Lack of QB pressure; coaching, players or both?

Been texting with my brother from a different mother, fellow Skins fan and CO resident about this weeks game. It started with a text "took Skins over Falcons in office pool, heart over head?". Of course I'm an optimist, I mean you HAVE to be to be a Redskin fan, or a glutton for punishment and a laughing stock among friends for following faithfully through the Snyder era...anyway, let me get to the point.

I told him I definitely feel we can win, especially if our secondary shows up. He agreed but raised me with "our DL has to get pressure up the middle on Ryan". Well touché! So that led into 9 hours of intermittent texting between classes and during a much needed BM. Lol.

My assessment is we don't have any dominant D-lineman who can get manhandle OL's on a consistent basis so we have to have the schemes to create opportunities. However, from Ive seen our blitzes are not well disquised at all and actually are pretty damn obvious. I look at the teams we've played and see how other teams succeeded against them and wonder why we can't do the same. Especially when our D's seem evenly matched. Coaching or players?

Are we still trying to put a square peg in a round hole by switching to the 3-4 and Has doesn't have the personnel to scheme effectively?

Or is it a little bit of both? I know I have an inflated opinion of our talent, especially considering my blindness caused by burgundy and gold cataracts.

One more thing, has anyone else noticed Alexander outrunning nearly everyone on ST? With his size and speed how can we not devise a scheme to get him free on a speed rush? I don't see many OT's being as fast as him. I mean, atleast situationally.

What say you ES?

Something haz to change.

We have the personnel to run the 3-4. Not having Orakpo hurts, because Jackson isn't good enough to replace him. Our front seven is one of the best in the league. The weakness of our D is the secondary, not the scheme. Gomes and Doughty are good depth players, but they shouldn't be full-time starters.

In our 3-4, we don't really need the DL to get pressure per se. We need them to get a push up front, and not allow Ryan to climb the pocket.

Something haz to change.

Lol! I see what you did there! :cop:

The defense is too predictible. If they know what's coming it makes it easier to counter. It's one of the reason the kitchen sink blitzes never work.

We have the personnel to run the 3-4. Not having Orakpo hurts, because Jackson isn't good enough to replace him. Our front seven is one of the best in the league. The weakness of our D is the secondary, not the scheme. Gomes and Doughty are good depth players, but they shouldn't be full-time starters.

In our 3-4, we don't really need the DL to get pressure per se. We need them to get a push up front, and not allow Ryan to climb the pocket.

We're stout against the run, no doubt, no one has really run wild on us and honestly that's where Doughty excels. Personally I like him better against the run than I did LL, I mean, when LL was actually on the field. Do you think our blitz packages are so straight forward because we're trying to protect our secondary?

I'm ok with our LB's, it's our front three that I'm not seeing as effective as I'd like. I mean, they get the push but it seems like our OLB's get pushed wide and when our ILB's do go they seem to get caught up in the line. I don't know, just seems like we bring the same stuff every game, no matter who we're playing. How can Detroit get 4 sacks and 8 QB hits against the Rams and we turn around the next week and sack Bradford twice with three hits? That's a difference of 7 licks on the QB! Now, don't get me wrong Fairley and Suh are both beasts, but are they that much better than our DL?

---------- Post added October-4th-2012 at 09:16 PM ----------

The defense is too predictible. If they know what's coming it makes it easier to counter. It's one of the reason the kitchen sink blitzes never work.

And that's what I see Burgold, if I'm predicting what the defense is about to do, is it impossible to think a starting NFL QB and coaching staff with hours of film can't do it? I swear I see the exact same blitzes, week in and week out, even against teams with QB's we know we have to put on their asses. I agree, too damn predictable, too easy to counter or audible out of. Not to mention all you have to do is call a play where DHall gets man coverage and the WR does a double move. Lol

Bowen & Cofield don't seem to be getting as much pressure on the quarterback this year as they did last year. I know people say that it isn't the DL's job to get sacks in a 3/4 defense but it seems to me that these two guys are making way to much money not to be doing a better job of rushing the passer. If the Redskins defense is modled after the Steelers or Cowboys defense Aaron Smith(de) of the Steelers always got to the QB and Jay Ratliff(nt) of the Cowboys as well. I wish the played Arizona this year, the Rams have been teeing off on Kolb every time he goes back to pass. I don't think I ever saw a worse OL than the Cardinals are playing right now.

Bowen & Cofield don't seem to be getting as much pressure on the quarterback this year as they did last year. I know people say that it isn't the DL's job to get sacks in a 3/4 defense but it seems to me that these two guys are making way to much money not to be doing a better job of rushing the passer. If the Redskins defense is modled after the Steelers or Cowboys defense Aaron Smith(de) of the Steelers always got to the QB and Jay Ratliff(nt) of the Cowboys as well. I wish the played Arizona this year, the Rams have been teeing off on Kolb every time he goes back to pass. I don't think I ever saw a worse OL than the Cardinals are playing right now.

Our problem is we have all 4-3 coaches running a 3-4 using Lou Spanos playbook he brought from Pittsburgh. Yep let that sink in for a minute.

Our front seven is one of the best in the league.

I hate to say it Hitman but I believe that to be homerism at its finest.

I hate to say it Hitman but I believe that to be homerism at its finest.

Orakpo, Riley, Fletcher, Kerrigan make for a top 5 LB corps. That takes a big hit with Rak being out, but it's still fairly lethal. (49ers, Steelers, maybe Ravens, maybe Packers - but that's really it with a better LB group)

Bowen, Cofield, and Jenkins is a good DL. Room for improvement, definitely, but still good.

The DL and LBs are a top 10 unit

It's talent, guys.

London is the closest thing we have to an All-Pro player, but his age shows every time he's caught in coverage by pass catching TE. We have players that are good to above average on that side of the ball, but no one that strikes the fear of God in opposing teams coaching schemes. For example: Houston runs a 3-4 just like us, but has a DE with 7.5 sacks already. It's week f'n 5...

Orakpo, Riley, Fletcher, Kerrigan make for a top 5 LB corps. That takes a big hit with Rak being out, but it's still fairly lethal. (49ers, Steelers, maybe Ravens, maybe Packers - but that's really it with a better LB group)

Bowen, Cofield, and Jenkins is a good DL. Room for improvement, definitely, but still good.

The DL and LBs are a top 10 unit

I guess that argument could be made.But many teams could claim the same. This is a "what have you done for me lately?" league.

When I ask myself that question, the answer is "not much at all".

Without question it's both. Our coaching staff hasn't shown much of a propensity for creative, unpredictable playcalling which can certainly go a long way towards putting guys in position to get quick pressure. Teams have seemingly had no problem identifying and picking up blitzes from the secondary or from the ILBs when we've dialed those plays up. It also wouldn't be too far-fetched to suspect that there are certain technical elements that the staff is not addressing well on a positional basis. However, I'd have to say that when it comes strictly to getting pressure that execution by the players is probably most to blame for the difficulties we've had.

Out of our down linemen SOMEONE needs to step up their game and actually collapse the pocket every now and again to help our edge rushers out. Cofield has been pitiful in this regard and Bowen has been less consistent than he was a year ago. The edge rushers themselves also seem to be fairly limited in terms of technique and don't seem to have much of a repertoire of inside moves to mix things up with instead of just trying to get around the outside of the tackle on most plays (Orakpo always stands out as being exceptionally shoddy in this regard but all of our OLBs are guilty to varying degrees).

Without question it's both...

1) Mike Shanahan ran through several DCs in Denver. It's likely that Haslett was the best he could do;

2) Going to the 34, meant the on board personnel didn't fit, so Mike had to start over. Early adopters of the 34 had an advantage in the draft because there was a lack of competition for personnel. But, Mike was not an early adopter so our personnel is sub-par overall.

Duplicate see 16

No Orakpo makes a huge difference. All the people wanting to trade him will see that even more as the season progresses. He opens up things for everybody else on our D.

Regardless of whether we feel we have the ability to get pressure or not, through Kerrigan or through the middle, we really need help on the other end. We ought to figure we won't get pressure and train for situations in the secondary. Because sometimes we will get pressure, and it comes naturally at this point IMO. It's the part of this 3-4 transition that's working. Nearly all attention needs to be on secondary concepts.

After watching a lot of Matt Ryan, I kind of feel like he's a guy that can get the ball smacked out of his hand from behind, although not often... he's 'mr prototype' and is keeping his eyes downfield. It's key to have the secondary keep receivers occupied while matty sits in the pocket. Matty WILL wait, and let's hope he underestimates Kerrigan, I can just see his big arm swatting around his blocker for a strip.

The CB blitz is a good play vs Matty IMO. Freakin HATE cortalnd finnegan, but st louis sealed their game with dude blitzing free. We've seen it with deangelo. This is Haslett's chance to get creative.

'cuz I think this game should be approached like the Saints game. We were an unknown, and for that particular game, we were particularly different with a lot of man defense. Not that we have to just man defense this game, but let's hope Has opens up some new, favorable, and most importantly, confusing looks for matt ryan. His stubborn ways of zone-ing guys to achieve interceptions just might work at home with everyone pumped and RG3/Alfred making things happen on offense.

BTW, another 'key' detail. People acting like Alfred Morris isn't legitimately one of the best RBs in the league. Acting like RG3's running threat doesn't make Alf even more dangerous. Actin' like this isn't going to be a HUGE task for the Falcons. Because even when running isn't the thing to do at the time, RG3 has done nothing but show he can move the team himself. So instead of US figuring we have to win the scoring parade vs the Falcons... they're rolling with their typical offense, trying to outscore an unknown, suddenly league tops-scoring offense. We're versatile. Stuff with banks, maybe we'll go lot's screens, all kinds of rollouts, maybe Griff will keep, etc. Defense has crazy blitzes (sometimes failures), but nonetheless, I feel we're a much trickier team to deal with (especially on offense), whereas the Falcons ought to be pretty predictable. I consider that: advantage: Skins.

Nice WT article about this subject up in BRBN about lack of sacks/pressure

I think a lot of it, is that D Hall is the only player in our secondary playing at a high level.

Without question it's both. Our coaching staff hasn't shown much of a propensity for creative, unpredictable playcalling which can certainly go a long way towards putting guys in position to get quick pressure. Teams have seemingly had no problem identifying and picking up blitzes from the secondary or from the ILBs when we've dialed those plays up. It also wouldn't be too far-fetched to suspect that there are certain technical elements that the staff is not addressing well on a positional basis. However, I'd have to say that when it comes strictly to getting pressure that execution by the players is probably most to blame for the difficulties we've had.

Out of our down linemen SOMEONE needs to step up their game and actually collapse the pocket every now and again to help our edge rushers out. Cofield has been pitiful in this regard and Bowen has been less consistent than he was a year ago. The edge rushers themselves also seem to be fairly limited in terms of technique and don't seem to have much of a repertoire of inside moves to mix things up with instead of just trying to get around the outside of the tackle on most plays (Orakpo always stands out as being exceptionally shoddy in this regard but all of our OLBs are guilty to varying degrees).

You pretty much summed up my feelings exactly! Don't see much fire from our big boys up front and I really don't buy into the them only being there to collapse the pocket and not to get pressure. There's a whole lot of DL's in the league getting sacks on the QB. I just don't see our guys doing anything scheme wise to create opportunities, seems pretty much straight up bull rush and outside speed rush from our OLB. That's pretty easy to pickup, for almost every IIA school in the nation. We don't have the talent to run this type of defense, ala Chicago, so Has must be smarter than the guy across the field.

---------- Post added October-5th-2012 at 06:51 AM ----------

I think a lot of it, is that D Hall is the only player in our secondary playing at a high level.

High level, that's arguable don't you think? How many times does he have get burned on double moves? How many times does V Jack's have to own him?

But, honestly, he's the best we've got and with his ball hawking nature he needs safety help over the top and we haven't had those type safeties this season.

High level, that's arguable don't you think?

I don't. Hall has been outstanding and there have been threads after every game to back that up. You're retired now, get reading.

Beating a dead horse but I'd like to see Cofield at DE...

We aren't getting pressure on the QB because everybody is going for the sack.

I don't. Hall has been outstanding and there have been threads after every game to back that up. You're retired now, get reading.

Don't believe everything you read, and this is being said by a staunch Hall supporter. I had him as my most underrated Redskin this offseason, and my posting history shows I think much more higher of him than most on this site. With that being said, when I read an article that blames Haslett and Williams for Vincent Jackson slant pattern at the goalline, after Hall allowed inside leverage, the source loses credibility in my opinion.

If you've played football, or more specifically played in the secondary, you know allowing inside leverage on the slant in that situation is a crucial mistake, and one that I'm sure Hall regrets. Making one mistake doesn't make him a bad corner by any means, but trust me when I say Hall deserved blame for the play.

Quick breakdown (from a previous FS):

Down that close to the goalline, when in cover-2 with trail technique you want your CB to damn near cheat to prevent the slant route. You either flatten the route out as Jenkins did to Fitzgerald in last nights game, or get such a good jam that prevents inside release.

The point of this is to force the QB/WR into a harder situation. A slant with inside release gives the QB a clear throwing lane, and puts Madieu in a position where he has to go through WR to get to the ball. If you take away the slant, you force the quick out/fade, which allows Hall in his trail technique to play between the QB and the WR, with Madieu on the back end to cover the pylon if they get the quick out or to make a play on the ball if it's a fade.

Essentially you're creating a much more difficult throwing lane, because Hall is in between the QB and the WR, and Madieu is on the other end. QB will either have to make a perfect bucket throw, or a high and away out, both of which are much less likely to get completed than a slant with inside leverage.

Anyways, tangent over.

I think the answer is both as well.

The loss of Orakpo is much larger than most people seem to believe in my opinion. While Rak's bullrush may not always generate the sack numbers we hoped for, it does collapse the pocket, causing the QB to either move his spot, or to throw from a spot with bodies closing around him. Furthermore our d-line rotation got hurt by the loss of Carricker. Like many others, I would also add, I think cofield should be playing 5-tech, in many situations.

As far as scheme is concerned, I'd like to see our blitzes disguised better. I'd also like to see some more stunts on obvious passing downs. But after watching some of the dominating performances put on by some d-lines (in very vanilla matter) bears dominant Romo sits to pee with front four, Rams dominating Kolb with front four and so on... I can only put so much blame on the scheme. If Haslett had the talent to generate the pressure those teams do with a 4-man rush, I don't think people would be as hard on him as they are.