'Skins to throw and throw often this year.

If you were to ask the average football fan to talk about Gibbs, most would probably say something to the effect of a ball control type offense. One that has a bruising back with solid qb play. While this is somewhat true, in two of Gibbs' superbowl wins, that was simply not the case.

When Gibbs won in '87 and '92 (record points in a season at that time), it could be argued that the offense was more of a pass first, run second offense. Doug Williams had rb Timmy Smith, certainly not a Riggo type. Rypien had Ricky Ervins and Byner. Besides Monk who was a first down machine, the receivers (Clark,Sanders) were more quick than fast and could go deep at anytime.

We all knew Gibbs would run and run often last year. He told Portis last year he better be ready to carry the load (i.e. tongue hanging out). Well, it didn't work out so well.

So this year Gibbs goes out and makes sweeping changes at the skilled positions. He brings in 2 quick wr's to go along with Portis and Cooley (our clutch receiver). He decides to utilize the shotgun to open it up more.

So what's my point? Well a lot of people are saying that we are throwing a lot this preseason to see what we have and that we will revert to more of a running game once the season starts. I disagree.

I think we are seeing what we will be doing all season long. We will see a lot of deep balls with many intermediate routes. We will see quick strikes giving the receiver an opportunity to make plays. Portis will still get his 20-25 carries a game, but it won't be predictable. It won't be run on 1st and 2nd down and then pass.

If this is the case, then the season will hinge on the development of Ramsey. While I am not convinced of his ability to run this team, he just needs to limit the mistake, get the ball into the hands of his wideouts and make an occasional great throw.

Your thoughts?

If you were to ask the average football fan to talk about Gibbs, most would probably say something to the effect of a ball control type offense. One that has a bruising back with solid qb play. While this is somewhat true, in two of Gibbs' superbowl wins, that was simply not the case.

When Gibbs won in '87 and '92 (record points in a season at that time), it could be argued that the offense was more of a pass first, run second offense. Doug Williams had rb Timmy Smith, certainly not a Riggo type. Rypien had Ricky Ervins and Byner. Besides Monk who was a first down machine, the receivers (Clark,Sanders) were more quick than fast and could go deep at anytime.

We all knew Gibbs would run and run often last year. He told Portis last year he better be ready to carry the load (i.e. tongue hanging out). Well, it didn't work out so well.

So this year Gibbs goes out and makes sweeping changes at the skilled positions. He brings in 2 quick wr's to go along with Portis and Cooley (our clutch receiver). He decides to utilize the shotgun to open it up more.

So what's my point? Well a lot of people are saying that we are throwing a lot this preseason to see what we have and that we will revert to more of a running game once the season starts. I disagree.

I think we are seeing what we will be doing all season long. We will see a lot of deep balls with many intermediate routes. We will see quick strikes giving the receiver an opportunity to make plays. Portis will still get his 20-25 carries a game, but it won't be predictable. It won't be run on 1st and 2nd down and then pass.

If this is the case, then the season will hinge on the development of Ramsey. While I am not convinced of his ability to run this team, he just needs to limit the mistake, get the ball into the hands of his wideouts and make an occasional great throw.

Your thoughts?

:applause:

Well, I'm not sure if that's right, but I can't wait to find out. It's clear we've retooled to open up the offense; the question is, which of the passing game or the running game will pull the cart. It makes sense to me right now that we've got a more definite in the running game -- Portis -- so at least early on, we'll rely on the run but use the speed on the outside to keep defenses honest.

However, as Ramsey gets more comfort and our receivers start to gel in the system, we may indeed see what you've laid out.

Regardless, we'll win the Super Bowl this year, so...

I agree that the play calling won't be predictable this year. We have WR's that can get open & get open quickly. Gibbs will be able to play a chess game this year - he has the weapons to make something happen. Ramsey just needs to get the "feel" of the game back & start playing with instincts instead of over anaylizing the game/play.

After next weeks game & a full game vs the Bears you'll start to believe in Ramsey again.

If this is the case, then the season will hinge on the development of Ramsey. While I am not convinced of his ability to run this team, he just needs to limit the mistake, get the ball into the hands of his wideouts and make an occasional great throw.

Head meet nail, nail head. All of the other pieces seem to be there.

O-line? Check

Field stretching receivers? Check

Dangerous backs? Check

Stingy defense? Check

Solid kicking game? Check

Solid coverage and return teams? We'll see

A qb that meets the above stated standard? That's the hope and the big question mark

with moss and patten.... defenses wont be able to stack the line anymore.

I think I can agree with you skinsfan93.

Despite all the question marks about Ramsey, I don't think we can have it both ways. Either he is capable of running an offense that passes frequently(which he showed before he broke his foot in 2003) or he isn't. If he throws for 3500 yards and 20+ TDs and posts an 80s-100 QB rating it won't be as a 'caretaker' or 'don't lose the game' QB.

I think Ramsey is actually BETTER in an offense that isn't run first. By minimizing his throws, I think the ability is there(as with many QBs) to have that one mistake be a killer. With more throws, the warmth and rhythm can be developed in a game, and if the team needs to put the opponent away with one more score or needs a lead change to happen late in the game--I think Ramsey will be better with more 'reps' via dropback in-game.

There will be exceptions, of course, games where there are so many big plays and points where Ramsey will only need to hand off and pitch to Cooley and Portis a few times. At least, I hope there are games like that.

I've watched a LOT of old Gibbs first era games in the past year, probably more than anyone in America And I'll tell you something that really surprised me...

Somewhere along the way, as the glory days of the Gibbs years faded in the rearview mirror, my memories of Gibbs changed. In my newly-disillusioned mind, tortured and tormented successively by Petitbon, Turner, Robiskie, Shottenheimer, and Spurrier, Joe Gibbs became a conservative, run-oriented, pound it down your throat and make no mistakes coach.

Watching the games again, I was amazed. This guy wasn't conservative. He wasn't risk-averse. His offense thrived on...gasp...multiple receiver sets, movement, deception, and often, the deep passing game. He had the offensive line to protect his QB, he always had just enough of a running game to make it a viable threat, and he always had a QB in there that could heave that ball great distances.

I believe we'll run it more often than not this year. But I also remember the real Joe Gibbs, not the one I manufactured in my 43 year old mind. The guy who'd call a deep passing play on 1st down, fake the FG on 4th and short, or roll the QB out on 4th and inches on the goalline. I believe he's still daring. I believe he still gets his greatest thrill out of discovering an opponent's tendencies/flaws/weaknesses, and luring them into exposing it.

And this year, he's got the weapons to make them pay.

Head meet nail, nail head. All of the other pieces seem to be there.

O-line? Check

Field stretching receivers? Check

Dangerous backs? Check

Stingy defense? Check

Solid kicking game? Check

Solid coverage and return teams? We'll see

A qb that meets the above stated standard? That's the hope and the big question mark

The QB position has been the question mark all season. We will make the playoffs and advance only if the QB position plays well, assuming of course we stay relatively healthy. I think all the other pieces are there. I do think Ramsey is going to do well this year, however, he still has to prove that he can. So far, we have not played a regular season game. I think his true test is in the second game against the pukes.

Several of the formations and a few of the plays from them this preseason have looked strangely familiar. Thinking that with Patten and Moss, there could be some fun times ahead.

If you were to ask the average football fan to talk about Gibbs, most would probably say something to the effect of a ball control type offense. One that has a bruising back with solid qb play. While this is somewhat true, in two of Gibbs' superbowl wins, that was simply not the case.

When Gibbs won in '87 and '92 (record points in a season at that time), it could be argued that the offense was more of a pass first, run second offense. Doug Williams had rb Timmy Smith, certainly not a Riggo type. Rypien had Ricky Ervins and Byner. Besides Monk who was a first down machine, the receivers (Clark,Sanders) were more quick than fast and could go deep at anytime.

We all knew Gibbs would run and run often last year. He told Portis last year he better be ready to carry the load (i.e. tongue hanging out). Well, it didn't work out so well.

So this year Gibbs goes out and makes sweeping changes at the skilled positions. He brings in 2 quick wr's to go along with Portis and Cooley (our clutch receiver). He decides to utilize the shotgun to open it up more.

So what's my point? Well a lot of people are saying that we are throwing a lot this preseason to see what we have and that we will revert to more of a running game once the season starts. I disagree.

I think we are seeing what we will be doing all season long. We will see a lot of deep balls with many intermediate routes. We will see quick strikes giving the receiver an opportunity to make plays. Portis will still get his 20-25 carries a game, but it won't be predictable. It won't be run on 1st and 2nd down and then pass.

If this is the case, then the season will hinge on the development of Ramsey. While I am not convinced of his ability to run this team, he just needs to limit the mistake, get the ball into the hands of his wideouts and make an occasional great throw.

Your thoughts?

I hope your right. Until I read the ES article on Redskins.com I had no idea we had the second most offensive yards in Preseason, I think we have the staff to get it done through the air a hell of a lot more then we did last year. It does, however rest pretty heavily on Ramsey, since the Line if obviously up to it and I think our WRs are too. I think Ramsey can do it. He needs to get his long ball timing down and stop the underthrows. He needs to learn from the mistakes in the preseason thus far, but I think he has the physcial ability to get the offense going. He also didnt crumble after that early pic in the Steelers game last week.

And we dont have put up a ton of points either. If we average 17-20 a game, with our defense, we will be a playoff team. Could be a very good season

I've watched a LOT of old Gibbs first era games in the past year, probably more than anyone in America

:laugh:

I believe we'll run it more often than not this year. But I also remember the real Joe Gibbs, not the one I manufactured in my 43 year old mind. The guy who'd call a deep passing play on 1st down, fake the FG on 4th and short, or roll the QB out on 4th and inches on the goalline. I believe he's still daring. I believe he still gets his greatest thrill out of discovering an opponent's tendencies/flaws/weaknesses, and luring them into exposing it.

And this year, he's got the weapons to make them pay.

Rope-A-Dope baby. Rope-A-Dope.

I've watched a LOT of old Gibbs first era games in the past year, probably more than anyone in America And I'll tell you something that really surprised me...

Somewhere along the way, as the glory days of the Gibbs years faded in the rearview mirror, my memories of Gibbs changed. In my newly-disillusioned mind, tortured and tormented successively by Petitbon, Turner, Robiskie, Shottenheimer, and Spurrier, Joe Gibbs became a conservative, run-oriented, pound it down your throat and make no mistakes coach.

Watching the games again, I was amazed. This guy wasn't conservative. He wasn't risk-averse. His offense thrived on...gasp...multiple receiver sets, movement, deception, and often, the deep passing game. He had the offensive line to protect his QB, he always had just enough of a running game to make it a viable threat, and he always had a QB in there that could heave that ball great distances.

I believe we'll run it more often than not this year. But I also remember the real Joe Gibbs, not the one I manufactured in my 43 year old mind. The guy who'd call a deep passing play on 1st down, fake the FG on 4th and short, or roll the QB out on 4th and inches on the goalline. I believe he's still daring. I believe he still gets his greatest thrill out of discovering an opponent's tendencies/flaws/weaknesses, and luring them into exposing it.

And this year, he's got the weapons to make them pay.

I agree 100%, but I think you will see a balance this year. I remember when we had an off year and Gibbs would say he needs to get back to balance and running the ball because his team passed too much. However, he passed the ball a lot back then, especially in 1991. When the skins got ahead Gibbs liked to grind it out and eat up the clock to close out the game.

I've watched a LOT of old Gibbs first era games in the past year, probably more than anyone in America And I'll tell you something that really surprised me...

Somewhere along the way, as the glory days of the Gibbs years faded in the rearview mirror, my memories of Gibbs changed. In my newly-disillusioned mind, tortured and tormented successively by Petitbon, Turner, Robiskie, Shottenheimer, and Spurrier, Joe Gibbs became a conservative, run-oriented, pound it down your throat and make no mistakes coach.

Watching the games again, I was amazed. This guy wasn't conservative. He wasn't risk-averse. His offense thrived on...gasp...multiple receiver sets, movement, deception, and often, the deep passing game. He had the offensive line to protect his QB, he always had just enough of a running game to make it a viable threat, and he always had a QB in there that could heave that ball great distances.

I believe we'll run it more often than not this year. But I also remember the real Joe Gibbs, not the one I manufactured in my 43 year old mind. The guy who'd call a deep passing play on 1st down, fake the FG on 4th and short, or roll the QB out on 4th and inches on the goalline. I believe he's still daring. I believe he still gets his greatest thrill out of discovering an opponent's tendencies/flaws/weaknesses, and luring them into exposing it.

And this year, he's got the weapons to make them pay.

Well said. I remember those roll outs

However, part of those memories will hold true. If and when the Redskins get a commanding lead, expect that the victims will get a heavy dose of our running game.

To that end, did you notice the time of possession in the Steeler's game? I'm REALLY hoping that's a sign of things to come. Imagine our backs slashing through a weakend defense in the 4th quarter. Ahhhhh.....good times are coming.

I agree 100%, but I think you will see a balance this year. I remember when we had an off year and Gibbs would say he needs to get back to balance and running the ball because his team passed too much. However, he passed the ball a lot back then, especially in 1991. When the skins got ahead Gibbs liked to grind it out and eat up the clock to close out the game.

You're absolutely right that Gibbs did run the ball once we got the lead, sometimes a little too much for my comfort. I remember games where we allowed the other team to come back because Gibbs was a little too conservative.

But I think he realizes that today's NFL, no lead is safe. He is always talking about how defenses are different today than in the past...more blitzing, more risk taking, etc.

I'm sure we're not going to throw ala St. Louis, but I think we will absolutely open it up this year.

Watching the games again, I was amazed. This guy wasn't conservative. He wasn't risk-averse. His offense thrived on...gasp...multiple receiver sets, movement, deception, and often, the deep passing game. He had the offensive line to protect his QB, he always had just enough of a running game to make it a viable threat, and he always had a QB in there that could heave that ball great distances.

I believe we'll run it more often than not this year. But I also remember the real Joe Gibbs, not the one I manufactured in my 43 year old mind. The guy who'd call a deep passing play on 1st down, fake the FG on 4th and short, or roll the QB out on 4th and inches on the goalline. I believe he's still daring. I believe he still gets his greatest thrill out of discovering an opponent's tendencies/flaws/weaknesses, and luring them into exposing it.

And this year, he's got the weapons to make them pay.

Good points, Gibbs is an agressive play caller and conservative when he HAS to be. I have an old book written in '82 that has ideas and such from Bill Walsh, Sid Gillman and Gibbs ....and this is Joe Gibbs' thought on the passing game and multiple recievers

You start with the ambition of avoiding the two things that kill off the passing game: the sack and the interception.

One way to accomplish that is to place your receivers all over the field and have a quarterback with a quick release so well instructed in reading defenses that he always throws into the thinnest part of the coverage. Every pass play should have a built-in BIG play. Why settle for a twelve yard gain if there is a fifty-yard gain possible? Multiple receivers give you the flexibility to go for broke every play

Aggressive play calling is what Gibbs is, IF he has the QB to run it!!....which sorta explains why he went after Brunell, being Brunell did fit that description of having the ability to read defenses and having a quick release, and also having WR's that can spread defenses with speed.

If you were to ask the average football fan to talk about Gibbs, most would probably say something to the effect of a ball control type offense. One that has a bruising back with solid qb play. While this is somewhat true, in two of Gibbs' superbowl wins, that was simply not the case.

When Gibbs won in '87 and '92 (record points in a season at that time), it could be argued that the offense was more of a pass first, run second offense. Doug Williams had rb Timmy Smith, certainly not a Riggo type. Rypien had Ricky Ervins and Byner. Besides Monk who was a first down machine, the receivers (Clark,Sanders) were more quick than fast and could go deep at anytime.

We all knew Gibbs would run and run often last year. He told Portis last year he better be ready to carry the load (i.e. tongue hanging out). Well, it didn't work out so well.

So this year Gibbs goes out and makes sweeping changes at the skilled positions. He brings in 2 quick wr's to go along with Portis and Cooley (our clutch receiver). He decides to utilize the shotgun to open it up more.

So what's my point? Well a lot of people are saying that we are throwing a lot this preseason to see what we have and that we will revert to more of a running game once the season starts. I disagree.

I think we are seeing what we will be doing all season long. We will see a lot of deep balls with many intermediate routes. We will see quick strikes giving the receiver an opportunity to make plays. Portis will still get his 20-25 carries a game, but it won't be predictable. It won't be run on 1st and 2nd down and then pass.

If this is the case, then the season will hinge on the development of Ramsey. While I am not convinced of his ability to run this team, he just needs to limit the mistake, get the ball into the hands of his wideouts and make an occasional great throw.

Your thoughts?

I agree...Ramsey reminds me of a mix between Rypien and Scheoder. I remeber Jay S loved to just chuck the ball down the field whenever he could, but he wasnt very accurate because of it. Rypien on the other hand was an extremly accurate deep ball thrower. Hopefully Ramsey can be MORE like Rypien and less like Scroeder

I agree...Ramsey reminds me of a mix between Rypien and Scheoder. I remeber Jay S loved to just chuck the ball down the field whenever he could, but he wasnt very accurate because of it. Rypien on the other hand was an extremly accurate deep ball thrower. Hopefully Ramsey can be MORE like Rypien and less like Scroeder

He was accurate enough to throw for 4000+ yards and 22 TDs in 1986 and get us to the NFC Championship

I'd sure as hell take that about now.....

I would love to see Portis with 100 receptions

I would love to see Portis with 100 receptions

If Portis catches that many passes, that means Ramsey is checking down quite too often which means we aren't throwing downfield. I would like to see him with 40+ catches.

I think what we saw in the Steelers game was what we will see, roughly, in the regular season. Against the steelers, despite them being a great run-stopping team, we ran the ball on first down I think for every play but one in the first half. We ran it down their throats time after time after time, and when it was expected that we run it on first down - backed up near our endzone in the second quarter - we passed it on first down for a solid completion.

I think we will see a lot of "conservative" running again. We will be a run-based team, a clock-killing team, (notice how we had roughly 2/3 of the possession against Pitt) and a team that will run effectively and then beat you on the deep passing plays. And add that to a super-explosive home run threat in Portis, and we've got ourselves a "conservative" offense that can make big plays happen in a flash.

I don't think we're going to be a gung-ho team or throw really a lot downfield, as Ramsey throwing is more likely to cost us turnovers than Portis running, and turnovers could be the end of us. But I do think we'll run the ball much better (I wouldn't be surprised to see Portis gain about a yard per carry more than last year), have much more deep passing plays, and have plays where our receivers get seperation and get good yardage after the catch.

And I think our touchdown ratio will increase on special teams.

I know it seems unlikely, but I just can't see us really faltering as a team this season. I can't really anticipate one aspect in which we are absolutely horrible, or one area that will hold us back from being a successful team. I can't envision us making the playoffs, but I can't envision us sucking either. Oi Redskins.

He was accurate enough to throw for 4000+ yards and 22 TDs in 1986 and get us to the NFC Championship

I'd sure as hell take that about now.....

Id love if Ramsey threw for 4000 yards, that would be great, but didnt Schoeder complete just over 50 percent of his passes while Rypien was near 60 percent?

Going to be an exciting year

If you're old enough, you might remember that the primary reason we brought Gibbs in was his aggressive, imaginative playcalling. His basic philosophy is a few plays that can be run from many formations, shifting to alter the point of attack and excellent execution. If you execute and have plays you know will work, you can be very aggressive and try for the killshot. Knowing that he could pick up first downs on third and longs led him to go for the big play on first and second while having faith in his defense encouraged him to take risks. Most importantly his confidence in assessing the situation, his players doing what he asked and the game reps they got with those plays, often made those aggressive plays as high a percentage as the more 'high-percentage' type plays. Gibbs did not like the wimpy pass plays made famous by Walsh though he had no problem adopting whatever works. I do remember the tv guys often commenting that Washington actually had its biggest problems against bend-don't break type defenses. For instance, we'd either break cover-2 teams defenses with a good running game which would allow us to hit the big play or we had to hope that our defense and special teams could win the day.

Actually I think they are throwing it more in preseason to get in sync with longer passing plays. I imagine Gibb's will emphasize what we'll do best and I think that will be our running game.

A deep threat should help the running game. The areas we look strong is the offensive line and the running backs. It makes sense that we'd base the offense around that instead of our weak points which is our passing game and quarterback.