2024 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[skinsfan66]

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

 

I like Fiske too.  I like that whole Florida State front.  They were dominant.  Fiske reminds me an awful lot of Daron Payne, just doesn't have his same arm length or youth on draft day.  I probably wouldn't draft him for us unless we trade back into the 50s, but I think he's going to be a good NFL player who is better than his likely draft slot.  I think he gets picked in the late second or early third.

 

This IDL class is kind of like the RB class for me.  Thin and a bit old, but the quality of the top five guys in the class is high, and they are going to get under drafted and probably play well as rookies.

He stood out in Senior bowl practices. 

[Skinsinparadise]

47 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

I actually don't dislike that Miller mock for us even though it is disappointing that Paul, McConkey, and Wiggins all go before our picks.  It feels like we're getting BPA value with Braswell and Chop.  I don't think Miller is being that realistic about Braswell's draft range though.  PFF feels closer to being accurate by having him in the 20s.  Braswell's testing numbers are ridiculous and he's probably going to solidify his stock as a first rounder at the combine.  He was #7 on Feldman's freaks list this year and #10 the year before.  He has 33" arms, weighs just under 260, squats over 700 pounds, has almost a 40 inch vert, and apparently hit almost 22 mph on the GPS.  And he plays as a stand up OLB.  He has good film too, he's not a free lancer and does a fantastic job in a traditional edge role in terms of lane/gap integrity.  There isn't a special playmaking spark there with him like with Latu or Verse, but he does make a handful of splashy plays and does a solid job finishing his opportunities.  His floor is super high and he's basically scheme independent.  The only way I see him busting is if he gets hurt.

 

I am just starting to get to watching the edge rushers.  I am a bit more stoked to do it now.   Braswell has really good stats.

 

I digested the other day a longish explanation of Quinn's scheme.   In short, cover 1, man-off coverage.  You need a smart Mike LB with range to help diagnose and cover the flat for screens, etc because that's how offenses tend to try to exploit it.  The corners are aggressive and are trained to jump routes especially on the first level.  And the coverage marries the pass rush.  For example, if they are overloading one side, they anticipate the hot route is on the opposite side and the CB is cued up to jump it.

 

On the D line which is Quinn's niche they move guys around like mad.   Anyone on the D line could drop into coverage. They give the Qbs lots of wild looks -- Parsons lined up in front of the center and safety lined up behind the DT in the A gap on the same play and guess who is coming?  Maybe both?  Maybe just one?  Or maybe they both drop back and the O line slanted to meet that blitz in the A gap gets exploited from another direction that the O line didn't slide protection towards.   Or they'd use Parsons as a decoy and sneak in a blitz from the opposite side. 

 

Other weakeness of the defense is because they are playing man a lot and the CBs jump routes, they can get beat deep.  So playing cover 1, you want a FS with good range.

 

They play more nickle and dime than most teams.  So you need multiple safeties and CBs who can play.

 

Quinn highlights to death guys who can tackle in space.  He stresses that today's offenses rely on YAC and taking advantage of space.  So you need defenders with good closing speed and can tackle in space well.   Ryan Clark who knows Whitt well said he talked to him the other day and Whitt told him he's going to have dudes fly to the ball and hit.

 

In short, Quinn likes to have at least one stud edge.  He talked about it in his opening press conference.  He's helped make no name type of edge rushers into good ones.  That's sort of his superpower.     So I am guessing there will be additions in FA and probably the draft, too.  His defense seems predicated heavily on pressure up front.  And unlike Del Rio-Ron, he doesn't just line these guys up and tell them to beat the O lineman in front of them, they will stunt and move guys around and constantly try to create mismatches.

 

Not that any of that shifts my thinking that much.  I think my main takeways are they will get a Mike LB as we expect.  And add multiple pass rushers.  And the CBs need to be good ball hawks who can play man.  As far as a rangy FS safety, not sure he's on the roster, maybe Forrest.  But I'd get McKinney or someone in FA.  

 

I am guessing Fuller is out.  He's more of a zone CB from what I recall.  It might bode well for Forbes.  I think he can play off-man.  Whitt the new D coordinator is supposedly a coverage-secondary wiz type.  And I saw somewhere his fist three calls were to Allen, Payne and Forbes.

Edited February 7 by Skinsinparadise

[skinsfan66]

D. Walker over Leggett in second rd. at WR.? Walker dropped everything that came to him and did not shake free often. Leggett was not lighting it up but you could tell he was smooth and looked like a NFL WR.  Walker should drop big time. 

[skinny21]

Two guys I could see us taking/rolling the dice on at 40 (maybe a bit earlier than expected?) - Corley and Sanders.  Both good fits for Kingsbury’s O I believe and both positions of need.

[Warhead36]

Don't see us going two Edges in the 2nd. We'll definitely sign at least one in FA. The 2nd round is prime OT spot since there is such strong depth in the draft and not very many good ones in FA.

[gooseneck]

Possible late round pick to round out our running  back room.  

 

 

 

https://www.commercialappeal.com/story/sports/college/memphis-tigers/2024/02/02/shrine-bowl-east-west-blake-watson-memphis-football-ryan-silverfield-tigers-2024-nfl-draft/72450430007/

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Ok, so I've been inspired to check out Chop Robinson. I don't know if his medicals are a concern or what, but he's a verifiable weapon if used correctly.

 

I feel confident he'd be a terrible pick for us and misused if we still had Rivera and Del Rio, but thankfully they're gone. We instead have Dan Quinn, who has had 2 Edge rushers he has done a better than expected job at letting loose. Bruce Irvin and Micah Parsons. Chop Robinson is in that mold, he's someone you need to simplify things for because he's so quick and squirrely for blockers to handle, even run blockers. He's got his own take on how to handle a run block and sometimes it gets him into fantastic position, and others he's out of the play.

 

You don't draft him to be a 265 lb read and react bulldozer like Sweat, Orakpo, Kerrigan, Smith, etc that are big enough to still collapse the pocket if it turns out to not be a run play. You draft him to make use of his first step, his quick feet, his shiftiness, and what can build off of that. His athletic abilities clearly fall off if he doesn't get momentum on his side. That's not laziness, it's just how his skillset works. His body control while moving forward is great. He has at times surprising speed to power conversion. He can use his momentum and get his feet under him to two hand bull the OT. Most speed rushers can't do that, once they've committed to speed they can't convert well.

 

Simplify Robinson's assignments, otherwise he won't be able to use his athleticism. No post-snap reads. Just at the snap, use your explosion. See ball, get ball.

 

He's one of the BPA's in the early 2nd. Unless we get Bryce Huff in FA, who is a slightly worse version of Chop Robinson but has done stuff in the NFL versus a projection to the NFL. Jets are not in cap hell, but they have limited cap space and their 1st rounder last year is also an Edge and needs some playing time.

[Chump Bailey]

33 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

I feel confident he'd be a terrible pick for us and misused if we still had Rivera and Del Rio,

 

Completely agree with you.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

32 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

 

Completely agree with you.

 

If we get Bryce Huff, I'm thinking Robinson is off the board unless he falls to the 3rd. I feel like 2 Edge rushers both with a green light to do what they want at the snap will probably be exploited by better quality teams. Even if those edge rushers get home far more often than Young/Sweat did in 2021.

[Chump Bailey]

10 minutes ago, Always A Commander Never A Captain said:

 

If we get Bryce Huff, I'm thinking Robinson is off the board unless he falls to the 3rd. I feel like 2 Edge rushers both with a green light to do what they want at the snap will probably be exploited by better quality teams. Even if those edge rushers get home far more often than Young/Sweat did in 2021.

 

I'd like us to take a hard look at Texans EDGE Jonathon Greenard or Patriots EDGE Josh Uche too. Marshawn Kneeland is a good draft option IMO. I ranked him pretty high months ago. The Murphy twins out of UCLA are also good options but there are plenty more IMO to consider. 

[Est.1974]

Jonah Elliss looks like a Quinn player.

[DWinzit]

7 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am just starting to get to watching the edge rushers.  I am a bit more stoked to do it now.   Braswell has really good stats.

 

I digested the other day a longish explanation of Quinn's scheme.   In short, cover 1, man-off coverage.  You need a smart Mike LB with range to help diagnose and cover the flat for screens, etc because that's how offenses tend to try to exploit it.  The corners are aggressive and are trained to jump routes especially on the first level.  And the coverage marries the pass rush.  For example, if they are overloading one side, they anticipate the hot route is on the opposite side and the CB is cued up to jump it.

 

On the D line which is Quinn's niche they move guys around like mad.   Anyone on the D line could drop into coverage. They give the Qbs lots of wild looks -- Parsons lined up in front of the center and safety lined up behind the DT in the A gap on the same play and guess who is coming?  Maybe both?  Maybe just one?  Or maybe they both drop back and the O line slanted to meet that blitz in the A gap gets exploited from another direction that the O line didn't slide protection towards.   Or they'd use Parsons as a decoy and sneak in a blitz from the opposite side. 

 

Other weakeness of the defense is because they are playing man a lot and the CBs jump routes, they can get beat deep.  So playing cover 1, you want a FS with good range.

 

They play more nickle and dime than most teams.  So you need multiple safeties and CBs who can play.

 

Quinn highlights to death guys who can tackle in space.  He stresses that today's offenses rely on YAC and taking advantage of space.  So you need defenders with good closing speed and can tackle in space well.   Ryan Clark who knows Whitt well said he talked to him the other day and Whitt told him he's going to have dudes fly to the ball and hit.

 

In short, Quinn likes to have at least one stud edge.  He talked about it in his opening press conference.  He's helped make no name type of edge rushers into good ones.  That's sort of his superpower.     So I am guessing there will be additions in FA and probably the draft, too.  His defense seems predicated heavily on pressure up front.  And unlike Del Rio-Ron, he doesn't just line these guys up and tell them to beat the O lineman in front of them, they will stunt and move guys around and constantly try to create mismatches.

 

Not that any of that shifts my thinking that much.  I think my main takeways are they will get a Mike LB as we expect.  And add multiple pass rushers.  And the CBs need to be good ball hawks who can play man.  As far as a rangy FS safety, not sure he's on the roster, maybe Forrest.  But I'd get McKinney or someone in FA.  

 

I am guessing Fuller is out.  He's more of a zone CB from what I recall.  It might bode well for Forbes.  I think he can play off-man.  Whitt the new D coordinator is supposedly a coverage-secondary wiz type.  And I saw somewhere his fist three calls were to Allen, Payne and Forbes.

This is a great breakdown, thanks so much for the post.

 

Feels like Quan and Forbes can thrive in the system. Also enforces that we need at least one quality Edge, LB and at least 2 DB's. Of course that's the minimum but I figure there will be turnover to backfield group and hoping it also improves the Special Teams Unit

[Going Commando]

Watching Kingsley Suamataia because he ranked so high on the freaks list.  He has bad hands.  Between him, Alt, Fautanu, and Guyton, it's like the draftnik world has a boner for OTs with terrible hands this year.  It's a position where you do like 80% of your winning in an NFL passing game off the work you do with your hands because the initial set gets countered in about half a second by NFL caliber rushers.  Guys with an awful punch and weak hands who can't hold their blocks in college will not have an easier time with this in the NFL.  But you can be a total plodder with marginal lateral speed and play for a decade + like Whitworth if you have great hands.

 

I feel like this OT class is wildly overrated.  Alt, Guyton, Fautanu, and Suamataia are the best athletes in the OT class, and each kind of suck in Pass Pro.  Mims is a hulk with huge upside but barely played in college.  Fashanu can't run block.  Morgan is good, but has a length issue and an ACL tear in his injury history.  Amegadjie didn't play against anyone good.  Barton is projected to move inside, which I don't get BTW.  Why would a good LT get moved to Center in the NFL?

 

The only guys I feel good about are Fuaga, Fashanu, Latham, Paul, and maybe Morgan, Barton, and Amegadjie.  If Barton, Fautanu, and Morgan all get kicked inside to guard, then that would pretty much solidify for me that the IOL class is way better than the tackle class this year.

 

[DWinzit]

24 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

Watching Kingsley Suamataia because he ranked so high on the freaks list.  He has bad hands.  Between him, Alt, Fautanu, and Guyton, it's like the draftnik world has a boner for OTs with terrible hands this year.  It's a position where you do like 80% of your winning in an NFL passing game off the work you do with your hands because the initial set gets countered in about half a second by NFL caliber rushers.  Guys with an awful punch and weak hands who can't hold their blocks in college will not have an easier time with this in the NFL.  But you can be a total plodder with marginal lateral speed and play for a decade + like Whitworth if you have great hands.

 

I feel like this OT class is wildly overrated.  Alt, Guyton, Fautanu, and Suamataia are the best athletes in the OT class, and each kind of suck in Pass Pro.  Mims is a hulk with huge upside but barely played in college.  Fashanu can't run block.  Morgan is good, but has a length issue and an ACL tear in his injury history.  Amegadjie didn't play against anyone good.  Barton is projected to move inside, which I don't get BTW.  Why would a good LT get moved to Center in the NFL?

 

The only guys I feel good about are Fuaga, Fashanu, Latham, Paul, and maybe Morgan, Barton, and Amegadjie.  If Barton, Fautanu, and Morgan all get kicked inside to guard, then that would pretty much solidify for me that the IOL class is way better than the tackle class this year.

 

Is it possible that many coaches just don't teach or understand how to teach the hand work? Or don't understand its importance perhaps

 

It has baffled me that so many college players have bad hands and your post shows how many of those guys are hurting their draft status and wallets due to their hands. 

 

There were articles in the past of different OL and DL players that got involved in martial arts in order to speed and strengthen their hand and foot work. Perhaps college teams should bring in a martial arts guy to work a little with their linemen.

 

Also shows there is a much smaller number of good OT then people think. I believe we need to get one of them

Edited February 8 by DWinzit

[Going Commando]

16 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Is it possible that many coaches just don't teach or understand how to teach the hand work? Or don't understand its importance perhaps

 

It has baffled me that so many college players have bad hands and your post shows how many of those guys are hurting their draft status and wallets due to their hands. 

 

There were articles in the past of different OL and DL players that got involved in martial arts in order to speed and strengthen their hand and foot work. Perhaps college teams should bring in a martial arts guy to work a little with their linemen.

 

Also shows there is a much smaller number of good OT then people think. I believe we need to get one of them

 

I think it's about guys like Suamataia, Alt, and Guyton being such good athletes that they never had to really develop hand techniques to stay in front of match ups before.  At the lower levels of the sport there are a lot of edges who are smaller guys that aren't that strong or skilled, they're just quick and lanky.  So stopping them isn't that hard if you are big and fast.

 

Alt is different than the others, he is a technician.  He's just weak and the leverage is rough for him because he's tall without length.

 

But for the guys who aren't technicians like Guyton, kind of reminds me of Jaelyn Duncan in how it looks like he's mentally counting his steps/focus on the set because it's not automatic to him.  And so he doesn't marry the footwork to the hands like someone whose Pass Pro is totally ingrained.

 

I also think softness is a factor.  Developing accuracy on your punches is difficult, technical work.  Sustaining blocks in pass pro with your hands is really hard and takes a lot of physicality.  Also, foot speed develops faster on athletes than high level upper body strength, so some of these guys might still change quite a bit as they enter their mid 20s.  I just don't like betting on those kinds of transformations.  Not in the top 50 anyway.  Players like Suamataia and Guyton should be about fourth round picks.

[DWinzit]

7 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

I think it's about guys like Suamataia, Alt, and Guyton being such good athletes that they never had to really develop hand techniques to stay in front of match ups before.  At the lower levels of the sport there are a lot of edges who are smaller guys that aren't that strong or skilled, they're just quick and lanky.  So stopping them isn't that hard if you are big and fast.

 

Alt is different than the others, he is a technician.  He's just weak and the leverage is rough for him because he's tall without length.

 

But for the guys who aren't technicians like Guyton, kind of reminds me of Jaelyn Duncan in how it looks like he's mentally counting his steps/focus on the set because it's not automatic to him.  And so he doesn't marry the footwork to the hands like someone whose Pass Pro is totally ingrained.

 

I also think softness is a factor.  Developing accuracy on your punches is difficult, technical work.  Sustaining blocks in pass pro with your hands is really hard and takes a lot of physicality.  Also, foot speed develops faster on athletes than high level upper body strength, so some of these guys might still change quite a bit as they enter their mid 20s.  I just don't like betting on those kinds of transformations.  Not in the top 50 anyway.  Players like Suamataia and Guyton should be about fourth round picks.

Good breakdown on some of the different situations. I know some players will just never have the athleticism to dramatically improve their footwork regardless of coaching. It seems like many could and I am sure a few will improve through pro coaching and experience but it is a real crap shoot as to who.

 

The hand work definitely ties to a players aggressiveness. There is only so much some of these kids will change if they do not have at least some of this trait. And yes, leverage comes into play with certain players. It just seems that so many have at least some leverage on their side and show some aggressiveness but can't get the handwork. To me it seems like the most astonishing part of some of these players just not getting.

[Chump Bailey]

Mike Renner's Senior Bowl Risers & Fallers

LB, CB, Safety

 

Biggest Risers:

 

Edefuan Ulofoshio LB Washington *Not tooting my horn here (much , but Edefuan is someone I've mentioned often over the past several years of draft debate. Injuries have hurt his stock.

 

Trevon Wallace LB Kentucky *Another LB I touted months ago 

 

Quinyon Mitchell Toledo 

 

Jarvis Brownlee CB Louisville 

 

Elijah Jones CB Boston College *Another I liked and ranked highly

 

Cole Bishop Utah Safety *My #4 overall FS 

 

Honorable mentions: Tykee Smith Georgia Safety *My #7 ranked FS 

 

*Not impressed with Bullard or Kinchens reps at the Senior Bowl

 

Biggest Fallers:

 

Kalen King CB Penn State

Jaylin Simpson Safety Auburn 

[Warhead36]

I will say in Alt and Fashanu’s defense theyre both only 20 years old. Plenty of time to grow and develop into studs.

 

My T draft crash is Fauga but theres no chance he falls into even the 20s now. Ive seen him mocked as high as 10 to the Jets. 
 

im good taking the best T or C available at 36. 

[RWJ]

25 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I will say in Alt and Fashanu’s defense theyre both only 20 years old. Plenty of time to grow and develop into studs.

 

My T draft crash is Fauga but theres no chance he falls into even the 20s now. Ive seen him mocked as high as 10 to the Jets. 
 

im good taking the best T or C available at 36. 

Powers-Johnson at #36, if he's there as OC/OG and then Tyler Guyton at #40.  We went down the Paul road with older brother and I have reservations about Patrick at LT.  Small hands bother me and speed rushers too.  Guyton more gifted even though he plays RT and has some issues that can be worked out.  Could transition to LT in time.  

[Warhead36]

18 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Powers-Johnson at #36, if he's there as OC/OG and then Tyler Guyton at #40.  We went down the Paul road with older brother and I have reservations about Patrick at LT.  Small hands bother me and speed rushers too.  Guyton more gifted even though he plays RT and has some issues that can be worked out.  Could transition to LT in time.  

I love JPJ but he won't fall to 36. Apparently he killed it at the Senior Bowl and teams are valuing Cs more and more. Some team will take him in the 1st. Could see him going to Miami, Philly, Dallas(all will have holes at C with veterans leaving via FA or retiring).

 

I wouldn't pass on Patrick just because his brother sucks. But I don't know enough about him one way or another. I'm perfectly fine taking a better RT prospect than a LT one if that's the best that's available. But the 2nd round just screams value OL pick to me.

[ThatNFLChick]

 

[RWJ]

8 minutes ago, ThatNFLChick said:

 

Gronk is a big man, compared to any other TE I've ever seen!  

[mhd24]

1 hour ago, Warhead36 said:

I love JPJ but he won't fall to 36. Apparently he killed it at the Senior Bowl and teams are valuing Cs more and more. Some team will take him in the 1st. Could see him going to Miami, Philly, Dallas(all will have holes at C with veterans leaving via FA or retiring).

 

I wouldn't pass on Patrick just because his brother sucks. But I don't know enough about him one way or another. I'm perfectly fine taking a better RT prospect than a LT one if that's the best that's available. But the 2nd round just screams value OL pick to me.

 

Philly won't take him.  They have Cam Jurgens to slide over to C for Kelce.

[Going Commando]

Bowers looks old for a 21 year old.

I've seen him at the podium for team pressers wearing like a Georgia polo shirt and he looks like an assistant coach. In that picture, it's hard to tell if he's older or younger than Gronk.  Weird how much hair and posture can age you.  So many fast as hell football players are duck footed like that, and he doesn't have a good body like a typical NFL star TE.

[Est.1974]

Lots of focus on OL round 2 but a combination of Jonah Elliss and Kam Kinchen is looking a tempting duo to me.