CommDownMan Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 So, I see some notes that lose and Arizona can't draft ahead of us. This is true, but if they win (and Patriots) we would pick second in every round. Not as big of a deal as the 1st round, but at this point I want it all. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illone Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 2 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said: In a word no Front offices do not and should not select players based on what the other players want. He has played better but if you look at his numbers during this streak they aren't winning because of Justin Fields. Gibbs famously listened to Portis and Moss on the drafting of Sean... I've heard of other cases of this, anecdotally of course, but it seems logical to me that a competent FO would at least pay attention to what the locker room prefers. https://www.quora.com/How-important-is-it-for-NFL-personnel-executives-to-listen-to-players-perspectives-before-making-decisions Not saying I agree with this article, but some valid angles in there. 2 minutes ago, CommDownMan said: So, I see some notes that lose and Arizona can't draft ahead of us. This is true, but if they win (and Patriots) we would pick second in every round. Not as big of a deal as the 1st round, but at this point I want it all. Pats have beat the Jets 16x in a row, or is it 15x... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiscoBob Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 1 hour ago, CapsSkins said: Are you aware Penix has torn his right ACL twice and had two surgeries on his throwing shoulder already? 1 hour ago, ThatNFLChick said: Are you aware that Penix has been healthy and had no issues or injury concerns for 2 years all while playing some very good defenses? Are you both aware of the fact that if you replace the 'x' in his name with 's', then his name is Michael Penis? And, no quarterback named after genitals has ever succeeded in the NFL? 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FootballZombie Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 4 minutes ago, DiscoBob said: And, no quarterback named after genitals has ever succeeded in the NFL? Please tell me there is still hope for my boy outta OU General Booty (Pictured below at a crime scene where the photographer did him dirty w/ the pose suggestion) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapsSkins Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 6 minutes ago, DiscoBob said: Are you both aware of the fact that if you replace the 'x' in his name with 's', then his name is Michael Penis? And, no quarterback named after genitals has ever succeeded in the NFL? Brad Johnson won a Super Bowl! 2 10 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus T Firefly Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 9 minutes ago, DiscoBob said: Are you both aware of the fact that if you replace the 'x' in his name with 's', then his name is Michael Penis? And, no quarterback named after genitals has ever succeeded in the NFL? If it were up to you we'd have never acquired Dave Butz. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 (edited) 14 minutes ago, DiscoBob said: Are you both aware of the fact that if you replace the 'x' in his name with 's', then his name is Michael Penis? And, no quarterback named after genitals has ever succeeded in the NFL? How dare you dishonor the legacy of the late great Bobby Queef! Edited January 4 by mistertim 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyBigBeard Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 48 minutes ago, illone said: Not the worst outcome considering the trade haul: I'm not sold on him at all. Definitely don't want to give up picks for him. He was 7-5 as a starter this year and could of easily been 5-7. All his wins were against non-ranked teams and all his losses were ranked teams. And not to mention Moss (his backup) comes in and plays the bowl game and beats a ranked team and looked phenomenal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapsSkins Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 6 minutes ago, FlyBigBeard said: I'm not sold on him at all. Definitely don't want to give up picks for him. He was 7-5 as a starter this year and could of easily been 5-7. All his wins were against non-ranked teams and all his losses were ranked teams. And not to mention Moss (his backup) comes in and plays the bowl game and beats a ranked team and looked phenomenal. FWIW, Mahomes went 0-12 against ranked opponents in his college career. 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 (edited) Penix would be off the board for me. Not worth it where they are talkkng about drafting him. And certainly not where we will be picking. Edited January 4 by AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWJ Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 8 minutes ago, FlyBigBeard said: I'm not sold on him at all. Definitely don't want to give up picks for him. He was 7-5 as a starter this year and could of easily been 5-7. All his wins were against non-ranked teams and all his losses were ranked teams. And not to mention Moss (his backup) comes in and plays the bowl game and beats a ranked team and looked phenomenal. I agree. You don't give up picks for him. Many will disagree and understandably so. So many variables with all the QBs. Pick your flavor. Right now and as I have been for awhile, 1a is Daniels, 1b is Maye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan66 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 2 hours ago, Stone Cold said: Terry Allen had a nice run with us after his knee was destroyed and replaced twice. Injuries happen. I’d applaud his resilience instead of saying he’s an injury waiting to happen. I mean….every player is They say it has been 2 years since injuries, maybe he came back stronger? Pitchers in baseball can come back better after Tommy John surgery. Teams need to do their homework on him. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyBigBeard Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Just now, CapsSkins said: FWIW, Mahomes went 0-12 against ranked opponents in his college career. That's great. I'm just not sold on him. And what I think doesn't matter, it's just a feeling. I would rather be the one trading down and getting future picks ... Because let's be honest, we need them desperately. And take a guy like Nix or Penix I think they both can be winners in this league Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 12 minutes ago, CapsSkins said: FWIW, Mahomes went 0-12 against ranked opponents in his college career. Mahomes also had some team similarities to Williams. Both of them had mediocre supporting casts and atrocious defenses, which meant they both basically had to play hero ball every single game to even give their teams a chance to win. 9 minutes ago, RWJ said: I agree. You don't give up picks for him. Many will disagree and understandably so. So many variables with all the QBs. Pick your flavor. Right now and as I have been for awhile, 1a is Daniels, 1b is Maye. I slightly disagree. IF he's 100% your guy and you're completely sold on him over the other prospects, you go get him if possible. But if he's not and you have 2 top QBs ranked the same, then just wait and pick whoever doesn't go #1. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan66 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 10 minutes ago, CapsSkins said: FWIW, Mahomes went 0-12 against ranked opponents in his college career. He was not taken 1st over all, or thought of as that either. Just some good scouts doing their job and the hit gold. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatNFLChick Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 14 minutes ago, CapsSkins said: FWIW, Mahomes went 0-12 against ranked opponents in his college career. I get it but definitely don't think we should be looking at exceptions and pretend they are the norm. I see a lot of Mahomes and Allen comparisons for Williams and Maye and I feel like people are setting themselves up for disappointment doing that. Also neither Mahomes nor Allen were even top 5 picks and both either sat for a year (Mahomes) or took years to become good (Allen) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 3 minutes ago, skinsfan66 said: He was not taken 1st over all, or thought of as that either. Just some good scouts doing their job and the hit gold. And we now know why some of that scouting was flawed. Mahomes was knocked for many of the things Williams is knocked for. Too much off schedule, not playing within the system enough, trying to play hero ball, holding on to the ball for too long, inconsistent mechanics, and he was knocked pretty big for being on a losing team as well. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWJ Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 (edited) 11 minutes ago, mistertim said: I slightly disagree. IF he's 100% your guy and you're completely sold on him over the other prospects, you go get him if possible. But if he's not and you have 2 top QBs ranked the same, then just wait and pick whoever doesn't go #1. I somewhat agree with your assessment, MT. We shall find out in about 3 months and 3 weeks or so roughly. 8 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said: I get it but definitely don't think we should be looking at exceptions and pretend they are the norm. I see a lot of Mahomes and Allen comparisons for Williams and Maye and I feel like people are setting themselves up for disappointment doing that. Also neither Mahomes nor Allen were even top 5 picks and both either sat for a year (Mahomes) or took years to become good (Allen) Who do you like at QB, TNC? Edited January 4 by RWJ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapsSkins Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 7 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said: I get it but definitely don't think we should be looking at exceptions and pretend they are the norm. I see a lot of Mahomes and Allen comparisons for Williams and Maye and I feel like people are setting themselves up for disappointment doing that. Also neither Mahomes nor Allen were even top 5 picks and both either sat for a year (Mahomes) or took years to become good (Allen) But what is the takeaway here, that we shouldn't go QB at 2 overall? Consensus common wisdom would be to draft Williams or Maye at 2OA. So if you're advocating to go with the "norm" vs. the unconventional bet, that would be the pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatNFLChick Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 5 minutes ago, RWJ said: I somewhat agree with your assessment, MT. We shall find out in about 3 months and 3 weeks or so roughly. Who do you like at QB, TNC? I don't have a favorite just yet. I think the combine, pro days and Senior Bowl will tell us a lot. Right now I am not very high on Maye but still have a lot of questions about Williams, Daniels, and Penix. I wish there was a Burrow or Luck that could land in our laps and I feel 100% confident about them but I just don't see it in any of these QBs. I also think the GM and HC will tell us a lot. Ben Johnson (who I think will be the Panthers HC) may be looking for a different kind of QB than say Macdonald. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWJ Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 Just now, ThatNFLChick said: I don't have a favorite just yet. I think the combine, pro days and Senior Bowl will tell us a lot. Right now I am not very high on Maye but still have a lot of questions about Williams, Daniels, and Penix. I wish there was a Burrow or Luck that could land in our laps and I feel 100% confident about them but I just don't see it in any of these QBs. I also think the GM and HC will tell us a lot. Ben Johnson (who I think will be the Panthers HC) may be looking for a different kind of QB than say Macdonald. Yes, that is who I am hoping for at HC, MacDonald. But the bigger question is can we have both GM, Hortiz and HC, MacDonald from the same team? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyBigBeard Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 1 minute ago, CapsSkins said: But what is the takeaway here, that we shouldn't go QB at 2 overall? Consensus common wisdom would be to draft Williams or Maye at 2OA. So if you're advocating to go with the "norm" vs. the unconventional bet, that would be the pick. Me personally, I'm just saying don't trade up for a QB. And that I'm not not sold on Williams to be the guy (the superstar) that some people think is going to be. I would stay and see who comes to us at 2 or 3 whichever pick we are. And go from there. Don't get desperate and trade up giveaway picks that we desperately need. If it was me I would go with MH.Jr and if he's not there, trade down and get future picks. Depending on how far we tade back back if in the top ten take Daniels or Bowers and if it's outside the top ten take best player available or offensive lineman and with our first 2nd round pick take Nix or Penix and use the draft picks we received for trading back to fill/fix our glaring holes. And have future picks for next year to set ourselves up nicely. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 11 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said: I don't have a favorite just yet. I think the combine, pro days and Senior Bowl will tell us a lot. Right now I am not very high on Maye but still have a lot of questions about Williams, Daniels, and Penix. I wish there was a Burrow or Luck that could land in our laps and I feel 100% confident about them but I just don't see it in any of these QBs. I also think the GM and HC will tell us a lot. Ben Johnson (who I think will be the Panthers HC) may be looking for a different kind of QB than say Macdonald. The QB prospects like Luck just almost never come along though. Guys with basically zero holes in their game that tick every single box. Even Burrow, as good a prospect as he was, had questions about his game that Luck didn't. Can't wait around for the next Luck. Note that I'm not saying you're advocating we do that, just thinking out loud mostly. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan66 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 21 minutes ago, mistertim said: And we now know why some of that scouting was flawed. Mahomes was knocked for many of the things Williams is knocked for. Too much off schedule, not playing within the system enough, trying to play hero ball, holding on to the ball for too long, inconsistent mechanics, and he was knocked pretty big for being on a losing team as well. It's all about making the right choice, don't listen to the music. Do not get locked down on a few, check them all out and pick the best for the team. Everybody wants the next Mahomes, you can see similarities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatNFLChick Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 20 minutes ago, CapsSkins said: But what is the takeaway here, that we shouldn't go QB at 2 overall? Consensus common wisdom would be to draft Williams or Maye at 2OA. So if you're advocating to go with the "norm" vs. the unconventional bet, that would be the pick. No I am not saying that but you also don't have to take a QB at 2. Maybe they trade down to 5 because someone really wants to get MHJ before the Cardinals and we take Daniels or whomever and get more picks. People always make generalizations about Mahomes or Allen without mentioning Mahomes going to an amazing situation where Alex Smith had repeatedly taken the Chiefs to the playoffs and he sat and watched and learned for a year. Or Allen being so inaccurate coming into the NFL nobody was sure if the Bills would stick with him and him documenting the year plus of work he did to become better. I am saying because the general consensus is that its Williams or Maye at 2 and this board seems married to the idea, doesn't mean it has to be that way or that is how the GM and HC will see it. There is also the combine, pro days, Senior Bowl, interviews, etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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