Moving Towards our Future Front Office and Coaching Hires. All the Way to the Water Boy - Adam Peters Hired as GM! The Mighty Quinn is HC Kliff Kingsbury as OC. Joe Whitt jr at DC.

[goskins10]

An offensive minded HC candidate that is not confident in his ability to develop a franchise QB? LOL  Wow, just wow. Now glad it didn't work out. Loving this teams process more and more. 

 

 

[Going Commando]

Johnson should have just said he loved his current job and left it at that.  That's what any of us would say if we stayed in our current jobs and didn't try and get a new one at a different place when there was an opening.  Actually it's more accurate to say Johnson did start going through the hiring process at the new place, and then intentionally tanked it.

 

His best damage control move was just to say he loves working for Dan Campbell.  Some guys are great coordinators, love to roll up their sleeves and focus on the Xs and Os work, and don't really want to do all of the job of being an HC.  I suspect that's Johnson.  Snubbing and badmouthing our ownership was just needlessly alienating on his part.  He's a dummy whose been burning bridges that he might one day need, because ****ty NFL job security applies to coordinators in places like Detroit too.  One bad season and he could be looking for another OC job, and the guys who land on their feet after those setbacks are the ones who build up a web of friends around the league.

[Riggo#44]

4 hours ago, goskins10 said:

An offensive minded HC candidate that is not confident in his ability to develop a franchise QB? LOL  Wow, just wow. Now glad it didn't work out. Loving this teams process more and more. 

 

 

It makes perfect sense now why Keim continued to say there was no favorite. It really sounds like Johnson is a #2 and not a leader of men that they were looking for. Given the number of coaches and players that wanted to come here is very telling. 
 

Adam Peters, et al might have known what they were doing. And I say this as someone who really wanted Ben Johnson. I definitely changed my mind as more information I had been revealed. 

[Koolblue13]

I hope we play them in the playoffs this year.

[Riggo#44]

I love that we swiped two of their front office people.

[CommanderInTheRye]

9 hours ago, Conn said:

 

 

 

 

He's risk averse, in a high risk profession.

 

On balance, his voluntary withdrawal from our head coaching interview was the best decision for both parties.

 

There's nothing wrong with admitting that you're just more comfortable with less responsibility.

 

He should just man up and say it, rather than coming up with a bunch of transparent rationalizations. At least I could respect that.

 

As it is, he comes across inauthentic and insecure-- a fatal combination in a head coach, no matter how ingenious he is at  X's and O's.

 

 

 

"A man's got to know his limitations."

Clint Eastwood as Dirty Harry in "Magnum Force".

 

.

Edited June 1 by CommanderInTheRye

[Skinsinparadise]

On 5/20/2024 at 1:28 PM, Bifflog said:

 

 

Was listening to this same scout insider, Neil Stratton, on Standig's podcast.  He said Chris White who they got from the Bears was really highly regarded and he got a text from a scouting insider saying he can't believe the Bears let him out of that building.  He also praised the heck out of Dwaune Jones and Blackburn as studs in the scouting community.

Edited June 1 by Skinsinparadise

[Going Commando]

Harris must be springing for all of these front office hires, getting them to leave good jobs for us.  Dan Quinn is also a community builder.  People like him attract talent because you want to be around that positive energy.  He's the reason so many talented coaches and veteran players wanted to come here.  We'll see what happens, but I believe he was out best candidate.

[srtman04]

5 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

Harris must be springing for all of these front office hires, getting them to leave good jobs for us.  Dan Quinn is also a community builder.  People like him attract talent because you want to be around that positive energy.  He's the reason so many talented coaches and veteran players wanted to come here.  We'll see what happens, but I believe he was out best candidate.

 

And the amazing pull of the GOAT himself Adam Peters.  This is truly the best case scenario for us!

[Warhead36]

14 hours ago, Going Commando said:

Johnson should have just said he loved his current job and left it at that.  That's what any of us would say if we stayed in our current jobs and didn't try and get a new one at a different place when there was an opening.  Actually it's more accurate to say Johnson did start going through the hiring process at the new place, and then intentionally tanked it.

 

 

Exactly. Just say something like "I thought about it but I love Detroit and wanted to stay, but I thank Washington/LA/Atlanta etc. for the consideration and wish them well." 

 

Dude burnt a lot of bridges and doesn't come across as a leader of men at all. 

 

On top of that, why would any team offer him everything he wants? To a guy who has accomplished nothing? McVay didn't demand all that. He had to resurrect Goff and a Ram program that was an abject disaster after the end of the Fisher era. Shanahan didn't demand all that. He had nobody at QB and went to a 49er team that was in total disarray after Harbaugh left.

 

You're gonna be a first time HC. Jobs like the Chiefs and Bills won't be available for you.

[Skinsinparadise]

17 hours ago, Going Commando said:

Harris must be springing for all of these front office hires, getting them to leave good jobs for us.  Dan Quinn is also a community builder.  People like him attract talent because you want to be around that positive energy.  He's the reason so many talented coaches and veteran players wanted to come here.  We'll see what happens, but I believe he was out best candidate.

 

Quinn is clearly beloved around the league.

 

Also ditto Adam Peters.  I recall before he was hired here, there was a good article about who are the non-GMs in the league that fellow scouts and agents feel should be a GM in the league. Peters ranked #1 and that same article talked about how he is a great person, too.

 

We've gone from having the biggest combination of a douche-incompetent-cheap owner perhaps in NFL history.  I'll give that there were other owners maybe even cheaper but Dan was top 5 at least on that front after the Cerrato era -- everything from giving the team cheap food for most of his tenure, being one of the lowest paying teams for scouts, we'd lose assistant coaches to other teams because we wouldn't pay, they have a facility that wouldn't even make the standards of a low grade college football team and they let the stadium literally fall apart.   Heck it came out during the women investigation that part of the issue is unlike some teams that have multiple human resource employees, we didn't even have one full time-employee.  As Chris Russell once said Dan treated the team like a Dollar Store. 

 

Harris on the other hand is clearly willing to spend and by most accounts is a good dude and is competent.  They are putting in money to upgrade the stadium, facility -- adding to the medical-recovery staff, loading up the front office, etc.  He's said there is a salary cap, nothing can be done about that but there is no cap on spending on various things that help get an edge.

 

I along with @TSO, @BatteredFanSyndrome, @goskins10 among a slew others would battle some on the FO thread back during the Bruce days and it would get VERY intense.  All of the Bruce > Vinny posts from some and the idea that we should appreciate how he doesn't overspend and heck now we spend money on Blesto like other teams do so they get some generic scouting help now.   I would say back then Bruce's cheapness if anything would be the bane of this organization but I admit even I didn't think it would sink the Titanic but it basically did. 

 

My thought then was add Dan's douche-incompetent behavior and then add becoming cheap too -- that's lethal  and super boring and uninspiring.  As bad as Cerrato was he still had a better record than Bruce and was more interesting.  Spending money stupidly still beat being cheap.  Both bad but the cheap version of it was even worse.

 

Anyway we used to tallk about pinning for a real FO with a real GM running it and a team that would spend money Eagles style for example on loading their FO with studs.   Now that's what we are doing and its a blast to see.  Instead of bragging that we are now one of just about every team subscribed to Blesto, we got the dude who runs Blesto as an area scout.  Hearing Jay explain not that long ago that the FO didn't listen to him a heck of a lot and that he for example told Bruce back in the day, trade Kirk, he's not coming back, and Bruce wouldn't listen.  And according to Jay, Bruce did most of his scouting on the "Internet".  That is what other people say about these players.  Shows how pathetic the operation was.

 

Sadly, Ron might have been worse.  I gave him rope for years in part because he was at least a football guy versus Bruce who was a politician posing as a GM. So it took me some time to encode his level of incompetence in part because I was thinking anyone but Bruce.  The same way ironically some years ago gave Bruce rope because he wasn't Cerrato.  But still Ron had no experience playing GM.  And the one stud he had in house by reputation Kyle Smith, he got rid of.  And loaded the FO generally with people discarded elsewhere.    It's come out since that the FO decisions were heavily mostly Ron and Hurney.  Their drafts and FA classes haven't aged well -- sans the first FA class that from what I gathered was Kyle Smith's baby.

 

Race forward to today, hearing Neil Stratton who is a scout insider talk about how the 49ers, Ravens, etc spend more money than most on scouts and cultvate those departments bring home how the best teams operate like that.  We've operared like a Banana Republic.  If you are going to take the opposite approach of the big boy teams and lose we shouldn't be surprised.  So when someone from time to time (including from the national media) suggests hey this is Washington, its a loser organization, and will that change with Dan gone?  My thought is heck yeah it will turn.  How fast, I don't know. But 100% it will shift.  If you do things the wrong way and do it wrong in every way possible (like under Dan) you are bound to suck.  You do it all the right way, its just a matter of time before you win.

 

Edited June 2 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

On 6/1/2024 at 8:04 AM, Going Commando said:

Johnson should have just said he loved his current job and left it at that.  That's what any of us would say if we stayed in our current jobs and didn't try and get a new one at a different place when there was an opening.  Actually it's more accurate to say Johnson did start going through the hiring process at the new place, and then intentionally tanked it.

 

His best damage control move was just to say he loves working for Dan Campbell.  Some guys are great coordinators, love to roll up their sleeves and focus on the Xs and Os work, and don't really want to do all of the job of being an HC.  I suspect that's Johnson.  Snubbing and badmouthing our ownership was just needlessly alienating on his part.  He's a dummy whose been burning bridges that he might one day need, because ****ty NFL job security applies to coordinators in places like Detroit too.  One bad season and he could be looking for another OC job, and the guys who land on their feet after those setbacks are the ones who build up a web of friends around the league.

 

Coming from a dude who wanted Ben Johnson and then changed my mind towards the end -- I think the issue with Ben might simply be being a HC often is helped when you got really good people skils, you are extroverted and have some Alpha to your personality.  And I would even say back when I pushed Ben, does he have the personality for this?

 

He comes off to me from what I read about him that he's comfortable with people more as a behind the scenes guy.  I heard different Lion reporters say Ben doesn't really take charge of the room like the way Campbell does and their defensive coordinator does.

 

Johnson comes off like a dude who is not comfortable being uncomfortable and not a natural leader.  Obviously, its just a guess but that's how he comes off to me.  That's fine, I know people in my work for example that are successful with those triats.   But I got a strong feeling Johnson would be, Norv Turner like, as a head coach.  Norv was a smart coach but not a leader and according to some who covered him, he was uncomfortable navigating personalites and taking charge of a room. 

 

I don't think Ben tanked the interviews.  I buy the rumbilings-reports of Ben didn't interview well.   And Ben is no dummy he probably sensed none of those jobs are locks.  Washington seemed to be his best chance.  And i am guessing he can tell he wasn't bonding in those interviews.  The fact that Ben had to come out with a counter punch leak that he didn't care for the interviewees and the basketball references, etc -- IMO showcased his insecurity and weakness.  

 

Watching his demeanor in that interview and listening to what he said -- and filtering that with some other interviews I watched of him, he strikes me as a dude who is a bit weird and comes off smug yet insecure.  And he can mask his points and he certainly tries to do it but that was another round of him in my book coming off like he treasures comfortable situations and is uncomfortable with the idea of being uncomfortable. 

 

In converse, I can totally see Quinn and Peters bonding in an interview.  Both are brimming with people skills, energy and positivity.  So when Keim said early on that he heard (Sheehan said something similar) that Quinn killed it in the interviews. I can see that.

Edited June 2 by Skinsinparadise

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I had convinced myself it was Johnson or bust, based primarily on his work with Goff and Detroit’s success.  I had pause about his demeanor on the sidelines and the lack of ever having heard him say much of anything.  I had performed mental gymnastics trying to take a blurb from St. Brown about his willingness to listen to players and run what they like, and converted that into believing that could make him a leader of men.

 

But literally every word out of Detroit and Johnson since he ‘bowed out’ leads me to believe we dodged a major bullet.  It’s okay to be okay with being #2, but it sounds like he’s not okay with the perception that he’s okay being #2.    He doesn’t want to be perceived that way, so instead he makes it about a wish list of the perfect scenario that doesn’t exist for a first time head coach.  Every owner and GM that interviews this guy moving forward will be looking into his soul a little deeper, and likely walk away feeling he’s a bit soft, and uncomfortable that he comes off that way.

 

 

[Koolblue13]

Not only is Quinn a great old school type of HC, guys like KK, Lynn, Whitt and Norton don't strike me as guys who are trying to move forward up the coaching tree to HCs. At least not right now, so this coaching and FO group could be together for a while.

[88Comrade2000]

Who cares about Johnson. He’s not head coach material and we’re lucky he pulled out, not that he was going to get the job.

 

When he feels he’s ready , he’ll interview and some team will hire him

but you can already tell, he won’t be a good coach.

 

I think after that zoom round of interviews, Dan leaped to be the favorite. We had a process and we were going to physically interview all our candidates before hiring.  Dan went in as the favorite but other coaches, if they wowed us; could’ve gotten the job.  That didn’t happen and the one candidate that everyone thought would, pulled out.

 

 

Dan seems determined to be successful this time and learned from what he did wrong in Atlanta. Who hires someone to do a deep dive on himself after getting fired?

 

I don’t know if Dan will lead us to a Lombardi but I do believe Dan will at least turn it around and at least leave a foundation of a team that will win it all, if he can’t.

Edited June 2 by 88Comrade2000

[woodpecker]

When he bailed on his interview, while peters and company were on the plane to come meet him, I knew right then and there he was not head coaching material. 
It exposed him as both indecisive and unprofessional. Quinn, on the other hand, is an experienced coach and a good people person. He would’ve handled the situation much better and seems way more equipped to handle all that comes with the job. Johnson belongs on the same list with Norv… good coordinator, but not HC material. The bottom line is they made the correct hire here, so the process that it took to get there really doesn’t matter.

[Koolblue13]

BJ is a Norvel.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I had convinced myself it was Johnson or bust, based primarily on his work with Goff and Detroit’s success.  I had pause about his demeanor on the sidelines and the lack of ever having heard him say much of anything.  I had performed mental gymnastics trying to take a blurb from St. Brown about his willingness to listen to players and run what they like, and converted that into believing that could make him a leader of men.

 

But literally every word out of Detroit and Johnson since he ‘bowed out’ leads me to believe we dodged a major bullet.  It’s okay to be okay with being #2, but it sounds like he’s not okay with the perception that he’s okay being #2.    He doesn’t want to be perceived that way, so instead he makes it about a wish list of the perfect scenario that doesn’t exist for a first time head coach.  Every owner and GM that interviews this guy moving forward will be looking into his soul a little deeper, and likely walk away feeling he’s a bit soft, and uncomfortable that he comes off that way.

 

 

 

Me too.  During the coaching search, I saw the reports from people that knew Slowik that he's not an Alpha type, extrovert, leader and I talked about it then.  Doesn't mean you can't be successful but I do think it lessens your chances. 

 

Johnson seemed to have that rep some too but not to the same extent as Slowik so I was more willing to go on the ride with Johnson.  But seeing it play out, I now think lol I'd actually bet Slowik over Johnson if I had to choose.  Slowik profile wise comes off as a low key dude -- but I don't sense any weirdness, deep rooted insecurity with him. Granted from a limited sample so again this me is just guessing based on watching interviews, reading and hearing about those guys.

 

But yeah I think you put it well.  Johnson is OK with being 2 but isn't OK with the perception that he's OK with being 2 -- and it comes off like a hangup with him.  I do think he hurt his Hc prospects some.  The combination of him cancelling an interview when they were coming to see him, and him taking shots at this regime I doubt goes over well with the rest of the NFL.  I think it was Standig who said talking to people around the league -- they thought it was a bad look for Johnson when he cancelled the flight mid air.  

 

And the shots at this regime and just his general behavior comes off to me as a dude who is passive-aggressive.  And that was sort of the descrption of Norv.  And before someone jumps down my throat on this -- am making a guess here, I don't know.  But heck when it comes to coaching hires, that's all we can do.  That is guess based on limited info.

 

50 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

Who cares about Johnson.

 

You don't.  But clearly some people here find it interesting what we dodged -- ditto some who covered this team, it got some podcast and radio play and callers called in to talk about it.  So some do care about the topic at least a little.

Edited June 2 by Skinsinparadise

[woodpecker]

13 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

You don't.  But clearly some people here find it interesting what we dodged -- ditto some who covered this team, it got some podcast and radio play and callers called in to talk about it.  So some do care about the topic at least a little.

of course we care! We have a vested interest now in rooting for Ben Johnson to be a complete failure so that our team can get the last laugh. 

[Skinsinparadise]

54 minutes ago, woodpecker said:

of course we care! We have a vested interest now in rooting for Ben Johnson to be a complete failure so that our team can get the last laugh. 

 

Am definitiely in that group.  He's an easy guy right now for me to root against. 😎

[Riggo#44]

24 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Am definitiely in that group.  He's an easy guy right now for me to root against. 😎

 

Detroit went from "easy team to root for" to "man, **** yo' mama!" in a heartbeat. I hope Goff falls on his face a regresses that 19/20 game manager, Gibbs is Rickey Ervins 2.0, and we took all their real evaluation talent. So, essentially, they revert to being  the Lions.

[Skinsinparadise]

On another note, I am not always with Doc Walker as to point of view stuff albiet I find him at times entertaining in some doses.

 

He's been somewhat low key on and off ripping Rivera and the previous coaching staff and talking about how night and day this new coaching staff comes off better. 

 

What got my attention is a podcast he just did with Sheehan, he debates Sheehan as to which was the worst coach here, Zorn or Rivera.  Sheehan goes Zorn.  Doc goes Rivera and what compounded it for him was that he was in charge of everything.

 

Sheehan then referenced Doc texting him the week before a game watching practice and said these guys don't look prepared and will lose.  And they did lose.  They didn't reference which game.

 

Zorn sucking didn't sneak up on me.  Ditto Jay not being the hottest HC, I commented on both scenarios early on.  Rivera did sneak up on me and how bad he was.  I was snowed by him being a good person in the sea of douches in that building so he had a lot of slack from me initially.

 

But digesting him over time, I'd agree with Doc, he was the worst of the bad run of coaches here.  If he wasn't a nice guy who went through a lot -- he would have had that Zorn-Bruce-Cerrato punchline status with so many classic missstatements that exposed his incompetence and delusion.  The "we were eliminated" comment.   Send me my playoff ring.  He doesn't get why the media gives Dan a hard time.  I did the analytics myself on Wentz.  The weird doubling down on why he didn't like Herbert or Tua.  On and on.

 

You add his players ranked him and the assistant coaches 31 out of 32 in the survey done by the NFL and that's mind you before the season crashed.  The WP reporter around the team last year saying the team looked done emotionally after the Bears loss early in the season.  In that same game, Ron telling the sideline reporter he didn't say a word to the team at half time and let the team talk among themselves.  

 

That regime went through some hard times off the field, I'll give them that.  But on the field and front office it was an incompetent-buffoon level performance and yeah am with Doc worse than Zorn.   I'd go as far as saying Ron in his 4 years leapfrogged Vinny and Bruce not just as to incompetence but making some of the most obtuse statements that brought home the reasons for the incompetence. 

 

My point is I think this coaching staff I believe will be a night and day change.   Between that and an infusion of talent I expect good times are near.

Edited June 2 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

I started to slip on RonMart at the end 2 seasons ago, but if there was a point that any trace of optimism had slipped away, it was day three of the draft last year. 

 

It was like the "pigs can fly" Simpson episode and that's when Rons pig flew. I capped last seasons ceiling at 10 loses. After the first few games, 7 wins seemed unlikely. 

 

It was great to watch the last of Dans turds flush away forever.

[Skinsinparadise]

28 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I started to slip on RonMart at the end 2 seasons ago, but if there was a point that any trace of optimism had slipped away, it was day three of the draft last year. 

 

It was like the "pigs can fly" Simpson episode and that's when Rons pig flew. I capped last seasons ceiling at 10 loses. After the first few games, 7 wins seemed unlikely. 

 

It was great to watch the last of Dans turds flush away forever.

 

Yeah I think the one thing you and me had in common was we acknowledged he wasn't going for the kill in the first three years but felt he was building up to a cresendo in year 4 but instead of that he crashed and did the off season and season completely half speed.

 

I know some say well he knew he was a lame duck so he acted out the part.  But if so I have even less respect for him because it shows to me a lack of professionalism.  And he did it in a low class way considering his send me my ring rhetoric, doubling down on defending his mistakes, and being the only dude who defended Dan right through the bitter end.

 

I think we get another 3 wins alone from last year based on better coaching.

 

I'd put money that Ron doesn't even get a coordinator job, ditto Del Rio, ditto Bieniemy as to the NFL. 

 

 

 

[Koolblue13]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah I think the one thing you and me had in common was we acknowledged he wasn't going for the kill in the first three years but felt he was building up to a cresendo in year 4 but instead of that he crashed and did the off season and season completely half speed.

 

I know some say well he knew he was a lame duck so he acted out the part.  But if so I have even less respect for him because it shows to me a lack of professionalism.  And he did it in a low class way considering his send me my ring rhetoric, doubling down on defending his mistakes, and being the only dude who defended Dan right through the bitter end.

 

I think we get another 3 wins alone from last year based on better coaching.

 

I'd put money that Ron doesn't even get a coordinator job, ditto Del Rio, ditto Bieniemy as to the NFL. 

 

 

 

We've pretty much been in lock step for the past year + in our opinion about the team I think. I think Del Rio could get another shot, but Ron is done and EB was very exposed.