kingchris626 Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 there is no question here. Coles doesnt have the size to compete with TO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
citigent Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 even with out burgandy and gold glasses on you have to take coles. if you lokk at t.o at the same point in his carrer that coles is at now, coles is better . not to metion that coles has great character and t.o. doesn't, so when it comes to not only their personal play i would think you would want coles to help your other recievers with thier games an outlook on the game......when t.o deosn't catch enough balls in a game what does he do?, he blames the qb, in contrast what does coles do?, he says he needs to do more to become a better target for his qb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 Originally posted by dissonance19 I think ppl go waaaaaaaaay overboard with TO's character especially likening to a "cancer." I bet it's not as bad as the media or fans blows it up to be. It's just story to write about. I mean the 49ers were gonna lose whether TO was happy or not. Coles is a good player but I'd take TO. No if and's or buts. I live in Sacramento, which is basically 49er(or Raider) country, and believe me, no one is going overboard when it comes to TO characters. He IS the blowhard he has been made out to be, at least up to this year. He seems happy to be in Philly and I am sure as long as everything goes to HIS PERSONAL PLAN, he will be just fine, but I am telling you, that first McNabb rush for 3 yards, that Owen thought he was wide open on, is going to result in an argument, and after that, who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kappaluvacee Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 to ask who's better is too difficult. They both bring valuable qualities to the table. I would choose LC because he will help make the players around him better. TO learned from the great Jerry Rice who he credits for a lot of his development; but he has yet to return the favor to any of his teammates. LC is a team guy, TO is more of the LEON type. Both are playmakers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golgo-13 Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 Originally posted by Funkyalligator Randy Moss is a better receiver than either....I hate to say it but he is a freak...size like Owens and speed like Coles....he will end up being the best ever...... ...and the brain of a cricket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins26 Posted May 5, 2004 Author Share Posted May 5, 2004 I think ppl go waaaaaaaaay overboard with TO's character especially likening to a "cancer." I bet it's not as bad as the media or fans blows it up to be. It's just story to write about. I mean the 49ers were gonna lose whether TO was happy or not. I disagree, I think his character is even worse than the media makes it out to be. The media cant make up that sideline explosion we all saw last year. He's always whining. He always knocked on Jeff Garcia. I saw him on the best damn sports show say that football wasnt even very high on his priority list, he really didnt care about it all that much. It was behind like basketball and stuff. He's a complete freak who will rip a team apart, its not just one occurance its every year, the guy has problems. BTW- Moss is better than both, he is a freak, but he's also a team cancer. However we are just comparing TO and Coles b/c they are both in the division now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpgirth Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 TO is the better receiver, by a hair. I am just glad he is not on our team. Everyone remembers the outburst with the o-coordinater. He has zero class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sjinhan Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 are the people who are voting for coles... voting on coles' potential or on his actual accomplishments... i think its a no brainer that TO is the better of the two at the current moment... some of you guys try to make an arguement that Coles is better because he is better for the team... the term "better for the team" usually means that the player helps the team win right? how many games can you positively say that Coles was the the reason the Jets/Redskins won and how many games can you say that about TO with the 49ers... TO has much greater impact on the game... umm also for those who questions TO's attitude on the team... umm other than Garcia, and i guess Marruchi (lol i cant spell) who else had trouble with TO in the locker room and as a teammate? can anyone tell me? I am not a fan of TO at all but how much of this "cancer" thing from the media and the fans? TO started to have problems with Steve Mararuchi (lol again my spelling maybe this is the correct one) i believe because TO felt like the coach betrayed him when Steve called behind TO's back to apologize for TO's antics to the opposing team... which in some ways i can see TO's side of things... as a player even when i might have made a mistake, i would be hurt if the coach left me out to dry... for example lets say back in the day Riggins was running wild against the Cowboys and was taunting along the way... would you be happy with Gibbs, if Gibbs were to call up the Cowboys and apologize for the game? and wouldnt Gibbs be just undermining himself if he were to do that? The problem with Garcia is questionable also because TO was questioning Garcia's ability to get the job done right? so i guess the question is how much should you wait and standby if you think your teammate is not getting the job done... true that TO didnt take the most mature approach but being not mature and being a "cancer to the team" is little different IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da_Truth Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 I think Gardner could be another T.O. He has the size and good speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpgirth Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 Originally posted by sjinhan are the people who are voting for coles... voting on coles' potential or on his actual accomplishments... i think its a no brainer that TO is the better of the two at the current moment... some of you guys try to make an arguement that Coles is better because he is better for the team... the term "better for the team" usually means that the player helps the team win right? how many games can you positively say that Coles was the the reason the Jets/Redskins won and how many games can you say that about TO with the 49ers... TO has much greater impact on the game... umm also for those who questions TO's attitude on the team... umm other than Garcia, and i guess Marruchi (lol i cant spell) who else had trouble with TO in the locker room and as a teammate? can anyone tell me? I am not a fan of TO at all but how much of this "cancer" thing from the media and the fans? TO started to have problems with Steve Mararuchi (lol again my spelling maybe this is the correct one) i believe because TO felt like the coach betrayed him when Steve called behind TO's back to apologize for TO's antics to the opposing team... which in some ways i can see TO's side of things... as a player even when i might have made a mistake, i would be hurt if the coach left me out to dry... for example lets say back in the day Riggins was running wild against the Cowboys and was taunting along the way... would you be happy with Gibbs, if Gibbs were to call up the Cowboys and apologize for the game? and wouldnt Gibbs be just undermining himself if he were to do that? The problem with Garcia is questionable also because TO was questioning Garcia's ability to get the job done right? so i guess the question is how much should you wait and standby if you think your teammate is not getting the job done... true that TO didnt take the most mature approach but being not mature and being a "cancer to the team" is little different IMHO Don't bring TO and Gibbs into the same post. It disgusts me. I was hoping that the offensive co TO went off on wasn't Greg Knapp. I was wishing for Terry Robiskie. He would have kicked TO's ass. The same way he grabbed Albert Connell. TO isn't a media creation, he is a TO original. No class. Gibbs wouldn't even have explored the oppurtunity to sign TO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenF Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 Coles isn't in the same league as Owens, in terms of skill and capabilities. Owens manhandles CBs -- look what he's done to Champ Bailey and Aeneas Williams, two of the best CBs in the NFL. Last year, Owens almost single-handedly won half the 49rs games -- he is a major force in the NFL, there's no doubt about that. That said, you can't take skill and capabilities alone. When it comes to attitude, Owens is bringing up the rear. When your attitude sucks, you are going to hurt the team in other ways, as obvious last year in San Francisco. Owens abilities - attitude that hurts his team Coles abilities + attitude that helps his team That considered, I would still give the edge to Owens, but just barely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 Owens drops way too many balls, can lose focus in a game, and be a distraction to the team. Coles has more speed, better hands, and a better attitude, Coles will block downfield TO is stronger and bigger Equal on getting extra yards Coles is the winner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurent Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 Originally posted by phanatic Coles has always played in a vertical system. Conversely, T.O. has been in a WCO his whole career. Coles had his best season as a Jet in the WCO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NACSkins Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 I personally think its his total lack of "Team" that causes the headlines and stories. So saying that I would have to go with yes, No doubt he is talented but his total disreguard for the "work as a team" mantra will always cause problems on and off the field. Football is one of the professional sports that the team theme (like the rhyme?) is probably one of the most singular important aspects. We all have seen many times when the players on the field (no matter how good they are) don't play as a team, don't succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 Originally posted by GB81 I'm sorry, but anyone who says Coles is better than Owens is just a ridiculous homer. While yes, Coles numbers for his first 4 years are at least arguably better than Owen's (Coles: 242 rec., 3906 yards, TO: 222 rec., 3307 yards), Owens had 30 TDs in his first 4 seasons to Coles' 13 TDs. Owens is one of the best 4 WR's in the league--in the top tier with Moss, Harrison and Holt. Coles is one of the better receivers in the second tier. Coles is clearly a better team guy, but anyone who thinks he is a better WR than Owens has his head in the sand. Not only are Coles' numbers better over the first four years of his career, GB, but, Coles has shown the ability to be a No. 1 receiver already where Owens didn't really emerge as that until his fifth year. Owens then emerged as an elite player, not merely a No. 1 receiver and Coles has not had that sort of season to this point. I think that ability and possibility is why I'd take Owens today over Coles. But, I find it entirely plausible that Owens has 80 catches for 1,100 yards and 12 TDs this year for another fine season if one that eases him out of the elite level, and I think Coles, if healthy in a typical Gibbs passing attack, could go for 100 catches for 1,400 yards and 8 TDs or so, entering the elite level. While I can't say I know whether that will happen or not, I can say if it does, would that put your head in the sand? When measuring as of this moment I still give the edge to Owens. But, you can see a situation in which Coles surpasses him as a receiver this year and into the future and enters the elite level of receiver. Of course, he may just be a very good receiver and never quite attain that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funbuncher Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 TO is a perfect WCO WR while Coles is custom built for an Air Coryell type O like we will run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conrad87 Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 Originally posted by GB81 I'm sorry, but anyone who says Coles is better than Owens is just a ridiculous homer. While yes, Coles numbers for his first 4 years are at least arguably better than Owen's (Coles: 242 rec., 3906 yards, TO: 222 rec., 3307 yards), Owens had 30 TDs in his first 4 seasons to Coles' 13 TDs. Owens is one of the best 4 WR's in the league--in the top tier with Moss, Harrison and Holt. Coles is one of the better receivers in the second tier. Coles is clearly a better team guy, but anyone who thinks he is a better WR than Owens has his head in the sand. I was thinking the exact same thing....but you said it better;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nace14 Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 i think that by definition "better for the team" implies a better player. so even if you make the claim that to is a better player but coles is a better team player, i think that raises coles above TO (can anyone follow my logic here?) it's kind of like the tom brady arguement: he's not the most talented qb in the league, but right now he is the best qb because he plays his position for the good of the team. as much as i hate brady (and believe me the deep seeding hatred and loathing i have for all of new england sports is exemplified in the name tom brady) i would still love him to be my qb. so to make my point, i go with coles, besides when was the last time to chased down a cb after an int and caused a turnover when a touchdown was apparent instead of standing there with his hands on his hips yelling at garcia? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poidog22 Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 Originally posted by dannyboy70 If the question is: "who's better?" I'd say Owens. If the question is: "who's better for your team?" than I'd have to say Coles. Perfect assesment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 I'm fine with Coles. He's been all that we hoped for and more. But Owens is a better player. He's had better stats, has been the focal point of better offenses and has maintained his level of play longer. Coles may someday be a better WR. Maybe someday soon. But today it's Owens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smashmowf Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 Just judging them as receivers....Owens is better. Who would I want on my team?....Coles. Would I trade Coles for Owens..No. Owens' physical attributes are just stronger than Coles, rememeber in 2001 when T.O. reversed field on us broke about 10 tackles on his way to like a 60 yard touchdown...the guy is a monster with the ball in his hands unfortunately his talent does not out weigh his attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB81 Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 The fact that Coles is winning this poll by a significant margin is a really damning indictment of the general football knowledge and/or homerism on this site. Laveranues Coles is very good and has the potential to be great. He is not Terrell Owens. The question was, "who is better?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nace14 Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 Originally posted by GB81 The fact that Coles is winning this poll by a significant margin is a really damning indictment of the general football knowledge and/or homerism on this site. Laveranues Coles is very good and has the potential to be great. He is not Terrell Owens. The question was, "who is better?" the problem i have with that statement is that all of TO's attributes make him a better ATHLETE not a better FOOTBALL PLAYER. saying that TO is better because he is bigger, jumps higher, and pushes off better to get seperation doesn't make him the better football player. coles has not put up the numbers TO has. that is a fact, you can't argue that. but when it comes to who is the better football player you have to take into consideration way more than just numbers. TO has been dominant over the past 3 years or so physically and individually, but he doesn't bring his talents though to his teamates, instead he hinders his teamates existing talents, and that alone negates him from being a better football player than coles. and fact of the matter is that every great football player had that ability to better his players around him. TO does not have that. Coles has shown signs of it. skins were 5-11 last year with coles, since that's the team we are most familiar with here, lets use them as an example: if we had TO instead of coles do you think we would have won 5 games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB81 Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 So, we are not using numbers or ability to determine who's better? TO is faster, bigger, stronger, almost definitely a better blocker. He has significantly better career numbers and significantly more pro bowls. What does it take? Is Coles better than Randy Moss? What if Coles was really super nice for a few seasons--gave to charity, was really nice to old people, children and dogs...would that make him a better career receiver than Jerry Rice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nace14 Posted May 5, 2004 Share Posted May 5, 2004 Originally posted by GB81 So, we are not using numbers or ability to determine who's better? TO is faster, bigger, stronger, almost definitely a better blocker. He has significantly better career numbers and significantly more pro bowls. What does it take? Is Coles better than Randy Moss? What if Coles was really super nice for a few seasons--gave to charity, was really nice to old people, children and dogs...would that make him a better career receiver than Jerry Rice? faster bigger and stronger does not make somebody a better football player. if you go by career numbers fine, just make sure you go by career years too when you notice a difference. you are refussing to look at how a player effects his team. there is a lot more to the game than being athletic. by your rational, TO is better than Rice because he is bigger stronger faster and a better blocker...do you notice how the intangables make a difference now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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