2023 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

Bonus for Rivera.  Rescue dogs.   That's Rivera's thing too.  He might not be able to resist John Michael Schmitz.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 2, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[RWJ]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Bonus for Rivera.  Rescue dogs.   That's Rivera's thing too.  He might not be able to resist John Michael Schmitz.

 

 

 

The more I hear about Schmitz, the more I like him.  I've had him on 90% my mock draft simluators draft with our 2nd round pick, granted he last that long. 

[method man]

For QB, hypothetically, would folks rather draft Hendon Hooker with a 5th or trade that 5th for Davis Mills? It'd be a hard choice. I don't think Mills is as bad as he looked last year and he is on a rookie deal for 2 more years

[Warhead36]

39 minutes ago, method man said:

For QB, hypothetically, would folks rather draft Hendon Hooker with a 5th or trade that 5th for Davis Mills? It'd be a hard choice. I don't think Mills is as bad as he looked last year and he is on a rookie deal for 2 more years

We'd be just as effective throwing that 5th rounder in the trash.

[Chump Bailey]

2 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

Is he Mike Bobo's son?

Sure is

[method man]

15 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

We'd be just as effective throwing that 5th rounder in the trash.

 

If he can give you at least decent backup QB play for a couple seasons on a rookie deal and save you $4M+ a season by not paying a Heinicke or Keenum type, sacrificing a 5th is well worth it

[Conn]

3 hours ago, method man said:

For QB, hypothetically, would folks rather draft Hendon Hooker with a 5th or trade that 5th for Davis Mills? It'd be a hard choice. I don't think Mills is as bad as he looked last year and he is on a rookie deal for 2 more years

Hooker. Even at his age and with his injury issues, you want the draw from the mystery box. We’ve seen enough from Mills to know what he isn’t, even if we don’t know exactly what he is. 

[KDawg]

Senior Bowl participants (quick hitters) Tape thoughts (for guys I haven't watched yet)... Keep in mind this is minimal film time and quick impressions so not claiming these takes to be all that well informed. 

 

QBs:

 

Tyson Bagent, Shepard - Obviously not much out there on him. Good size, good athlete. Decisive. Has quick release and a strong arm. Accuracy is all over the place. Good drop back passer that can break the pocket. He's not going to be too high due to sample size, but I'd say his best trait is his compact throwing motion and the way the ball jumps out of his hand. 

 

Jaren Hall, BYU - Productive. Seems to do well protecting the ball. Has a year and a day in the pocket to throw but when he does face some pressure he's comfortable sitting in the pocket and taking a hit. Has a strange throwing motion at times, but he is a fairly athletic guy. Arm is NFL capable but not incredible. Seems like he has a high football IQ. I do like him throwing outside the numbers. He seems really accurate there. 

 

Clayton Tune, Houston - I know SIP has been touting him a bit. Haven't watched him until now. I really like him. He moves well in the pocket, sees the field, distributes the ball around, can run a little and isn't afraid of contact. He has a real live arm, too. His mechanics break down sometimes, but he can really play.

 

Current rankings: Bagent - QB12, Hall - QB10, Tune - QB6 (tied with Haener)

 

RB: 

 

Eric Gray, Oklahoma - Doesn't have the best COD but has good vision and sturdy. Doesn't seem all that fast either but his vision gives him a good head start. Seems to be best running towards the tackles and making a cut to the perimeter or just inside the OT. Not sure how he translates. 

 

Evan Hull, Northwestern - Bigger back. Downhill short yardage type of runner. Capable of bigger hitters but won't be his game. Will be a short yardage workhorse type.

 

Rocshon Johnson, Texas - Lined up at receiver sometimes because the Horns had Bijan but they knew they wanted to get Johnson on the field. Violent runner. Excellent blocker. Patient. Doesn't have the best vision from what I see but is a good dual threat guy. He also returns kicks.

 

Kenny McIntosh, Georgia - Looks more like the style of the top backs in the draft. Good contact balance, COD, receiver, explosive, productive and has good vision. He's a tier above the other three so far. 

 

Cam Peoples, App State - Big dude that has some wiggle. Old for a RB, not much of a receiver but he can find a seam and get to it and a productive runner with a high average. 

 

Chris Rodriguez, Kentucky - Was suspended to start the year. Still almost had 1000 yards. Good downhill runner. Not really a wiggle guy at all. Strong base. Keeps feet churning on contact. Good balance. 

 

Tyjae Spears, Tulane - I think he has the best film of all the backs in the Senior Bowl. Does he translate? I don't know. But has vision, runs hard, good change of direction, seems to fall forward a lot. Can receive out of the backfield and has a real nice short jump cutback move.

 

Rankings: Gray RB16, Hull RB17, Johnson RB13, McIntosh RB9, Peoples RB15, Rodriguez RB14, Spears RB10.

 

WR: 

 

Ronnie Bell, Michigan  - Strong receiver. Seems to be more of a possession kind of guy. Scrappy so he falls forward but goes down on first contact fairly often. Love him on slants. Uses his body well. 

 

Derius Davis, TCU - I think he's more of a return man than a receiver but is electric with the ball in his hands. He'd be a guy Turner would probably like in the toolbox. Pretty versatile as a player and has good vision as a returner to get some jet sweep type carries. Don't think he has a huge upside as a receiver but as a return man? Yes.

 

Elijah Higgins, Stanford - Big bodied slot more in the mold of a tight end than a true receiver. Has good, soft hands though. 

 

Xavier Hutchinson, Iowa State - This guy has a little juice. Captain. Productive. Solid in contested situations. Plays big. Has a good "catchable ball" zone as he isn't afraid to lay out. Hard not to notice that most of his production comes from posts, corners and fades, though. 

 

Jonathan Mingo, Ole Miss - Has tremendously soft hands and catches well in traffic. Can't exaggerate how good his hands are. Possession style receiver. But like a lot of guys in college his production comes on short throws with room to run and vertical balls where he is behind the defense. Good athlete though that makes the most of the opportunities that he gets. 

 

Puka Nacua, BYU - Gets a little separation. Another possession type but I saw a few plays where he is running a fade and breaks it off if he doesn't have a step and he and his QB make adjustments. Strong receiver who adjusts well to the ball and can carry the ball a little bit. 

 

Jayden Reed, Michigan State - Good slot type of player who will go over the middle of the defense, he uses his body despite not being a huge guy. Has some shake. Electric. Excellent return man. He might be the best overall receiver at the Senior Bowl not named Charlie Jones, though I have Dell above him, too. 

 

Didn't watch all of them. Got tired.

 

Receiver rankings so far: Bell WR15, Davis WR19, Higgins WR18, Hutchinson WR17, Mingo WR16, Nacua WR11, Reed WR10

 

I'll try to get some line in tomorrow and defense on Saturday. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 3, 2023 by KDawg

[Going Commando]

2 hours ago, Chump Bailey said:

Sure is

 

I didn't realize he had an NFL track kid.  The local radio guys were just talking about Mike Bobo yesterday as the likely candidate to be Georgia's next OC.  Wonder why Jake ended up on the West Coast instead of making his way to the SEC?

[Koolblue13]

I doubt JMS or Mauch is there at 47 unfortunately. Their spot seems to be right in that mid to high 30 range.

 

Every year I wish we had 3+ picks in that 25-40 range. Usually a sweet spot for DB/LBer as well.

 

I never care about being in the top 5/10 (despite QB needs). It's always that 25-40 where I want to be.

[Skinsinparadise]

36 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I doubt JMS or Mauch is there at 47 unfortunately. Their spot seems to be right in that mid to high 30 range.

 

Every year I wish we had 3+ picks in that 25-40 range. Usually a sweet spot for DB/LBer as well.

 

I never care about being in the top 5/10 (despite QB needs). It's always that 25-40 where I want to be.

 

I think our best shot for a trade down is for the league to see the draft like most draftniks do.  Actually including Logan Paulsen though he didnt specify what CBs.  That is, that the top 3 or 4 CBs are a notch above the new group.  Odds are good one of them land at our spot.  Similar to the WR perception last year where the thought for many was Olave was the last of that first tier.

 

Feels like the late first and early 2nd is the sweet spot for O line.  So we can get away with trading down that far IMO.  As much as we talk corner, I think they can fix thir O line in one fell swoop in the first and 2nd, especially if they trade down.

 

Wonder if they'd consider that while looking at a CB depending on what pick they add, lets say late 2nd, early 3rd.  Someone like DJ Turner, Riley Moss, etc.   

 

Michael-Schmitz the more I digest is very tempting to me if somehow they end up with a late first-early 2nd.  Even if you bring Rouillier back, you can put Michael-Schmitz at LG for now and serve as insurance at center.  I typically don't love centers playing guard because they usually are undersized but that wouldn't be the case here. 

 

 

Edited February 3, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

Edited February 3, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

If we let Chase and Larson walk, I can definitely see the case for JMS at 16. I know that won't be BPA and we'd be passing on superior talent, but we all know that we don't draft BPA at all and we saw how important Center was for us. 

 

With Howell/young QB, Center and TE are the two most important positions for us to address.

[Skinsinparadise]

Senior Bowl buzz: Latest rumors around 2023 NFL draft, offseason moves

Who is the No. 5 QB in the 2023 class?

Thamel: The order of the top four quarterbacks in this draft can be parsed in several ways, but few will argue with the names in the top group. There's an overriding expectation that the top four, in some order, will be Alabama's Bryce Young, Ohio State's C.J. Stroud, Kentucky's Will Levis and Florida's Anthony Richardson. That leaves the most intriguing question at football's most vexing evaluation position: Who will be No. 5? There's no shortage of candidates, and this week at the Senior Bowl offered little clarity.

If Tennessee quarterback Hendon Hooker were healthy, he'd certainly lead that conversation. But his recovery from ACL surgery layers his draft status in ambiguity. He's still expected to go on Day 2, but his slot is projected with significant potential variance.

 

...A survey of a few scouts had O'Connell as a fringe top-100 prospect with a fourth-round floor. He's in the conversation for No. 5 along with Hooker, Haener, Hall and Tune, which means one could slip into the late second round. A big game on Saturday by any of the quarterbacks in Mobile might help usher them to the forefront of that conversation with the traditional Senior Bowl bump.

Don't be surprised if Hooker ends up rising, as he can continue to show teams he's recovering from his torn ACL. He said this week he is on track to be ready for summer training camp after getting surgery to repair his torn ACL on Dec. 13. The coaches he faced the past two years are bullish on him as a value.

"In the new-age NFL, I think he has the opportunity to be a really good player," said a college head coach. "He could absolutely be a value. Look at what Dak Prescott did as a fourth-rounder. If you take Hooker in the third round, you could end up with a quality starter."

 

Who were the biggest risers of the week?

Thamel: About 200 yards up a hill from the Senior Bowl practices at Han****-Whitney Stadium in Mobile lie the South Alabama football offices. As former Tulane star tailback Tyjae Spears sped through defenses in practice this week and showcased burst and suddenness, the Jaguars' defensive staff issued deep exhales. South Alabama opens next season at Tulane on Sept. 2, a sneaky good game between two of the better Group of 5 teams in 2022. That means the South Alabama staff, coming off a 10-3 season, has been consuming plenty of film of Tulane (12-2), which won the AAC and outraced USC in the Cotton Bowl.

"Thank god Tyjae Spears isn't playing for Tulane next year," South Alabama coach Kane Wommack told ESPN with a laugh.

Spears shined throughout his career with the Wave, rushing for 2,910 yards over four years. He particularly dominated in his finishing kick, as he torched USC in the Cotton Bowl for 205 yards on 17 carries, including four touchdowns. In the AAC title game against UCF, he rushed for 199 yards on 22 carries. Wommack saw a runner whose edge and motor transcended his 5-foot-10, 204-pound frame.

"He's got elite vision, a low center of gravity, and he has the trait where you see guys at the running back position that play with an expectation," he said. "There's this threshold of, are you above the line or below the line in terms of overall talent. But that can come in all sizes -- big guys, small guys, fast guys, strong guys, whatever. But you just see a guy that plays with an expectation, and I think you see that in the USC game that he's got that expectation. And I think that makes you a different-level back."

 

McShay: I polled a bunch of execs, coaches and scouts over the course of the week on the biggest risers based off practices. The same names kept popping up, no matter who I talked to.

The Brown twins from Illinois received a lot of buzz. Running back Chase Brown is the better prospect and will be drafted higher, but safety Sydney Brown looked really good all week long. An AFC exec told me that they will both probably be underdrafted and we'll look back at this class in three years and wonder why they weren't picked higher. He said he'd absolutely want both of those guys on his team.

Two scouts called out Iowa cornerback Riley Moss, who looked smooth, fast and instinctive in coverage. Moss sees it, feels it and knows the angles to take, and he looks like a Round 2 pick. Georgia Tech edge rusher Keion White's professional approach impressed an exec, too. The exec said from the moment White showed up at the Senior Bowl, you could just tell he's a pro and ready for the next level.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2023/insider/story/_/id/35578252/senior-bowl-buzz-latest-rumors-2023-nfl-draft-offseason-moves-quarterback-trades-top-prospects-free-agency

[Skinsinparadise]

26 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

If we let Chase and Larson walk, I can definitely see the case for JMS at 16. I know that won't be BPA and we'd be passing on superior talent, but we all know that we don't draft BPA at all and we saw how important Center was for us. 

 

With Howell/young QB, Center and TE are the two most important positions for us to address.

 

The impression I get, beat guys scuttlebut type of info that they want to change two O line spots as far as the lineup.  And they like both Rouillier-Larsen and they might keep one, the healthier one.  

 

In short, I get the vibe they'd be happy to replace three spots including center but don't want to put all the draft eggs on O line but are willing to do two for certain.  And again this is me reading between the lines of beat guy thoughts and it could be wrong but its the best I got for now.  Like I've said, usually the info gets better and most accurate especially from Keim after the combine.

 

So I am thinking they might be thinking is get a guard who can also play center.  Plant them at LG ideally.  Get a RT.    I noticed reading from a Washington fan below who is at the Senior Bowl, referencing them poking around on Avila.  Granted I bet they are poking around on all offensive O line guys so it might be much ado about nothing.  But this guy said he interviewed a guard who said Washington seemed to stand out as uber interested in him.   Pretty sure he's referencing Avila.

 

When I think of Avila, I think of a dude who is a wall in pass protect.  Don't love him in the run game because he's not the most fluid guy on the move.  But also I think of a dude who plays both center and guard.  He can cover both fronts and I am guessing they are intrigued by that because he would give them cover either way for the interior.  I am intrigued that Mauch is playing some center at the Senior Bowl.

 

John Michael-Schmitz IMO has the size and physicality to play guard.  Powerful hands and can bulldoze in the run game.  The reason why I liked Linderbaum over Michael-Schmitz is Linderbaum looks more agile. can sink his hips, more fluid.  But Michael-Schmitz has more power, bigger dude than the standard NFL center, at least today's NFL centers who are often around 300 pounds.  Schmitz is bigger and plays with power.

 

Said differently, I get the sense they might feel in a weird place at center.  They love Rouillier and like Larsen.  They feel the team is better when they play.  They want to change two spots.  They aren't sure if they have the luxury of changing three.  Be a lot better if their answer to center is already on their roster and they feel its the case if they can stay healthy.  But they also know its a disaster when these guys get hurt.  So how do you play that problem in the middle?  Get a guard who can also play center.  Not the typical center who is undersized for guard but one who would be legit playing either spot.  

 

 

 

Edited February 3, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

Yeah, I'm assuming that the G/C will have to be day two after CB and OT, depending on which way the draft falls to us on day one.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

8 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Yeah, I'm assuming that the G/C will have to be day two after CB and OT, depending on which way the draft falls to us on day one.

 

It's really tricky I think.  I am thinking the same OT-CB probably first.  But if they are stuck on O line and CB, it might not be crazy to go for a center-guard if they feel that player is special and is the distinct top one.  It's too early for me to opine about seperating the O lineman.  I want to see the combine.  Athleticism is key for this spot more than most.

 

But for arguments sake lets say they love Schmitz-Michael and don't see a lot of centers who can also play guard.  IMO the standard center is too undersized to play guard well.  So the pull of dudes who can play the spot equally well or close enough is a bit smaller from that context.  Schmitz-Michael would fit that IMO.  Maybe Tippman.  Avilia, Mauch.   they grab that dude first if they can trade down.  Add a pick in the 2nd or 3rd.   

 

I don't think all the tackles are gone at 47, someone will be there, maybe Bergeron, Freeland.  And take a corner like Riley, Turner, Ricks, with the pick they get in a trade down.

 

Again, this all assumes a trade down.  In short, a trade down likely fosters some flexibility.  i am not advocating this is what I want them to do.  It's too early for me to land on a hard opinion on that.  i am just saying I can see a scenario, especially in a trade down where they might go OG-C first.  My gut is they go tackle first right now but its not crazy if they fall for someone like Schmitz-Michael to take them but not at 16 IMO.  

Edited February 3, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[KDawg]

If we are going to go center first, we need a trade back, maybe two.

[Koolblue13]

18 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

It's really tricky I think.  I am thinking the same OT-CB probably first.  But if they are stuck on O line and CB, it might not be crazy to go for a center-guard if they feel that player is special and is the distinct top one.  It's too early for me to opine about seperating the O lineman.  I want to see the combine.  Athleticism is key for this spot more than most.

 

But for arguments sake lets say they love Schmitz-Michael and don't see a lot of centers who can also play guard.  IMO the standard center is too undersized to play guard well.  So the pull of dudes who can play the spot equally well or close enough is a bit smaller from that context.  Schmitz-Michael would fit that IMO.  Maybe Tippman.  Avilia, Mauch.   they grab that dude first if they can trade down.  Add a pick in the 2nd or 3rd.   

 

I don't think all the tackles are gone at 47, someone will be there, maybe Bergeron, Freeland.  And take a corner like Riley, Turner, Ricks, with the pick they get in a trade down.

 

Again, this all assumes a trade down.  In short, a trade down likely fosters some flexibility.  i am not advocating this is what I want them to do.  It's too early for me to land on a hard opinion on that.  i am just saying I can see a scenario, especially in a trade down where they might go OG-C first.  My gut is they go tackle first right now but its not crazy if they fall for someone like Schmitz-Michael to take them but not at 16 IMO.  

I can completely agree. I'm guess ing R1 is which ever OT/CB in the tier 1 ranking that's there is the pick, then the other position in R2 and R3, which ever IOL is left and is prioritized by position flexibility. 

 

Absolutely terrible way to build, but we're not spending (lord far-)squat in the offseason this year, so will use the draft like it's FA.

 

A trade back like last year would be awesome, but I think it's going to take one of the CBs. Steelers behind us seems like an obvious spot for Porter, so I could see some teams moving up if Gonz or Spoon are still there. I'd be surprised to see Mayer make it past NE or GB, which should help.

Just now, KDawg said:

If we are going to go center first, we need a trade back, maybe two.

I'm definitely not making the argument for JMS at 16. I'm just saying that I would understand it if someone did.

 

I'd love a double trade back like we could have/should have last year.

[Skinsinparadise]

• Michigan center Olusegun Oluwatimi rebounded Thursday after some struggles over the first two days. He won multiple battles with Wisconsin defensive tackle Keeanu Benton and stood out during team periods. Oluwatimi shows strength at the point of attack and the ability to anchor when pass-rushers attempt to attack his frame. He is receiving mixed reviews from scouts, though, as some evaluators have questions about his lower-half quickness. He is viewed as a fourth- or fifth-round prospect right now.

 

John Michael Schmitz, C, Minnesota

One of the biggest plays of Wednesday came on a screen pass during 11-on-11 drills. The ball was dropped to the right flat with defenders giving chase. Then came Schmitz, laying a crushing block to spring the runner into space.

Schmitz has had a wonderful first two days of practice and has been the most impressive offensive lineman at the Senior Bowl. His ability in space will give scouts a Creed Humphrey-like vibe, and he also routinely handled seal blocks and head-up defenders in the session. If you're looking for the first center to come off the board, Schmitz is taking the spot. He allowed just one sack all season in 2022. -- Miller

 

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2023/insider/story/_/id/35564252/senior-bowl-practice-2023-nfl-draft-best-quarterbacks-prospects-sleepers-risers-nuggets-know

 

 

Edited February 3, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[Warhead36]

Only wanting to upgrade two OL spots goes in line with my theory that the positions that we're going to address are RT and LG. C I think we bank on Roullier and/or Larsen returning from injury. Leno is solid at LT. Cosmi can slide in at RG where he looks much better than at T. But at RT we need to upgrade from Lucas(and move Lucas back to the backup swing Tackle role) and LG we don't have much of anything(Schweitzer is a good backup interior swing lineman but shouldn't be relied upon as a starter).

 

Now if both Roullier and Larsen look bad in the offseason workout stuff than maybe we address C in the draft. 

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

 

[Going Commando]

Very confusing that there are two Byron Youngs this year.

[Chump Bailey]

2 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

Very confusing that there are two Byron Youngs this year.

 

And both are good players too

[KDawg]

And seemingly 8,500 desirable corners and the hardest position for layman draftniks to grade because film is harder to see