The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[skinny21]

Two random things on my mind.

 

1) Let’s say the choice is between Daniels and May (I know, I know… McCarthy), which of those do you think is more likely to sign a second contract with us?  Tons of unknowns there, but Maye has shown loyalty staying with UNC, and would be pretty close to home in DC.  Perhaps the NIL money for his OL factor shows an additional loyalty to his teammates too.

 

2) How would you defend Daniels?  IMO, you want to keep him in the pocket, and you’re running a risk playing man coverage.  Obviously you can use things that still allow your DEs to rush upfield, or use a spy in conjunction with man coverage, but really, I think Daniels is the qb most likely to make defenses more… static?  One dimensional?  Not sure the best term.  And if that’s the case (big if), I think zone might suit out pass catchers a bit more - it’s more about route running and savvy with the current group than burst/quick separation.

[Kalu44]

1 minute ago, skinny21 said:

Two random things on my mind.

 

1) Let’s say the choice is between Daniels and May (I know, I know… McCarthy), which of those do you think is more likely to sign a second contract with us?  Tons of unknowns there, but Maye has shown loyalty staying with UNC, and would be pretty close to home in DC.  Perhaps the NIL money for his OL factor shows an additional loyalty to his teammates too.

 

Great question. I was thinking about that too. At first chance, does he look to sign with the Raiders in FA (if Pierce is still there, and they need a QB). I know there are a lot of "ifs" there, but one does need to wonder. I would not let that be a deciding factor to draft him or not. Can't really look that far in the future.

[FlyBigBeard]

Why do I hate the idea of Daniels at #2 now ha 😕 Never really been a Daniels guy and now reading all the bad on here really makes me think he will be a bust. "Me first guy" that will not make it in the NFL.  I really hope we don't take him. Peter's do the right thing! JJ or Maye is the only right pick. I know a lot of people are saying JJ is crazy talk at #2 but what's the difference between #2 and #6 in all reality if he is a franchise guy. Who knows the right answer when drafting your quarterback, it's definitely a crap shoot. But I have a bad feeling when it comes to Daniels. 

[Chump Bailey]

14 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I was watching a lot of Penix yesterday because I was watching his two tight ends.  Wow is that dude's accuracy wild from one game to the next.   I knew that before hand but it really brought it home tracking the throws to his TEs.

 

 

 

I like both of Washington's TE's. Underrated to me big time.

[Command The 414]

My question regarding either Daniels or Maye wouldn’t be which 1 would resign with us when that time came but more on the lines of which 1 do we think we’d want to resign give 5th yr option and attempt to work out long term deals with when that time came…. Both I think we can all agree upon is they need some work improvement in the NFL… it’s not like either of them are coming in the NFL and automatically top 5 QB’s… dont concern yourself with will they resign with us but the opposite 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, Chump Bailey said:

 

I like both of Washington's TE's. Underrated to me big time.

 

I did a TE write up yesterday, said something similar.   Westover can do it all, not a high ceiling but a high floor, and no one is talking about him for whatever reason.

 

And Culp is the fastest TE in the class.

[The Consigliere]

16 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I was watching a lot of Penix yesterday because I was watching his two tight ends.  Wow is that dude's accuracy wild from one game to the next.   I knew that before hand but it really brought it home tracking the throws to his TEs.

 

 

It would be interesting to see if others have similar volatility because your right, it looks like he was either 75% in a game or sub 60, it was very yo yo in his game log (in game I guess too?). 

Checking out Daniels, obviously his '23 is ridiculous, but his '22 is relatively consistent too.

Maye seemed similarly volatile in '22, but less so in '23 except during his tail off late in the season. 

JJ seems volatile too.

 

Didn't look at Caleb as he's going 1.01 so who cares (though again, Id consider trading up but not at their price). 

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Two random things on my mind.

 

1) Let’s say the choice is between Daniels and May (I know, I know… McCarthy), which of those do you think is more likely to sign a second contract with us?  Tons of unknowns there, but Maye has shown loyalty staying with UNC, and would be pretty close to home in DC.  Perhaps the NIL money for his OL factor shows an additional loyalty to his teammates too.

 

2) How would you defend Daniels?  IMO, you want to keep him in the pocket, and you’re running a risk playing man coverage.  Obviously you can use things that still allow your DEs to rush upfield, or use a spy in conjunction with man coverage, but really, I think Daniels is the qb most likely to make defenses more… static?  One dimensional?  Not sure the best term.  And if that’s the case (big if), I think zone might suit out pass catchers a bit more - it’s more about route running and savvy with the current group than burst/quick separation.

 

So many rules to help teams keep their QBs as to the tags, etc. Kirk is an exception not a rule and they probably would have kept him if it weren't for Bruce.

 

Also Keim has said he's heard peole around Daniels feel Washington is a good spot for him.

 

As to how to beat Daniels?  From my watching, interior pressure, collapse the pocket.

[Idaho fan]

 

With all the hype and optimism from having so much draft capital, a strong free agency, a completely new coaching staff and a new legit GM I am thrilled.  It is and will be such a different feeling from where we were just one year ago under Ron & co. Having said that, this draft talk is getting less entertaining  and dragging on... Looking forward to Thursday.  

 

Im sold on the pick being Daniels and he is the QB I want for various reasons.  I won't whine or pout if the pick is Maye as Im trusting Peters and the rest but I will be surprised. 

 

Regardless of what happens at 2, they need to hit on those other 5 picks in the top 100.  Im really hoping the road game in AZ is an early one... thats the one ive earmarked to make and would be thrilled if it was the season opener like it was a few years ago.  

[BMagic]

19 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

He was projected to go inside the top 5 before his final season. 

Lamar was 27th in QBR as an 18 year old. I don't think you want to be reminded what Daniels was.

Lamar was 4th in QBR as a 19 year old.

Lamar was 4th in QBR as a 20 year old.

 

The reason for why he dropped eludes me. I had thought he'd fallen off his final year, but now looking at the #'s, he did not (though the traditional rating system shows him dropping from 148 to 146 from '16 to '17).

 

Daniels simply wasn't in his universe as a prospect except in terms of accuracy which of course matters but even there, Daniels in complete college seasons in '19, and '21 and '22 was nowhere remotely close to Lamar. Lamar was uniformly far better with far less talent, at a far younger age: see Daniels QBR with better talent at age 18 was 55th compared to Lamar at 27th, Lamar at 19 and 20 finished 4th both seasons, compare that to Daniels at age 20 and 21 finishing 41st and 18th.  I think the reasons Lamar didn't go high in '18 are probably connected to accuracy (#'s were low for a modern QB), connected to RGIII paranoia, and the reality that since RGIII, only Wilson had thrived as a dual threat QB, we only see the league fall in love with dual threat guys after Mahomes, Josh Allen and Lamar all do what they did in '18, and then are followed by Kyler succeeding as well in '19...you get Danny Nickels in the same class in '19, then more dual threat attraction in '21, and '23. The WR nonsense also makes me wonder about lingering racial stupidity as they did the same thing w/Terrell Pryor, and let Wilson fall behind guys like Brock Lobster, Foles, Weeden etc....I don't know if its race, or just the lack of hit rates with dual threat guys unless they were God Mode Vick etc. Not sure what it was, but the NFL clearly was clueless with him, and there was little justifiable reason other than the lack of successful comps at the time, and perhaps that his accuracy wasn't ideal (but again, Josh Allen's accuracy was far worse and in a much worse conference so that doesn't pass the smell test).

 

Daniels profile as a prospect is worse, period, than Lamar's, I think the key component in why Daniels is going where he'll go is in the trailblazing that was done by Mahomes, Allen, Lamar, and Kyler a half decade ago, otherwise, Daniels is probably projected exactly where he was throughout '21-'23 (until say October of last fall), late day 2 to day 3. 

 

People are making up a guy when discussing Daniels in comparison to Lamar Jackson. Jayden has some similar traits, but the NFL whiffed completely on Lamar as a prospect. Lamar was more even more eletric as a runner and had a higher ADOT as a passer.

 

 

Edited April 22 by BMagic

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, The Consigliere said:

It would be interesting to see if others have similar volatility because your right, it looks like he was either 75% in a game or sub 60, it was very yo yo in his game log (in game I guess too?). 

Checking out Daniels, obviously his '23 is ridiculous, but his '22 is relatively consistent too.

Maye seemed similarly volatile in '22, but less so in '23 except during his tail off late in the season. 

JJ seems volatile too.

 

Didn't look at Caleb as he's going 1.01 so who cares (though again, Id consider trading up but not at their price). 

 

Some are giving Maye a hard time for his misses.  But wow are some of Penix's misses wildly off.   Bigger issue IMO with him versus with Maye.

[The Consigliere]

3 minutes ago, BMagic said:

 

People are making up a guy when discussing Daniels in comparison to Lamar Jackson. Jayden has some similar traits, but the NFL whiffed completely on Lamar as a prospect. Lamar was more even more eletric as a runner and had a higher ADOT as a passer.

 

 

Well the ADOT being 12 yards 1000% explains the accuracy numbers being in the high 50's. 

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Some are giving Maye a hard time for his misses.  But wow are some of Penix's misses wildly off.   Bigger issue IMO with him versus with Maye.

If you do my lazy look, its pretty weird how inaccurate he was at Indiana. Then again, it's Indiana, but still, his accuracy jumped as big as I've seen it from early days to Washington, and even then, still, lots of volatility. Could explain the crap Senior Bowl practices, more of his "off" days?

[RWJ]

Just the messenger here.  This is a supposed tweet from Chris Simms, this morning per a twitter.  Again, I am a messenger.  Give is a listen if you care to.    

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

@Koolblue13 with his Dan Quinn laughter photo gives a fun yet sinister vibe especially on the QB thread.  Everytime i look at it, feels like Quinn is watching us here and laughing in a mocking way at the absurdity of our posts here.  It's made me a lot more self consicious about my posts. 

 

 

 

1 minute ago, RWJ said:

Just the messenger here.  This is a supposed tweet from Chris Simms, this morning per a twitter.  Again, I am a messenger.  Give is a listen if you care to.    

 

 

 

 

Simms saying that was the first time for the the Washington brass and Daniels to meet each other.  Really?

[NYSkins21]

15 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Two random things on my mind.

 

1) Let’s say the choice is between Daniels and May (I know, I know… McCarthy), which of those do you think is more likely to sign a second contract with us?  Tons of unknowns there, but Maye has shown loyalty staying with UNC, and would be pretty close to home in DC.  Perhaps the NIL money for his OL factor shows an additional loyalty to his teammates too.

 

2) How would you defend Daniels?  IMO, you want to keep him in the pocket, and you’re running a risk playing man coverage.  Obviously you can use things that still allow your DEs to rush upfield, or use a spy in conjunction with man coverage, but really, I think Daniels is the qb most likely to make defenses more… static?  One dimensional?  Not sure the best term.  And if that’s the case (big if), I think zone might suit out pass catchers a bit more - it’s more about route running and savvy with the current group than burst/quick separation.

This is spot on. If the reports have any validity to them and JD does indeed really wants to play for Antonio Pierce, it should ABSOLUTELY be a factor in their decision. I know a lot can happen between now and 5 years from now but if AP & DQ believe JD and DM are close in talent and intangibles, they need to consider who would be more likely to resign to keep things rolling. And Maye certainly seems to check that box more than JD if reports are correct.

 

Nice post @skinny21

[Skinsinparadise]

Don't care much what Schefter or Keim or Breer think.  I am waiting for the next tweet from Chad Ryan or Walter Football or that ScoutD twitter dude for me to start buying any rumor.

 

 

 

[DogofWar1]

35 minutes ago, TurningTheCorner said:

Lamar went 32 and was asked by teams to switch to WR. Even if Daniels doesn’t go to us, he is universally regarded as a top 3 pick in a abnormally strong QB draft. Lamar was not that as a prospect and there’s a reason for that. 

 

Well Lamar walked (ran) so guys like Fields and Daniels could (also) run.

 

Jackson owned the 1st and (at the time) 3rd most rushing yards in a season for a qb spots.  Fields came along and grabbed #2 in 22 pushing that 3rd to 4th.

 

When Jackson entered the league in 2018, dual threat QB rushing totals were:

1. Vick 1039 yards - 2006

2. Bobby Douglas 968 yards - 1972

3. Randall Cunningham 942 yards - 1990

4. Michael Vick 902 yards - 2004

5. Russell Wilson 849 yards - 2014

6. RGIII 815 yards - 2012

7. Michael Vick 777 yards - 2002

8. Cam Newton 754 yards - 2017

9. Cam Newton 741 yards - 2012

10. Cam Newton 706 yards - 2011

And 11 and 12 would have been Vick again and McNair in 97.

 

That is, unless you were literally Michael Vick electric or Cam Newton big you would see just a season here or there, and mind you 2 and 3 were ancient history and 6 got injured and his career collapsed after.

 

Now, today, the top list looks WAYYYYY different.  Jackson owns 1, 4, 9, 14, 15, and 23. Fields owns 2.  Kyler owns 10.  Hurts has 12 and 18.  Allen 16 and 17.  Daniel Jones 21.

 

That is more than half of the top 25 QB rushing seasons happened 2018 and onwards.

 

And indeed, much of the changed landscape is specifically because of Jackson.  Because without him the dual threat crew is led by Kyler and Hurts, who are good but also definitely NOT Jackson.

 

So Jackson ran so that guys like Daniels could run more.

[RWJ]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

@Koolblue13 with his Dan Quinn laughter photo gives a fun yet sinister vibe especially on the QB thread.  Everytime i look at it, feels like Quinn is watching us here and laughing in a mocking way at the absurdity of our posts here.  It's made me a lot more self consicious about my posts. 

 

 

 

 

Simms saying that was the first time for the the Washington brass and Daniels to meet each other.  Really?

Easy Tonto. I did say that I was just the messenger!    

[Idaho fan]

2 minutes ago, NYSkins21 said:

This is spot on. If the reports have any validity to them and JD does indeed really wants to play for Antonio Pierce, it should ABSOLUTELY be a factor in their decision. I know a lot can happen between now and 5 years from now but if AP & DQ believe JD and DM are close in talent and intangibles, they need to consider who would be more likely to resign to keep things rolling. And Maye certainly seems to check that box more than JD if reports are correct.

 

Nice post @skinny21

Well here is what JD had to say about it:

 

“So I know if I was to go to the Raiders — I’m not saying I’m gonna go there or I wanna go there, I wanna go wherever my name is called — if I was to go to the Raiders, I know as soon as I step foot, he’s gonna challenge me.”

 

Not a lot different than all the "Caleb doesn't want to go to Chicago" talk a month or so ago... all players likely have a preference.  I would if I was a player... who wouldn't.  Doesn't mean they are going to be difficult to sign to a contract 5 years from now IMO.  The majority of players any team takes likely would've preferred to go somewhere else.  In the end players want to get paid and win.  

 

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, NYSkins21 said:

This is spot on. If the reports have any validity to them and JD does indeed really wants to play for Antonio Pierce, it should ABSOLUTELY be a factor in their decision. I know a lot can happen between now and 5 years from now but if AP & DQ believe JD and DM are close in talent and intangibles, they need to consider who would be more likely to resign to keep things rolling. And Maye certainly seems to check that box more than JD if reports are correct.

 

Nice post @skinny21

 

7 years from now post tag?  What are even the odds that Pierce is still the HC of the Raiders then?

 

How do we know Daniels will have a bad time in DC with his teammates, etc.

 

It's like saying the college you are about to go to, odds are you will clamor to go elsewhere when you are done after going to college and grad school there.  Odds are much better you make friends, enjoy it, and it hits your comfort zone over time.  Most QBs don't bail. 

 

1 minute ago, RWJ said:

Easy Tonto. I did say that I was just the messenger!    

 

Didn't say you said it unless your name is Simms?

Edited April 22 by Skinsinparadise

[RWJ]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

7 years from now post tag?  What are even the odds that Pierce is still the HC of the Raiders then?

 

How do we know Daniels will have a bad time in DC with his teammates, etc.

 

It's like saying the college you are about to go, you will clamor to go elsehwere when you are done with both college and grad school there.  Odds are much better you make friends, enjoy it, and it hits your comfort zone over time.  Most QBs don't bail. 

 

 

Didn't say you said it unless your name is Simms?

👍

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, RWJ said:

👍

 

I haven't been called Tonto in a long time.

[FootballZombie]

1 minute ago, NYSkins21 said:

This is spot on. If the reports have any validity to them and JD does indeed really wants to play for Antonio Pierce, it should ABSOLUTELY be a factor in their decision. I know a lot can happen between now and 5 years from now but if AP & DQ believe JD and DM are close in talent and intangibles, they need to consider who would be more likely to resign to keep things rolling. And Maye certainly seems to check that box more than JD if reports are correct.

 

We would have a rookie QB under contract for 5 years. 6 or 7 if you include tags.

How many head coaches in the NFL will still be employed w/ their same team in that timeframe? 15%?

 

Being afraid a guy might jump ship to his former coach is not a valid reason to pick someone else. There is an exceedingly high likelihood that the opportunity is never even available.

[RWJ]

Hopefully, ES admins have a plan in place so this board doesn't go down during the draft, especially during the #2 overall pick.   

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I haven't been called Tonto in a long time.

Can't say that again for awhile now.  How and why were you called that?  Just curious.    

[NYSkins21]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

7 years from now post tag?  What are even the odds that Pierce is still the HC of the Raiders then?

 

How do we know Daniels will have a bad time in DC with his teammates, etc.

 

It's like saying the college you are about to go, you will clamor to go elsehwere when you are done with both college and grad school there.  Odds are much better you make friends, enjoy it, and it hits your comfort zone over time.  Most QBs don't bail. 

I’m not saying Pierce in particular. He might be gone, you’re right. And I know things could change if we drafted JD. He could fall in love with our organization and DQ.

 

I’m just saying if he thinks the grass might be greener before he’s even drafted, has some vendetta against AP and his agent is purposely sending soft signals that he’d rather be somewhere else… Ya gotta look at it.