pr11fan Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 Agree Owens gets it done, I just want people to remember that Coles has exceeded Owens through his first four years, and he had more yardage than Owens last year despite our inability to protect the qb long enough to throw the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 If Coles is taken out of his game there's Gardner, Mcants,Jacobs and Thrash. I'll take that any day. [/b] I have to disagree there. Without Coles in there, you aren't stretching the Defense. I guess one day if Jacobs develops like we think he may be able to, then we will see, but NOW, no way you can be happy taking Coles out of the WR lineup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfdc Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 Bottom line IS : Coles is only being ripped because Philly finally got TO. How come you're not ripping Portis? This is obvious. Should you get a good or even great player, the ripping starts. When you are empty, I can't hear youuuuuuuuuu. How come you aren't ripping the LB's? How come you aren't ripping...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagles_Legendz Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 Originally posted by rfdc Bottom line IS : Coles is only being ripped because Philly finally got TO. How come you're not ripping Portis? This is obvious. Should you get a good or even great player, the ripping starts. When you are empty, I can't hear youuuuuuuuuu. How come you aren't ripping the LB's? How come you aren't ripping...... No Eagles fan in this thread is ripping Coles. We're simply responding to the question posed by a Redskins fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfdc Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 Then I would stand corrected there Eagles_Legendz, if that is the case. I think I could just as easily compare TO to Joe Horn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f_dallas Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 I honestly haven't read much of this thread, so If I'm saying the same thing as someone else, just disregard. Owens has had a better career than Coles- he's had more time to do it, but he has been a more dominant WR. He was/is a member of what the national media called the "big 3" with Harrison and Moss. Owens is also older now, and I'm not sure that he is a better WR as of today. I think he has advantages over Coles (one is obviously his size) and disadvantages when put alongside Coles (specifically Coles has a big edge in speed). But don't forget that up until last season when the wheels came off between Owens, Garcia, and the organization, Owens was the definition of unstoppable- Coles has not yet reached that level of dominance in the league. Coles is a very good player, and like I said, might be better than Owens at this point (don't know, but it's possible). I must say, though, that I wasn't that impressed with Coles when he played the Eagles. His speed was obvious, but he had Lito Shepard covering him most of both games he played and didn't do all that much (I think he averaged about 70 yards per game) and got a lot of the yards in the first game off a nicely designed screen pass. Also, after his hot start last year (391 yards in the first 3 games) he only averaged 62 yards per game the rest of the season. Finally, in what most considered Owens's worst season in a long time, he started one less game than Coles, had more TDs than Coles and had just slightly fewer yards/catches. Not bad for a guy that had an "off" year and missed time due to injury. Again, I'm not bashing Coles or praising TO- just stating my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins24 Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 Originally posted by f_dallas I must say, though, that I wasn't that impressed with Coles when he played the Eagles. His speed was obvious, but he had Lito Shepard covering him most of both games he played and didn't do all that much (I think he averaged about 70 yards per game) and got a lot of the yards in the first game off a nicely designed screen pass. Also, after his hot start last year (391 yards in the first 3 games) he only averaged 62 yards per game the rest of the season. Are you taking into account him being injured from the Falcons game on? Or and increasingly injured QB throwing to him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f_dallas Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 Are you taking into account him being injured from the Falcons game on? TO was injured some last season and he played with an injury riddled QB. Please save me the excuses- there are reasons TO didn;t have as good of a season last year as he has in years past. However, based on your statement, should I assume Coles is too small to hold up for an entire season and is injury prone (based on him being hurt for 13 games)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redsk58417 Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 Originally posted by f_dallas I honestly haven't read much of this thread, so If I'm saying the same thing as someone else, just disregard. Owens has had a better career than Coles- he's had more time to do it, but he has been a more dominant WR. He was/is a member of what the national media called the "big 3" with Harrison and Moss. Owens is also older now, and I'm not sure that he is a better WR as of today. I think he has advantages over Coles (one is obviously his size) and disadvantages when put alongside Coles (specifically Coles has a big edge in speed). But don't forget that up until last season when the wheels came off between Owens, Garcia, and the organization, Owens was the definition of unstoppable- Coles has not yet reached that level of dominance in the league. Coles is a very good player, and like I said, might be better than Owens at this point (don't know, but it's possible). I must say, though, that I wasn't that impressed with Coles when he played the Eagles. His speed was obvious, but he had Lito Shepard covering him most of both games he played and didn't do all that much (I think he averaged about 70 yards per game) and got a lot of the yards in the first game off a nicely designed screen pass. Also, after his hot start last year (391 yards in the first 3 games) he only averaged 62 yards per game the rest of the season. Finally, in what most considered Owens's worst season in a long time, he started one less game than Coles, had more TDs than Coles and had just slightly fewer yards/catches. Not bad for a guy that had an "off" year and missed time due to injury. Again, I'm not bashing Coles or praising TO- just stating my opinion. Well, several points: #1 I wasn't impressed with Owens vs. Philly last year. 1 reception for 20 yards? It was one half of work, but still. One catch? Versus Shep and/or Brown covering? To put it in perspective, Owens had 13 receptions for 166 yards and 2 td's in SF. That torching was against Taylor/Vincent at DB. The fear of Owens has dropped dramatically knowing that a "Shut Down" corner is *NOT* needed to stop him. Also, look at his cold weather performances. Another point is you high lighted and documented Owens QB situation. Coles didn't have a bad one too? The Skins QB (Ramsey) was sacked once in every 4 or 5 drop backs. Coles QB situation was far worse than TO's. Unbelievable.:2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
f_dallas Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 Well, several points:#1 I wasn't impressed with Owens vs. Philly last year. 1 reception for 20 yards? It was one half of work, but still. One catch? Versus Shep and/or Brown covering? To put it in perspective, Owens had 13 receptions for 166 yards and 2 td's in SF. That torching was against Taylor/Vincent at DB. The fear of Owens has dropped dramatically knowing that a "Shut Down" corner is *NOT* needed to stop him. Also, look at his cold weather performances. Another point is you high lighted and documented Owens QB situation. Coles didn't have a bad one too? The Skins QB (Ramsey) was sacked once in every 4 or 5 drop backs. Coles QB situation was far worse than TO's. Unbelievable. Well, I'm sorry that the only answer you will accept is: "The receiver for the Redskins is better than the receiver for the Eagles". Owens broke his collarbone in the second quarter of a game that didn't matter for either team and only had 1 catch for 20 yards. I'm sorry you weren't impressed. I wouldn't exactly call 1 game in which he left with 5 minutes remaining in the first half (with Jeff Garcia at a 6-17 clip at that point) an accurate gauge of his decline, but whatever. Unreal...why is it so tough for you to look at the situation, statistics, history, etc. and say "these guys are both good WRs? Instead, it's spin, spin, spin, excuse, excuse, excuse...."Redskins great". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redsk58417 Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 Originally posted by f_dallas Well, I'm sorry that the only answer you will accept is: "The receiver for the Redskins is better than the receiver for the Eagles". Owens broke his collarbone in the second quarter of a game that didn't matter for either team and only had 1 catch for 20 yards. I'm sorry you weren't impressed. I wouldn't exactly call 1 game in which he left with 5 minutes remaining in the first half (with Jeff Garcia at a 6-17 clip at that point) an accurate gauge of his decline, but whatever. Unreal...why is it so tough for you to look at the situation, statistics, history, etc. and say "these guys are both good WRs? Instead, it's spin, spin, spin, excuse, excuse, excuse...."Redskins great". Is that a flame or an attempt at sarcasm? Well, I explained why T.O. doesn't strike the "Fear" that most Eagles fans are looking for in some fans. I'll explain again, T.O. was held in check by 5'9 corners. And secondly, his cold weather stats are questionable. If he is going to be revered as "Big 3" material, he should have the onions to "Bring it" regardless the weather. Another thing, I admitted Owens to be better, but he is in no way unstoppable. You admitted not following the full thread, well most Skins fans admit Owens to be the better WR, but Coles is better *FOR THE SKINS.* Also, you keep bringing up QB's. Are you saying a Pro Bowl QB in Garcia is a worse situation than Coles with Ramsey, and Hasselbeck? Talk about "Spin." Let's see you Spin or explain (Whatever) your way out of those words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rfdc Posted May 10, 2004 Share Posted May 10, 2004 I think many haven't give Andy Reid credit for the job he did designing the defense on both TO and Coles last year, also not taken into account "correctly" is TO and Coles played hurt, but Coles played hurt with 2 to three injuries and the same for Fred Smoot. The bottom line is, Coles is about even with TO, now that TO has shown his age, just a tad. Still McNabb has no choice but to wing it to TO, who will be open still more than most WR's in the league. He will STILL be the dangerous threat he has always been, but keep in mind, show boating gets attention, but doesn't mean as much as it looks. The Lambeau leap made the receivers well known more than the numbers they could "consistantly" put up. Owens is consistant, period. Sure he had his bad days, but as pointed out so did Coles. Owens to me, hasn't really mellowed, he has just learned that a "coach" like Reid can make him look bad with average cover guys, in the right scheme. Ditto for Coles. So TO figured, can't beat em' might as well join em'. Well now Parcells D will be in higher gear this year, Williams will get more mileage out of the Skins D, so he picked who thought had the shortest route to a ring before its too late. He has learned something, hasn't he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakehunter Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 Originally posted by Redsk58417 Is that a flame or an attempt at sarcasm? Well, I explained why T.O. doesn't strike the "Fear" that most Eagles fans are looking for in some fans. I'll explain again, T.O. was held in check by 5'9 corners. And secondly, his cold weather stats are questionable. If he is going to be revered as "Big 3" material, he should have the onions to "Bring it" regardless the weather. Another thing, I admitted Owens to be better, but he is in no way unstoppable. You admitted not following the full thread, well most Skins fans admit Owens to be the better WR, but Coles is better *FOR THE SKINS.* Also, you keep bringing up QB's. Are you saying a Pro Bowl QB in Garcia is a worse situation than Coles with Ramsey, and Hasselbeck? Talk about "Spin." Let's see you Spin or explain (Whatever) your way out of those words. How big do you think the Carolina corners are? Coles had 35 yards in that game. I think you are over-evaluating TO on less then 1 half of football. Moss had 4 catches for 27 yards against Chicago during the season. Does that mean his age is starting to show? :laugh: You'll see this season how foolish your thought process is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RW31 Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 Man I want this thread to die!!! Ok, heres what will settle it. Coles and TO are on the same team, who is the no.1 option? exactly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Touchdown Portis! Posted May 11, 2004 Share Posted May 11, 2004 If I had to pick one I'd go with Coles. He can be just as much a threat as Owens, and he's not a *****! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsbadd Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 Originally posted by RW31 Man I want this thread to die!!! Ok, heres what will settle it. Coles and TO are on the same team, who is the no.1 option? exactly... Owens. And yes...die thread die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Master Jay Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 TO is one of the 2 best receivers in the game if not the best. Coles is a Skin but he aint no TO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 Originally posted by Art I voted for Owens, but I think you can make a seriously sound argument for Coles. Not only did Coles perform better than Owens last year despite being injured and playing in a weaker offensive system, but Coles has shown the capacity to take responsibility for his own mistakes and place the health of the team upon himself. The team concept for those who believe in chemistry likely puts Coles far above a guy like Owens. Coles is faster than owens. He's quicker. He's better in his routes. Coles was just better than Owens after getting the ball in his hands as well, surpassing him both in total yards after the catch as well as average gain in the YAC category. This despite Owens playing in a perfect offense for such yards and Coles playing in a system that was a little less ideal for it. These are clear advantages for Coles in physical traits as well as production. You add to that the fact that Coles fits in better on a typical team than Owens appears to and the ability to pick Coles certainly seems solid. I think MUCH of what people are picking in this poll though is what they perceive the possibilities for Coles are within this offense and the expectation that perhaps he'll really have a big year playing in it. You may not like the rationale that some are using in drawing their conclusions, GB, but, it seems that a simple dismissal of it based on your belief that an 80-catch receiver is in the Top 4 in the league leaves something about your football IQ to be desired here. I would have to give it to TO based on long-term history/facts...but as for Art's typically correct and thorough analysis...I felt the spanking all the way out here on the left coast:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleSteve Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 Ugh. It's back. I like RW31's solution. :point2sky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlsbadd Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 DIE,DIE,DIE!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redsk58417 Posted May 14, 2004 Share Posted May 14, 2004 Originally posted by jakehunter How big do you think the Carolina corners are? Coles had 35 yards in that game. I think you are over-evaluating TO on less then 1 half of football. Moss had 4 catches for 27 yards against Chicago during the season. Does that mean his age is starting to show? :laugh: You'll see this season how foolish your thought process is. What are you talking about with age? Convicted on something? Re-read my posts. I said T.O. is better. But Coles is better for the Skins. Now re-read my posts so you can see for yourself who is a "Foolish poster." What did you expect on a "REDSKINS" posting board? No Skins fan will say with sincerity, "The Eagles are the best team ever, and will win the next 5 Super Bowls." You won't hear that here. This is the best posting site on the net. Any team included. About "letting this thread die." Well, its football talk involving the Skins. Gotta love it. Can't get Skins talk on the NFL Network. And it sure beats the Madden, Lakers or political threads in the off season. Redskins talk pulls rank over all the other threads on this site, IMO.:2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty dread Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 how is Coles leading this poll? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagles_Legendz Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 Okay, who voted and bumped this thread up? :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty dread Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 not me I just commented Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mania Posted September 24, 2004 Share Posted September 24, 2004 Originally posted by dannyboy70 If the question is: "who's better?" I'd say Owens. If the question is: "who's better for your team?" than I'd have to say Coles. I completely agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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