NickyJ Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, RVAskins said: You do realize the combined net worth of Harris and Rales is about the same as Jerry Jones and he happens to be the 3rd richest owner. For the life of me I don't understand why people think Harris and Rales can't afford to purchase the team. No, I didn't realize it. I thought the NFL was going to let Snyder sell only 5% of the team because Harris and Rales are poor paupers and the only one who can afford the team's asking price is Big Daddy Bezos. My bad. Edited March 30, 2023 by NickyJ 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RVAskins Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 4 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said: Exactly. He paid $150 million. The last two sales have gone to the two wealthiest owners in the NFL. Walton and Tepper. Price of entry is hitting the $20B net worth level at these prices. Forbes estimates Tepper's worth to be 16.7 billion. Some people here would say that is not enough to buy the Commanders. SMH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSkins Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 1 minute ago, RVAskins said: Forbes estimates Tepper's worth to be 16.7 billion. Some people here would say that is not enough to buy the Commanders. SMH He might have to get more creative to buy the commaders for sure. He paid 2.25 billion for the Panthers. Harris or Rales obviously can’t do it on their own. It’s actually enjoyable watching these multi billionaires look like peasants and paupers when it comes to buying an NFL team. The economics have completely changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 2 minutes ago, Warhead36 said: Super rich people don't actually pay full price for things. One of the secrets of how really rich people get even richer is they often are able to buy businesses without using any of their own money. They leverage the debt onto the books of the company they just bought and have it paid off by that business. That impacts the balance sheet and net income from that business - but assuming there are strong enough cash flow and EBITA to cover the servicing of that debt our hypothetical rich person just got an asset that is growing in value (and which adds to their net worth) without (sometimes) needing to put in a cent of their own money. They can do this because investment financers are willing to put up the money to buy the asset because of all the net worth the person making the purchase has. They are a 'good risk'. If I walked into a meeting and asked if I could borrow $1B to buy a business it would be a short conversation, if its someone worth $50B in owned assets asking that question its very very different. The NFL stops fully leveraged buyouts - their rules insist the lead buyer puts in at least 30% and limits debt to $1B. 3 3 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 Getting legitimately into the process of bidding for an NFL team (contracting an investment bank, signing an NDA, etc.) is the ONLY way almost anyone on earth can actually get a look at an NFL team’s books. I think Bezos is interested on some level in owning an NFL team. I won’t pretend to be able to say if Washington or Seattle would appeal to him more, in a vacuum (and I know this situation doesn’t exist in a vacuum). But I’m not willing to rule out that Bezos, as a media partner of the league, may also be equally interested in an in-depth look at an NFL team’s precious financials. There’s a mountain of information to learn—even from Snyder’s unhealthy books. I’m not saying that as some sort of conspiracy. I agree there’s still a good chance he puts in a winning bid. I’m just saying I wouldn’t be surprised to find out later that Harris/Rales was the only “real” legitimate interest there ever was—because I don’t think it’s absurd that Bezos contracted the bank he did and signed the NDA he did just to get a look at the books of an NFL team, for various reasons. Maybe even in service to a potential future Seahawks bid, sure. But there are very few things beyond the reach of a guy like Bezos. Real, open NFL financials, even completely botched failson franchise numbers, are one of those things. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSkins Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 1 minute ago, Conn said: Getting legitimately into the process of bidding for an NFL team (contracting an investment bank, signing an NDA, etc.) is the ONLY way almost anyone on earth can actually get a look at an NFL team’s books. I think Bezos is interested on some level in owning an NFL team. I won’t pretend to be able to say if Washington or Seattle would appeal to him more, in a vacuum (and I know this situation doesn’t exist in a vacuum). But I’m not willing to rule out that Bezos, as a media partner of the league, may also be equally interested in an in-depth look at an NFL team’s precious financials. There’s a mountain of information to learn—even from Snyder’s unhealthy books. I’m not saying that as some sort of conspiracy. I agree there’s still a good chance he puts in a winning bid. I’m just saying I wouldn’t be surprised to find out later that Harris/Rales was the only “real” legitimate interest there ever was—because I don’t think it’s absurd that Bezos contracted the bank he did and signed the NDA he did just to get a look at the books of an NFL team, for various reasons. Maybe even in service to a potential future Seahawks bid, sure. But there are very few things beyond the reach of a guy like Bezos. Real, open NFL financials, even completely botched failson franchise numbers, are one of those things. If any of this speculation is accurate why did he pass on even looking at the Broncos sale? That was run by Allen and Company company who Bezos has a relationship with through the Washington Post purchase. He would have had access in great detail to those books but chose to pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 8 minutes ago, MartinC said: One of the secrets of how really rich people get even richer is they often are able to buy businesses without using any of their own money. They leverage the debt onto the books of the company they just bought and have it paid off by that business. That impacts the balance sheet and net income from that business - but assuming there are strong enough cash flow and EBITA to cover the servicing of that debt our hypothetical rich person just got an asset that is growing in value (and which adds to their net worth) without (sometimes) needing to put in a cent of their own money. They can do this because investment financers are willing to put up the money to buy the asset because of all the net worth the person making the purchase has. They are a 'good risk'. If I walked into a meeting and asked if I could borrow $1B to buy a business it would be a short conversation, if its someone worth $50B in owned assets asking that question its very very different. The NFL stops fully leveraged buyouts - their rules insist the lead buyer puts in at least 30% and limits debt to $1B. Yep. That’s it right there. Great post. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RVAskins Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 10 minutes ago, MartinC said: One of the secrets of how really rich people get even richer is they often are able to buy businesses without using any of their own money. They leverage the debt onto the books of the company they just bought and have it paid off by that business. That impacts the balance sheet and net income from that business - but assuming there are strong enough cash flow and EBITA to cover the servicing of that debt our hypothetical rich person just got an asset that is growing in value (and which adds to their net worth) without (sometimes) needing to put in a cent of their own money. That is unless your name is Daniel Snyder and you're just a dumbass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 26 minutes ago, RVAskins said: That is unless your name is Daniel Snyder and you're just a dumbass. Very very true. Sometimes people get rich (and richer) just through dumb luck or being in the right place at the right time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSkins Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 1 minute ago, MartinC said: Very very true. Sometimes people get rich 9and richer) just through dumb luck or being in the right place at the right time. The rift with Fred Smith and Dwight Schar is the best example of this. The NFL ended up backing Dan, burying the Wilkerson report and allowing him a debt waiver to buyout those guys when interest was at an all time low. His $900 million leveraged buyout of those guys is turning into $2.5 billion plus sale in a 24 month span when nearly every other market has seen a big correction during that time span. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 (edited) Bobby Three Sticks has chimed in... https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/robert-griffin-iii-teases-ownership-stake-in-commanders-says-fans-will-throw-a-parade-if-dan-snyder-sells/ "At the end of the day, the fans ... they will throw a parade when Dan Snyder sells the team," Griffin said. (Will he bring the melting vanilla ice cream, or the stale Braniff airline peanuts?) Edited March 30, 2023 by BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen said: Bobby Three Sticks has chimed in... https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/robert-griffin-iii-teases-ownership-stake-in-commanders-says-fans-will-throw-a-parade-if-dan-snyder-sells/ "At the end of the day, the fans ... they will throw a parade when Dan Snyder sells the team," Griffin said. (Will he bring the melting vanilla ice cream, or the stale Braniff airline peanuts?) Nah he’ll bring Lamar Jackson. That’s the only reason Harris has befriended RG3, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 22 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said: If any of this speculation is accurate why did he pass on even looking at the Broncos sale? That was run by Allen and Company company who Bezos has a relationship with through the Washington Post purchase. He would have had access in great detail to those books but chose to pass. I said I believe he does have a level of interest in this team, which was obviously not true with the Broncos. That doesn’t mean his level of interest is “like it love it gotta have it!” His potential interest in the team, if he likes what he sees, could be a contributing factor to his general interest in the books. The assumption that there’s nothing he could see in the books that would make him go “ehhh I’ll pass” is just that imo—an assumption. He’s a cutthroat businessman. An NFL team might not be as profitable as he thought, even after cutting through the Snyder idiocy and explainable issues with the franchise’s financials. Or I’m wrong and he’s going to swoop in with the winning bid like you think. I’m open to that. I’m simply arguing that contracting a banker to explore the sale and the financials, and signing the NDA, doesn’t necessarily mean he’s 100% in on the idea of the purchase sight unseen. That’s a reckless assumption that is making a lot of people in here see Bezos as a foregone conclusion imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, Conn said: I’m simply arguing that contracting a banker to explore the sale and the financials, and signing the NDA, doesn’t necessarily mean he’s 100% in on the idea of the purchase sight unseen. That’s a reckless assumption that is making a lot of people in here see Bezos as a foregone conclusion imo. I agree. Plus the assumption is that he’s cash rich and will simply plough money in to buy the team. He’ll want investors. And, without straying out of Stadium talk, this may not be the right economic time for Bezos to bail several Billion out of Amazon to fund this. Low market value. Talk he is heading back to CEO this year. Plenty of business related variables. I’d happily take him though it’s just not a financial given IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSkins Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, Conn said: I’m simply arguing that contracting a banker to explore the sale and the financials, and signing the NDA, doesn’t necessarily mean he’s 100% in on the idea of the purchase sight unseen. That’s a reckless assumption that is making a lot of people in here see Bezos as a foregone conclusion imo. You previously said the value was in the books in the post before this one. When I pointed out that he passed in the Broncos, you are now speculating well he wants the team but do we really know if he wants it. For the sake of argument, let’s assume he is 100% all-in on buying this team. Name a single thing he would have done differently in this process that has been reported so far. I don’t think there is anything. We are then left with the fact that he previously tried to buy a 40% minority stake in this team. It has been reported he met with and partnered with Jay Z to buy this team. He hired the the firm who processed the previous two NFL franchise sales and he entered into an NDA with Dan through BofA to potentially buy this team. Those are the reported facts. Yet you are speculating that he is not really interested and to assume otherwise is reckless. I think it’s laughable that anyone sees this anything but inevitable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 49 minutes ago, MartinC said: They leverage the debt onto the books of the company they just bought and have it paid off by that business. That impacts the balance sheet and net income from that business - but assuming there are strong enough cash flow and EBITA to cover the servicing of that debt our hypothetical rich person just got an asset that is growing in value Goodwill is in play for anyone who makes an acquisition where purchase price exceeds assets, not just the super rich. I come across this quite frequently and I don't write debt for billionaires, unfortunately. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 12 minutes ago, JSSkinz said: Goodwill is in play for anyone who makes an acquisition where purchase price exceeds assets, not just the super rich. I come across this quite frequently and I don't write debt for billionaires, unfortunately. Absolutely - but goodwill right down is different to fully leveraged purchase of an asset . As you say goodwill is the difference between the price agreed for the business and the actual value of the assets of that business - and its normally capitalized. How the whole purchase (including any goodwill) is financed is where people with very high net worth can make that work for them in arranging finance which does not require any 9or maybe only marginal) actual money in from them. But this is starting to feel more like a business school lecture, or actual work 🙂 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewCliche21 Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 Just now, MartinC said: Absolutely - but goodwill right down is different to fully leveraged purchase of an asset . As you say goodwill is the difference between the price agreed for the business and the actual value of the assets of that business - and its normally capitalized. How the whole purchase (including any goodwill) is financed is where people with very high net worth can make that work for them in arranging finance which does not require any 9or maybe only marginal) actual money in from them. But this is starting to feel more like a business school lecture, or actual work 🙂 Yeah I'm already aware that I'm dumb, please stop emphasizing it. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FootballZombie Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 I'm learning so much about how to properly handle my estate in the future when I have billions upon billions of dollars. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewCliche21 Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 Just now, FootballZombie said: I'm learning so much about how to properly handle my estate in the future when I have billions upon billions of dollars. You have fun with that, I'll be keeping it simple with both of my dollars. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FootballZombie Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 Just now, NewCliche21 said: You have fun with that, I'll be keeping it simple with both of my dollars. I'm considering putting a monocle on layaway... gotta make sure I'm prepared 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSkins Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 Just now, FootballZombie said: I'm learning so much about how to properly handle my estate in the future when I have billions upon billions of dollars. If only the mystery billionaire who died recently had an heir pay 7 billion in estate taxes had read this ES thread before passing. Could have saved more than the purchase price of the Commanders! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, MartinC said: Absolutely - but goodwill right down is different to fully leveraged purchase of an asset . As you say goodwill is the difference between the price agreed for the business and the actual value of the assets of that business - and its normally capitalized. How the whole purchase (including any goodwill) is financed is where people with very high net worth can make that work for them in arranging finance which does not require any 9or maybe only marginal) actual money in from them. But this is starting to feel more like a business school lecture, or actual work 🙂 In reality, the purchase of an NFL franchise isn’t quite the norm is it. The biggest challenge here is meeting the league set purchase criteria re % cash, % debt etc. It’s just about getting in the door. This is part business, part toy, part ego stimulator. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 3 minutes ago, FootballZombie said: I'm learning so much about how to properly handle my estate in the future when I have billions upon billions of dollars. If you need help spending it I will introduce you to my wife. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RVAskins Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 5 minutes ago, FootballZombie said: I'm learning so much about how to properly handle my estate in the future when I have billions upon billions of dollars. Buy lots of stuff from Amazon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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