The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[Zim489]

1 hour ago, Daniel.redskins said:

A lot of hate for Jimmy G. He is better than anyone we have. He has a strong arm and throws with anticipation. We would have been a playoff team with him. If SF would take a second for him i would pull the trigger. Use our first round on a lb. Playoff team next year. 

I wish people would stop comparing to what we have now or what we have had here previously. Compare to the league. 

58 minutes ago, MrJL said:

the top rookie QBs are just not good enough to waste a major pick to trade for.  I think one of the top guys will easily be there at 11.  Hell, in this draft one of the top guys could easily be there at 43

Unfortunately Ron painted himself into a corner needing one by ignoring the position for 2 years 

[goskins10]

The problem with Jimmy is not if he is an upgrade. He is clearly an upgrade to what we have. But at what cost. There is no way SF let's him go for anything but a kings ransom. He may be frustrating to watch but Kyle and the 49ers do well when he plays. 32-12 with 4-20 without. Is that due to really poor backups or does Jimmy just fit thier scheme? 

 

They clearly won despite him last night but they won. He is the new Alex Smith but a bit more aggressive so he makes more big plays but also makes more big mistakes. 

 

So jsut like the other desirable FA QB,s for me they all will cost too much, to the point of being prohibitive. I know people have decided the future of all the college QBs already and decided they are all trash. But is it is just possible that there are a few decent to great QBs. If we jsut get an average to above average QBs on a rookie deal, they can build a hell of a team around them. 

 

Use all the resources on a big name FA and you are hog tied. All that cap space will disappear quickly. Look at Minn. Rogers, WIlson, Watson will all cost way more than Cousins (not making this Cousins debate, it's about QB salaries and Cousins set the bar for FA QBs). Each year since they signed him the team has had to let good players go due to CAP issues and they have not done much. Even after he signed a slightly team friendly extension. And Zimmer just got shown the door for it. 

 

I prefer either rolling with Taylor/Allen as the backup or bringing in Mariota or bring in another cheaper veteran as bridge QB and drafting a QB high. Even if you use some draft capitol, that you can recover from, not a $40M/year 3 yr fully gauranteed salary contract .And do not be surprised if someone gets that or better.

 

[Chump Bailey]

51 minutes ago, Daniel.redskins said:

A lot of hate for Jimmy G. He is better than anyone we have. He has a strong arm and throws with anticipation. We would have been a playoff team with him. If SF would take a second for him i would pull the trigger. Use our first round on a lb. Playoff team next year. 

 

Bold take. My take is that his arm is little more than above average, IMO it's his release that is a plus. He struggles with the deep and intermediate stuff outside the numbers. 

[Zim489]

I just don’t want mediocre to decent QB play. Swing for the fences in trade or draft pick. Carr isn’t a fence swinging move either 

[Koolblue13]

If we don't get Rodgers, Wilson, Watson or Carr we are drafting a QB in the 1rst.

 

I think we can all agree on that.

[HigSkin]

Russell Wilson bandwagon here...

 

 

[skinny21]

Given the/my concerns with acquiring Jimmy G - the trade cost, if his contract affects re-signing or adding FAs (including potential roll-over money for Terry’s extension), his lack of mobility, learning a new system (West Coast based to Coryell based), whether our supporting cast might be a significant step down for him (arguable of course), and the fact we’re either trading for a one year rental or we’re extending him for fairly significant money…

I’m not sure I agree with going that route versus:

A FA qb (Trubisky/Mariota) and picking a qb at 11 (and if the ones they like there are gone, revisiting qb with our 2nd rounder (Strong/Ridder/etc)*

or

Picking a qb at 11, and then picking a 2nd qb with our next pick (ideally one with a lot of upside and one more pro ready?)**

or

Trading up to make sure they get their top qb

 

*Can always try again in 2023 if they’re not convinced by that 2nd rounder.   

 

**Yes, it’s 2 picks spent at the qb position, but it’s the same (or even less) than what we’d spend for Garappolo and a 1st rounder and we wouldn’t have JG’s cap hit.  It’s also (probably) less than we’d pay to trade up for a qb.  I get the argument you need to commit to a qb (and having 2 young guys can complicate that), but then again it worked out for us last time with Griffin/Cousins.

[Zim489]

2 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Given the/my concerns with acquiring Jimmy G - the trade cost, if his contract affects re-signing or adding FAs (including potential roll-over money for Terry’s extension), his lack of mobility, learning a new system (West Coast based to Coryell based), whether our supporting cast might be a significant step down for him (arguable of course), and the fact we’re either trading for a one year rental or we’re extending him for fairly significant money…

I’m not sure I agree with going that route versus:

A FA qb (Trubisky/Mariota) and picking a qb at 11 (and if the ones they like there are gone, revisiting qb with our 2nd rounder (Strong/Ridder/etc)*

or

Picking a qb at 11, and then picking a 2nd qb with our next pick (ideally one with a lot of upside and one more pro ready?)**

or

Trading up to make sure they get their top qb

 

*Can always try again in 2023 if they’re not convinced by that 2nd rounder.   

 

**Yes, it’s 2 picks spent at the qb position, but it’s the same (or even less) than what we’d spend for Garappolo and a 1st rounder and we wouldn’t have JG’s cap hit.  It’s also (probably) less than we’d pay to trade up for a qb.  I get the argument you need to commit to a qb (and having 2 young guys can complicate that), but then again it worked out for us last time with Griffin/Cousins.

They aren’t taking 2 QBs. It casts doubt and creates a split among the building from the first step onto the practice field. The Kirk pick was a mistake on the same way

[KDawg]

We definitely won’t be taking two QBs in round 1 and 2 unless it involves a trade for a QB and drafting one. Drafting two in a row is a large mistake. 

[MrJL]

12 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

I wish people would stop comparing to what we have now or what we have had here previously. Compare to the league. 

Unfortunately Ron painted himself into a corner needing one by ignoring the position for 2 years 

 

We drafted a QB in 2019.  Specifically we drafted the QB the owner wanted .  Plus we had the Alex Smith comeback story with his massive contract.  2020 therefore was not a case of anything being ignored

[goskins10]

2 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Given the/my concerns with acquiring Jimmy G - the trade cost, if his contract affects re-signing or adding FAs (including potential roll-over money for Terry’s extension), his lack of mobility, learning a new system (West Coast based to Coryell based), whether our supporting cast might be a significant step down for him (arguable of course), and the fact we’re either trading for a one year rental or we’re extending him for fairly significant money…

I’m not sure I agree with going that route versus:

A FA qb (Trubisky/Mariota) and picking a qb at 11 (and if the ones they like there are gone, revisiting qb with our 2nd rounder (Strong/Ridder/etc)*

or

Picking a qb at 11, and then picking a 2nd qb with our next pick (ideally one with a lot of upside and one more pro ready?)**

or

Trading up to make sure they get their top qb

 

*Can always try again in 2023 if they’re not convinced by that 2nd rounder.   

 

**Yes, it’s 2 picks spent at the qb position, but it’s the same (or even less) than what we’d spend for Garappolo and a 1st rounder and we wouldn’t have JG’s cap hit.  It’s also (probably) less than we’d pay to trade up for a qb.  I get the argument you need to commit to a qb (and having 2 young guys can complicate that), but then again it worked out for us last time with Griffin/Cousins.

 

I agree with most of what you say except below. 

 

1 minute ago, Zim489 said:

They aren’t taking 2 QBs. It casts doubt and creates a split among the building from the first step onto the practice field. The Kirk pick was a mistake on the same way

 

I was trying to get this down but you said it better and faster!  And I would argue it was a disaster taking Robert and Cousins in the same draft. As it was when we took Frerotte and Shuler. Unless one is a clear practice squad player, there is zero value in taking 2 QBs. 

[MrJL]

12 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

I just don’t want mediocre to decent QB play. Swing for the fences in trade or draft pick. Carr isn’t a fence swinging move either 

 

if we swing for the fences we're striking  out

[Redskins 2021]

What is the cost people could stomach to get Jimmy g he will not be are first choice. If they win the Super Bowl any chance they trade Lance.

 

Also it sounds like there a chance the Tom Brady retires. If that happens Tampa will be looking for QB.

 

Edited January 23, 2022 by Redskins 2021

[goskins10]

Just now, MrJL said:

 

if we swing for the fences we're striking  out

 

 

I get you and others, in fairness many others, are sure there are no great QBs in the draft. But it's not like that analysis has never been wrong. In fact it's been wrong way more than it's been right. Huge QB drafts turn out to be ****. Crappy QBs drafts turn out to have a good talent. Youi keep making the comment repeatedly as if it is fact. There is nothing given about the draft. It may be a **** draft for QBs. But it may not. 

 

it's also about taking your chances. Spending a huge chunk of our CAP for a FA QB then not being able to put a team around them is not a successful plan. At least in the draft there is a chance and you still have money to build the rest of the team. We can reload draft wise and try and again. 

 

[Est.1974]

I would think if SF trade Jimmy G they are risking the development/investment they have made in Lance. He may need another year. Jimmy may want to force a move for longer term stability but I’m not convinced he gets that elsewhere anywhere, so he may as well sit tight and pick up 20mil where he is. 

[KDawg]

I’m largely ignoring the “there are no good QBs in this draft” narrative. It’s a parroted misinformed statement. If they said there aren’t any can’t miss prospects that would be accurate. But there are several prospects that could ultimately work out. 
 

If you have the “no QBs” take without watching them, I urge you to watch them. If you’re basing it off of highlights, I urge you to find full games.

 

I promise there are possibilities. Yes, they can miss, too. And there are concerns with all of them. But that doesn’t mean the class stinks.

[Redskins 2021]

1 minute ago, goskins10 said:

 

 

I get you and others, in fairness many others, are sure there are no great QBs in the draft. But it's not like that analysis has never been wrong. In fact it's been wrong way more than it's been right. Huge QB drafts turn out to be ****. Crappy QBs drafts turn out to have a good talent. Youi keep making the comment repeatedly as if it is fact. There is nothing given about the draft. It may be a **** draft for QBs. But it may not. 

 

it's also about taking your chances. Spending a huge chunk of our CAP for a FA QB then not being able to put a team around them is not a successful plan. At least in the draft there is a chance and you still have money to build the rest of the team. We can reload draft wise and try and again. 

 

 I am ok with picking a rookie but then expect next year to be bad. I get the feeling Rivera does not like Heinicke as a player so you know something will happen at QB.

Also Trubisky may be in demand this year he is potentially the best of this bad bunch. Nyg may look at him to go against Jones if they don't get someone big.  With buffalo asst GM I'd now the GM of nyg.

 

[KDawg]

Just now, Redskins 2021 said:

 I am ok with picking a rookie but then expect next year to be bad. I get the feeling Rivera does not like Heinicke as a player so you know something will happen at QB.

Also Trubisky may be in demand this year he is potentially the best of this bad bunch. Nyg may look at him to go against Jones if they don't get someone big.  With buffalo asst GM I'd now the GM of nyg.

 

Why would we expect next year to be bad with a rookie?

 

It could be. But the rookie doesn’t guarantee a bad year. Or a good year. 

[MrJL]

5 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

 

I get you and others, in fairness many others, are sure there are no great QBs in the draft. But it's not like that analysis has never been wrong. In fact it's been wrong way more than it's been right. Huge QB drafts turn out to be ****. Crappy QBs drafts turn out to have a good talent. Youi keep making the comment repeatedly as if it is fact. There is nothing given about the draft. It may be a **** draft for QBs. But it may not. 

 

it's also about taking your chances. Spending a huge chunk of our CAP for a FA QB then not being able to put a team around them is not a successful plan. At least in the draft there is a chance and you still have money to build the rest of the team. We can reload draft wise and try and again. 

 

 

I feel like analysis are more often to positive in a player's potential than negative. I'm also not in favor of spending a lot in free agency.  We're not supposed to be having a five game stretch of HoF QBs next year and we're going to have a competent kicking game.  I'm cool with running with Heinike and Allen if nothing reasonable comes up

[Dan T.]

 

[mistertim]

24 minutes ago, Redskins 2021 said:

What is the cost people could stomach to get Jimmy g he will not be are first choice. If they win the Super Bowl any chance they trade Lance.

 

Also it sounds like there a chance the Tom Brady retires. If that happens Tampa will be looking for QB.

 

 

Personally I wouldn't give more than a 3rd for Jimmy G, but if they put him on the trading block I'm assuming they'll want at least a 2nd rounder but might even try to get a 1st. If we gave up a 1st round pick for him I'd need to down an entire bottle of Advil due to the blunt force trauma from facepalming for 3 days straight.

 

I also don't see any chance that SF trades Lance. They invested 3 1st round picks in the kid, and Jimmy G is who he is. He'll never be anything more than an average QB and Lance has that crazy upside.

[Redskins 2021]

If we are taking a QB on potential Wills would have to be way to go. I am afraid his level of competition was to low to get a read on him. Definitely most potential. Alittle worried about accuracy on throws but potential is there.

 I think Mississippi and pitt guys are least likely to bust and are ready to play now but I don't know how good they would be. 

 Cinn and Carolina QB are a step behind but look like they could be NFL QB. They could be good second round.

[skinny21]

7 minutes ago, Zim489 said:

They aren’t taking 2 QBs. It casts doubt and creates a split among the building from the first step onto the practice field. The Kirk pick was a mistake on the same way

I agree, they won’t draft 2 qbs.  For me personally though, I’d rather a 1st round qb and then Strong or Ridder over spending that same pick on Garoppolo, because at least they offer upside (and don’t come with the cap hit).  Different from me saying I want to go that route.

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

We definitely won’t be taking two QBs in round 1 and 2 unless it involves a trade for a QB and drafting one. Drafting two in a row is a large mistake. 

I agree with your first sentence of course.  In your mind, how is it a large mistake?  Obviously not the cost - we’re talking about giving up more for Jimmy G and a 1st rounder.  So I presume it’s the potential for disagreement - a choosing of sides that causes headaches in the building?  I can certainly see the possibility.  The flip side is what’s the worst that happens… it affects our record?  It causes embarrassment in the media?  Fans get argue about who should start and maybe get upset?  Wouldn’t that all be status quo?  Or maybe Ron and Turner disagree and that leads to Turner getting fired?  Danny and Ron disagree and Ron gets fired (ie, what a lot of people think will happen if Ron doesn’t find a qb)?

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying it’s a good idea, but I’d rather have 2 guys with upside and deal with any potential negative ramifications, then spending a pick (or picks) and cap space on Garoppolo.

2 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

I agree with most of what you say except below. 

 

 

I was trying to get this down but you said it better and faster!  And I would argue it was a disaster taking Robert and Cousins in the same draft. As it was when we took Frerotte and Shuler. Unless one is a clear practice squad player, there is zero value in taking 2 QBs. 

Yeah, don’t get me wrong, I know it won’t happen, I’m not arguing it should happen, and I see the potential for it causing some problems.  I’d take it over trading for Jimmy G though.

If we had only used a 1st rounder on Griffin (saying this only because that’s what we would spend this year), and if we had traded Cousins for a 1st down the road… we’d have come out of that draft with a contending team (and the excitement and hope it brought), a few years of competency (under Cousins), and then recouped a 1st round pick.  All for the cost of a 1st and 4th.  To me, the mistake wasn’t in drafting the 2, it was playing Griffin when he was injured and then franchising (and not trading) Cousins when we had the chance.  In hindsight, it was a mistake to give up that much for Griffin as well… but again, that’s in hindsight.

I could absolutely be forgetting something (my memory ain’t great to be sure), but I’m having trouble looking back and thinking that drafting both was a large mistake though, even if subsequent mistakes were made.

 

[Zim489]

33 minutes ago, MrJL said:

 

if we swing for the fences we're striking  out

Than fine we’ll swing again 

[Redskins 2021]

8 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Personally I wouldn't give more than a 3rd for Jimmy G, but if they put him on the trading block I'm assuming they'll want at least a 2nd rounder but might even try to get a 1st. If we gave up a 1st round pick for him I'd need to down an entire bottle of Advil due to the blunt force trauma from facepalming for 3 days straight.

 

I also don't see any chance that SF trades Lance. They invested 3 1st round picks in the kid, and Jimmy G is who he is. He'll never be anything more than an average QB and Lance has that crazy upside.

 I think we could get him for anything between 1st and 3rd I don't think anyone bringing him in for competition with high priced QB and team with bad cap will not bring him on. That gets rid of

Clevland 

Indy

New orleans

The teams that would want him would be

Us

Denver 

Carolina they don't have alot of picks after last year's trade

Maybe Tampa if Brady retires 

So us and Denver I think will be only one going after him with the way his contract is now. 

Edited January 23, 2022 by Redskins 2021