McNabbOwnsFedEx Posted May 7, 2004 Share Posted May 7, 2004 Steve Smith didn't just have a great playoff run, he had a great season last year. Carolina started throwing more during the 2nd half of the season and Smith benefitted. He's a great player and I think he's going to be a top 5 WR next season. Just my opinion. You can question Santana Moss, but he only started 12 games last season and had 1,105 yards and 10 TD's. He and Pennington are going to be a very good duo for a long time in the NFL. I also like the fact that he scored 10 touchdowns, which Coles has never done in his career. Coles versus Johnson, average of last three years:Coles: 77 catches, 1,112 yards, 6 TDs Johnson: 62 catches, 950 yards, 5 TDs Again, before you draw any conclusions, let Chad Johnson show us another year. Currently, Coles is better. Chad was injured his first year in the league and didn't play in a lot of games. But, here's their first three years compared: Chad's first 3 years: 187 catches, 2,850 yards, and 16 td's Coles' first 3 years: 170 catches, 2,502 yards, and 13 td's He has had two great years and Coles has had two great years. They both had below average rookie years because they didn't see the field a lot. Chad has had as many great years as Coles has so far though. You seem to be taking this as sort of a bad thing towards Coles, not at all. I think Coles is a very good receiver, but I also think these guys are as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted May 7, 2004 Share Posted May 7, 2004 Originally posted by Blazers21 KDawg, I think if you paid attention a little bit more, you'd know that Flowtrain is a Jets fan. Eagles fans (nor most others) haven't "ripped" Coles or his supporters. For the most part, this has been a rational discussion about the two players pros and cons. Personally, for the offense the Eagles run and Owen's familiarity and tremendous success in it, I'd take him over Coles for the Eagles in a NY minute, so to speak. Both excel at their positions. Owens has more experience and has shown greater results because of that and other factors. Coles is younger and will produce outstanding numbers for the near future. Those who "hate" good players aren't very good football fans. :2cents: That's fine and dandy, but I wasn't referring to Flowtrain. I know that Flowtrain is a Jets fan... However is McNabbownsFedEx a Jets fan as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagles_Legendz Posted May 7, 2004 Share Posted May 7, 2004 Originally posted by McNabbOwnsFedEx You seem to be taking this as sort of a bad thing towards Coles, not at all. I think Coles is a very good receiver, but I also think these guys are as well. KDawg, Read this response. I don't think anyone is taking away anything from Coles. I hardly think EVERY Eagles fan here is. There may be some difference in opinion about whether Coles is better than CJ or S. Smith etc., but no one is bashing him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDane Posted May 7, 2004 Share Posted May 7, 2004 Originally posted by McNabbOwnsFedEx Steve Smith didn't just have a great playoff run, he had a great season last year. Carolina started throwing more during the 2nd half of the season and Smith benefitted. He's a great player and I think he's going to be a top 5 WR next season. Just my opinion. You can question Santana Moss, but he only started 12 games last season and had 1,105 yards and 10 TD's. He and Pennington are going to be a very good duo for a long time in the NFL. I also like the fact that he scored 10 touchdowns, which Coles has never done in his career. These are opinions, after all, and we differ. I need two more seasons of consistency from Moss before he's in Coles' league. Smith had a good year last year (88 catches, 1,110 yards, 7 TDs), but not an excellent one, and had fewer yards than Coles. His playoff run was fantastic. Strictly on a stats basis, he is below Coles for a first three-year average, as you referred to with Johnson. Originally posted by McNabbOwnsFedEx Chad was injured his first year in the league and didn't play in a lot of games. But, here's their first three years compared: Chad's first 3 years: 187 catches, 2,850 yards, and 16 td's Coles' first 3 years: 170 catches, 2,502 yards, and 13 td's He has had two great years and Coles has had two great years. They both had below average rookie years because they didn't see the field a lot. Chad has had as many great years as Coles has so far though. Again, opinion. This is also a prime example of how the same set of statistics can prove both individuals' points. I'm not bad-mouthing Johnson either, but I'd like to see him string together two 1,200 yard seasons in a row before ranking him above Coles. Like I said, if Johnson has a blowout season again, I'll be prepared to eat my words and you can reference this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McNabb2Owens2k4 Posted May 7, 2004 Share Posted May 7, 2004 Chad Johnson, just like TO, is a much better WR than Coles. The guy had a breakout season, last year, and put up better numbers than Coles ever has. Does he gotta do it for 6 years, before you consider him better? Seriously you Skins fans are blinded by maroon and yellow. If you look at Coles stats, he comes up small in the TD catagory, and no stat is bigger than that. His career high is 7 tds for a season,(with the Jets) and that production has been matched by Todd Pinkston. Bottom line is, he's not as great as you think he is, there are others who are just flat out better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpgirth Posted May 7, 2004 Share Posted May 7, 2004 Originally posted by McNabb2Owens2k4 Chad Johnson, just like TO, is a much better WR than Coles. The guy had a breakout season, last year, and put up better numbers than Coles ever has. Does he gotta do it for 6 years, before you consider him better? Seriously you Skins fans are blinded by maroon and yellow. If you look at Coles stats, he comes up small in the TD catagory, and no stat is bigger than that. His career high is 7 tds for a season,(with the Jets) and that production has been matched by Todd Pinkston. Bottom line is, he's not as great as you think he is, there are others who are just flat out better. I'll agree that TO now is the better physical receiver. I'll vote that Coles is the better receiver overall. This includes being part of a team. I wouldn't want TO on my squad. This is a team sport. For my team the way it stands now, I don't need or want a selfish player. You can drum up every excuse for why TO acts the way he does (wants to win). He is one of unclassiest PROFESSIONALS I have ever seen. He doesn't respect himself or his team. San Fran couldn't wait to dump him, not even attempting to sign him. Only two teams out of 32 offered anything. His inmaturity will shine soon enough. TO is a head case. I'll keep Coles. He will do what's best for the team. I do like Chad Johnson and put him on par with Coles. Moss is the best but would rather have Harrison. Trust the skins fans we know about selfish players for the last 10yrs. Don't insult everyone's intelligence with Todd Stinkston.:laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDane Posted May 7, 2004 Share Posted May 7, 2004 Originally posted by McNabb2Owens2k4 Chad Johnson, just like TO, is a much better WR than Coles. The guy had a breakout season, last year, and put up better numbers than Coles ever has. Does he gotta do it for 6 years, before you consider him better? Seriously you Skins fans are blinded by maroon and yellow. If you look at Coles stats, he comes up small in the TD catagory, and no stat is bigger than that. His career high is 7 tds for a season,(with the Jets) and that production has been matched by Todd Pinkston. Bottom line is, he's not as great as you think he is, there are others who are just flat out better. Flat out wrong. I said two years, not six. Feel free to double check my work. Don't misconstrue my words. If you are comparing Laveranues Coles to Todd Pinkston, you are clearly suffering from an even more severe case of glaucoma. And by the way, it's burgundy and gold. If you're going to flame, at least do it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halter91 Posted May 7, 2004 Share Posted May 7, 2004 I would definately say that Coles is not as "gifted", but he is smarter and hasn't had a good QB to help him. I would take Coles any day over TO or Moss, because of attitude alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RW31 Posted May 7, 2004 Share Posted May 7, 2004 ...None of these recievers hold a candle to harrison anyways... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDSKNfaithfull Posted May 7, 2004 Share Posted May 7, 2004 Most of us would rather have Coles including my self, but the FACT is T.O. is better he is elite where as Coles is on his way but not there yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebreaker Posted May 8, 2004 Share Posted May 8, 2004 Originally posted by RW31 ...None of these recievers hold a candle to harrison anyways... No doubt. Harrison is my favorite reciever all-time behind Gary Clark. Not only is he a model team player, but he outproduces every single reciever in the league. Definitely the best playing right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da_Truth Posted May 8, 2004 Share Posted May 8, 2004 Coles reminds me of a quicker Marvin Harrison and Coles is an ELITE WR already. Just wait until hes put in a good system, GIBBS!!!!!, THEN you guys will see. He hardly played in the pro bowl yet he came in second in yards and TY Law was covering him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RW31 Posted May 8, 2004 Share Posted May 8, 2004 Originally posted by Gibbs_Rulez Coles reminds me of a quicker Marvin Harrison and Coles is an ELITE WR already. Just wait until hes put in a good system, GIBBS!!!!!, THEN you guys will see. He hardly played in the pro bowl yet he came in second in yards and TY Law was covering him. Elite? He is defiantely behind the big three(harrison, moss, owens) torry holt and probably behind anquan boldin and chad johnson, and in a battle with steve smith, santana moss and chris chambers, these are off the top of my head... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3DaysLatr Posted May 8, 2004 Share Posted May 8, 2004 Owens is about to get off this season. He's going to be huge. At first I thought big deal, just another reciever for Mcnabb to hit off stride but then I realized something. The WCO is predicated on getting the ball to your best playmaker as fast as possible no matter where that player lines up. The biggest problem for Reid and company has been that no other player has ever been even remotely close to on par with McNabb as that playmaker for them. That just changed, if Mcnabb can acurately deliver the ball to Owens in stride on slants, screens, out and ins Owens can obliterate 98% of CBs covering him one on one and still has the open field ability to make a fool of 95% of the safeties in this league. Of course that may not matter because how are they going to blitz with such reckless abandon without the Dynamic Duo on the Islands anymore, can anyone say pay with seven (Jim Johnson will soon.....;-)....). Sorry my post got so far off topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakehunter Posted May 8, 2004 Share Posted May 8, 2004 Hines Ward is also better then Coles... probably one of the most underrated in the game. Derrick Mason is also probably a better WR, that doesn't get much credit. Coles is definatly a good player, but I think the point everyone is trying to make is that he gets a little overrated here and in Wash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Da_Truth Posted May 8, 2004 Share Posted May 8, 2004 Originally posted by jakehunter Hines Ward is also better then Coles... probably one of the most underrated in the game. Derrick Mason is also probably a better WR, that doesn't get much credit. Coles is definatly a good player, but I think the point everyone is trying to make is that he gets a little overrated here and in Wash. You are sick if you think Hines Ward and Derrick Mason is better than Coles. Theres nothing overrated about Coles. Just look at the numbers. He got over 1200 recieving yards and went to the Pro Bowl his FIRST year with a new team playing under a crappy offensive system where the QB gets sack about 5 times a game!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagles_Legendz Posted May 8, 2004 Share Posted May 8, 2004 Originally posted by Gibbs_Rulez You are sick if you think Hines Ward and Derrick Mason is better than Coles. Theres nothing overrated about Coles. Just look at the numbers. He got over 1200 recieving yards and went to the Pro Bowl his FIRST year with a new team playing under a crappy offensive system where the QB gets sack about 5 times a game!!!! Ward: Rec, Yrds, Avg, Lng, TD 2002: 112 1329 11.9 72 12 2003: 95 1163 12.2 50 10 Coles: 89 1264 14.2 43 5 82 1204 14.7 64 6 And I would say that Maddox and the Steelers offense was even more woeful than the Redskins last year. I don't think it's preposterous, especially looking at those numbers, to take Ward over Coles. Mason clearly outproduced Coles last year as well, but I think Coles is a better receiver and certainly more dynamic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mookie0720 Posted May 8, 2004 Share Posted May 8, 2004 Originally posted by helluvaskinsfan moss couldn't hold rice's jockstrap but he is good you and me might not live long enough to see anyone outdo rice You have got to be kidding me...Moss is the most gifted reciever, maybe athlete to ever play the game. Everyone overblows the problems in his personal life b/c of some of his on the field antics. Besides his "traffic stop" Moss has never been arrested, or charged with any crime, nor in connection with any crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins26 Posted May 8, 2004 Author Share Posted May 8, 2004 Ward: Rec, Yrds, Avg, Lng, TD2002: 112 1329 11.9 72 12 2003: 95 1163 12.2 50 10 Coles: 89 1264 14.2 43 5 82 1204 14.7 64 6 And I would say that Maddox and the Steelers offense was even more woeful than the Redskins last year. I don't think it's preposterous, especially looking at those numbers, to take Ward over Coles. Mason clearly outproduced Coles last year as well, but I think Coles is a better receiver and certainly more dynamic. Ward also is not a clear #1 WR. I'm not even sure if he is the #1 on that team, with Buress there, sometimes teams will pay more attention to Buress than what teams would pay to Rod Gardner, therefore opening things up a little more for Ward. Also Coles could have had a MUCH bigger year if it wasnt for our problems protecting the QB. And he had a broken foot. I think you can argue that Ward is as good possibly better than Coles, Ward is a great receiver that is severely underrated. But Derrick Mason is nowhere near as good as Coles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagles_Legendz Posted May 8, 2004 Share Posted May 8, 2004 Originally posted by Skins26 Ward also is not a clear #1 WR. I'm not even sure if he is the #1 on that team, with Buress there, sometimes teams will pay more attention to Buress than what teams would pay to Rod Gardner, therefore opening things up a little more for Ward. Also Coles could have had a MUCH bigger year if it wasnt for our problems protecting the QB. And he had a broken foot. I think you can argue that Ward is as good possibly better than Coles, Ward is a great receiver that is severely underrated. But Derrick Mason is nowhere near as good as Coles. I'm agreeing with you. I simply stated that Mason outproduced Coles last year, but I think Coles is the superior receiver. I don't think teams consider Plaxico the number one, so that argument doesn't quite fly with me, but I think a case can be made that either Coles or Ward is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins26 Posted May 8, 2004 Author Share Posted May 8, 2004 I'm agreeing with you. I simply stated that Mason outproduced Coles last year, but I think Coles is the superior receiver. I don't think teams consider Plaxico the number one, so that argument doesn't quite fly with me, but I think a case can be made that either Coles or Ward is better. Yeah well I agree then. The Coles vs. Ward thing is definitly a close one, I think they are very similar players as well, they play with the same style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakehunter Posted May 9, 2004 Share Posted May 9, 2004 Ward is #1.. Burress had 800 yards. And Coles may play similar, but Ward is definatly tougher. That dude fights for everything. Not saying Coles is a slacker, because he plays hard... But Hines may be the toughest WR in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Adama Posted May 9, 2004 Share Posted May 9, 2004 Coles is a deep threat because of his speed while TO is more geared towards a West Coast Offense (Short passes on slants and let TO gain the yards after the catch). I like Coles better because of his work ethic and speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McNabb2Owens2k4 Posted May 9, 2004 Share Posted May 9, 2004 Originally posted by Displaced Redskin Fan Coles is a deep threat because of his speed while TO is more geared towards a West Coast Offense (Short passes on slants and let TO gain the yards after the catch). I like Coles better because of his work ethic and speed. Coles is more of a deep threat, yet TO catches more deep balls. hmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark327 Posted May 9, 2004 Share Posted May 9, 2004 Originally posted by mookie0720 You have got to be kidding me...Moss is the most gifted reciever, maybe athlete to ever play the game. Everyone overblows the problems in his personal life b/c of some of his on the field antics. Besides his "traffic stop" Moss has never been arrested, or charged with any crime, nor in connection with any crime. i actually think you must be kidding !! moss better gifted then jerry rice!!! but then i looked at your age and realized you don't know what your even saying . :doh: whats crime have to do with it ?? :ravensuck :gaintsuck :eaglesuck :dallasuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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