2023 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

30 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Senior Bowl Tight ends: 

 

Davis Allen, Clemson - I can make this short. Poor man's Cam Latu. Like him, but not all that much. But he has a lot of potential to be a productive guy in the NFL down the line. Fluid athlete. Has faced good competition. Makes himself available. 

 

I am somehwere between your take and Daniel Jeremiah's take about Allen.  I like Allen.  Jeremiah' really digs him big time.  He sees him as an early 2nd rounder.  For me, 4th rounder.  Jack of all trades but master of none.  But he comes off pretty fluid for a TE as a seperator and with the ball in his hands -- hands catcher, contested catches.  Decent blocker. Team captain.  

 

In that 2nd tier range, Laporta would be my top desire.  Allen might be 2nd in that 2nd tier group but a bunch of guys are close for me including Latu.  Again though want to see him in the combine.

Edited February 4, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Going Commando]

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

In that 2nd tier range, Laporta would be my top desire.

 

Same for me.  Finally got around to watching him and loved what I saw.  Really good route runner and I love the way he snaps out of his breaks.  I think there is some real build-up speed in his game.  Willing as a blocker, if not super accurate.  Surprised that they would ever use him as a pass-blocker, but they did.  Wonder if Cooley will see a little of himself in LaPorta?

 

He's my TE3 after Mayer and Kincaid.  A notch down from them, but a good receiver and a good player.

 

Been liking Kincaid more ever since I went back and looked at him.  Kincaid's ball skills and concentration on contested catches are spectacular for a TE.  He's special and I can get behind him as a first round pick.  This is a really good TE group in the first two days of the draft.  TE and DB and DL are the cream of the crop this year, and QB is pretty good too.

[KDawg]

I can’t get a feel for some of these guys. I like Kincaid. I think he’s a smooth receiver and a willing blocker. But he’s more of a H type it feels like. Which is fine, but he’s not a great blocker… so again he is more of a receiver.

 

And that’s the issue I have with a lot of these tight end types. It’s not that they couldn’t produce or be solid pros… it’s that they are essentially receivers who line up in different spots. You can get similar production from an actual receiver.

 

Having said all of that, I don’t think Kincaid is that. He blocks better than a typical receiver. But generally speaking these guys are a dime a dozen OR, if they are special (and some are) they are used primarily as receivers anyways.
 

Guys like Mayer and Darnell Washington are extensions of the OL that can catch. Washington’s production isn’t great but he has one of the best actual in-line tight end prospects in years on his team and a team full of Dawgs. 
 

Don’t get me wrong, there is absolutely a place for guys like Kincaid. And he is going to probably be relatively productive… and he may even skirt the line enough to be an actual tight end (I’m using him as more of an example). But some of these tight ends are not tight ends at all.

Edited February 4, 2023 by KDawg

[Skinsinparadise]

 

12 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

Same for me.  Finally got around to watching him and loved what I saw.  Really good route runner and I love the way he snaps out of his breaks.  I think there is some real build-up speed in his game.  Willing as a blocker, if not super accurate.  Surprised that they would ever use him as a pass-blocker, but they did.  Wonder if Cooley will see a little of himself in LaPorta?

 

He's my TE3 after Mayer and Kincaid.  A notch down from them, but a good receiver and a good player.

 

Been liking Kincaid more ever since I went back and looked at him.  Kincaid's ball skills and concentration on contested catches are spectacular for a TE.  He's special and I can get behind him as a first round pick.  This is a really good TE group in the first two days of the draft.  TE and DB and DL are the cream of the crop this year, and QB is pretty good too.

 

I didn't really think of Cooley but that's a good analogy with Laporta, his movement seems to remind me of Cooley some.   He just seems to be a natural seperator who makes plays.  Not a killer athlete but good enough. 

 

In a normal TE draft Laporta would be likely a 2 TE type, and a 2nd rounder.  In this crop I think he sneaks into the third.   I think he's a rare high floor TE.  Not killer but solid-good.   And i could see a Cooley type of career.

 

Some of the others in that 2nd tier:  Schoonmaker, Davis Allen, Mallory, Latu, I am going to have to rewatch to seperate them and the combine will help me, too.

 

With the 2nd TEs its hard, some dudes that looked good to me predraft like Devin Asiasi, Harrison Bryant, etc -- have done nothing in the NFL.  Then you got guys like Isaiah Likely who fit that sort of range of player in college, didn't kill the combine, and he's off to a good start.

 

It's part of the reason why i don't think its as straightforward as some say about go get your TE later in the draft.  Plenty of these 2nd tier types have been "meh" in the NFL.

 

So some of these guys in this range if past is prologue will be useless in the NFL.  And I haven't figured out any formula on this as to seperation.  Athleticism helps but its not always the X factor for the success and failures in that range.  Kittle has an insane RAS without much production so he would be a vote for athleticism comes first -- i lean in that direction but its not always.  

Edited February 4, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

Someone posted here maybe Darnell Wright at 16, based on mocks, as much as i like him, felt like he can be had later in the first.  Now I wonder if that's so?  If he has a good game today and has a decent combine, I am betting he and D. Jones become firm in the first round conversation. 

 

 

 

Edited February 4, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[bird_1972]

20 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Someone posted here maybe Darnell Wright at 16, based on mocks, as much as i like him, felt like he can be had later in the first.  Now I wonder if that's so?  If he has a good game today and has a decent combine, I am betting he and D. Jones become firm in the first round conversation. 

 

 

 

 

I've heard a lot of buzz around Wright as well after this week. That said, I guess it comes down to how many teams want to spend their 1st rounder on OT vs. other needs. Obviously, it always comes down to that. If it is felt this is a deep draft of decent T prospects, maybe let others "overpay" in the draft and we focus on a stud IOL and then take a tackle in rounds 2 ore 3. 

 

Would rather not focus on TE early, but I realize it would be good to have a legit starter since it's looking like the bloom has come off the rose with Logan Thomas.

 

Also, what is our plan with LB? Seems like a huge need that we'll also need to slot in between OT/OG/C/CB in the draft.

[Skinsinparadise]

16 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

Cody Mauch, ND State - If he played somewhere other than ND State I think he'd be my top rated IOL. This guy is damn relentless. Watched one play where he legit blocked a guy passed the boundary and to the stadium wall. Sure, that should have been a penalty. Mybe two or three penalties. But talk about a tone setter. Dude lost teeth. I love this guy. The way he runs his feet and uses his hands. The way he keeps his feet and balance. This dude is a dude and he is VERY position versatile. Can play C/G primarily but in a pinch he could absolutely play tackle. 

 

 

 

 

Agree, I touted him awhile ago, as I said then I didn't want to like him.  I think the Caveman image turned me off because usually that stuff is hyperbole.  But I said pretty much the exact thing after watching him.

 

I've been saying if we want to go with a tone setter in the run game, this is the dude on the O line.    And as for a TE the clear tone setter as a blocker is Darnell Washington.  Imagine having those two blocking for Robinson going downhill or Gibson on the 2nd level?

Edited February 4, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree, I touted him awhile ago, as I said then I didn't want to like him.  I think the Caveman image turned me off because usually that stuff is hyperbole.  But I said pretty much the exact thing after watching him.

 

I've been saying if we want to go with a tone setter in the run game, this is the dude on the O line.    And as for a TE the clear tone setter as a blocker is Darnell Washington.  Imagine having those two blocking for Robinson going downhill or Gibson on the 2nd level?

Stop. I’m getting excited.

[Going Commando]

I've been trying to sound out where I'd be comfortable drafting Hendon Hooker.  His age isn't a concern for me at all.  I don't care when the lightbulb turns on for a QB, just that it has turned on.

 

The stuff that bothers me about him and makes me risk averse:

 

1 - Offensive system feels really gimmicky.  It hinged so much on speed to the line, and there is no question that it creates easy reads and windows because college defenses, even SEC ones, just don't get prepared for that kind of speed with the limited practice time they get.  It's the same reason why Chip Kelly's offenses were so successful at Oregon but didn't translate to the NFL game.

 

2 - His surrounding talent was a lot better than generally acknowledged.  Hyatt and Tillman are NFL prospects and Bru McCoy was a former five star and top ten recruit nationally.  Darnell Wright and Cooper Mays are going to be fairly high draft picks, and the RG Spraggins might end up being a pretty good NFL prospect too.  Those were some rock solid pockets he threw out of for most of the year, and an elite deep threat spacing out the secondaries.

 

3 - The ACL tear makes him a question mark.

 

All in all, I'm seeing second round or early third round projections on him in most of the mocks and I feel that is too early for me.  I don't start feeling comfortable with the risk on him until 3rd round comp pick range at the earliest.

[woodpecker]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

Stop. I’m getting excited.

Can’t thank you guys enough who are doing all this research on players most of us have never heard of! An O lineman best described as a caveman sounds like exactly what we need!

[KDawg]

[Going Commando]

My concern with Darnell Wright is similar to my concern with Hooker--offensive system.

 

To me it looks like he's doing very little true pass setting because of how RPO heavy their offense is.  He's actually taking lateral steps on most of his sets for these passing plays.  Going through the Alabama cut ups, and I noticed that he only had eight or nine snaps in the first half where he used a traditional NFL style vertical set while matched up with an edge rusher.  And even on those sets, his kicksteps look really shallow.

 

The reason I bring this up is I think there could be some issue with translation/adjustment to NFL pass pro with Wright.  Cosmi was in a similar situation coming out, playing for an extremely RPO heavy offense where he just didn't do a lot of NFL style pass protection.  I bet that's slowed his adjustment to the NFL.

 

I think Dawand Jones is a safer bet at 16 than Darnell Wright.  I do share the concerns about his weight and conditioning with others in this thread, but I think he's going to have an easier and faster adjustment to the NFL than Wright.

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I am listening to a podcast about the Senior Bowl from someone who was there, he said Mauch by far has the best (interesting) personality there.

 

He would fit like a tee with the old school hogs.   Russ Grimm but with more personality. 

[KDawg]

20 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

My concern with Darnell Wright is similar to my concern with Hooker--offensive system.

 

To me it looks like he's doing very little true pass setting because of how RPO heavy their offense is.  He's actually taking lateral steps on most of his sets for these passing plays.  Going through the Alabama cut ups, and I noticed that he only had eight or nine snaps in the first half where he used a traditional NFL style vertical set while matched up with an edge rusher.  And even on those sets, his kicksteps look really shallow.

 

The reason I bring this up is I think there could be some issue with translation/adjustment to NFL pass pro with Wright.  Cosmi was in a similar situation coming out, playing for an extremely RPO heavy offense where he just didn't do a lot of NFL style pass protection.  I bet that's slowed his adjustment to the NFL.

 

I think Dawand Jones is a safer bet at 16 than Darnell Wright.  I do share the concerns about his weight and conditioning with others in this thread, but I think he's going to have an easier and faster adjustment to the NFL than Wright.

Agree. I think Dawand is a pretty clean prospect. Just needs to drop some weight to get better movement. 

[method man]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

Agree. I think Dawand is a pretty clean prospect. Just needs to drop some weight to get better movement. 

My main major concern with Dawand is that he seems to be a scheme specific fit. He may fit Ron’s scheme but mag not fit the next guy’s

[KDawg]

6 minutes ago, method man said:

My main major concern with Dawand is that he seems to be a scheme specific fit. He may fit Ron’s scheme but mag not fit the next guy’s

Yeah I’m not sure about that. He’s not going to be a guy that we’re running counter with and seeing him glide behind the formation and lead through the hole with quickness and agility. But I think he’s fine in man, zone, slide, jump sets and vertical sets.

[Chump Bailey]

Top Ten S

 

1. Jordan Battle, Alabama
2. Antonio Johnson, Texas A&M
3. Chris Smith, Georgia
4. JL Skinner, Boise State
5. Brandon Joseph, Notre Dame
6. Quan Martin, Illinois
7. Ji'Ayir Brown, Penn State
8. Sydney Brown, Illinois
9. Jammie Robinson, Florida State
10. Ronnie Hickman, Ohio State * Jay Ward, LSU * Kaevon Merriweather, Iowa * DeMarcco Hellams, Alabama * Rashad Torrence, Florida

 

Honorable Mentions: Quindell Johnson, Memphis * AJ Finley, Ole Miss * Kendall Smith, Illinois

Edited February 4, 2023 by Chump Bailey

[DWinzit]

54 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

Top Ten S

1. Jordan Battle, Alabama
2. Antonio Johnson, Texas A&M
3.  
4. JL Skinner, Boise State

I am such a fan of these 3 guys with a real crush on Skinner. 

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

Toothless and ruthless!  Announcers just said that in the Senior Bowl. That could stick

Edited February 4, 2023 by DWinzit

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

On 2/3/2023 at 1:11 PM, Going Commando said:

 First off, who is the real Jaelyn Duncan?  Because the one at the Senior Bowl looked fantastic in the drills.  Just cool as a cucumber locking it down like it was easy.  He has elite level quickness and just beats everyone to the spot, even against other speedy guys like Foskey.  He has some good power too for being on the thin side for an OT.  Great hand strength and great stance.  Just a really tall, well put-together athlete that was on a different level than the other athletes at the practice.

 

That was not the Jaelyn Duncan I remember watching against Penn State and Ohio State.  That guy was playing soft and scared.

 

This kid is an enigma, and I have to believe something was going on with him during the season that wrecked his performance on the field.  Hidden injury or health issue?  Family issue?  Locker room issue?  He is really talented and I feel like a potential mega-millions style lottery ticket if an NFL coaching staff can unlock his potential.  We're talking good left tackle potential.  Like Pro-Bowl good.  What is this kid's draft range?  He's a first round talent with awful tape.  Do you just ignore that and take him early anyway?  If you're in the fourth round and he's still on the board, the risk seems low enough that I feel like you've got to pull the trigger in that range.  Third round?  What about 47?  Really curious to find out what he said when our staff talked to him about this past season's performance.

 

Yeah, you nailed it.

 

He was dealing with an illness in the family.

 

Missed a game because of it.

Edited February 4, 2023 by BRAVEONAWARPATH

[Skinsinparadise]

National team: 

Bergeron, Avilia, Schmitz, Torrence, Wright looks pretty sick.

 

Focused some on Mauch looks stout so far 

 

Haener looks sharp 

[DWinzit]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

National team: 

Bergeron, Avilia, Schmitz, Torrence, Wright looks pretty sick.

 

Focused some on Mauch looks stout so far 

 

Haener looks sharp 

I think you jinxed Haener. You were correct, he looked impressive until that last possession.  He looks way better than Tune

 

Hull has looked good at RB

[KDawg]

I’m going to need to watch it later. Just getting home. Should be interesting.

[DWinzit]

7 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I’m going to need to watch it later. Just getting home. Should be interesting.

It has been a much less exciting game than the ones over the last few years. I think partially because they don't have the save QB talent this year.

As expected, the OL's have been the stars and the RB's have looked okay.

Coverages have been pretty good as best I can tell. 

TE Durham has looked pretty good and lined up a number of times as Hback/FB

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, DWinzit said:

It has been a much less exciting game than the ones over the last few years. I think partially because they don't have the save QB talent this year.

As expected, the OL's have been the stars and the RB's have looked okay.

Coverages have been pretty good as best I can tell. 

TE Durham has looked pretty good and lined up a number of times as Hback/FB

I think Durham’s best chance is as a FB/H vs. as a TE/H. He just kind of… exists… as a tight end.

[DWinzit]

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I think Durham’s best chance is as a FB/H vs. as a TE/H. He just kind of… exists… as a tight end.

Yeah he is doing the best he can get himself drafted late

I expected a lot more from the other TEs today

Edited February 4, 2023 by DWinzit