Califan007 The Constipated Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 4 minutes ago, tshile said: At some point, somewhere, decisions have to be made about what’s more important. What over rules what. Things collide. the notion of an unbiased person making maps is hilarious because the requirement of bias is sort of baked into the problem. it’s a question of least worst situation. Unsurprisingly, different people have different opinions about what should overrule what. (Obviously we also have people intentionally screwing thinks up) but everyone also views their preference as what is “fair” and anyone that disagrees as being “biased” Ok, this really proves you didn't read it lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 Also - I’ve listened to people that make maps for these things. The supposedly unbiased and independent people the statistical analysis and political data mining is super neat and awesome but even they are forced to admit that at some point, decisions need to be made about what matters. it will be funny to see what a bunch of random citizens, with no expertise in anything related to this, from Ohio, come up with. Just now, Califan007 The Constipated said: Ok, this really proves you didn't read it lol... So what from the article rules out what I said? because a judge screens them? Because they get to play captain? what part of your article addresses the reality of demographics, how they change, and how it relates to politics and trying to divide people up into neat little blocks that makes everyone happy? or are you just going to recite the Gingles requirements? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: Very true, and this is shockingly similar to what VA is doing as well. It speaks to how hard it is to be "fair" here and need for throwing "neutral" parties in the blender with folks that we know what they think to try to get something "balanced". It just feels inevitable the new generation of AI gets a crack at at least helping with this problem (tracing back to who's providing the prompt and near impossibility of being a true neutral party). the AI still has to make those same decisions. If you look at how it’s done in the past, it’s made some laughably awful maps. It’s getting better. It’s probably safe to say the AI generated stuff has a solid chance of being better than the partisan stuff at this point. I’ve listened to people that are hired as experts to provide analysis of maps for the purpose of fighting for/against these maps. they know how hard it is. They understand you must make decisions about what overrules what. Is it skin color? Is the presence of another minority-majority district of the absence of one? Or is it their politics - or specifically what do you do when the politics don’t match the preconception based on skin color? Get two experts talking about why they each produced different maps for the same area, and it’s fun to watch. and how do you deal with a map that appears wrong because Side A claims these are their people, but last election the people voted for Side B? (This comes up…) it’s a challenging topic. The experts say so. I’ll defer to the experts over people on a forum with zero experience in any of it. Edited August 28, 2023 by tshile 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabbyrwock Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 25 minutes ago, Renegade7 said: just wish we could send a request to MIT or something to help math this **** once and for all (even the best of us can't pretend to be completely unbiased) Been available on git since 2018: https://github.com/mggg/GerryChain 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 1 minute ago, Jabbyrwock said: Been available on git since 2018: https://github.com/mggg/GerryChain There’s also Fairemandering (I think it’s called) and a slew of data scientists that specific work on this and create their own R packages and algorithms for it all it’s a really neat topic. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabbyrwock Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 1 minute ago, tshile said: There’s also Fairemandering (I think it’s called) and a slew of data scientists that specific work on this and create their own R packages and algorithms for it all it’s a really neat topic. Yup. A good resource is the MGGG if anyone is interested. https://mggg.org/ 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 (edited) 49 minutes ago, tshile said: So what from the article rules out what I said? because a judge screens them? Because they get to play captain? what part of your article addresses the reality of demographics, how they change, and how it relates to politics and trying to divide people up into neat little blocks that makes everyone happy? or are you just going to recite the Gingles requirements? I'll take it line by line, cuz I've already been goofing off this morning, what's 5 more minutes lol... 1) "At some point, somewhere, decisions have to be made about what’s more important. What over rules what. Things collide." From the article--here are the things that are absolutely the most important and all must be met for the maps to be approved: geographic contiguity of districts; compliance with federal laws such as the Voting Rights Act; a ban on favoring or disfavoring any party a prohibition on considering any candidate or incumbent's place of residence maps must reflect the state's overall partisan balance as determined by statewide elections over the past 6 years districts that favored either party in those same statewide races would have to come within 3 percentage points of each party's level of statewide support counting people incarcerated in state prisons at their last known address to curtail prison gerrymandering ensuring that racial, ethnic, or language minorities that are politically cohesive and geographically concentrated have the equal ability to elect their preferred candidates preserving "communities of interest" - where residents have "broadly shared interests" based on factors such as "common ethnic, racial, social, cultural, geographic, environmental, socioeconomic, or historic identities or concerns." 2) "the notion of an unbiased person making maps is hilarious because the requirement of bias is sort of baked into the problem." From the article: There's no mention of anyone being "unbiased"...the amendment feels it's found a way, though, of minimizing bias from the commission 15 people make the maps, not "an unbiased person" as you put it The maps would have to go through a series of public hearings around the state, so it's even further removed from "an unbiased person making maps" any Ohio voter would have up to 10 days to challenge it in court, yet another level away from "an unbiased person making maps" the Ohio Supreme Court would have exclusive jurisdiction over whether or not the maps are approved when challenged 3) "Unsurprisingly, different people have different opinions about what should overrule what." See the first set of bullet points lol...it's already in the proposal what should overrule what. 4) "but everyone also views their preference as what is “fair” and anyone that disagrees as being “biased” " Again, "fair" appears to have been defined for the commission...they're not leaving it up to the commission to define it. Their job is to find maps that fit the criteria laid out, not to each give their personal definition of "fair". There's a lot to scrutinize and criticize in this plan, but the way you decided to describe it does not match what's in the article, at all. That's why I kept saying you didn't read the article lol...because the only other choices were: - You did read it but didn't understand it - You did read it and did understand it, but were being disingenuous in describing what it said I chose option 1 lol... EDIT: But I should have gone with option 3, as you'll see from tshile's next two responses to me 👍 Edited August 28, 2023 by Califan007 The Constipated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 I don’t think you understand what I was saying. It’s ok. Keep your faith in the people of Ohio. We’ll be able to discuss the outcome soon enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 Just now, tshile said: I don’t think you understand what I was saying. It’s ok. Keep your faith in the people of Ohio. We’ll be able to discuss the outcome soon enough I see I should have chosen option 3 lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 Just now, Califan007 The Constipated said: I see I should have chosen option 3 lol... Me: there’s lots of choices that have to be made, and people have different views on what is more important you: nah here’s a list and it’s the only one that matters Tell me you don’t know a thing about redistricting without telling me you don’t know a thing about redistricting 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 3 minutes ago, tshile said: Me: there’s lots of choices that have to be made, and people have different views on what is more important you: nah here’s a list and it’s the only one that matters Tell me you don’t know a thing about redistricting without telling me you don’t know a thing about redistricting 👍 Yeah, I definitely should have chosen option 3 lol...I should have remembered your description of what you claimed caused the J6 riots. But I do get how appealing the lazier and far more arrogant approach of "I didn't read it and I don't have to in order to know it's bad" stance you chose must be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 Kari Lake still ‘contemplating’ Senate bid in Arizona Arizona Republican Kari Lake is still “contemplating” a run for the Senate in 2024, the former gubernatorial candidate said Sunday. “There is speculation that you are going to run for the Senate. Are you going to be announcing that soon?” Fox News host Maria Bartiromo asked Lake during an interview on “Sunday Morning Futures With Maria Bartiromo.” “I’m contemplating it,” Lake replied. “I mean, I could go off and go back into media and make a fortune, but this is not the season for that,” the former TV news anchor said. Lake, an outspoken supporter of former President Donald Trump, met with several members of the Senate GOP’s campaign arm in May to talk about possibly running for the seat now held by Kyrsten Sinema, a Democrat-turned-independent. Sinema is running for reelection in 2024, and already faces competition on the left from Rep. Ruben Gallego, who announced his bid in January. Click on the link for the full article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 15 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said: lol...I should have remembered your description of what you claimed caused the J6 riots. Donald trump and his people riling everyone up by lying to them that their country was being stolen from them, and sending them to the Capitol to break in and stop the certification? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, China said: Kari Lake still ‘contemplating’ Senate bid in Arizona Arizona Republican Kari Lake is still “contemplating” a run for the Senate in 2024, the former gubernatorial candidate said Sunday. “There is speculation that you are going to run for the Senate. Are you going to be announcing that soon?” Fox News host Maria Bartiromo asked Lake during an interview on “Sunday Morning Futures With Maria Bartiromo.” “I’m contemplating it,” Lake replied. “I mean, I could go off and go back into media and make a fortune, but this is not the season for that,” the former TV news anchor said. Lake, an outspoken supporter of former President Donald Trump, met with several members of the Senate GOP’s campaign arm in May to talk about possibly running for the seat now held by Kyrsten Sinema, a Democrat-turned-independent. Sinema is running for reelection in 2024, and already faces competition on the left from Rep. Ruben Gallego, who announced his bid in January. Click on the link for the full article "Contemplating" = "Keep sending me money" 1 minute ago, tshile said: Donald trump and his people riling everyone up by lying to them that their country was being stolen from them, and sending them to the Capitol to break in and stop the certification? More like "because he lost the election" lol... Unless that was not you, in which case a thousand pardons. No pun intended. Edited August 28, 2023 by Califan007 The Constipated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 4 minutes ago, Califan007 The Constipated said: More like "because he lost the election" lol... Unless that was not you, in which case a thousand pardons. No pun intended. Yeah you’ve got me confused with someone else. your bias is showing at least you’re consistent in speaking with authority but being wrong 👍 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 1 hour ago, tshile said: Yeah you’ve got me confused with someone else. your bias is showing at least you’re consistent in speaking with authority but being wrong 👍 Ironically enough, while looking to see who did say that, I found this: "...they form their opinions as a knee jerk reaction to a new story. By definition these are uninformed opinions. And because people are so afraid to ever admit they were wrong, they defend those uninformed opinions to death." -tshile Forming an opinion based on an uninformed knee-jerk reaction to a news story they didn't read...and then being too afraid to admit they were wrong, they just double down. I cannot wait for your disingenuous reply lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 2 hours ago, tshile said: I’ll defer to the experts over people on a forum with zero experience in any of it. Party pooper 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 Very. Stable. Genius. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Wiggles Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 Ok roomer 🤪 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabbyrwock Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 2 minutes ago, Captain Wiggles said: Ok roomer 🤪 Someone should tell him its spelled with a "u", just to see if he types out "roomur". 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 20 minutes ago, Jabbyrwock said: Someone should tell him its spelled with a "u", just to see if he types out "roomur". We don’t need your hanky/lanky. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 Eminem tells Vivek Ramaswamy to not use his songs on campaign trail https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/08/28/eminem-tells-vivek-ramaswamy-not-use-his-songs-campaign-trail/ Quote Republican presidential hopeful Vivek Ramaswamy gave an impromptu performance of Eminem’s “Lose Yourself” onstage during a campaign event in Iowa earlier this month. But the Grammy-winning hip-hop artist wants that to be the political newcomer’s only performance — at least when it comes to Eminem’s music. Nearly two weeks after Ramaswamy showed off his rapping skills at the Iowa State Fair, Eminem asked Ramaswamy’s campaign to not do that again. C’mon epic diss track. 1 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 1 hour ago, Jabbyrwock said: Someone should tell him its spelled with a "u", just to see if he types out "roomur". But pronounced like Ahhnold..."roomah" 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted August 28, 2023 Share Posted August 28, 2023 12 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said: C’mon epic diss track. Yaazzz!!! 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted August 29, 2023 Share Posted August 29, 2023 (edited) Deleted. Edited August 29, 2023 by Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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