method man Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said: Hudson blows. I hope he doesn't make the 53. I would take him over Mayo, Eifler and the other trash at LB 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWinzit Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 9 minutes ago, method man said: I would take him over Mayo, Eifler and the other trash at LB Yeah, I find the backers other than Davis, Hudson and Mayo virtual unkowns...even Barton to some extent. Wasn't White the JAG they liked last year then got hurt? Who BTW is another of those smallish LBs listed at 6' 228 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method man Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 2 minutes ago, DWinzit said: Yeah, I find the backers other than Davis, Hudson and Mayo virtual unkowns...even Barton to some extent. Wasn't White the JAG they liked last year then got hurt? Who BTW is another of those smallish LBs listed at 6' 228 Yep, the guy from ND. It is easier to have smaller LBs when you a run a 4-3 as you are protected by 4 down linemen any given day. The king size LBs are more applicable to a 3-4. I remember all the beat guys were adamant a couple years ago that we would never draft Zaven Collins had he made it to our spot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWinzit Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 1 minute ago, method man said: Yep, the guy from ND. It is easier to have smaller LBs when you a run a 4-3 as you are protected by 4 down linemen any given day. The king size LBs are more applicable to a 3-4. I remember all the beat guys were adamant a couple years ago that we would never draft Zaven Collins had he made it to our spot Yeah, the thing with Zaven was that his speed was heavily hyped, but that didn't translate well with a timer lol. With using 2 LB's as much as we do, they seemed focus on the quickness factor so smaller isn't horrible there, accept many smaller dudes can't take on tackles as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 56 minutes ago, method man said: I would take him over Mayo, Eifler and the other trash at LB Like sifting through the trash for a half eaten hot dog when you're in the mood for a burger. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 27 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said: Like sifting through the trash for a half eaten hot dog when you're in the mood for a burger. Be worse if it was vegan too 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 1 minute ago, Est.1974 said: Be worse if it was vegan too Taste the same, but probably wouldn't still be decomposing 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingdaddy Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 23 hours ago, MartinC said: I think linebacker is an evolving position in the NFL. Teams are looking for smaller lighter backers who have the speed to run sideline to sideline and can carry a back or TE - or even slot receiver - in man/zone match down a seam. To be paid (or drafted highly) a backer needs to be a 3 down player and that means coverage ability is as important (or even more important) than ability to fill a hole and thump. Teams are looking for these kinds of backers - guys with speed and athleticism who can play and run in space not 'just' fight off a guard and fill in a phone box. Also factor in that teams are in nickel as base - over 60% of snaps there will only be 2 backers in the field and increasingly only 1 as a backer is replaced by a big safety (the Buffalo nickel). So teams just need less starting calibre backers - they are just not on the field as much. To Davis he ran a 4.4 and 4.37 40. He had the highest overall athleticism score for a linebacker at the NFL combine his year. He is elite from a physical perspective and fits the mold of what NFL teams are looking for from a backer physically. However he had only started 11 games at backer in College. We drafted him based on his elite traits but given his lack of experience it was always going to take time with him - he is still scratching the surface of his potential. Good info, this is why I wonder why they didn't pair him with a solid vet to teach him the NFL game. Did they think they had that in Bostic or Holcomb? Who knows? Maybe this is the year where everything comes together on defense...Chase, Davis and the other #1 picks all gel and play like they should as a unit. To my count we have Allen, Payne, Young, Sweat, Davis and now Forbes as 1st round picks on defense and that doesn't include Curl who plays like a 1st round pick. That's a stacked unit that should be dominant. JDR better have this defense in the top 3 this year. We should be neck and neck with the NYJ and SF for best defenses in all of football. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 1 hour ago, MrJL said: I'm pretty sure nickel is defined as 5 Db, so unless our 5 man line is mostly in when we're also playing 5 DB we kind of have to have 2 LB The point is how nickel is defined is changing. Defenses have to match up with offenses - football is about matchups. Move TEs who are really big slot receivers and running backs with speed and hands become a match up problem in nickel against a linebacker. You can isolate that match up and it becomes like taking candy from a baby. So what NFL teams are looking for from a backer is changing - they are becoming lighter, faster and with more emphasis on their ability in coverage compared to their ability to fill a hole and thump in the run game (which is not saying they don't have to be able to play the run). So backers are starting to evolve to look more like big safeties. Lots of backers are now under 230 and some are 220 ish. Now finding backers who are 220 can run a 4.4 and cover is not easy so in obvious passing situations or where there is a matchup issue some teams in whats still a nickel look are on some snaps (its certainly not all snaps) replacing that second backer with an extra safety. Its not dime - because in dime that extra DB is more likely to be a corner type player not a safety. Traditional definitions of defensive personnel are starting ti get blurry as defense try to get better match ups against offense personnel groupings, in a league where rules make passing the primary way offenses attack defenses, with more and more read option and mobile QBs. The games evolving. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 2 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said: Taste the same, but probably wouldn't still be decomposing Yikes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 11 minutes ago, MartinC said: The games evolving. Safeties use to be smaller that the corners and never did anything except play in the secondary. Then the league filled up with some of the greatest running backs the leagues ever seen and defenses changed. Steve Atwood became the premier strong safety and then the safety position began to change. 5 years ago, everyone played single high safeties and one of the safeties started playing in the middle, behind 3 LBers. Last year and the year before, teams started to resort back to the 2 high safeties because it was too easy to get behind just one safety and there isn't enough single high center fielder types that can handle being alone back there. The game is always evolving. The small LBer tweener who plays slow safety still isn't really that viable in the NFL like it is in college and even if it was, teams need two LBers on the field 90% of the time. If a team just played dime as a bas, you could just run on them all day and they wouldn't be able to stop you. The game routinely changes and it always will. Last year, especially in the playoffs, it was all about the ground game and defense. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 Just now, Koolblue13 said: Safeties use to be smaller that the corners and never did anything except play in the secondary. Then the league filled up with some of the greatest running backs the leagues ever seen and defenses changed. Steve Atwood became the premier strong safety and then the safety position began to change. 5 years ago, everyone played single high safeties and one of the safeties started playing in the middle, behind 3 LBers. Last year and the year before, teams started to resort back to the 2 high safeties because it was too easy to get behind just one safety and there isn't enough single high center fielder types that can handle being alone back there. The game is always evolving. The small LBer tweener who plays slow safety still isn't really that viable in the NFL like it is in college and even if it was, teams need two LBers on the field 90% of the time. If a team just played dime as a bas, you could just run on them all day and they wouldn't be able to stop you. The game routinely changes and it always will. Last year, especially in the playoffs, it was all about the ground game and defense. I have thought that at some point a team is just going to load up and play smash mouth against all these lighter fronts. We might see a swing back. The Titans kind of did that - problem is that gets you only so far. When you come up against an elite QB and passing attack the running team just can’t keep up. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 1 minute ago, MartinC said: I have thought that at some point a team is just going to load up and play smash mouth against all these lighter fronts. We might see a swing back. The Titans kind of did that - problem is that gets you only so far. When you come up against an elite QB and passing attack the running team just can’t keep up. The number one running team almost won the superbowl last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rook Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 28 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said: The number one running team almost won the superbowl last year. And I think they will have a real good chance to "almost" again. The Rook 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said: The number one running team almost won the superbowl last year. Almost ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 19 minutes ago, MartinC said: Almost ... Yes. They went to the superbowl and the offense was great all day. They lost because their defense sucked in the second half. Unless you are inferring that the team that loses the superbowl isn't the 31rst best team somehow. Most of the top running teams went to the playoffs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rook Posted June 8, 2023 Share Posted June 8, 2023 3 hours ago, Koolblue13 said: Unless you are inferring that the team that loses the superbowl isn't the 31rst best team somehow. "31rst best"? Next to last? Do you mean 2nd best? Actually, while the team that loses the SB typically has had a good year, it is just another team whose season ended with a loss. Every SB the Redskins lost, I never thought "At least they were Second Best." I just thought that they had lost. The Rook 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrJL Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 nfc champion gets a trophy too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 1 hour ago, The Rook said: "31rst best"? Next to last? Do you mean 2nd best? Actually, while the team that loses the SB typically has had a good year, it is just another team whose season ended with a loss. Every SB the Redskins lost, I never thought "At least they were Second Best." I just thought that they had lost. The Rook I'm sure you understand what it means in context to the conversation we were having. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rook Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 36 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said: I'm sure you understand what it means in context to the conversation we were having. Heck, I'm still not sure what you meant. You didn't answer my questions. Are you saying you misspoke or are you saying there is only one SB winner and 31 losers? Philly was the NFC champions, but they were just one of three teams to go 2-1 in post-season. As I said, I think they have a damn good chance to be "almost" again - they have an easier path through the NFC. The Rook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always A Commander Never A Captain Posted June 9, 2023 Share Posted June 9, 2023 18 hours ago, Koolblue13 said: Yes. They went to the superbowl and the offense was great all day. They lost because their defense sucked in the second half. Unless you are inferring that the team that loses the superbowl isn't the 31rst best team somehow. Most of the top running teams went to the playoffs. Their offense wasn't great all day. The Eagles passing offense was great. Hurts scrambling and fighting for short yardage was great. The actual normal run game however was abysmal. There's a big difference between a run attack powered by a QB and powered by the RB's. That's what the Eagles RB's did on the ground. Combined for 2.65 yards per carry and 0 TD's. Not being used in short yardage situations either as the QB was better doing that. There's a large difference between having a QB who runs and a run game. Back during Lamar Jackson's first playoff appearance, he got shut down because the Chargers rolled out speed on defense. That means no linebackers and lots of extra safeties. They literally ran a 4-0-7 defense. Check out these snap amounts. See how little the LB's got? See how many DB's got all the snaps? So against this super light defense on the field, the Ravens normal run game was bad. Compare this to an actual great run game in recent playoff history, let's use the Titans with Derrick Henry. The culprit for why they did not make the Super Bowl is that Ryan Tannehill blows. That run game was good enough to go on a deeper playoff run, but Tannehill stunk. Here's a fun Tannehill is an awful QB bouyed by Derrick Henry stat...in Tannehill's 5 playoff games, he's 2-0 when he has to throw the ball 15 times or less. But 0-3 when he has to throw it more than 15 times. So it's possible, but you need a rare RB to do it, and you need a QB who would be decent without that RB on the field. People like to think a dominant run game led by a QB or by a RB is the same thing. It's not. A dominant rushing QB will make, in the regular season at least, the normal run game look much better than they are. Likewise a dominant run game led by a RB will make the normal passing game, in the regular season at least, look much better than it is. Miles Sanders had with the Super Bowl losers, on paper at least, a really good regular season. But it was widely known during the early period of the off-season that the Eagles had no intention of bringing Sanders back, even if Sanders would take a discount. They instead signed a RB and traded for another in the off-season. That's not a sign that their GM, Howie Roseman, thought it was a dominant run game led by both a QB and a RB. It sounds like they thought Hurts made the RB's look much better than they are. P.S. It's a pity we never got to see prime Christian McCaffrey and prime Cam Newton together. That would have been an actual dominant run game that defenses couldn't sell out to stop in the playoffs. 6 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markmills67 Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 With this possibly being Rivera's win or your done season, shouldn't he at least be looking at Dalvin Cook to add to our RB group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 2 hours ago, markmills67 said: With this possibly being Rivera's win or your done season, shouldn't he at least be looking at Dalvin Cook to add to our RB group. Only if he can play left guard. Seriously running back is not a need - that’s not saying Cook is not a better back than anyone we have, but when you factor in the contract he will want that cap space can be better invested in other areas. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 On 6/8/2023 at 11:12 AM, method man said: I would take him over Mayo, Eifler and the other trash at LB I meant to ask you, but what makes you think Eifler is trash? Not that I think you’re wrong, but all I’ve heard is he’s athletic, the staff liked him last year, and of course he’s only in his 2nd year… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted June 14, 2023 Share Posted June 14, 2023 16 minutes ago, skinny21 said: I meant to ask you, but what makes you think Eifler is trash? Not that I think you’re wrong, but all I’ve heard is he’s athletic, the staff liked him last year, and of course he’s only in his 2nd year… These guys like Eifer and Hudson just hang around the bottom of the roster with no real great talent in front of them and can't break through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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