The Official ES (or E...C) 2022 Free Agency Thread Signed G Andrew Norwell, Obada, Trai Turner...Goodbye Scherff, Kyle Allen, Tim Settle

[FLSkinz83]

49 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

So you dug up a Dan Snyder quote from 2000 during Free Agency? 

 

 

 

Ha. no.  I've been seeing that Matt Damon commercial and added the "not conservative" part   

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, NYSkins21 said:

While I agree with your distain for DS and the negative impact he has on his franchise, let's not lose focus on who has been making personnel moves of late. Good and the not so good.. This has been Ron's team. He's been brought in to change the culture and he has internally. This continues to be a work in progress. We haven't seen the benefits yet but they're coming.

 

I am not losing focus on Ron.  I've talked about Ron plenty, what i've liked and what i haven't.   I've mostly liked the job Ron has done.

 

But whether I like it or not, in my book, i am always going to be focused on Dan.  Every time, we get the narrative that this time Dan isn't interfering -- stories surface later on that he did.

 

And even if this ends up the first regime he doesn't mess with -- coaches still have to deal with his messes.  It's not as easy to coach this team versus others.  You have to major in knowing how to block the noise. 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 11, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[bowhunter]

@Skinsinparadise Quote "I am not losing focus on Ron.  I've talked about Ron plenty, what i've liked and what i haven't.   I've mostly liked the job Ron has done."

 

I agree with you immeasurably. RR's greatest accomplishment here should not be measured in W/L columns. Ron has enough respect as a person/leader to keep this feces fiasco off the field. I strongly suggest that the only reason free agents will even take calls from the Ashburn area code is due to Ron. Whatever reach Snyder has into the organization at least out of the product. Snyders Brand stinks, but I can't imagine how low our low would be without RR's influence.

[CommanderInTheRye]

18 hours ago, RWJ said:

I'd rather they let D Payne hit FA after this season.  I think Payne is going to price himself out of range and I am really eager to see what Mathis brings to the DL. I think we will see superior play from Mathis compared to Payne IF Mathis stays in shape.  

 

 

I wonder what we could get for Daron in a trade this off season?

 

Is Payne on an expiring deal worth a 3rd and something else, a straight up 2nd, or maybe even a bit more if we can get a couple of teans bidding?

 

If so, I'd rather just bite the bullet and trade him now rather than play the--- "we can resign him but if we don't at least we'll get a late third two years down the road err uhm... that is as long as we don't sign someone too expensive that off season" game.

 

 

Edited May 11, 2022 by CommanderInTheRye

[Koolblue13]

Just now, CommanderInTheRye said:

 

 

I wonder what we could get for Daron in a trade this off season?

 

Is Payne on an expiring deal worth a 3rd and something else, a straight up 2nd, or maybe even something blmore if we can get a couple of teans bidding?

 

If so, I'd rather just bite the bullet and trade him now rather than play the--- "we can resign him but if we don't at least we'll get a late third two years down the road err as long as we don't sign someone too expensive that off season" game.

You don't think we'll be good this year?

[FootballZombie]

4 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

You don't think we'll be good this year?

 

I think its more about sustaining good play in the future, not just this year.

 

I like Payne, but if we don't want to sign the guy to a LTD, and someone offers me a 2, he's a ghost. I'd probably be willing to do it for a 3rd, but I'd have to have his backup plan/stopgap already in place.

[CommanderInTheRye]

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

You don't think we'll be good this year?

 

Hell no! In my heart I'm gassing up the Model T and getting ready to drive straight to State Farm Stadium in Arizona to cheer on the Commanders in the Super Bowl!

 

I just don't think it's the best long term strategy to base the future of your club on decisions that are completely out of your control-- ie Daron electing to resign with us.

 

I'd much rather be proactive, take matters into our own hands and eliminate the uncertainty now. This allows us to plan for the future with less guess work. 

 

 

[Koolblue13]

3 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

 

Hell no! In my heart I'm gassing up the Model T and getting ready to drive straight to State Farm Stadium in Arizona to cheer on the Commanders in the Super Bowl!

 

I just don't think it's the best long term strategy to base the future of your club on decisions that are completely out of your control-- ie Daron electing to resign with us.

 

I'd much rather be proactive, take matters into our own hands and eliminate the uncertainty now. This allows us to plan for the future with less guess work. 

 

 

I had a 28 Sedan. Great ride. Mine was a rat.

 

I think his value, outside of a 1rst, is on the team. We get a future 3rd for him if his contract expires after the season anyway.

[Skinsinparadise]

As for in the category of what i don't like about Ron, its him having it seems like a one size fits all style of slow playing contracts.  As I've mentioned before, Ron liking the idea of kicking the can on contract extensions to after the draft likely ends up costing this team a bigger cap hit.  Slow playing the contract according to the over cap guys changed a contract that would have likely yielded 18-19 million at the start of the season to 24-25 million now. 

 

 

 

Edited May 11, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[FuriousD]

46 minutes ago, bowhunter said:

@Skinsinparadise 

 

I agree with you immeasurably. RR's greatest accomplishment here should not be measured in W/L columns. Ron has enough respect as a person/leader to keep this feces fiasco off the field. I strongly suggest that the only reason free agents will even take calls from the Ashburn area code is due to Ron. Whatever reach Snyder has into the organization at least out of the product. Snyders Brand stinks, but I can't imagine how low our low would be without RR's influence.

This = 110%!!

[Skinsinparadise]

 

The Full Breer comments.  I know some questioned JLC as a source when he said the contract has ways to go.  But I'll say Breer is almost as good as Schefter as for his accuracy.  

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/05/11/nfl-owners-would-love-for-walmart-heir-rob-walton-to-buy-the-broncos

From Bucks26 (@buckOH26): Terry McLaurin’s contact status?

Bucks! The contract, right now, is nowhere. Negotiations haven’t really started. And while there’s still time, it feels like the Commanders have already lost a lot of ground. At the beginning of the offseason, there’d been just two $20 million receivers in league history, one being Julio Jones in his prime and the other being DeAndre Hopkins after a trade. You could argue, at that point, $20 million was just for the elite of the elite. Since, Davante Adams, Stefon Diggs, Tyreek Hill and McLaurin’s draft classmate A.J. Brown have joined the club.

Brown, for his part, got a new money APY of $25 million over the four-year extension, and a true value of $20.8 million per over five years. And if you look at the two of them, drafted 25 picks apart in 2019, it’s hard to argue that McLaurin shouldn’t be right there with him:

• The smaller McLaurin’s been more durable, playing 46 games to Brown’s 43.
• McLaurin’s been more statistically prolific, with 222 catches for 3,090 yards and 14 touchdowns, though Brown has scored more (185 catches, 2,995 yards, 24 TDs).
• McLaurin’s been a captain the last two years; Brown never was one in Tennessee.

And none of this is to disparage Brown, who’s certainly bigger (6'1" and 225 pounds to 6'0" and 209 pounds) and younger (Brown’s 24, McLaurin’s 26), and arguably has a higher ceiling. It’s really just to illustrate that McLaurin wouldn’t be out of line to ask for what Brown got, especially after being strung along a little here by Washington.

Which is a lot more than it might’ve cost to re-up him in January or February.

(Not to go on a tangent but this is why I don’t understand why more teams aren’t more proactive with their young vets. I get that owners would rather keep the cash on ice in a lot of these cases, and invested with their hedge-fund buddies, but it sure looks to me like they get burned more often than not waiting longer into the offseason.)

Edited May 12, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

15 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

As for in the category of what i don't like about Ron, its him having it seems like a one size fits all style of slow playing contracts.  As I've mentioned before, Ron liking the idea of kicking the can on contract extensions to after the draft likely ends up costing this team a bigger cap hit.  Slow playing the contract according to the over cap guys changed a contract that would have likely yielded 18-19 million at the start of the season to 24-25 million now. 

I agree with what you're saying, my only question is...

 

Is that Ron, or is that Mayhew and Hurney?  It's all the same as he chose these guys - I'd just like to hope Ron isn't that deeply involved that he's deploying the slowplay strategy.

 

I'll also add that the slowplay strategy is complete and utter trash and makes absolutely no sense to me.  The entire world knows the price tag only goes up.

Edited May 11, 2022 by BatteredFanSyndrome

[CommanderInTheRye]

1 minute ago, Koolblue13 said:

I had a 28 Sedan. Great ride. Mine was a rat.

 

I think his value, outside of a 1rst, is on the team. We get a future 3rd for him if his contract expires after the season anyway.

 

 

What we agree on:

 

Offer a first and we're wrapping Daron in duct tape slapping a first class sticker on his butt and dropping him off at UPS that day.

 

What we disagree on:

 

That potential 3rd round pick you speak of has considerable opportunity cost applied to it.

 

1. We don't get it this year so we can use it in next years LOADED draft. We get it for a draft two years in the future.

 

2. We only get that hypothetical 3rd round pick if NEXT off season we don't sign any player(s) to contracts that the NFL would deem to be offsetting for the loss of Oayne. So next years free agency is hamstrung just as this years was when we lost Scherff.

 

3. That hypothetical 3rd round pick will come no earlier than the 97th pick in the entire draft and really should be considered as a post-third round pick or better yet as a pre-4th round pick.

 

4. I'm tired of us being a reactive, let's wait and see, team. I prefer to have a seize the day attitude. Sometimes it pays to cut your losses and just move on.

 

In chess they call it a tempo move.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, bowhunter said:

@Skinsinparadise Quote "I am not losing focus on Ron.  I've talked about Ron plenty, what i've liked and what i haven't.   I've mostly liked the job Ron has done."

 

I agree with you immeasurably. RR's greatest accomplishment here should not be measured in W/L columns. Ron has enough respect as a person/leader to keep this feces fiasco off the field. I strongly suggest that the only reason free agents will even take calls from the Ashburn area code is due to Ron. Whatever reach Snyder has into the organization at least out of the product. Snyders Brand stinks, but I can't imagine how low our low would be without RR's influence.

 

Ron's not perfect.  No coach or GM is.  But overall IMO he's done a really good job.

 

I agree with your point.  Dan is a hot mess.  They have the worst stadium.  Worst facilities.  They are national punchline.  They are bleeding fans.     They aren't an attractive destination for in demand players and coaches for multiple reasons.

 

Ron basically is residing in Sibera's version of the NFL.   And he has had to manage this through a name change, NFL and Congressional investigations and constant turmoil while managing his own cancer treatment.  Is there a coach with more noise and crap to deal with than this one?  He total deserves the award he won for facing obstacles.

 

He is a beacon of class in the middle of a crap storm.  Some want to see what happens if they remove the one element of class and respect this team has around the league and are intrigued to see what happens as if the horizon might be brighter to move on.  Not me.  IMO if they remove Rivera Sibera is going to feel even more like Siberia, much more IMO. 

 

 

Edited May 11, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

17 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I agree with what you're saying, my only question is...

 

Is that Ron, or is that Mayhew and Hurney?  It's all the same as he chose these guys - I'd just like to hope Ron isn't that deeply involved that he's deploying the slowplay strategy.

 

I'll also add that the slowplay strategy is complete and utter trash and makes absolutely no sense to me.  The entire world knows the price tag only goes up.

 

No way to know.  I am just guessing.  I am guessing its Ron because he talked about it in this way from the jump of the off season and he seems to be a creature of habits. 

 

And as I like to say people's strengths can be weaknesses too.  And I think Ron's strength is his consistency and even keel demeanor and positive outlook.  But sometimes that can backfire in some circumstances.  

 

Judging by his interviews including the ones pre-Martin-Marty is he comes off like a dude who loves structure and patterns and buys that the past is prologue.

 

Between that and him stressing from early this off season on how they got a deal with Jonathan Allen in the summer and that worked out well -- and how he liked to compartmentalize the off season when he explained the approach -- all in on FA first, then the draft, then extensions.

 

I does feel to me like this is a Ron's drill.  And look slow playing some contacts have certainly worked in FA.  But live by the sword, die by the sword.  I think they are dying by the sword with them getting carried away with the slow playing approach on Terry.

Edited May 11, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[Koolblue13]

13 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

 

 

What we agree on:

 

Offer a first and we're wrapping Daron in duct tape slapping a first class sticker on his butt and dropping him off at UPS that day.

 

What we disagree on:

 

That potential 3rd round pick you speak of has considerable opportunity cost applied to it.

 

1. We don't get it this year so we can use it in next years LOADED draft. We get it for a draft two years in the future.

 

2. We only get that hypothetical 3rd round pick if NEXT off season we don't sign any player(s) to contracts that the NFL would deem to be offsetting for the loss of Oayne. So next years free agency is hamstrung just as this years was when we lost Scherff.

 

3. That hypothetical 3rd round pick will come no earlier than the 97th pick in the entire draft and really should be considered as a post-third round pick or better yet as a pre-4th round pick.

 

4. I'm tired of us being a reactive, let's wait and see, team. I prefer to have a seize the day attitude. Sometimes it pays to cut your losses and just move on.

 

In chess they call it a tempo move.

 

 

1. it's still a proven young player, which is more valuable than a future 3rd.

 

2. Fair point.

 

3. Anyone trading pre or mid season for a run stopping DT is looking to close 1 weakness. Their 3rd will be close to the 97th anyway.

 

4. I'm in win now mode. This team catches fire this year, and it's possible, anything is possible.

 

I play chess too. I understand tempo. My tempo is to win now, becaus I think we can.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

And look slow playing some contacts have certainly worked in FA.  But live by the sword, die by the sword.  I think they are dying by the sword with them getting carried away with the slow playing approach on Terry.

I agree that it can work in FA, but I just don't see how it's ever a good idea to slow play a contract for a homegrown talent like Terry.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I agree that it can work in FA, but I just don't see how it's ever a good idea to slow play a contract for a homegrown talent like Terry.

 

I'll give them that what are the odds that the top contracts would jack up 20-25% in the span of a few months.   It's usually a slower burn than that.  I think where they really screwed up is you can see it building, and they still didn't take action, while a team like the Panthers did with D. Moore, where they locked him in for around 20 on March 18th.    Moore's numbers are very similar to Terrys. 

 

This FO decided to let it ride even further.  Panthers were smart to act, then when the dam started to break.  Other deals then followed the Moore deal.  By waiting some more, they cost themselves likely another 3-4 million further on the cap per year versus the Panthers.   And this isn't even delving into the idea that Terry's camp might be annoyed about the chill approach they are taking to this contract versus some other teams at the spot.  

 

I like Rivera a lot. But if there is one thing I had to pick that i don't is it feels like their narrative is they don't want to walk and chew gum at the same time.  But sometimes you got to suck it up and juggle mulltiple thiings versus enjoying the comfort of working through the off season in step by step phases. 

 

It almost feels like Rivera thinks it takes away from their excellence is they don't put 100% attention to each phase of the off season in a step by step method as it comes.  I get it, it feels very zen and in theory I get the principle behind it but it can also burn you.  Case in point -- Terry. 

[actorguy1]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

I does feel to me like this is a Ron's drill.  And look slow playing some contacts have certainly worked in FA.  But live by the sword, die by the sword.  I think they are dying by the sword with them getting carried away with the slow playing approach on Terry.

Why are we placing all the blame on Rivera? How do we know that McLaurin's agent didn't say "We prefer to wait until July to negotiate an extension"? It totally benefits his client.

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, actorguy1 said:

Why are we placing all the blame on Rivera? How do we know that McLaurin's agent didn't say "We prefer to wait until July to negotiate an extension"? It totally benefits his client.

 

Ron said it from the jump.  Insiders who I trust like Keim who covered the team has said the same.  

[CommanderInTheRye]

42 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

1. it's still a proven young player, which is more valuable than a future 3rd.

 

It's a proven young player absolutely.

 

However it's the value of that proven player for ONE year vs the value of whatever potential draft pick or picks we get if we trade him now  and the value of however many years those pick(s) play for us.

 

42 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

2. Fair point.

 

Thanks.

 

42 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

3. Anyone trading pre or mid season for a run stopping DT is looking to close 1 weakness. Their 3rd will be close to the 97th anyway.

 

That's one hell of an assumption leveraged on another assumption as if there's no other possibilities worth considering.

 

But let's say arguendo that I agree with your first assumption-- that the team that trades for Daron is covering for their only weakness.

 

From that alone one can't conclude anything about where they will select in the draft in a season that is yet to commence. 

 

The twisting road to the Super Bowl is littered each year with the corpses of teams that began the season believing they were destined for greatness only to stumble to their doom.

 

The old adage, "from worst to first" often comes true in the wake of last year's first becoming this years worst.

 

 

42 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

4. I'm in win now mode. This team catches fire this year, and it's possible, anything is possible.

 

 

Damn it I hope so.

 

I'm running out of tomorrow's to wait for.

 

 

42 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

I play chess too. I understand tempo.

My tempo is to win now, becaus I think we can.

 

Touche! 

 

I can't disagree with the sentiment at all.

 

It's always about winning and it's always about winning now because now is all that we're ever assured of.

 

That said, I think we can have it all. We can trade Payne-- provided the offer is worth it-- win this year and set ourselves up to win in the future too.

 

But if it meant losing our shot this year I say keep him. I'm just not sure his loss hurts us that much.

 

 

 

Well played, sir.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 11, 2022 by CommanderInTheRye

[Est.1974]

We draft a WR and a DT. Mayhew got quite upright in the draft presser saying ‘we know our needs’ better than those outside the org.

 

Got to think contracts for Mclaurin and Payne are 50/50 at best right now.

[CommDownMan]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The Full Breer comments.  I know some questioned JLC as a source when he said the contract has ways to go.  But I'll Breer is almost as good as Schefter as for his accuracy.  

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2022/05/11/nfl-owners-would-love-for-walmart-heir-rob-walton-to-buy-the-broncos

From Bucks26 (@buckOH26): Terry McLaurin’s contact status?

Bucks! The contract, right now, is nowhere. Negotiations haven’t really started. And while there’s still time, it feels like the Commanders have already lost a lot of ground. At the beginning of the offseason, there’d been just two $20 million receivers in league history, one being Julio Jones in his prime and the other being DeAndre Hopkins after a trade. You could argue, at that point, $20 million was just for the elite of the elite. Since, Davante Adams, Stefon Diggs, Tyreek Hill and McLaurin’s draft classmate A.J. Brown have joined the club.

Brown, for his part, got a new money APY of $25 million over the four-year extension, and a true value of $20.8 million per over five years. And if you look at the two of them, drafted 25 picks apart in 2019, it’s hard to argue that McLaurin shouldn’t be right there with him:

• The smaller McLaurin’s been more durable, playing 46 games to Brown’s 43.
• McLaurin’s been more statistically prolific, with 222 catches for 3,090 yards and 14 touchdowns, though Brown has scored more (185 catches, 2,995 yards, 24 TDs).
• McLaurin’s been a captain the last two years; Brown never was one in Tennessee.

And none of this is to disparage Brown, who’s certainly bigger (6'1" and 225 pounds to 6'0" and 209 pounds) and younger (Brown’s 24, McLaurin’s 26), and arguably has a higher ceiling. It’s really just to illustrate that McLaurin wouldn’t be out of line to ask for what Brown got, especially after being strung along a little here by Washington.

Which is a lot more than it might’ve cost to re-up him in January or February.

(Not to go on a tangent but this is why I don’t understand why more teams aren’t more proactive with their young vets. I get that owners would rather keep the cash on ice in a lot of these cases, and invested with their hedge-fund buddies, but it sure looks to me like they get burned more often than not waiting longer into the offseason.)

 

So I agree the waiting has impacted things, but didn't we HAVE to wait on a McClaurin contract until the new league year in March 16th?  I believe it's after 3 seasons, which wasn't official until then.

 

Godwin got 20mill per before FA, Adams was March 17th signing, Hill a few days after.  

 

As much as we're annoyed it's still not progressing, McClaurin's agent shouldn't have considered in March.  Considering many of the arguments comparing to Brown, but also just how much this team values him, he should wait to earn that extra.  I'd be very curious if they were even willing to meet at the table at that point.  (But it really should be started at this point, I can't imagine they still won't sit, unless Terry doesn't have interest in returning...)

 

 

Edited May 11, 2022 by CommDownMan

[Koolblue13]

24 minutes ago, CommanderInTheRye said:

 

It's a proven young player absolutely.

 

However it's the value of that proven player for ONE year vs the value of whatever potential draft pick or picks we get if we trade him now  and the value of however many years those pick(s) play for us.

 

 

Thanks.

 

 

That's one hell of an assumption leveraged on another assumption as if there's no other possibilities worth considering.

 

But let's say arguendo that I agree with your first assumption-- that the team that trades for Daron is covering for their only weakness.

 

From that alone one can't conclude anything about where they will select in the draft in a season that is yet to commence. 

 

The twisting road to the Super Bowl is littered each year with the corpses of teams that began the season believing they were destined for greatness only to stumble to their doom.

 

The old adage, "from worst to first" often comes true in the wake of last year's first becoming this years worst.

 

 

 

 

Damn it I hope so.

 

I'm running out of tomorrow's to wait for.

 

 

 

Touche! 

 

I can't disagree with the sentiment at all.

 

It's always about winning and it's always about winning now because now is all that we're ever assured of.

 

That said, I think we can have it all. We can trade Payne-- provided the offer is worth it-- win this year and set ourselves up to win in the future too.

 

But if it meant losing our shot this year I say keep him. I'm just not sure his loss hurts us that much.

 

 

 

Well played, sir.

 

 

 

 

Thanks. 

 

I dont this were too far apart. I'm a really big fan of Payne and the player I watch the most, so I'm invested. I think it's going to be really fun watching the Alabama Three in the middle of our defense this year and I'm really excited about it.

[Darth Tater]

On 5/9/2022 at 1:20 PM, Voice_of_Reason said:

Just for history sake, I'm going to pick at the bolded.  I don't think we were zeros before Gibbs. We were 10-6 in 1979, and then 6-10 in 1980 before Pardee was fired and Gibbs was hired in 1981.  Then we shot off like a rocket, but we didn't have a losing record from '71 - '79.  They were somewhere between an average to good team in the 70's (with a SB appearance)  that exploded into a (short) dynasty.  

 

I think the zeros to heroes was actually before then.  I'd say Lombardi's first year and then following into George Allen's years, we went from zero to hero. Before Lombardi became coach in 1969 (and led the team to a 7-5-2 record), the last time the team had a winning record was 1955. That's 14 years of losing seasons.  After '69, however, they were between good to great until 1992. So I'd say 0 to Hero would 1969.  And they went to the SB after the 1972 season.  

 

But whatever.   

Yeah, I was being a bit generous (?) with just before Gibbs.  Even in Pardee's last year, we did have a good defense (I recall, that is why Gibbs was told to keep Petitbon). They also had a lot of the core for the teams of 1981 through 1984 already in place. I kind of skipped over Lombardi because he really only had 1 year so you'd have to extrapolate (we did have a decent offense to 1972, which I think may have been Lombardi's legacy).