The LineBacker Thread- Looking for our Man in the Middle

[Koolblue13]

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Except he was out on the slot to his side quite often, unless my memory is failing. That makes the alignment a 4-2.

 

Speaking personnel wise, though, I’d rather have Collins on a slot than Davis or Holcomb. But Collins isn’t ideal. I’d actually use Curl as the Buffalo nickel, replace Holcomb or Davis with a true inside backer (not a MIKE who are slow downhill attacking backers protected by the 1-technique and aligned in a 00 tech) and make that the primary personnel grouping. Curl can play in the box if there is no slot to his side and the backers can bump to a true 4-3 if that is desired.

 

I don’t trust either of the two we have as a 00 thumper. They are both more 4-2 ILBs but lacking something. Holcomb is 50/50 in coverage and not downhill enough. Davis is great sideline to sideline but has no killer instinct. He’s fast and able to cover ground. 
 

The problem with a traditional base set of 3 backers INCLUDING a true MIKE is that we would have Collins AND Davis/Holcomb aligned over the slots. The true MIKE, who is a traditional downhill thumper, would be in a 30, 10 or gap alignment and Davis or Holcomb have to flex over a slot.

 

Can cover that with zone, but Will Jackson struggles more in that and we have to get pressure with our front four. I don’t love Holcomb or Davis setting the edge. 
 

Replace one of them with a Kuechly type (people refer to him as a MIKE, but he was a true unicorn. Could run, cover, play aggressive downhill and diagnose… I consider that man to be a backer that can do anything).

 

So maybe we are saying the same thing but using different terms here.

I think if you remove the assumption that a MLB isn't going to be playing a lot of coverage and I think we're saying the same thing. A true Mike has to be able to cover, otherwise Mayo would be a great Mike. When I think of a Mike, I think a guy who will be covering the middle dropping back, as well as blitzing A gaps and following backs side to side. 

 

 

[KDawg]

6 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I think if you remove the assumption that a MLB isn't going to be playing a lot of coverage and I think we're saying the same thing. A true Mike has to be able to cover, otherwise Mayo would be a great Mike. When I think of a Mike, I think a guy who will be covering the middle dropping back, as well as blitzing A gaps and following backs side to side. 

 

 

A true MIKE generally would be responsible for a back in man and the hook zone in a zone coverage. True 00 MIKE backers don’t do a whole lot more. Urlacher broke the mold a bit with the Tampa 2 stuff. He was more of a true MIKE that was better in coverage. Ray Lewis, too. But those are unicorns. They could have been a 4-2 ILB easily.

 

I think the hang up here is 100% terminology seeing this response. How we’d fix it seems to be a touch different but I think we both agree that we could upgrade the ILB spot… MIKE or otherwise.

Edited February 6, 2022 by KDawg

[Koolblue13]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

A true MIKE generally would be responsible for a back in man and the hook zone in a zone coverage. True 00 MIKE backers don’t do a whole lot more. Urlacher broke the mold a bit with the Tampa 2 stuff. He was more of a true MIKE that was better in coverage. Ray Lewis, too. But those are unicorns. They could have been a 4-2 ILB easily.

 

I think the hang up here is 100% terminology seeing this response. How we’d fix it seems to be a touch different but I think we both agree that we could upgrade the ILB spot… MIKE or otherwise.

Agreed and if we somehow came away with Lloyd in this draft, we'd have our unicorn.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

Agreed and if we somehow came away with Lloyd in this draft, we'd have our unicorn.

I’d love Lloyd. But that first is going to be used on a QB. If it’s not we’re doomed anyways. Wilson or a rookie.

 

Though a trade back could happen and that could change things a bit but how far back can we go and still see Lloyd on the board?

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

I’d love Lloyd. But that first is going to be used on a QB. If it’s not we’re doomed anyways. Wilson or a rookie.

 

Though a trade back could happen and that could change things a bit but how far back can we go and still see Lloyd on the board?

Figure someone is going to want to move up for a QB, unless a bunch go crazy early. Lloyd and Dean, one or both aren't making it past Philly at 15,16,19 even though they haven't drafted a LBer in the first round in over 30 years (amazing and having more success than Dallas who routinely does). So, if maybe Baltimore wants to come up for a CB we could slide down to 15 and take Lloyd, then use both 2nds to come up for Howell or Ridder. I don't know, but it should be a fun off season.

[Koolblue13]

Exciting times. Should be able to sign a MLB soon. FA actually doesn't look too bad for it.

 

Wagner would probably want upwards of $20mil, but adding a veteran like that in the middle would be amazing for our very young defense. 

 

Campbell would be a great add if GB can't afford him.

[ColonialWBSkinsFan]

50 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Exciting times. Should be able to sign a MLB soon. FA actually doesn't look too bad for it.

 

Wagner would probably want upwards of $20mil, but adding a veteran like that in the middle would be amazing for our very young defense. 

 

Campbell would be a great add if GB can't afford him.

 

It's just money     And the cap is going up at least $25M this year and likely will increase every year following.  Just go make it happen!

[Koolblue13]

44 minutes ago, ColonialWBSkinsFan said:

 

It's just money     And the cap is going up at least $25M this year and likely will increase every year following.  Just go make it happen!

That's how I feel too. Just do it.

[Brixtion_skin]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

Exciting times. Should be able to sign a MLB soon. FA actually doesn't look too bad for it.

 

Wagner would probably want upwards of $20mil, but adding a veteran like that in the middle would be amazing for our very young defense. 

 

Campbell would be a great add if GB can't afford him.

In the unlikley event Wagner comes here, it would be great.  He would be a great leader & teacher for the LB group.   On a slight divergence, I would like Von Miller to come here.  He could get CY to chase some chickens and learn from a true great (Von MIller not the chickens) 

[method man]

I’ve said this in other threads…usually I’d be up for signing Wagner or Campbell to a big deal. However, this draft is the deepest one I can remember at off ball linebacker. I am ultra confident that this team can get a day 1 starter at MLB in the second round, whether it is Andersen, Mumma, Chenal, Harris, Clark or someone else. Save the $$$ and use it on a position of need that will be tough to address in the draft such as free safety or #2 WR

[ColonialWBSkinsFan]

1 hour ago, method man said:

I’ve said this in other threads…usually I’d be up for signing Wagner or Campbell to a big deal. However, this draft is the deepest one I can remember at off ball linebacker. I am ultra confident that this team can get a day 1 starter at MLB in the second round, whether it is Andersen, Mumma, Chenal, Harris, Clark or someone else. Save the $$$ and use it on a position of need that will be tough to address in the draft such as free safety or #2 WR

 

Andersen, Mumma, Chenal, Harris, Clark, et al MAY end up being studs, but given the general crapshoot of drafting in general (and especially our draft history), go for the sure thing and draft a project to groom.  We have the cap space to do it, won't cost us any compensatory picks for any of our FA's that go elsewhere (Scherff, McKissick, etc.), and we can still draft the MLB of the future.  But we can also benefit in the PRESENT from a future HOF'er.  

 

This is a no-brainer, IF (and yes, that is a big IF) Wags is willing to come here.

[Inigo Montoya]

don’t mess with a maybe for the 2nd most important position and hole on our team 
looks like QB will escape us once again, build the defense we were supposed to have this year and pay Wagner whatever he wants in a 3 year deal

[Koolblue13]

2 hours ago, method man said:

I’ve said this in other threads…usually I’d be up for signing Wagner or Campbell to a big deal. However, this draft is the deepest one I can remember at off ball linebacker. I am ultra confident that this team can get a day 1 starter at MLB in the second round, whether it is Andersen, Mumma, Chenal, Harris, Clark or someone else. Save the $$$ and use it on a position of need that will be tough to address in the draft such as free safety or #2 WR

I'm the biggest Holcomb fan around, but if we drafted someone after signing a great Vet, it doesn't make us worse.

 

Day two will also have some excellent FSs and WRs which we also need.

 

I'm all about drafting a stud MLB for the next decade, but what veteran leadership could do for a super talented team that free Lance's far too much cant be overstated. 

[rumplestilskin]

Hicks got released. He is another vey solid option. 

[Koolblue13]

So freaking many LBers out there in FA and this draft is completely stacked as well.

[IrepDC]

1 hour ago, rumplestilskin said:

Hicks got released. He is another vey solid option. 

This is what I came here to say. We have options.

[method man]

13 hours ago, ColonialWBSkinsFan said:

 

Andersen, Mumma, Chenal, Harris, Clark, et al MAY end up being studs, but given the general crapshoot of drafting in general (and especially our draft history), go for the sure thing and draft a project to groom.  We have the cap space to do it, won't cost us any compensatory picks for any of our FA's that go elsewhere (Scherff, McKissick, etc.), and we can still draft the MLB of the future.  But we can also benefit in the PRESENT from a future HOF'er.  

 

This is a no-brainer, IF (and yes, that is a big IF) Wags is willing to come here.

I wouldn’t call someone like Muma a project. The guy is a day 1 starter

[Est.1974]

6 hours ago, rumplestilskin said:

Hicks got released. He is another vey solid option. 

Yep he’d be ideal.

 

Teams must also love the draft depth.

[Zim489]

By the way Ron and Co have been talking I dont know if LB is going to be a target early which IMO is a mistake 

[method man]

1 minute ago, Zim489 said:

By the way Ron and Co have been talking I dont know if LB is going to be a target early which IMO is a mistake 

 

I think it's more likely than not that they take one in rd 1 or rd 2. They are having multiple meetings with many of the favorites in the draft thread - I know Andersen and Mumma for sure, maybe Lloyd as well. For the Chenal fans, I seriously doubt they consider him - he feels like more of a 3-4 ILB. Remember that Zaven Collins was not someone they were considering because they felt about him the same way despite his athleticism.

[Koolblue13]

25 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

By the way Ron and Co have been talking I dont know if LB is going to be a target early which IMO is a mistake 

Tis the season for misdirection. 

[Skinsinparadise]

36 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

Tis the season for misdirection. 

 

 

[Koolblue13]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

End of the season Cole was saying he wanted to be the MLB and Ron straight up said no. He was about as open about Holcomb being our mike as he was about Heinicke being our QB.

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, Koolblue13 said:

End of the season Cole was saying he wanted to be the MLB and Ron straight up said no. He was about as open about Holcomb being our mike as he was about Heinicke being our QB.

 

Yeah.  I did see that Cole wanted to do it.  I also heard Rivera -- Keim, etc talk about how much better Holcomb played better with Mayo directing him.

[Warhead36]

The league is transitioning to more 2 LB sets. You're not gonna be in 4-3 very often because so many teams run 3 WR. If you feel like Holcomb and Davis are a capable 2 LB duo, then you don't really need to invest heavy resources in a 3rd LB. 

 

I do think we'll address LB in the draft but it might not be till round 2. With the 11th overall pick you need to hit a home run on a position of significant value like WR or CB.