination of an Hamas leader who negotiated a cease fire that started this?

actually that was a response to a large missile attack,among other things, they tend to put up with the Quassams

the upgraded ones being fired at Tel Aviv ect will get a sterner response

http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Article.aspx?id=291300

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2012#cite_note-jpnov11-295

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I'm never certain how to figure when these things started. How far back do we go?

But no, this latest didn't begin with the assassination as far as I can tell. Here's at least one attempt to give a timeline.

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/11/who-started-the-israel-gaza-conflict/265374/

Sorry I was talking about the escalation, naturally who started it is almost impossible to determine. But the major escalation seemed to occur with the assassination of the Hamas leader

Tuesday November 13

Hamas Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh praised Gaza's main militant groups in Gaza for agreeing to the truce: "They showed a high sense of responsibility by saying they would respect calm should the Israeli occupation also abide by it," he said." Reuters

A rocket exploded in an open area in Ashdod. MFA

Wednesday November 14

Reports emerged that Israel has targeted Ahmed Jabari, head of Hamas's military wing; Israel confirmed the assassination, citing his "decade-long terrorist activity," and said that killing was the part of an operation in which the military struck 20 different targets across Gaza. HaAretz [Note: Later reports indicate that Jabari was considering a permanent truce agreement at the time of his assassination]

Over the course of the day, Israeli strikes killed 8 Palestinians, leaving 90 injured. The dead include a 65 year old man, a pregnant 19 year old, a 7 year old girl, and an 11 month old boy. Ma'an News Agency

At 10:17 PM, HaAretz summarized the day's rocket attacks: 60 rockets fired, of which the Iron Dome defense system intercepted 17; later entries for that night show another 12 rockets, some of them intercepted. HaAretz

One rocket hit an Israeli shopping center, damaging stores and a vehicle. MFA

---------- Post added November-18th-2012 at 10:00 AM ----------

actually that was a response to a large missile attack,among other things, they tend to put up with the Quassams

the upgraded ones being fired at Tel Aviv ect will get a sterner response

http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Article.aspx?id=291300

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2012#cite_note-jpnov11-295

From the Atlantic, prior to the volley of Qassams

Thursday, November 8

In an exchange of fire on the border of Gaza with militants from the Popular Resistance Committees (PRC), Israeli forces killed a 12 year old (or 13 year old ) Palestinian boy. "The PRC said it had confronted an Israeli force of four tanks and a bulldozer involved in a short-range incursion beyond Israel's border fence with the Gaza Strip." Later, Palestinian fighters blew up a tunnel along the Gaza-Israel border, injuring one Israeli soldier. Reuters

Israel's Ministry of Foreign Affairs reported the incident as follows: "An IDF [israeli military] engineering force located a number of powerful explosive devices to the west of the fence. After the IDF disarmed charges found on the Gaza side of the border, and were repairing the border fence, explosives in an underground tunnel were detonated, causing a large explosion...damaging a jeep and lightly injuring a soldier."Israeli MFA

Saturday, November 10

An IDF force patrolling near the border, inside Israel, was hit by an anti-tank missile fired from inside the Gaza Strip. Two soldiers were seriously injured. MFA

In retaliation, Israeli tanks fired into Gaza, killing four Palestinians; Palestinian fighters retaliated in turn with rockets into Israel; an Israeli air strike targeted a rocket crew, & killed a militant. "Popular Resistance Committees, said it had fired rockets at communities close to the border and the towns of Sderot and Netivot in southern Israel, in what it called 'the revenge invoice' for the deaths in Gaza." The IDF reports that "over the past few hours, 25 rockets fired from the Gaza Strip hit southern Israel." Reuters

In addition to the four Palestinians killed immediately by Israeli fire, 38 were injured, one of them dying on November 13. As a result of additional Israeli artillery fire that day, 11 Palestinians, including a 10 year old child, were also injured. An Israeli drone fired a missile at members of the armed wing of Islamic Jihad in north Gaza, killing one militant. Palestinian Center for Human Rights

Then as they were working on a truce Israel escalated.

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actually that was a response to a large missile attack,among other things, they tend to put up with the Quassams

the upgraded ones being fired at Tel Aviv ect will get a sterner response

http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Article.aspx?id=291300

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2012#cite_note-jpnov11-295

From the Atlantic, prior to the volley of Qassams

Thursday, November 8

In an exchange of fire on the border of Gaza with militants from the Popular Resistance Committees (PRC), Israeli forces killed a 12 year old (or 13 year old ) Palestinian boy. "The PRC said it had confronted an Israeli force of four tanks and a bulldozer involved in a short-range incursion beyond Israel's border fence with the Gaza Strip." Later, Palestinian fighters blew up a tunnel along the Gaza-Israel border, injuring one Israeli soldier. Reuters

Israel's Ministry of Foreign Affairs reported the incident as follows: "An IDF [israeli military] engineering force located a number of powerful explosive devices to the west of the fence. After the IDF disarmed charges found on the Gaza side of the border, and were repairing the border fence, explosives in an underground tunnel were detonated, causing a large explosion...damaging a jeep and lightly injuring a soldier."Israeli MFA

Saturday, November 10

An IDF force patrolling near the border, inside Israel, was hit by an anti-tank missile fired from inside the Gaza Strip. Two soldiers were seriously injured. MFA

In retaliation, Israeli tanks fired into Gaza, killing four Palestinians; Palestinian fighters retaliated in turn with rockets into Israel; an Israeli air strike targeted a rocket crew, & killed a militant. "Popular Resistance Committees, said it had fired rockets at communities close to the border and the towns of Sderot and Netivot in southern Israel, in what it called 'the revenge invoice' for the deaths in Gaza." The IDF reports that "over the past few hours, 25 rockets fired from the Gaza Strip hit southern Israel." Reuters

In addition to the four Palestinians killed immediately by Israeli fire, 38 were injured, one of them dying on November 13. As a result of additional Israeli artillery fire that day, 11 Palestinians, including a 10 year old child, were also injured. An Israeli drone fired a missile at members of the armed wing of Islamic Jihad in north Gaza, killing one militant. Palestinian Center for Human Rights

Then as they were working on a truce Israel escalated with the assassination or is that not the correct timeline?

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Sorry I was talking about the escalation, naturally who started it is almost impossible to determine. But the major escalation seemed to occur with the assassination of the Hamas leader

Yeah, I think it did escalate with the IDF strike into Gaza that killed that leader. Then, it got even hotter when Hamas showed they had weapons capable of reaching Tel Aviv and their willingness to target Jerusalem.

What started it though... or rather who started it though is a different matter although possibly less important than what happens now.

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http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/17/opinion/israels-shortsighted-assassination.html?smid=tw-share

Israel’s Shortsighted Assassination

the strongman of Hamas, the head of its military wing, the man responsible for the abduction of the Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit — was assassinated on Wednesday by Israeli missiles.

Why? Israel’s government has declared that the aim of the current strikes against Gaza is to rebuild deterrence so that no rockets will be fired on Israel. Israel’s targeted killings of Hamas leaders in the past sent the Hamas leadership underground and prevented rocket attacks on Israel temporarily. According to Israeli leaders, deterrence will be achieved once again by targeting and killing military and political leaders in Gaza and hitting hard at Hamas’s military infrastructure. But this policy has never been effective in the long term, even when the founder and spiritual leader of Hamas, Sheik Ahmed Yassin, was killed by Israel. Hamas didn’t lay down its guns then, and it won’t stop firing rockets at Israel now without a cease-fire agreement.

When we were negotiating with Hamas to release Mr. Shalit, members of the Israeli team believed that Mr. Jabari wouldn’t make a deal because holding Mr. Shalit was a kind of “life insurance policy.” As long as Mr. Jabari held Mr. Shalit, Israelis believed, the Hamas leader knew he was safe. The Israeli government had a freer hand to kill Mr. Jabari after Mr. Shalit was released in October 2011. His insurance policy was linked to their assessment of the value of keeping him alive. This week, that policy expired.

https://twitter.com/Repent11

Arab League delegation headed by Dr. Nabil Al Araby will head to Gaza on Tuesday for a one day trip. Visit hospitals/bombed civilians homes

8:29 AM

Around 700 Egyptians have crossed into Gaza to from Rafah to support Palestinians, chanting "We are youth of Jan25, Palestine forever free"

10:06 AM

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That might be a potential problem for Israel, too. The possibility that the victors of Arab Spring might have a problem with the occupation of Palestine.

the victors have quite a bit on their plate now....and have their hand out for money

but it could easily get uglier in the region

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https://twitter.com/FromJoanne

Delegation of 5 Libya Congress members will go to Gaza and another delegation with take Humanitarian aid GNC

11:49 AM

https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak

Sky Sources: Two rockets were intercepted by Israel's 'Iron Dome' defence system in Tel Aviv

11:51 AM

https://twitter.com/AC360

This just in: @andersoncooper is in Gaza and will report live Monday at 8pET covering all sides of the conflict ac360 http://twitter.com/AC360/status/270210681234681856/photo/1pic.twitter.com/80BAtIkL

12:09 PM

http://blogs.aljazeera.com/topic/gaza/hamas-official-90-cent-ceasefire-terms-agreed-upon

Hamas official: 90 per cent of ceasefire terms 'agreed' upon

Ghazi Hamad, Hamas spokesman, has told Al Jazeera that 90 per cent of the terms of a ceasefire currently being discussed in Cairo have been agreed upon.

Hamad's statement comes after 30 Palestinian deaths made Sunday the deadliest day of the current conflict in the Gaza strip. Among the dead was a family in the Jabalia refugee camp who lost 11 members when their residence was targeted in an Israeli airstrike.

Reportedly someone from Hamas had said earlier that talks were dead, so I'm not sure how accurate this is. :ols:

https://twitter.com/andersoncooper

Just got into Gaza http://instagr.am/p/SLqyfakkPP/

2:18 PM

In Gaza constant whine of drones overhead. Sounds like a distant lawnmower. Occasional blasts as well.

2:28 PM

A couple of explosions just now in Gaza. Incoming fire. Could feel the blast waves a few blocks away

3:14 PM

---------- Post added November-18th-2012 at 02:59 PM ----------

http://blogs.aljazeera.com/topic/gaza/airstrike-south-gaza-brings-total-death-toll-71-wednesday

Airstrike in south Gaza brings total death toll to 71 since Wednesday

An airstrike in south Gaza has killed two Palestinians.

The late Sunday attack brings the total death toll to 71 since the conflict began on Wednesday:

Children: 20

Women: 8

Elderly: 9

Adults: 34

More than 660 people have been wounded, including: 224 children, 113 women and 50 elderly

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https://twitter.com/Hanine09

500 Egyptians chanting at Al Shifa Hospital: "oh Palestinian your blood is my blood, Down Down with Israel"

4:40 PM

https://twitter.com/JamalsNews

PHOTO Egypt activists infront of Shifa hospital in central Gaza chant "down down Israel " pic.twitter.com/mR8ohCaU via @moneimpress

4:58 PM

https://twitter.com/pdanahar

Israeli navy once again hitting Gaza. 3 shells with their distinctive sound of launch & land have just been fired . Now 2 more

5:11 PM

The whole building i'm in shaking again as the ground absorbs the blows from Israeli naval artillery rounds fired into Gaza

5:17 PM

https://twitter.com/arwaCNN

explosions followed by ambulance sirens pierce through the air gaza & nonstop drone buzz

5:30 PM

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https://twitter.com/NMSyria

Last huge air strike on Gaza targeted the Abbas police station near al-Shifa hospital.

7:09 PM

Air strike near al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza

7:08 PM

https://twitter.com/arwaCNN

Massive explosion shook bldg we r in, seems target was police station down the road

7:15 PM

Another large explosion also very close

7:16 PM

https://twitter.com/Beltrew

Jesus that was close. Massive explosion next to us by Al-Sifaa hospital followed by another one on other side. Ambulances coming in Gaza

7:30 PM

https://twitter.com/nicolealjazeera

Bomb blast in middle of live with AJE - destroyed a police station in Gaza City, about 400 metres from the Al Jazeera office building.

7:41 PM

https://twitter.com/JonDonnison

Pretyy constant rythmic shelling by Israeli navy for last minute or so.

8:39 PM

Whatever Israeli navy is firing on in Northern Gaza must look a mess. Dozens of shells fired in last few minutes

8:41 PM

https://twitter.com/nicolealjazeera

Call to prayer across Gaza city as death toll hits 80. 5 killed on Monday. 3 in Zeitoun in Gaza City.

9:23 PM

Man, woman and child killed in attack on house in Zeitoun.

9:23 PM

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http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/bestoftv/2012/11/18/wr-pleitgen-bomb-scare-live.cnni#/video/bestoftv/2012/11/18/wr-pleitgen-bomb-scare-live.cnni

Rocket hits Israel during CNN live shot

Added on November 18, 2012

Air raid sirens sounded and a rocket hit as CNN's Frederik Pleitgen spoke to Colleen McEdwards from Ashkelon, Israel

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hNiNiYhEa3CgIcRc9dH9Xh13_zBw?docId=CNG.201382c211d75dbc632cfc31b8868145.281

Morocco says setting up Gaza field hospital

Morocco announced on Sunday it will set up a field hospital in the Gaza Strip to help Palestinians injured in Israeli air strikes, which the king described as "military aggression" in a statement.

Mohammed VI "ordered the immediate setting up of a Moroccan field hospital in the Gaza Strip," which will include medical staff from "the armed forces as well as Moroccan civilian doctors and paramedics," the statement from the royal palace said.

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/idf-gaza-civilians-killed-due-to-faulty-air-strike.premium-1.478887#

IDF: Gaza civilians killed due to faulty air strike

IDF officials said Sunday that the IAF mistakenly bombed the home of a Palestinian family, apparently due to a technical error while targeting a senior Hamas militant in charge of the group's rocket firing teams.

The IDF announced that nine Palestinians have been killed and 20 wounded in the attack on a house in the Nasser neighborhood of Gaza City. Most of the casualties were unarmed civilians, including children and infants, the IDF stated. According to the IDF report, the source of the error was either the failure to paint the target of the attack on the correct site or that one of the munitions in the strike misfired. The army is still investigating the causes behind the incident.

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Yeah, one of the things that always strikes me (no pun intended) about these stories is how the Palestenians can be such bad shots. Hundreds of rockets, and not one hit? I would have thought they'd have better odds simply firing blind.

Levin: Obama Deserves Credit for Israel's 'Iron Dome'

Sen. Carl Levin, chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, says the Obama administration deserves some credit for Israel’s “Iron Dome” missile defense system, which has protected Israelis during the rocket assaults that have taken place in the last five days.

...

As Israel continues its assault on Gaza, the country’s defense shield has protected its major cities from Palestinian rocket fire. On Sunday, a long-range missile was intercepted and destroyed en route to Tel Aviv.

Click on the link for the full article

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