The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Voice_of_Reason]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Jay has been pretty direct that Kirk was the best QB he had.  Several different reporters asked him that question.

 

He has been recently.  He wasn’t in 2014.  
 

And that’s not a knock.  Kirk was playing very spotty.  It wasn’t clear then Kirk would develop into a starting QB.  

But I remember clearly a conversation between him and Kevin where Kevin pressed him on Colt, and Jay basically said he could be a starter but got injured at every opportunity, and that’s what held him back.

 

Look, we all know Jay had a soft spot for Colt.  It’s fine.  He wanted him to start the 2019 season but he couldn’t. Then he inserted him for his last game.  

[mistertim]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

I think this pretty much seals it. Wentz will be going back in. Ron wouldn't be going out of his way to say this sort of stuff if they had any other plans.

Edited November 12, 2022 by mistertim

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I think this pretty much seals it. Wentz will be going back in. Ron wouldn't be going out of his way to say this sort of stuff if they had any other plans.

 

I got no problem with it except for 1 thing -- don't blow the 2nd round pick.  Don't let Carson get to 70%

 

I'd love to see Howell but I don't think that's happening until Wentz gets his 2nd shot and if he fails, which I suspect he will, then they open up door #3. 

 

I still think Wentz > Heinicke.  But IMO neither is the answer.

7 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

He has been recently.  He wasn’t in 2014.  
 

And that’s not a knock.  Kirk was playing very spotty.  It wasn’t clear then Kirk would develop into a starting QB.  

But I remember clearly a conversation between him and Kevin where Kevin pressed him on Colt, and Jay basically said he could be a starter but got injured at every opportunity, and that’s what held him back.

 

Look, we all know Jay had a soft spot for Colt.  It’s fine.  He wanted him to start the 2019 season but he couldn’t. Then he inserted him for his last game.  

 

Sure I know about 2014 but in 2015 it all changed.  Don't really care though.

 

I don't really put a lot of stock when a coach loves a player who isn't great because of whatever reason.  lol, I recall I used to call in to a radio show called Redskins Lunch and Gibbs would take questions from fans.   I hyped one time James Thrash -- who was Gibbs version of who Ryan Grant was to Jay -- and you'd think Gibbs was talking about a close relative, gushed about Thrash.

Edited November 12, 2022 by Skinsinparadise

[wit33]

11 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I doubt Buccaneer fans even remember Heinicke's name, let alone think about him. It's not like he tossed 5 TDs in that game. He threw for 256 yards and 1 TD.

 

And your argument is that Heinicke played decently vs one good team, therefore the eggs he laid vs other good teams, especially in the latter half of the season, should forgotten?

I’m choosing to have fun with it and root for the underdog. Nothing more. I have a different goal than most fans, I want meaningful games to end season and get bonus football. If Heineke pulls off a miracle like he did against Bucs last season Washington will be right in the mix for a playoff spot and I’ll continue to have meaningful games to watch. 
 

Im bias, as I dont think there’s much separation from teams 6-20, as a result, feel like there’s always a chance to capture momentum in a season and get on memorable run. Heineke will win, the football gods will make sure of it. 

[mistertim]

11 minutes ago, wit33 said:

I’m choosing to have fun with it and root for the underdog. Nothing more. I have a different goal than most fans, I want meaningful games to end season and get bonus football. If Heineke pulls off a miracle like he did against Bucs last season Washington will be right in the mix for a playoff spot and I’ll continue to have meaningful games to watch. 
 

Im bias, as I dont think there’s much separation from teams 6-20, as a result, feel like there’s always a chance to capture momentum in a season and get on memorable run. Heineke will win, the football gods will make sure of it. 

 

I think the miracle we'd have be hoping for is from the defense, not the offense. Heinicke isn't a prolific passer and doesn't throw many TDs. That's not suddenly going to change, especially against a defense that has the most interceptions in the NFL.

 

So in order to win we'd have to get lucky on two fronts: Heinicke would have to not get picked off a bunch (IIRC he has the highest % of turnover worthy throws in the NFL...at least per PFF) and our defense would have to hold the NFL's 2nd most prolific offense to much less than they've been scoring.

[redskinss]

Another thing that goes a little unnoticed with Heinicke is that the one thing he's noted for having is exceptional moxie and even that has declined considerably since the Tampa play-off game.

He used to be electric at moving around in the pocket and making plays with his legs, there was just something a little magical about his movement and scrambling and that to my eyes seems diminished. 

Now he just has good pocket awareness and decent running skills.

Combine that with his complete lack of arm talent and its tough to get excited about him being on the field.

[FootballZombie]

41 minutes ago, mistertim said:

I think this pretty much seals it. Wentz will be going back in. Ron wouldn't be going out of his way to say this sort of stuff if they had any other plans.

 

I figure Wentz was coming back regardless and I don't see that as Ron going out of his way at all to prime the till. Just saying nice things about one of the QBs on his roster.

 

What else would he say in this situation?

"He is regressing in his time off and has less comprehension of the O now as compared to when the season started?"

 

There was no reason to say anything other than what he said.

 

He would have nice things to say about Howell if asked, but it does not mean he is angling to set a guy up for playing time. Its just basic coach-speak.

[shemp nixon]

Is this Heinicke debate ever going to end? Great story, good dude... Marginal player. 

[mistertim]

Just now, shemp nixon said:

Is this Heinicke debate ever going to end? Great story, good dude... Marginal player. 

 

If history is any judge, it absolutely won't end until he's not on the team anymore. That's how it was with the Cult of Colt as well.

[Koolblue13]

I love Heinicke. I hope he goes on to have a really long career as a starter on an NFC East team that isn't us.

[Zim489]

3 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

After 2015, that clearly wasn't the case.  But going into 2015, there were a lot of questions....

From what I was told by some one who was in the FO at the time as a mutual friend of mine, after 2014 season Jay didnt want anything to do with Kirk after the benching. He mopped around and was a complete drag in the meetings. He asked for a trade but no one offered anything that offseason. Scotty Mac was hired that offseason to run things. So come training camp Jay is done with Robert. Cant coach him yada yada ya. Wants to go to Colt. Best chance to save his job. Scot was with the hell no youre not going to him. So he landed on Kirk.

 

Whats funny enough is Scot thought Jay was digging his own grave by not playing Rob. Colt was a non starter and Kirk wasnt really liked by the coaching staff nor much of the FO. If they lost that Tampa game (You like that game) Jay would have been fired and Kirk benched for Rob. All 3 of them gone at the end of the year. Scot would have brought in his staff and and coaches. We finally would have had the set up we all wanted with GM hire then coach hire. If the Bucs didnt run that sweep from the 1 yard line on 3rd down instead of taking their 6'5 250lb QB and sneaked it the entire Bruce/Jay era would be done.

 

Sigh... 

[method man]

2 hours ago, redskinss said:

Another thing that goes a little unnoticed with Heinicke is that the one thing he's noted for having is exceptional moxie and even that has declined considerably since the Tampa play-off game.

He used to be electric at moving around in the pocket and making plays with his legs, there was just something a little magical about his movement and scrambling and that to my eyes seems diminished. 

Now he just has good pocket awareness and decent running skills.

Combine that with his complete lack of arm talent and its tough to get excited about him being on the field.

He put on 15-20 pounds of muscle. That probably slowed him down some

[mistertim]

15 minutes ago, method man said:

He put on 15-20 pounds of muscle. That probably slowed him down some

 

Eh, I think it's more than that. It wasn't like he was trying to run but was getting chased down from behind by DTs or something. He was noticeably more reticent to run in 2021 than he had been vs Carolina and TB in 2020. Not just reticent, but even when he did he was doing stuff like running out of bounds way before guys got to him and before the first down marker.

 

It seemed like he was trying to avoid hits. I assume because he wanted to prolong his one big shot in the NFL, which I can understand. But in doing so he also took away his main weapon.

 

The coaches even essentially called him out publicly with (IIRC) both Ron and Scott saying they'd like to see him use his legs more.

[zCommander]

2 hours ago, shemp nixon said:

Is this Heinicke debate ever going to end?

Not until we get our own franchise QB like Mahomes or Josh Allen.

 

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

I love Heinicke. I hope he goes on to have a really long career as a starter on an NFC East team that isn't us.

 

Or he could go to coaching instead.

[method man]

Just now, mistertim said:

 

Eh, I think it's more than that. It wasn't like he was trying to run but was getting chased down from behind by DTs or something. He was noticeably more reticent to run in 2021 than he had been vs Carolina and TB in 2020. Not just reticent, but even when he did he was doing stuff like running out of bounds way before guys got to him and before the first down marker.

 

It seemed like he was trying to avoid hits. I assume because he wanted to prolong his one big shot in the NFL, which I can understand. But in doing so he also took away his main weapon.

 

The coaches even essentially called him out publicly with (IIRC) both Ron and Scott saying they'd like to see him use his legs more.

He looked noticeably quicker in that Tampa playoff loss

[mistertim]

7 minutes ago, method man said:

He looked noticeably quicker in that Tampa playoff loss

 

Even if he was slightly quicker, it doesn't change the fact that he basically stopped using his legs that way, to the point where the coaches more or less ****ed about it publicly.

 

Heinicke can use his legs just fine. He was trying to preserve himself. Which, again, I can understand. But in doing so he took away the main weapon he had since nobody is scared of his arm.

Edited November 12, 2022 by mistertim

[Skinsinparadise]

I'll give this to Heinicke which is he does play with a lot more juice than Wentz as I mentioned before.   Besides his play, Wentz has dissappointed me in how little fire he and the team come off with when he is on the field.

 

I don't think Heinicke is a good QB, but i'll give him that he plays with a pep in his step and Wentz plays with none.

 

 

 

While the Commanders’ offense has struggled with both quarterbacks under center — scoring 1.4 points per drive with Wentz and 1.7 with Heinicke per the website TruMedia, both rates in the bottom quarter of the NFL — Heinicke has given the team a spark with his fiery, mobile play. It has been apparent to fans in the stands and Eagles players on tape as they studied the Commanders this week.

“The biggest thing is that they are playing with a little more juice,” Eagles linebacker Haason Reddick told NJ.com. “Since Heinicke has been back there, they’ve just been a little bit more energetic.”

Boswell: Think Taylor Heinicke is just a backup? Think again.

The offense can translate energy to production if it stops absorbing negative plays. Heinicke said those setbacks, such as batted passes or sacks, killed good drives last week, and he seemed a little frustrated because “this is kind of a weekly deal.” Since Heinicke took over, Washington has had the second-best average distance to convert third downs in the NFL (5.6 yards), but it has converted them at the fifth-worst rate (31.6 percent).

“We’ve just got to either convert third downs or stop hurting ourselves,” Heinicke said. “It’s one of those two things. So I think if we just keep working on that, really honing on that and practice and get better at those things, we can put up some more points.”

 

Offensive coordinator Scott Turner said he didn’t expect Heinicke to be upset by a potential quarterback switch. He likened Heinicke’s mental toughness to move on after negative plays — as he did by following an interception with a game-winning drive in Week 8 at the Indianapolis Colts — to his ability to rebound from his worse games.

“He’ll go give everything he’s got on Monday, and he won’t let the other stuff affect him,” Turner said. “We always have those conversations, ‘Hey man, just go play and be you. You’re not going to always make the right decision. You’re always not going to make the right throws, but if you try to overthink it, you’re not going to make any plays either.’ So he’ll bounce back.”

When asked whether he viewed Monday night as a deciding factor in the quarterback battle, Turner said, “You always look at everything.”

“Ultimately, that’ll be Coach [Rivera]’s decision,” Turner added. “We’ll have conversations about it. We’ve got to wait and see when Carson is healthy, so a lot of that’s going to be up to the trainers before we even put in that situation. Right now, we’re really just focused on getting Taylor ready.”

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2022/11/12/carson-wentz-taylor-heinicke-commanders/

 

[Stone Cold]

2 hours ago, zCommander said:

Not until we get our own franchise QB like Mahomes or Josh Allen.

 

 

Or he could go to coaching instead.

Josh Allen and Sam Howell are eerily/favorably similar.  Watched a lot of Howell in college.  He carried a Power 5 program.  He’s a multi sport star with supreme athleticism and arm angle throw diversity.  I truly believe we have our QB.  Apparently he’s got some things to learn and I wouldn’t play him til we’re out of the playoff hunt.  But soon as we are, it would be criminal to not ascertain what we have before shopping for something shiny

[London Kev]

3 hours ago, method man said:

He put on 15-20 pounds of muscle. That probably slowed him down some

 

I know that was the claim, but I call BS on that one. I don't think that anyone who has already worked out for a few years can put on that amount of muscle in one off season.

 

A completely untrained person who takes up weight training and also eats and sleeps optimally could, but not an existing gym goer.

[BigDibbs31]

53 minutes ago, Stone Cold said:

Josh Allen and Sam Howell are eerily/favorably similar.  Watched a lot of Howell in college.  He carried a Power 5 program.  He’s a multi sport star with supreme athleticism and arm angle throw diversity.  I truly believe we have our QB.  Apparently he’s got some things to learn and I wouldn’t play him til we’re out of the playoff hunt.  But soon as we are, it would be criminal to not ascertain what we have before shopping for something shiny

Wait, what? LOL. UNC had a ton of weapons while Howell was at UNC and they underperformed. I'd much rather tank and go after Drake Maye when he is eligible. 

Edited November 13, 2022 by BigDibbs31
Added more

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, Stone Cold said:

Josh Allen and Sam Howell are eerily/favorably similar.  Watched a lot of Howell in college.  He carried a Power 5 program.  He’s a multi sport star with supreme athleticism and arm angle throw diversity.  I truly believe we have our QB.  Apparently he’s got some things to learn and I wouldn’t play him til we’re out of the playoff hunt.  But soon as we are, it would be criminal to not ascertain what we have before shopping for something shiny

 

I'm saying this as a big Howell fan...I really don't see it.

[BigDibbs31]

45 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I'm saying this as a big Howell fan...I really don't see it.

Agreed. I actually like Howell and think he has the right physical tools for the NFL but to even mention him in the same sentence as Josh Allen is insane. Allen is 5" taller, 30 lbs heavier, probably faster, and a bigger arm. Plus he is already a top 3 QB in the NFL. Howell is a third string QB on a team with bad QBs. 

Edited November 13, 2022 by BigDibbs31

[Koolblue13]

Howell is super Heini. He's gonna make the same stupid throws, but they'll be way more dynamic.

[Warhead36]

Sam Howell is similar to Josh Allen...man now I've heard it all LMAO

[Koolblue13]

2 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Sam Howell is similar to Josh Allen...man now I've heard it all LMAO

That Cult or Hive or .......Pack? is gonna be awful.