Moving Towards our Future Front Office and Coaching Hires. All the Way to the Water Boy - Adam Peters Hired as GM! The Mighty Quinn is HC Kliff Kingsbury as OC. Joe Whitt jr at DC.

[MartinC]

28 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

We've pretty much been in lock step for the past year + in our opinion about the team I think. I think Del Rio could get another shot, but Ron is done and EB was very exposed. 

You have more chance getting a DC gig in the NFL than Del Rio.

[Koolblue13]

Just now, MartinC said:

You have more chance getting a DC gig in the NFL than Del Rio.

I don't think he will, but compared to Ron and EB? 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

We've pretty much been in lock step for the past year + in our opinion about the team I think. I think Del Rio could get another shot, but Ron is done and EB was very exposed. 

 

The weird plotline for me about Ron and Bieiniemy -- came off like Ron was afraid to tell him what to do or even hands on manage him.  Keim suggesting that Ron was aware that the O line wasn't hot but might have done more to reinforce it if he knew how pass happy Bieniemy intended to be -- really so Ron and Bieniemy didn't even talk about the offense and where it was going?

 

And it came out that the players wanted Rivera to be more hands on with this stuff.  Ron telling the players to motivate themselves at half-time.   All feels pathetic.  People joke about Spurrier treating the job like its a 9 to 5 -- feels like Rivera did, too. 

 

Contrast that to beat guys saying off season both Peters and Quinn have been showing up early and working non-stop -- I think we got light years of improvement.

 

Heck Keim who is no flame thrower doubling down multiple times that he can't overstate how much better he expects this coaching staff is, highlighting on defense.

Edited June 2 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The weird plotline for me about Ron and Bieiniemy -- came off like Ron was afraid to tell him what to do or even hands on manage him.  Keim suggesting that Ron was aware that the O line wasn't hot but might have done more to reinforce it if he knew how pass happy Bienimemy intended to be -- really so Ron and Bieniemy didn't even talk about the offense and where it was going?

 

And it came out that the players wanted Rivera to be more hands on with this stuff.  Ron telling the players to motivate themselves at half-time.   All feels pathetic.  People joke about Spurrier treating the job like its a 9 to 5 -- feels like Rivera did, too. 

 

Contrast that to beat guys saying off season both Peters and Quinn have been showing up early and working non-stop -- I think we got light years of improvement.

 

Heck Keim who is no flame thrower doubling down multiple times that he can't overstate how much better he expects this coaching staff is, highlighting on defense.

I couldn't be more excited. 

 

This past year it was clear that Ron was out from coaching. It also seemed like he was pissed at Harris for ruining his free ride.

[MartinC]

21 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I don't think he will, but compared to Ron and EB? 

I’d give EB more chance of getting another NFL gig over Ron or Del Rio. Maybe not as an OC though. 
 

I don’t think Ron or Del Rio will ever work in the NFL again. 

[Starry Plough]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

The weird plotline for me about Ron and Bieiniemy -- came off like Ron was afraid to tell him what to do or even hands on manage him.  Keim suggesting that Ron was aware that the O line wasn't hot but might have done more to reinforce it if he knew how pass happy Bieniemy intended to be -- really so Ron and Bieniemy didn't even talk about the offense and where it was going?

 

And it came out that the players wanted Rivera to be more hands on with this stuff.  Ron telling the players to motivate themselves at half-time.   All feels pathetic.  People joke about Spurrier treating the job like its a 9 to 5 -- feels like Rivera did, too. 

 

Contrast that to beat guys saying off season both Peters and Quinn have been showing up early and working non-stop -- I think we got light years of improvement.

 

Heck Keim who is no flame thrower doubling down multiple times that he can't overstate how much better he expects this coaching staff is, highlighting on defense.

With what has been mentioned before (by yourself SiP, and others) that Ron went into last season seemingly coasting without any degree of urgency always made the cynic in me not rule out him taking his feel-good story of overcoming serious illness as unquestionable job-security. But whilst I’ve said myself I think he took on way too much in those very circumstances, in hindsight his reign was atrocious - between the picks made in the 1st round each year (despite me also maintaining at the time, with what folk knew at the time, CY was the right pick but in future hindsight looks horrible) and coaching staff assembled. 
 

To see the hiring of DQ looking more and more like the right one, what with Ben Johnson’s questionable attitude as HC-material coming to the fore, is incredibly encouraging then and between the subsequent hires in both the coaching staff and scouting personnel it just continues to be layer after layer of the broken house Dan built being removed. 

[The Rook]

6 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Not only is Quinn a great old school type of HC, guys like KK, Lynn, Whitt and Norton don't strike me as guys who are trying to move forward up the coaching tree to HCs. At least not right now, so this coaching and FO group could be together for a while.

 

How many of the 6-8 NFL teams looking to change coaches next year will come sniffing around, will really be tied into how successful the team is.  If the entire front-line coaching team is still together for year three, I will be surprised.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

[Skinsinparadise]

22 minutes ago, Starry Plough said:

With what has been mentioned before (by yourself SiP, and others) that Ron went into last season seemingly coasting without any degree of urgency always made the cynic in me not rule out him taking his feel-good story of overcoming serious illness as unquestionable job-security. But whilst I’ve said myself I think he took on way too much in those very circumstances, in hindsight his reign was atrocious - between the picks made in the 1st round each year (despite me also maintaining at the time, with what folk knew at the time, CY was the right pick but in future hindsight looks horrible) and coaching staff assembled. 
 

To see the hiring of DQ looking more and more like the right one, what with Ben Johnson’s questionable attitude as HC-material coming to the fore, is incredibly encouraging then and between the subsequent hires in both the coaching staff and scouting personnel it just continues to be layer after layer of the broken house Dan built being removed. 

 

To me there is some poetry that Dan's last hire might have been his worst one.   And that hire was so bad last season that he might have speed up the trajectory of the franchise by loading up on draft capital, having the #2 pick, possible franchise QB -- and making the set up more attractive for someone like Peters to come on board. 

 

As for Ron, I'd have more sympathy for him if he didn't throw in the towell basically last year -- coupled with his tone deaf-arrogant comments with the send me my ring and defending Dan to the bitter end.

 

I found it ironic that Ron used his mouth piece Mike Silver to write an article towards the end of last year saying Ron had no chance because of Dan.  Maybe so. But Ron gets no out from me on it considering all the sucking up to Dan that took place even past the sale including him saying that Dan gave him everything he ever asked for.   lol, OK, then Ron I'll take you at your word.  

 

As some leaked to the media at the end of the tenure, Ron seemed more interested in the narrative about himself from the media, especially the national media, then he seemed interested in winning. 

[Koolblue13]

8 minutes ago, The Rook said:

 

How many of the 6-8 NFL teams looking to change coaches next year will come sniffing around, will really be tied into how successful the team is.  If the entire front-line coaching team is still together for year three, I will be surprised.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

I think we'll see position coaches poached constantly, but the big 4 are going on a run and turning us into Football U.

 

I am really so excited about this team now. We went from 30 years of the worst case scenario of the worst kind of fan owning the team, to the absolute best case. Harris and his team, the H.O.G for crying out loud, are lifetime fans. We're watching highly values front office people from thee best teams, leave to join up here. KK doesn't wanna HC again. Lynn, I don't know, but he seems content with what he's doing. Norton is going to coach Wagner and Luvu to a DC gig, but Whitt seems like a guy who stays forever behind Quinn.

 

Everyone we're bringing in just loves football and live it. We sem to be one of the most popular team for the guys in it right now. If that doesn't turn into an 82-91 kinda run, I don't know what will. 

[The Rook]

4 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I think we'll see position coaches poached constantly, but the big 4 are going on a run and turning us into Football U.

 

I am really so excited about this team now. We went from 30 years of the worst case scenario of the worst kind of fan owning the team, to the absolute best case. Harris and his team, the H.O.G for crying out loud, are lifetime fans. We're watching highly values front office people from thee best teams, leave to join up here. KK doesn't wanna HC again. Lynn, I don't know, but he seems content with what he's doing. Norton is going to coach Wagner and Luvu to a DC gig, but Whitt seems like a guy who stays forever behind Quinn.

 

Everyone we're bringing in just loves football and live it. We sem to be one of the most popular team for the guys in it right now. If that doesn't turn into an 82-91 kinda run, I don't know what will. 

 

It will be great if that happens.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

[CapsSkins]

Ron exposed himself as overly concerned with his own PR image. He was a politician through and through.

 

Makes me wonder how much of the "Ron is a great guy" stuff was a product of his own mythmaking.

[Skinsinparadise]

16 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

Ron exposed himself as overly concerned with his own PR image. He was a politician through and through.

 

Makes me wonder how much of the "Ron is a great guy" stuff was a product of his own mythmaking.

 

Ron comes off like a nice guy as to how he is interacting with people and he has the reputation too so I gather that part is sincere.

 

But as a coach he seemed to be about his image more than anything.  Craig Hoffman once said it well -- that Ron comes like he's playing an acting role in some movie about a high school coach.  Posturing and image driven.  

 

The irony is as self conscious as he was about his image and the narrative around the team above all -- according to some in that building who worked with him -- he wasn't that hot at playing that part.  He's made as many buffoonish statements as Bruce-Vinny.

Edited June 2 by Skinsinparadise

[Going Commando]

Mike Shanahan and Jay Gruden were just as bad of coaches and worse leaders than Ron.  Shanahan was a control freak tyrant with zero people skills who made an entire career out of being lucky enough to work with Steve Young and John Elway, legends who could tell him to sit the **** down and he'd have to listen.  He was a QB killer who operated on nepotism, same as Ron, but he was a huge asshole and he intentionally threw his final season here and Ron wasn't and didn't.  Gruden was a mostly affable clown with no leadership ability.  He was a bad head coach who never had any really good seasons like Ron managed a couple of times.  And Bruce was definitely a worse GM than Ron and the Martys were.  Ron and the Martys were at least able to tread water and hold the locker room together for a surprisingly long amount of time before the bottom fell out on their program.  None of these regimes were good, but Ron was a respectable football lifer who was a pretty good coach that just lost his edge and had too much power and responsibility on his plate.  I'm glad he's moved on, but we don't need trash him any more, and some of his people are still here.

[woodpecker]

I guess you could make a case for any of them being the worst coach under Snyder, but really it doesn’t matter. None of them ever had any chance. They all had Snyder and his henchmen picking the players, except for Ron who had the only thing worse… Himself picking the players. 

[spjunkies]

Edit: wrong thread 

Edited June 3 by spjunkies

[Skinsinparadise]

20 hours ago, Going Commando said:

Mike Shanahan and Jay Gruden were just as bad of coaches and worse leaders than Ron.  

 

Shanahan was the defacto GM, also not good at that job.  But he actually drafted some studs, Kerrigan, Trent, Jordan Reed, Kirk, Alfred Morris, Chris Thompson.  Some good FAs like Garcon.

 

Overall, meh but he easily eclipsed Ron IMO.  Also amassed one of the stud coaching staffs on the offensive side that we still hear about today. What Ron assistant coach is being talked about the next HC elsewhere, let alone like 7 under Shanny.  Shanny had one of the two 10 win seasons under Dan and the only season where we were nationally relevant with Dan aside from the Gibbs 2 years.

 

He wasn't hot but easily better than Ron.  Not even close IMO.  Heck at this pace, Shanny's drafts might out pace Ron even as to player longevity in the league even though he started eons before Ron. 

 

Jay Gruden was a bit closer to Ron IMO.  But still easily beat him in the front office and on the field.  It was the last era where our offense was any good.  Ranked #3 one year.   Only dude sad as it is to have two winning seasons back to back under Dan, just barely but he pulled it off.  A playoff apperance, too.   He likely would have made it in 2018 too if it wasn't for Alex's injury.

 

Sadder yet the best players Ron had were the ones who Jay's regime drafted.  And yeah Jay was an influencer on the draft.  Terry, Allen, Payne, Sweat, Scheriff.  Ron never eclipsed that.  Ron like Spurrier and Zorn never had a winning season. And Ron unlike those two had 4 seasons to do it.

 

I would once defend Ron as a leader.  You actually questioned him initially.   Then we somewhat flipped on the point last year.  Your first instinct was right IMO.  The dude would whine nonstop about getting the fans to buy into what he was doing and how things changed.  Yet had some of the most drab and uninspiring off seasons that I can recall as a fan with the worst being last year.  He was about as exciting as watching paint dry.   Being boring and not coming off like you are putting your foot on the gas would be fine, if they would win.  But that didn't happen. 

 

Talk about his "leadership".  Phoning in a season basically.  Not saying a word to the team in half time when they were being blown out by the Bears.  On the sidelines not saying a word basically during games to the team. Doc Walker likes to call him the mortician for the lack of energy he displayed in his observation around the building -- lack of oomph.  And cites how night and day Quinn comes off in that department.

 

Didn't apparently even know how pass happy Bieniemy planned to be and then when the players grumbled about it and wanted him to interfere -- apparently he did not.   Arrogant-smug statements before the season about sending him his SB ring when the next coach wins a SB with his roster.  Same dude who didn't know the season prior that his team can be eliminated in the playoff hunt with a loss. 

 

When we got a zillion reports about how Dan Snyder is a bad person. Who from the present or past came in to defend Dan?  No one.  Except...Ron Rivera.  And he did after he needed to, Dan was already out the door so it wasn't about just sucking up to his boss.   Then when it became clear at the end of the season he wasn't being looked on fondly as a coach he had his pal Mike Silver write an artlce blaming his tenure on Dan.  Same dude months earlier he said he doesn't get why the media gives Dan a hard time and Dan gave him everything he wanted.

 

Same guy who throws players under the bus publicly as you youself pointed out in the past.  Same dude who his co-workers told the media at the end of his tenure that Ron seemed more interested in controlling media narratives than winning.  No wonder his own players ranked him and his coaching staff as 31st out of 32 teams in the player survey and that was before the season crashed.  And dudes like Jonathan Allen who came off like they wanted out, now is totally in because this new staff is a refreshing change.

 

Ron ended a punchline IMO.  As a person, I admire him conquering cancer and dealing with a douche of an owner.  So purely as a person, I've liked Ron and still do.  But as a coach-GM he was a train wreck IMO and not a leader or competent in my defintion of the words.  Am not sure I agree with Doc Walker that he was worse than Zorn.  Zorn oozed incompetence in a bigger way than Ron did -- but I get it from the perspective that Ron's incompetence enveloped the whole team since he was in charge of it all which Zorn was not.

Edited June 3 by Skinsinparadise

[Riggo#44]

52 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Shanahan was the defacto GM, also not good at that job.  But he actually drafted some studs, Kerrigan, Trent, Jordan Reed, Kirk, Alfred Morris, Chris Thompson.  Some good FAs like Garcon.

 

Overall, meh but he easily eclipsed Ron IMO.  Also amassed one of the stud coaching staffs on the offensive side that we still hear about today. What Ron assistant coach is being talked about the next HC elsehwere, let alone like 7 under Shanny.  Shanny had one of the two 10 win seasons under Dan and the only season where we were nationally relevant with Dan aside from the Gibbs 2 years.

 

He wasn't hot but easily better than Ron.  Not even close IMO.  Heck at this pace, Shanny's drafts might out pace Ron even as to player longevity in the league even though he started eons before Ron.

 

I feel like Quinn is expected to be what Shanahan could have been, without Snyder and Allen. I just remember being so excited about Bruce Allen. Little did we know then what a colossal douche Allen is/was. But we were so tired of Sacks n' Stuff Cerrato, ANYONE was an upgrade. And the sad part is, Allen was a significant upgrade. 

 

I think it became clearer and clearer how overwhelmed Rivera was. Watching him seemingly deteriorate mentally the last two years was telling. Being coach and GM is extremely difficult--let alone HERE, under Snyder. 

Edited June 3 by Riggo#44

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

I feel like Quinn is expected to be what Shanahan could have been, without Snyder and Allen. I just remember being so excited about Bruce Allen. Little did we know then what a colossal douche Allen is/was. But we were so tired of Sacks n' Stuff Cerrato, ANYONE was an upgrade. And the sad part is, Allen was a significant upgrade. 

 

I think it became clearer and clearer how overwhelmed Rivera was. Watching him seemingly deteriorate mentally the last two years was telling. Being coach and GM is extremely difficult--let alone HERE, under Snyder. 

 

Yeah Rivera was overwhelmed.  And its tough enough to handle two jobs when you are a workaholic, 24-7 nonstop type -- even tougher to do when you aren't a workaholic type.  And I get the vibe that Ron was far from a workaholic.

 

I give him a deserved out for cancer likely effecting his energy level.  But after recovering from it, I'd hope if he was still feeling "meh" he'd have quit as opposed to going half speed for the good of the team.

 

Not only does Quinn come off the better coach but from what I've heard he's already an wee hour of the morning come to work guy -- ditto Adam Peters.  They are likely both harder workers than Rivera while also being much more competent.    Does that guarantee success?  Nope but I like the chances. 

Edited June 3 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

I think Ron had the perfect storm of losing hand dealt to him, which led to his downfall.

 

Cancer, deadbeat owner on his way out, lack of resources to build a competitive team, drafting Chase instead of Herbert (which seemed like a good move at the time).

[RVAskins]

6 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I think Ron had the perfect storm of losing hand dealt to him, which led to his downfall.

 

Cancer, deadbeat owner on his way out, lack of resources to build a competitive team, drafting Chase instead of Herbert (which seemed like a good move at the time).

This team had a dark cloud over it the entire time the previous owner had the team. Even if we drafted Herbert, he probably would have torn his ACL, MCL, LCL, and PCL, in training camp. Time to close the book on the past, except for the days before the previous owner.

[Skinsinparadise]

46 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I think Ron had the perfect storm of losing hand dealt to him, which led to his downfall.

 

Cancer, deadbeat owner on his way out, lack of resources to build a competitive team, drafting Chase instead of Herbert (which seemed like a good move at the time).

 

I agree.  And I don't mean this is a snarky way and its something that took me a long time to digest -- that is, if you are going to take on basically two jobs, not just one, but two, and your work ethic (for whatever reason, cancer, age, lack of fire?) is at best just ordinary, you got no shot.  Tough enough to be a workaholic and take on 2 jobs.  But when you don't put in the time in either job, you likely got no chance.

 

I got the vibe that Quinn will put in like 50% more time and effort in the coaching job than Ron did and Peters ditto into the GM job.  So we got guys that appear to be running a lot faster, spending a lot more time at the job, and are more competent.  Hence I expect a sea change.

Edited June 3 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I agree.  And I don't mean this is a snarky way and its something that took me a long time to digest -- that is, if you are going to take on basically two jobs, not just one, but two, and your work ethic (for whatever reason, cancer, age, lack of fire?) is at best just ordinary, you got no shot.  Tough enough to be a workaholic and take on 2 jobs.  But when you don't put in a time of time in either job, you likely got no chance.

I mean, he came in and told a future HoF LT that he needed to prove himself and completely dismantled a pretty good OL to make a point, then tanked the QB position and then hired an incompetent OC and gave him full Asst HC control to the players dismay, while tanking his drafts and skipping FA, so.....

[Skinsinparadise]

26 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I mean, he came in and told a future HoF LT that he needed to prove himself and completely dismantled a pretty good OL to make a point, then tanked the QB position and then hired an incompetent OC and gave him full Asst HC control to the players dismay, while tanking his drafts and skipping FA, so.....

 

If he weren't a nice guy who went through a lot -- I think he would easily be clowned on a lot more because the level of incompetence, half speed effort, and buffonish statements were arguably the worst of the bad lot in Dan's era

 

The "we can be eliminated," "I studied the anayltics on Wentz myself" "send me my SB ring", defending Dan.  On and on

 

The draft was comical.  Vinny and Bruce were bad but not Ron level bad.   Right now it looks like he might have bombed every first round pick.  That's a new world of incompetence even for this team.

 

FA sucked aside from the one year Kyle basically ran it.

 

On the field, with his arms folded saying nothing during the game to the team.  On and on.

 

He doesn't help himself because he comes off like a dude who didn't learn a thing, including just recently defending them not taking Herbert. Sheehan made a good point when replaying Rivera's farewell speech when he got canned in Carolina -- he came off defiant like he wouldn't have done a single thing different and Carolina screwed up by letting him go.  Contrast that to Quinn who hired a firm to interview people he worked to find flaws he could fix the next time he has a go at this. 

 

I get why Jonathan Allen feels...

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/commanders-dt-jonathan-allen-dream-204504609.html

When he talked after the season, he said he needed some time away to ponder his future. In an event with the local media in February, Allen appeared refreshed and happy under Washington’s new regime, led by general manager Adam Peters and head coach Dan Quinn.

After Wednesday’s Organized Training Activity (OTAs), Allen spoke to the media and expressed his praise for the organization’s positive changes.

“I’m just so happy; I love the coaching staff, I love the direction we’re moving in, I love the way we’re working, man, it has truly been reinvigorating,” Allen said. “Just so fun to come to work every day. This is literally just a dream job right now.”

Allen acknowledged he was emotional and needed to get away after the season. But when he met with Peters and Quinn, everything was suddenly better, and he was excited about the present and future.

Edited June 3 by Skinsinparadise

[RVAskins]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I got the vibe that Quinn will put in like 50% more time and effort in the coaching job than Ron did and Peters ditto into the GM job.  So we got guys that appear to be running a lot faster, spending a lot more time at the job, and are more competent.

I don't think anyone could ever out work Joe Gibbs. The stories of him sleeping on a cot in his office are legendary. I don't expect DQ to do that, but I believe he will put more time and effort than RR.

Edited June 3 by RVAskins

[FrFan]

Washington Commanders OC Kliff Kingsbury Opens Up About New Role

The Washington Commanders' new offensive coordinator is staring at a huge opportunity and he knows it.................................

"He's one of the best offensive minds that I've been around,"

- TE Zach Ertz on OC Kliff Kingsbury