Next Day Thread: Giants I: Keep it Medium

[NeverSurrender]

Just now, KDawg said:

 

If Heinicke wasn't on the team Howell would have been playing and could be doing some of the same things. But then again, every party saying, "Wentz would/wouldn't have done this..." or "Heinicke is the only reason this..." have all completely written off Howell... Which is interesting.

 

I still don't know if Howell WOULD have been able to replicate the Heinicke results. Or if Wentz could if this was the way it was when he was the QB. But I know Heinicke has. For whatever kind of witchcraft that is being used, he has done it. And no one can take that away from him. 

Im digging Howell, I just dont really want to put a rookie behind this O-line.  What I like is that Howell is watching how TH carries himself and how the team rallies around him.  If that is something he can bring heading into next year then it could be huge for us.  Putting Howell in before he is ready would be awful because if he fails hard then next year what do you do?  

Haven't written Howell off just think it wouldn't be a good idea to put him behind this line.  As I have said before, the ball is on the tee for him next year.  He can come in and straight up win the job and that would be the best scenario for us. Kind of like Mahomes did in KC. 

[KDawg]

Just now, NeverSurrender said:

Im digging Howell, I just dont really want to put a rookie behind this O-line.  What I like is that Howell is watching how TH carries himself and how the team rallies around him.  If that is something he can bring heading into next year then it could be huge for us.  Putting Howell in before he is ready would be awful because if he fails hard then next year what do you do?  

Haven't written Howell off just think it wouldn't be a good idea to put him behind this line.  As I have said before, the ball is on the tee for him next year.  He can come in and straight up win the job and that would be the best scenario for us. Kind of like Mahomes did in KC. 

 

Are you aware that Howell's OL in his senior season made this OL look like all-pros?

 

Guy has nothing but experience dealing with a bad OL. In fact, most of the reason he fell was because he had to totally change his game because the OL was so bad. So instead of throwing for ridiculous yards and TDs he changed up and nearly rushed for 1k + had a decent season in the air. 

 

If TH wasn't here Howell would be in and we'd be seeing what he has.

 

That's not the situation. Heinicke is here. Howell sits and waits and pays attention while Heinicke has the reigns. 

[mhd24]

I’d play Howell in specific instances as a read option qb.  At least he will run (unlike Taylor)

[NeverSurrender]

5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Are you aware that Howell's OL in his senior season made this OL look like all-pros?

 

Guy has nothing but experience dealing with a bad OL. In fact, most of the reason he fell was because he had to totally change his game because the OL was so bad. So instead of throwing for ridiculous yards and TDs he changed up and nearly rushed for 1k + had a decent season in the air. 

 

If TH wasn't here Howell would be in and we'd be seeing what he has.

 

That's not the situation. Heinicke is here. Howell sits and waits and pays attention while Heinicke has the reigns. 

Im very aware that Howell is mobile and I know what he did in college.  there are other factors here though.

This is his first year in the NFL, there is an adjustment as well as familiarity with the playbook. These are things that have to be right in order to have some success.  

Im not saying that Howell wouldn't be good, but I think its better to give the kid the best shot possible to succeed, and I think that is sitting behind TH and learning everything he can unless there's an emergency.  

What would be great is if he had to come in for a final drive or something similar the what Kirk did against the Ravens in RG3s rookie year.  

[Chump Bailey]

18 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

Not looking great for next year either. 

 

I am in the Howell club personally and I do believe he has a much better than average shot at being the guy for us. I thought he was an absolute steal for us and we need to see him get some play if the season goes awry. I also really think this offense could benefit by going after Terrace Marshall Jr. in the offseason - just random thought

Edited December 7, 2022 by Chump Bailey

[Koolblue13]

21 minutes ago, NeverSurrender said:

Well said but there were a lot of people here saying that TH shouldn't even be on an NFL roster and they clearly didn't want him on ours and to be honest, our season would have been over weeks ago if TH was not on this team. I wish Wentz had looked like the former MVP, would have loved it if he dominated but sadly it didn't happen and it was ugly.  We might just only be a few pieces away from a defense like the 2000 ravens though, a few tweaks here or there and Ray Lewis ofc and were good to go. 

You are completely ignoring that around the same time as Heini started winning, the Oline got some pieces back, BRob came back and WJIII was benched. You ignore everything else on the 53 and throw your boy on a cross and take offense to everything.

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, NeverSurrender said:

Im very aware that Howell is mobile and I know what he did in college.  there are other factors here though.

This is his first year in the NFL, there is an adjustment as well as familiarity with the playbook. These are things that have to be right in order to have some success.  

Im not saying that Howell wouldn't be good, but I think its better to give the kid the best shot possible to succeed, and I think that is sitting behind TH and learning everything he can unless there's an emergency.  

What would be great is if he had to come in for a final drive or something similar the what Kirk did against the Ravens in RG3s rookie year.  

 

And you could be right. But do you know that in most cases 5th round rookie QBs who don't see the field generally are replaced relatively quickly? If we sign another QB (draft or FA) and keep Heinicke next season, Howell is pretty much DOA in DC. He could wind up being the exception and not the rule, sure. But generally he would be replaced because he didn't get the chance due to organizations kid gloving them and then never letting the development materialize due to the way quarterback cycles are in the NFL. 

[NeverSurrender]

Just now, Koolblue13 said:

You are completely ignoring that around the same time as Heini started winning, the Oline got some pieces back, BRob came back and WJIII was benched. You ignore everything else on the 53 and throw your boy on a cross and take offense to everything.

No I don't,  you just read 1 post.  I have posted numerous times about the O-line.  They are not good, they haven't played "good" all season. The position was neglected in the offseason  and were paying the price now.  They have played below average all season with Wentz and TH.  They get 0 push in the run game, its literally Brob and Gibson making the run game happen.  

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

 

And you could be right. But do you know that in most cases 5th round rookie QBs who don't see the field generally are replaced relatively quickly? If we sign another QB (draft or FA) and keep Heinicke next season, Howell is pretty much DOA in DC. He could wind up being the exception and not the rule, sure. But generally he would be replaced because he didn't get the chance due to organizations kid gloving them and then never letting the development materialize due to the way quarterback cycles are in the NFL. 

That may be the case but I would hardly consider sitting a 5th round QB for this first year "kid gloving" its called, development.  All he needs to do is live in the playbook and come in next year, make the calls with confidence, read the defense and find the open man.  If he does that, then he beats TH purely on talent.  He can win the job in training camp.  But we do need to bring someone in to compete, not a 28 million dollar guy but a team guy that's good to have in the locker room. 

[KDawg]

10 minutes ago, NeverSurrender said:

No I don't,  you just read 1 post.  I have posted numerous times about the O-line.  They are not good, they haven't played "good" all season. The position was neglected in the offseason  and were paying the price now.  They have played below average all season with Wentz and TH.  They get 0 push in the run game, its literally Brob and Gibson making the run game happen.  

That may be the case but I would hardly consider sitting a 5th round QB for this first year "kid gloving" its called, development.  All he needs to do is live in the playbook and come in next year, make the calls with confidence, read the defense and find the open man.  If he does that, then he beats TH purely on talent.  He can win the job in training camp.  But we do need to bring someone in to compete, not a 28 million dollar guy but a team guy that's good to have in the locker room. 

It’s kid gloving. His draft stock fell because of his situation. The year before he would have been considered a high end pick. 
 

The point being he doesn’t get the chance to beat out TH if his reps consist of practice squad and 2nd/third team reps. 
 

Just the way the NFL works.

[NeverSurrender]

Just now, KDawg said:

It’s kid gloving. His draft stock fell because of his situation. The year before he would have been considered a high end pick. 
 

The point being he doesn’t get the chance to beat out TH if his reps consist of practice squad and 2nd/third team reps. 
 

Just the way the NFL works.

Whos to say TH is named the starter in the offseason?  Im pretty sure there will be open competition and Howell will get a good look.  With the 1s,  Can you tell me a team that started a 5th round QB in their first game?

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, NeverSurrender said:

Whos to say TH is named the starter in the offseason?  Im pretty sure there will be open competition and Howell will get a good look.  With the 1s,  Can you tell me a team that started a 5th round QB in their first game?

He won’t be named the starter outright until they run out of options. But if Rivera is the HC and Turner the OC you can expect he will be the 2 almost without question. So the question is: Do they find someone they like as the 1 or is Heinicke the default 1 and Howell the 2? 
 

Going to be interesting. 

[NeverSurrender]

5 minutes ago, KDawg said:

He won’t be named the starter outright until they run out of options. But if Rivera is the HC and Turner the OC you can expect he will be the 2 almost without question. So the question is: Do they find someone they like as the 1 or is Heinicke the default 1 and Howell the 2? 
 

Going to be interesting. 

Im ok with TH being the backup.  but I would be willing to bet they have an open competition for QB1.  This should mean that Howell gets plenty of reps with the 1s.  He has probably got some reps with them in the last few weeks being the back up. Hopefully he has made the most of it. 

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, NeverSurrender said:

Im ok with TH being the backup.  but I would be willing to bet they have an open competition for QB1.  This should mean that Howell gets plenty of reps with the 1s.  He has probably got some reps with them in the last few weeks being the back up. Hopefully he has made the most of it. 

As long as they don't find someone else to bring in, yes.

 

I have a (maybe bad? Not sure, haven't watched him close enough yet) feeling they are going to target Anthony Richardson in the mid first. 

[NeverSurrender]

Just now, KDawg said:

As long as they don't find someone else to bring in, yes.

 

I have a (maybe bad? Not sure, haven't watched him close enough yet) feeling they are going to target Anthony Richardson in the mid first. 

I think bringing in someone is a good idea.  We need options and competition. Idk about Richardson, but BPA would be fine in the first.  

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, NeverSurrender said:

I think bringing in someone is a good idea.  We need options and competition. Idk about Richardson, but BPA would be fine in the first.  

You're missing the point like it's a Nolan Ryan fastball.

 

If they bring someone in, Howell is toast.

 

Though, I'd hope if they bring someone in it's Heinicke vs. Howell. But Turner/Rivera won't turn on Heinicke. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I really don't get people who are pining for Howell at the moment.  

[shemp nixon]

1 minute ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

I really don't get people who are pining for Howell at the moment.  

We would simply like to see what we have in Howell before we expend capital on someone new. Also, no more QB's with obvious accuracy issues. If you can't hit your target, I don't care how well you run. 

[KDawg]

5 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

I really don't get people who are pining for Howell at the moment.  

 

Who is pining for Howell?

 

If you mean me, I'll wait for proof of that statement. 

[Skinsfan1311]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I rewatched some of the game.  I love Robinson but that play early in the game where he ran out of bounds a couple of yards from the end zone when if he just darted right would have been an easy TD looked even more brutally bad on replay than it did in real time.  Wonder what the heck he was thinking?  That was worse than even the Desean Jackson run of bounds play in the playoff game, at least in that one there was a defender bearing down on him where he might take a hit.  With Robinson I assume it was a brain fart because he doesn't seem the type that is afraid of contact.  That was the game.  That drive ended in a field goal. 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Stone Cold said:

Haven’t rewatched the game but that play did stand out to me in real time.  Must’ve been a brain fart bc if he’s aware, a slight move and his momentum carry’s him in for the td 

 

2 hours ago, zCommander said:

 

Here is another play in OT when he should have kept on running to his left and would have gotten more yards and a good position to at least kick a FG but instead he goes back to the middle.  Another mental mistake here. 

 

 

 

He's still a rookie 😉 and is going to make rookie mistakes.  

I'm sure that he took some **** after watching the film.

[Zim489]

15 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

I really don't get people who are pining for Howell at the moment.  

Because people are tired of watching one of the worst QBs in the league play. Couple that about wanting to find out anything about a possible future option before they go to the pool again for seemingly the 7th year in a row 

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

 

Are you aware that Howell's OL in his senior season made this OL look like all-pros?

 

Guy has nothing but experience dealing with a bad OL. In fact, most of the reason he fell was because he had to totally change his game because the OL was so bad. So instead of throwing for ridiculous yards and TDs he changed up and nearly rushed for 1k + had a decent season in the air. 

 

If TH wasn't here Howell would be in and we'd be seeing what he has.

 

That's not the situation. Heinicke is here. Howell sits and waits and pays attention while Heinicke has the reigns. 

Good point.  Might be a bit different though coming into a wildly different system though, right?

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, skinny21 said:

Good point.  Might be a bit different though coming into a wildly different system though, right?

 

Absolutely. Though the instinct will be there the options to get out of trouble are different. 

[zCommander]

11 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

Because people are tired of watching one of the worst QBs in the league play. Couple that about wanting to find out anything about a possible future option before they go to the pool again for seemingly the 7th year in a row 

 

How many worst QB in the league have their team on brink of a playoff spot? We are winning as a team. That is all that matters to me. As for people who are tried of watching TH play then just shut off your TV and go about your day instead. No one is forcing you to watch him play. 

 

Edited December 7, 2022 by zCommander

[Warhead36]

Howell isn't going to make this offense better. He was a 5th round pick for a reason. Stop this non sense.

[KDawg]

3 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Howell isn't going to make this offense better. He was a 5th round pick for a reason. Stop this non sense.

What non sense? I’m missing something. Who said anything about Howell right now? Little confused. Are people not reading the messages and just responding?