2023 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Going Commando]

In fact the more I think about it, the more I think Phillips is a second rounder.  His situation reminds me of Mackensie Alexander or Elijah Molden.  Teams don't take tiny zone corners with short arms in the first round.

[Panninho]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

They have almost no holes coming up next year, since they started drafting Cox and Kelce's replacements last year, so if they want to use a draft pick on luxury like that, they totally can.

 

I'd assume they'll trade out of 5 for another couple 1rsts though, to a QB hungry team.

 

and they'll still have another 1rst around 32.

Yeah, I am not saying they couldn't afford to spend a luxury pick there but to me this is absolutely not the way Roseman operates. I think the likeliest scenario for them is a trade down to secure another future first rounder (like you said). However, three of their 4 starting DLs will be free agents after the season (Cox, Hargrave, Graham), as will their starting corner (Bradberry), their starting center (Kelce - but they already picked a C last year) and their starting guard (Seumalo). Considering their focus on the trenches, I'd guess they trade down or pick a Guard or a DT to pair with Davis.

Just saw that both their starting LBs (White and Edwards), their starting SS (Epps) and Garnder-Johnson will also all be free agents after the season. That's 8 starters on defense and 2 startes on offense. While they will for sure re-sign some and already drafted Nakobe Dean and Jordan Davis to take over, that is a lot of roster spots that need to be filled. So taking a RB with a top 10 pick seems like something Roseman would absolutely not do.

 

1 hour ago, Rex Tomb said:

He seems big on tape.  Doesn't seem very quick though; I'd worry about separation at the next level.

Yeah, he is for sure not beating many NFL corners in a track race but his acceleration is really good and he has really sharp cuts and understands how to manipulate defenders with subtle movements. I think he will be a nightmare to cover in the slot, even in the NFL.

Edited December 14, 2022 by Panninho

[Going Commando]

9 hours ago, FLSkinz83 said:

I don't see Ringo being a star.

 

I'm a bit iffy on Porter Jr.   I like Christian Gonzalez, Cam Smith and Clark Phillips better than Porter and Ringo.

 

I was skeptical of Ringo too but I've come around on him.  Corner is a tricky position to project because the position is soooo much more physically demanding in the NFL than it is in college.  Traits are more important for corner than any other position, and finding guys with size/power and speed are the key.  I can't count the number of times I've been wrong about college corners who are playmaking studs with superior feel for the game, but then get to the NFL and do nothing because they physically can't match up.  Sometimes you get dudes who are obvious alphas and studs at the college level like Jaycee Horn and Jaylon Johnson and they project clean to the NFL level.  But most of the time, you need to look past warty tape for the big/fast guys who didn't play that well, or by contrast, the stellar tape from the guys that are just to skinny or small or slow to hang with NFL athleticism in man coverage.

 

Ringo's got some tightness in his movement but he is fast as **** and he's also king-sized and strong enough to easily play safety at the NFL level.  I do think he could be a star in our system because he's very physical and he can match up with anyone in man coverage on the outside.  Put him and Juice on the outside receivers and they'd strap them up and shrink the field for our safeties.  It'd be a really ideal pick for us and I actually think we'd be kind of lucky to get Ringo at our natural pick in the first round.  I think he's going to be a riser throughout this pre-draft process and end up somewhere 8-14.

 

Still developing my feel for the other guys, although I'm gaining confidence that Phillips won't be a first round pick.  Right now we're still in the thick of the season and his tape from the season is so freaking good that it's leading us to overlook his bad traits.  But when we get a couple of months out from the season and he has to go through the combine process and get weighed and measured, it'll throw cold water on his draft stock.

[Going Commando]

8 minutes ago, Panninho said:

Considering their focus on the trenches, I'd guess they trade down or pick a Guard or a DT to pair with Davis.

 

Cox and Graham will retire as Eagles IMO.  But I can definitely see them picking DL with that super high draft pick.  I think they take one of the Clemson dudes or maybe the kid from Texas Tech.  Bresee and Davis is a horrible scenario for us, basically a better version of what we built on our line, and likely to dominate in the future.  They could use an elite edge rusher too, and both Murphy and Wilson fit well for them.  But I bet they're hoping the teams at the top are dumb and either Will Anderson or Jalen Carter falls to them.  That's the worst case scenario for us.

 

Hopefully, hopefully Detroit and Chicago make sure that doesn't happen.  But they could absolutely pick quarterbacks.  Where are those Detroit and Philly top five picks coming from btw?  I've forgotten the sources for them and don't know who I need to be rooting for to lose down the stretch.

[Panninho]

1 minute ago, Going Commando said:

 

Cox and Graham will retire as Eagles IMO.  But I can definitely see them picking DL with that super high draft pick.  I think they take one of the Clemson dudes or maybe the kid from Texas Tech.  Bresee and Davis is a horrible scenario for us, basically a better version of what we built on our line, and likely to dominate in the future.  They could use an elite edge rusher too, and both Murphy and Wilson fit well for them.  But I bet they're hoping the teams at the top are dumb and either Will Anderson or Jalen Carter falls to them.  That's the worst case scenario for us.

 

Hopefully, hopefully Detroit and Chicago make sure that doesn't happen.  But they could absolutely pick quarterbacks.  Where are those Detroit and Philly top five picks coming from btw?  I've forgotten the sources for them and don't know who I need to be rooting for to lose down the stretch.

These came from the Saints (Eagles) and the Rams (Detriot).

I hope at least the Saints will win some games down the road. Their division is horrible and they are somehow still in playoff contention. They still have the Falcons, Browns and Panthers on the schedule which are all winnable games.

 

I don't think Jalen Carter or Will Anderson are realistically in play at 6. But the Saints better not lose out...

[Koolblue13]

35 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

 

Cox and Graham will retire as Eagles IMO.  But I can definitely see them picking DL with that super high draft pick.  I think they take one of the Clemson dudes or maybe the kid from Texas Tech.  Bresee and Davis is a horrible scenario for us, basically a better version of what we built on our line, and likely to dominate in the future.  They could use an elite edge rusher too, and both Murphy and Wilson fit well for them.  But I bet they're hoping the teams at the top are dumb and either Will Anderson or Jalen Carter falls to them.  That's the worst case scenario for us.

 

Hopefully, hopefully Detroit and Chicago make sure that doesn't happen.  But they could absolutely pick quarterbacks.  Where are those Detroit and Philly top five picks coming from btw?  I've forgotten the sources for them and don't know who I need to be rooting for to lose down the stretch.

Rams and Saints.

 

Eagles haven't drafted a LBer in the first round in over 30 years, but they need a Graham replacement. The Cox and Kelce replacements are on the roster.

 

I don't think they stay at 5 and trade back, because a QB will be there, but if not, DL is definitely the pick. IOL will probably be their second 1rst or DB.

[Franklin60]

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

They have almost no holes coming up next year, since they started drafting Cox and Kelce's replacements last year, so if they want to use a draft pick on luxury like that, they totally can.

 

I'd assume they'll trade out of 5 for another couple 1rsts though, to a QB hungry team.

 

and they'll still have another 1rst around 32.

There is zero chance the Eagles take a running back in the top ten. Period. Eagles fans have been laughing at that mock because it is so absurd. Also, they have significant holes at DT, DE, CB, and S. Almost all of their “talent” at that position is old. They could also sneak in an OT pick and it would not be a shock. But they ain’t taking a RB with their first pick. That’s not the way they operate. 

Edited December 14, 2022 by Franklin60

[Koolblue13]

8 minutes ago, Franklin60 said:

There is zero chance the Eagles take a running back in the top ten. Period. Eagles fans have been laughing at that mock because it is so absurd. Also, they have significant holes at DT, DE, CB, and S. Almost all of their “talent” at that position is old. They could also sneak in an OT pick and it would not be a shock. But they ain’t taking a RB with their first pick. That’s not the way they operate. 

Look at the post above yours.

 

I don't think they or anyone takes a RB that high, I was just pointing out that because of prior offseason drafting it's a luxury they could afford.

 

Adding the second coming or Adrian Foster to that offense would be pretty amazing though.

[Going Commando]

I'm going to sum up my thoughts on the corners thus far.  These takes will change as I get to see more cut ups, plus the AS game and combine performances will add info, but this is what I'm feeling at the end of the football season.

 

-  Christian Gonzalez: Looked like a total scrub in the Georgia game but was good the rest of the year.  Effortless carrying speed downfield in man coverage.  Ultra confident in off coverage.  Fantastic hands that are soft and quick, and really good body control.  Has hip fluidity and speed and good size.  He's physical in the open field too.  Has man/zone and inside/outside versatility which will be coveted.  My big concern with him is he's a slow reader.  Really struggled to key on what Georgia was doing and consistently fell out of position and took awful angles to the ball.  Played slow and scared, and that's why I'm having a hard time buying into him as CB1.  I tell myself to look past the bad film and think about the traits, but he's not that big or fast, and sometimes that film is a window into a player's personality.  And I just don't know how sharp or tough he is.  He's an enigma for me and I hope he gets picked before us.

 

- Kelee Ringo: elite traits but film from this season is not very good.  There is some laziness and some tightness in his work in man on the outside.  Can the coaches unlock a better gear/motor from him?  Can they clean up his man coverage technique or is he just kind of a low IQ player who falls a step behind?  He has the natural talent to be a dominant man corner.  His strength is elite for the position and he is super physical, and his speed looks top notch. He's 6'2 215.  He can match up in man coverage with any receiver, he just gets beat too much and really looks hitchy/stiff-hipped in his transition steps, plus he just looks slow in finding the ball and reading his match up.

 

- Cam Smith: smart player with good instincts and competitiveness.  Easy runner with fluid hips in man.  Good height and length.  Good field reader in zone with natural ball skills.  Very noticeable lack of functional strength.  Competes in the run game and sticks his hat in on open field tackles but looks like he really has trouble holding inside leverage, and he gets shoved around by blockers on the outside.  He is always going to be the nail and not the hammer in collisions.

 

- Clark Phillips: physical alpha corner with strong ball skills.  Heat-seeking missile as a tackler to disrupt screens and outside runs and hits with pop.  Very aggressive playing the ball over the top.   Excellent play recognition, soft hands, and lightning fast closing speed = tons of picks.  I would have voted for him over Hodges-Thomlinson to win the Thorpe.  His film has been the best of any of the corners in this year's class IMO, but he is really short and has T-Rex arms.  There is no way this dude can single up on the Davante Adamses of the NFL and not get torched.  He's probably going to move inside and play zones in the NFL and the NFL doesn't draft small zone corners in the first round.  BUT, I'd love to have him.  I see his best case scenario as an Asante Samuel Jr type of player, although he doesn't have Samuel's power and he's not the same level of fearsome striker.  Samuel is a head hunter.

 

- Devon Witherspoon: he was my sleeper I was hoping for in the second round.  He's my favorite corner in the class, and it probably makes sense for him to go near the end of round 1.  Lockdown man coverage with good size and nice ball skills.  Very physical, this guy is a striker and he is really tough to play through at the catch point and in the contact window.  I don't know what his long speed is, and could see him running slower than the other top guys in the class.  Definitely isn't as fluid and effortless carrying outside speed deep as Cam Smith is, and probably not as explosive as Ringo either.  Doesn't have Porter Jr's length.  I'm thinking CB5 for him, but I'm hopeful that means he'll still be there when we pick though.  I think he's the Jaylon Johnson of this year's class.

 

- Joey Porter Jr: tall, lanky CB with the best length in the class.  The 40s will do a lot to sort this class out, but if he runs well, then he's probably going to be CB1.  Ringo is a lot thicker and stronger than him, but Porter's film is better and I think he's probably the smarter player.  Definitely has better length too, he's got the kind of physical talent to be a lockdown outside corner a la Ahmad Gardner.  Good reactive athleticism too, and the dude can hit.  He would be a good fit for us, but this kid is going top 15 if his 40 checks out.  Hands are kind of stoney which is a bummer, and he definitely needs to get stronger.  But his frame is big and he can definitely add some bulk and strength to it.  I see his ceiling as being somewhere between Gardner and Trevon Diggs.  This would be my CB1 but his film is not as good as Witherspoon's.

[Koolblue13]

I like when dudes have a pedigree. 

[Going Commando]

6 hours ago, Panninho said:

If Jaxon Smith-Njigba is there when we pick, boy that would be tough pass. WR ain't a need obviously but him working out of the slot alongside Dotson and Terry would be ridiculous. 

 

I'm with you on this.  The caveats: his long speed is nothing special and he's not super sudden so he's going to have to play crafty and strong to keep NFL corners from just sitting on his underneath game and daring him and his QB to go over the top.  But I think he can cope with a lack of long speed with his natural ability to change pace and he is really slick about changes of direction.  He's got this kind of unusual blocky, short-striding movement style that is really hard to read.  You can't tell when the changes of direction is coming, and it he is really dangerous on late breaks in the middle zones and in YAC opportunities on underneath throws as a result.  He doesn't look like a typical YAC monster at all but then it's like a guaranteed 8 yards on very basic screens with him because you can't tell when the cut is coming.

 

And the main thing with him is he has some of the best hands I've ever seen.  He's an even more natural plucker at the college level than Justin Jefferson was, and he really takes the burden off of you as a QB to be sharp in the middle of the field.  Just get it in his vicinity and he'll pluck it with those late hands and tuck it in and it'll be like a 17 yard gain.  He's a handful to cover, you can't read his hands at all and it's already hard to read where that late break is coming.

 

This kid profiles like an absolute workhorse slot receiver who would probably be our #1 weapon in a talent-laden receiver room.  He's got some AJ Brown in him and I definitely think he's better than all of the corners in this class.

[Zim489]

Too bad we dont need any more Slot WRs. Need an X. Terry is better in a Z. 

[philibusters]

7 hours ago, Going Commando said:

 

I was skeptical of Ringo too but I've come around on him.  Corner is a tricky position to project because the position is soooo much more physically demanding in the NFL than it is in college.  Traits are more important for corner than any other position, and finding guys with size/power and speed are the key.  I can't count the number of times I've been wrong about college corners who are playmaking studs with superior feel for the game, but then get to the NFL and do nothing because they physically can't match up.  Sometimes you get dudes who are obvious alphas and studs at the college level like Jaycee Horn and Jaylon Johnson and they project clean to the NFL level.  But most of the time, you need to look past warty tape for the big/fast guys who didn't play that well, or by contrast, the stellar tape from the guys that are just to skinny or small or slow to hang with NFL athleticism in man coverage.

 

I am a huge Maryland Terrapin fan, but of all the Terp prospects over the 20 years of my fandom, it was a corner prospect that I most underestimated in terms of their NFL potential (I have overestimated the NFL potential of quite a few Terp prospects of the years).  The corner was JC Jackson.  With the Patriots he became a pro bowler, posting 9 and 8 interceptions in consecutive years.  At Maryland he left after his junior year after starting two seasons.  In his two years as a starter he was a good player, but nothing more.  Flashed size and speed, but had a number of plays where he failed to make plays on the ball despite being in position and some pass interferences.  I thought he was making a big mistake going early (and in fairness he did go undrafted).  I thought based on his size and speed he may be worth a late round flier, but I wasn't dead set on Washington drafting him in the sixth or seventh round, thought the most likely scenario was that he would be out of the league in a couple years.  But he was 6'1 200 pounds and fast so he did always have the traits.

[Koolblue13]

Ryan Clark made an interesting point today that with WRs developing such elite traits, guys who are 6'1" 210 or so are finding it more sexy to play CB instead or WR, so the tendency of CBs to be bigger is becoming more common.

[Skinsinparadise]

We asked our NFL Nation reporters for early insight into every team's draft plans. What position(s) should each team focus on as a result of the 2022 season? Who will be in the market for a quarterback in a 2023 class with plenty of high-end options?

There is still a bunch of time between now and when Round 1 begins on April 27, but let's start the draft conversation with the AFC East.

 

Washington Commanders

Projected first-round pick: No. 21

The Commanders have eight selections in the draft, three coming in the seventh round. They do not have a third-round pick because of the Carson Wentz trade but likely will get one for losing guard Brandon Scherff to free agency last offseason. They're in a good position to address a few areas. Washington needs more depth at corner and could use its first pick there. Quarterback could be an option depending on how the position shakes out -- Wentz has no guaranteed money and can be cut; Taylor Heinicke will be a free agent and Sam Howell is an unknown. The Commanders need more quality interior offensive linemen and speed everywhere. -- John Keim

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2023/story/_/id/35245888/nfl-draft-2023-nuggets-needs-picks-need-know-all-32-teams-quarterback-options-order-fits

[FLSkinz83]

I don't think we have three 7th round picks.   From what I've seen We're getting a 3rd for Scherff and a 6th for Settle.

[Ball Security]

9 minutes ago, FLSkinz83 said:

I don't think we have three 7th round picks.   From what I've seen We're getting a 3rd for Scherff and a 6th for Settle.

Eight picks total. One in each round except for the two in the sixth.  Third round is compensatory, like you said.

[FLSkinz83]

4 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

Eight picks total. One in each round except for the two in the sixth.  Third round is compensatory, like you said.

 

Read above where Keim says we have three in the 7th.

[Ball Security]

1 hour ago, FLSkinz83 said:

 

Read above where Keim says we have three in the 7th.

Yeah, I don’t think he’s correct here.  I’ve seen no indication that they traded any of their 4-7 picks from any sites that track this stuff.  Someone on Twitter should ask him about that.

[Koolblue13]

I felt like we were lacking a bunch of picks for some reason, so that makes me feel a lot better.

[Zim489]

 

[Going Commando]

This year's first round is better than last year's, except at OL, and there is more depth at CB but the top end prospects aren't as good as Stingley and Gardner were.  On the whole, the first round offensive skill talent is way better this year, and I think just under half the first round should be QBs, WRs, TEs, and RBs. 

 

But figure you've got about 10 DLs/rush LBers in first round play and they almost never fall, and then about five first round corners + Branch = ~17 first rounders on defense.  Then Skoronski and PJJr are first round locks, and probably one or two more OLs will go first round and you likely have ~20 spots taken up in the first 31 sans offensive skill players.  That means there are going to be some fallers and huge bargains for us if we draft in the 20s.  This is the round to beef up our offense with an elite weapon by sitting tight and going BPA.

[Zim489]

8 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

This year's first round is better than last year's, except at OL, and there is more depth at CB but the top end prospects aren't as good as Stingley and Gardner were.  On the whole, the first round offensive skill talent is way better this year, and I think just under half the first round should be QBs, WRs, TEs, and RBs. 

 

But figure you've got about 10 DLs/rush LBers in first round play and they almost never fall, and then about five first round corners + Branch = ~17 first rounders on defense.  Then Skoronski and PJJr are first round locks, and probably one or two more OLs will go first round and you likely have ~20 spots taken up in the first 31 sans offensive skill players.  That means there are going to be some fallers and huge bargains for us if we draft in the 20s.  This is the round to beef up our offense with an elite weapon by sitting tight and going BPA.

I think the top 10 is weaker though outside of the better QBs. No elite Corner. No elite Tackle. No elite WR. Will Anderson is good/great but clearly a step down from the recent run of the DEs.

[mhd24]

11 minutes ago, Going Commando said:

This year's first round is better than last year's, except at OL, and there is more depth at CB but the top end prospects aren't as good as Stingley and Gardner were.  On the whole, the first round offensive skill talent is way better this year, and I think just under half the first round should be QBs, WRs, TEs, and RBs. 

 

But figure you've got about 10 DLs/rush LBers in first round play and they almost never fall, and then about five first round corners + Branch = ~17 first rounders on defense.  Then Skoronski and PJJr are first round locks, and probably one or two more OLs will go first round and you likely have ~20 spots taken up in the first 31 sans offensive skill players.  That means there are going to be some fallers and huge bargains for us if we draft in the 20s.  This is the round to beef up our offense with an elite weapon by sitting tight and going BPA.

 

Yeah, if the stars align, obviously OL would be great, but I doubt we'll be in a position to take the top two OL.  Otherwise, we could take anyone.  CB would be nice, but this staff has shown they can identify and develop DBs.  We obviously don't need him, but would you say screw and take Robinson (unlikely he is there) or Gibbs if they were on the board?  Gibson is a FA in a year and while BROB has been great, you always need two RBs.  JD is also cut candidate.

[Zim489]

1 minute ago, mhd24 said:

screw and take Robinson