The Official QB Thread- JD5 taken #2. Randall 2.0 or Bayou Bob? Mariotta and Hartman forever. Fromm cut

[illone]

3 hours ago, Llevron said:

I'm confused. He played the next game. 

 

I'm not the argument police but its weird to make up hypotheticals like LSU (would have?) played well without Daniels....when they didn't and where never in position to. 

 

Not sure if this was part of the argument previously stated, but LSU only played one game without Daniels… the bowl game that he opted out of. Iirc they played wisconsin. 
 

 

[BayouBrave86]

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

 

The arguments that look bad to me are the ones that ignore reality, like claiming there wasn't an ocean of difference in the quality of the situation Daniels and Maye played in last year.  Do you really want to claim that Tez Walker wasn't that much worse than Marvin Harrison Jr because of drop rates?  Do you really want to claim that Omarion Hampton was the reason UNC won the Duke game?  That is the kind of specious nonsense that looks bad.  That Clemson game you're citing as evidence of the quality of Drake's supporting cast?  OMarion Hampton fumbled the ball into the endzone on his big run and caused a touchback, and Tez Walker dropped a 40 yard bomb that hit him in his hands in the fourth quarter that would have kept the game from getting out of hand.  Having one decent weapon is nothing like having three great ones, nevermind the massive difference in quality of the OLs.  And the differences in situation extend well beyond the other players in the offense.  UNC was dysfunctional last year, the coaches were a mess and struggled with just getting plays in during games.  The staff at LSU was legitimately excellent.  They had a magical season whereas Drake Maye spent the year bailing water for a sinking program.  Ignoring this huge difference in situation is sticking your head in the sand.  And so is ignoring the difference in the way each player responded to program dysfunction.  Jayden played like crap in 2021 and then transferred out, with his mom badmouthing the team.

The ASU program was as dysfunctional as it gets. They had 16 plus players transfer out after 2021.

 

Burrow and Daniels had very similar trajectories at LSU. An above average first season and after learning to command the system and offense, took off with some supremely talented receivers. A QB has to get the playmakers the ball and Daniels was great at doing that. Our running game was so so and the oline was stout, but Daniels delivered big time. He will be a star at the next level. 

1 minute ago, illone said:

 

Not sure if this was part of the argument previously stated, but LSU only played one game without Daniels… the bowl game that he opted out of. Iirc they played wisconsin. 
 

 

LSU would’ve been a 4-5 win team without Daniels. LSU offense was constantly in go now mode because our defense was historically bad. People forget that. The pressure was ALWAYS on Daniels to deliver any time we played a team with a pulse on offense. Pair Daniels and that offense with just a top 50 defense this season and they’re National Champions at the end of the year. 

[Dah-Dee]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10116920-nfl-draft-rumors-commanders-still-get-trade-calls-amid-jayden-daniels-maye-buzz

 

NFL Draft Rumors: Commanders Still Get Trade Calls Amid Jayden Daniels, Maye Buzz

 

Teams have reportedly not given up on the Washington Commanders trading the No. 2 pick in the 2024 NFL draft.

 

ESPN's Jeremy Fowler said the Commanders are still receiving calls from teams hoping to trade up for LSU's Jayden Daniels or North Carolina's Drake Maye.

 

"Teams I've talked to do believe that [Daniels is] the most viable option for Washington and could eventually be the pick," Fowler said Monday on Get Up. "But I talked to somebody in Washington just now who said they're bringing in Jayden Daniels really in the next day or two, he's going to be inside their building. They're going to talk to him. They're going to talk to Drake Maye in the building this week. J.J. McCarthy, in the building. All Top 30 visits. So, their work is not done, their board is not set, and they have received calls from other teams about the No. 2 overall pick in this draft process. They're getting teams who are calling saying, 'Hey, what would it take to get to No. 2 overall?' I do not expect the Washington Commanders to move out of that pick, I think they'll select a quarterback but there are calls being made right now."

Edited April 15 by Dah-Dee

[Skinsinparadise]

Riddick, wrong about Haskins, right about Stroud.  I am actually amused by his campaign along with Orlovsky that the Bears are taking the 2nd best QB.  I noticed its angering some of the Bears fans on twitter.   

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2024/story/_/id/39935091/2024-nfl-draft-louis-riddick-favorite-prospects-class-sleeper-daniels-nabers-wiggins

 

MY FAVORITE DAY 1 PROSPECTS

Jayden Daniels, QB, LSU

Daniels is the best quarterback in the draft -- and that list includes USC's Caleb Williams. Don't believe me? Let's start with the numbers. Last season, Daniels was first in the nation in Total QBR (95.6), first in QBR outside the pocket (98.8), first in QBR against zone coverage (98.3), first in QBR on play-action (93.8), first in QBR on deep balls (99.7) and second in QBR while under pressure (78.6). He threw 40 touchdown passes, ran for 10 more scores and had only four interceptions. And that's just for starters.

 

 

At 6-foot-4 and 210 pounds, he has just begun to grow into his frame. I see great decision-making, arm strength, touch and accuracy as a passer that will translate to the NFL. And on top of all that, Daniels is the kind of dual-threat runner who can change a game with his top-end speed and elusiveness once he breaks contain and gets into the open field. He is a student of the game, and I expect him to become a dynamic player in today's NFL.

[Ghost of]

3 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

I wouldn’t say he led that drive. My recollection is that Michigan took over 1st and 10 from their own 25 down by 7 with their season on the line and the coaches proceeded to call two run plays and then JJ threw one right into a defender on 3rd down and then a little dink pass on a speed out in the flat to a motioning Blake Corum that he took for 30 yards. His only other completions on the drive were a tipped pass that fell into the hands of a wide open receiver and a TD pass from the 4 yard line.

 

Saying he led the drive is just people trying to convince themselves that he did more than he ever actually did which is the whole story on this kid.

 

 

Typically when a guy is playing QB and comes from behind to win a game, he is described as leading a drive if he throws it at all. The Corum pass is easily one Drake Maye may have dirtballed (McNabb was a good pro QB and did that all the time).  The tipped pass did not "Fall" into the hands of the wide open receiver, he was open (and was being thrown to) and he leaped to make the catch. Don't diminish both McCarthy and Roman Wilson. 

And wait, did you say he threw what would be the game-tying TD Pass? Curious, what do we call that when other QBs do it?

 

Imagine thinking being down by a TD late in the game against Alabama and Nick Saban in the Rose Bowl doesn't require leadership from a quarterback and that just anyone could do it.

[Dah-Dee]

 

[Skinsinparadise]

As far as weapons go, Ekeler is a running motivational poster this off season.  Our first on that count since RG3?    

 

 

 

[CommanderInTheRye]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

As far as weapons go, Ekeler is a running motivational poster this off season.  Our first on that count since RG3?    

 

 

 

 

 

As RGIII would say, "He reminds me, of me."

[illone]

1 hour ago, Going Commando said:

The staff at LSU was legitimately excellent.  They had a magical season whereas Drake Maye spent the year bailing water for a sinking program.  Ignoring this huge difference in situation is sticking your head in the sand.  And so is ignoring the difference in the way each player responded to program dysfunction. 

 

This is a bit hyperbolic, no?

 

LSU fielded one of the worst defenses in college last year. Certainly nothing magical happening there unless you consider defenders disappearing from their gaps, missing tackles and blowing coverage as “magic”. 
 

Mack Brown is one of the best coaches in college football history. In fact, he is the winningest “active” coach in college right now since Saban retired. UNC football has some ground to make up in the NIL department, but to say its a sinking program seems like a stretch. 

[Dah-Dee]

https://commanderswire.usatoday.com/2024/04/15/why-a-scout-analyst-says-commanders-should-take-drake-maye-2024-nfl-draft/

Why a scout/analyst says Commanders should take Drake Maye

Jayden Daniels (LSU) or Drake Maye (UNC) at No. 2 overall?

 

That’s apparently the question for the Washington Commanders over the next 10 days. Local podcaster Al Galdi asked one former NFL scout and current draft analyst last week.

 

Matt Manocherian, the Senior Vice President of Football and Data Analytics for Sports Info Solutions and a former scout for the New Orleans Saints and Cleveland Browns, didn’t hesitate to answer which of the two quarterbacks he liked best and why.

“What I love about him (Maye) is his ability to get the ball down the field, down the seams, accurately, and really on a line”, responded Manocherian. He is able to make what we call a ‘level-two throw.'”

 

“The special arm, the size, the athleticism that he brings to the table, and he is three years removed from high school…he has only played 20 games of college, so there is a lot more growth that can be expected when you look at Maye.”

“I love Maye because I love the upside there,” explained Manocherian.

 

What does Manocherian think of LSU quarterback Jayden Daniels?

 

“Daniels is somebody who has been around the block a little bit. What he did this year was statistically at the top of college football. A really good athlete, but I think this is a player who is a one or two-read quarterback and then bring it down.”

 

“I think you get a high floor with a player like that (Daniels) because of the athleticism and then you are going to live to see another down. You get him in the right position, I think he can become a good player, but I don’t think he has the upside of a Drake Maye, based on the arm talent Maye has and I think the remaining meat-on-the-bone in terms of development.”

 

Galdi then proceeded to ask Manocherian about a criticism of Maye: He is guilty of missing too many layups and underneath passes.

 

Manocherian responded, “When I was taught by Sean Payton to evaluate quarterbacks, he said that the most important thing is that the quarterback can make the ball go where he wants it to go. That is true, and Coach Payton was right about that.”

 

Manocherian summed up his evaluating process by saying, “What do I really care about? It’s not making the easy throws but the ability to make the difficult throws. Because I don’t know very many quarterbacks who can throw a 25-yard out the way Drake Maye can or can put that 8 post right on the guy’s front shoulder pad.”

 

“But I would be lying to you if I didn’t say there is any risk when you talk about someone who has had lapses in accuracy.”

 

Edited April 15 by Dah-Dee

[illone]

22 minutes ago, BayouBrave86 said:

LSU would’ve been a 4-5 win team without Daniels. LSU offense was constantly in go now mode because our defense was historically bad. People forget that. The pressure was ALWAYS on Daniels to deliver any time we played a team with a pulse on offense. Pair Daniels and that offense with just a top 50 defense this season and they’re National Champions at the end of the year. 

 

4-5 wins?  I dont know about that… Nussmeier played well vs an underrated wisconsin defense in the bowl game. Not saying Nussy is better by any stretch but he isnt 5 losses worse than Jayden. 

[Llevron]

2 hours ago, shemp nixon said:

IMO there are too many people in this thread speaking in absolutes about things they do not know.

 

You know what we must do 

 

 

[Ghost of]

If there's

4 minutes ago, illone said:

 

4-5 wins?  I dont know about that… Nussmeier played well vs an underrated wisconsin defense in the bowl game. Not saying Nussy is better by any stretch but he isnt 5 losses worse than Jayden. 

 

"they'd have won a title if not for the defense"

 

Alexa, what's "complementary football?"

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

32 minutes ago, Ghost of said:

 

Typically when a guy is playing QB and comes from behind to win a game, he is described as leading a drive if he throws it at all. The Corum pass is easily one Drake Maye may have dirtballed (McNabb was a good pro QB and did that all the time).  The tipped pass did not "Fall" into the hands of the wide open receiver, he was open (and was being thrown to) and he leaped to make the catch. Don't diminish both McCarthy and Roman Wilson. 

And wait, did you say he threw what would be the game-tying TD Pass? Curious, what do we call that when other QBs do it?

 

Imagine thinking being down by a TD late in the game against Alabama and Nick Saban in the Rose Bowl doesn't require leadership from a quarterback and that just anyone could do it.

Right. Like I said. He completed two little 4 yard passes to uncovered receivers and one other pass that was tipped and was also to an uncovered receiver and we’re going to do all these mental gymnastics to convince ourselves that he deserves to be a top two pick because of it.

Edited April 15 by Sacks 'n' Stuff

[WashingtonRedWolves]

30 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

As far as weapons go, Ekeler is a running motivational poster this off season.  Our first on that count since RG3?    

 

 

 

People were actually not pleased with this signing lol

 

As far as teams still calling for #2, and I'm talking teams sitting at a position beyond any viable alternative like the Raiders, (because I know they're desperately calling) they can sell their souls for all I care. Ya not gettin it

Edited April 15 by WashingtonRedWolves

[Ghost of]

12 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Right. Like I said. He completed two little 4 yard passes and we’re going to do all these mental gymnastics to convince ourselves that he deserves to be a top two pick because of it.

Have you read any of the posts relating to advanced metrics? Or his velocity on his throws? Or the anecdotal stuff about his film work and recognition, winning and making plays to win games? His athletic ability, throwing off platform, manipulating the pocket, his age?

 

If anything, we have to do gymnastics on the two non-Caleb Williams prospects. 

 

And also, there are a bunch of games in 2022 and 2023 to look at, I've even examined bits of them and you're just showing your ignorance.

 

Why did he supplant McNamara? Why did Harbaugh call him the greatest to come out of Michigan (he came out of Michigan, by the way, and he was actually a pro QB)? Why was it obvious that he was more talented than McNamara if anyone could lead the team and he didn't do anything? Did you know that he did told other recruits to go somewhere else if they wanted to party, that they were there to bring Michigan back to glory (he didn't need to start doing something at 530am this year, he was doing it from the beginning)? Why are almost all of his advanced metrics the best of any QB or at least in strong competition with the top prospects if it's mental gymnastics?

Edited April 15 by Ghost of

[Dah-Dee]

24 minutes ago, illone said:

4-5 wins?  I dont know about that… Nussmeier played well vs an underrated wisconsin defense in the bowl game. Not saying Nussy is better by any stretch but he isnt 5 losses worse than Jayden. 

 

Yeah, I think it's really hard to guess how a team would do if you plugged in player A for player B.  In addition, specifically regarding that bowl game, Wisconsin had like 15-16 players opt out, so it wasn't really even the same defense that beat up on the 60th-ranked schedule for that above-average-ish defensive ranking.

 

Nussmeier is less consistent than Daniels, he actually reminds me of Maye a little bit (though Maye is flat out better): strong arm, can move around (although LSU hasn't used him as a runner, like at all lol), makes some great throws and some inexplicably bad ones. Covid, NIL and the transfer portal are combining with redshirting to change the college landscape, too: Nussmeier is going to be a 22-year-old junior who turns 23 right after the season ends.

 

Edited April 15 by Dah-Dee

[Skinsinparadise]

Hiring multiple analytics guys, multiple sports science people, PT recovery speciliasts.  On and on.

 

I'll double down ZERO chance.  I wouldn't even give it 1% chance that they draft a QB purely with 2024 in mind. These guys aren't just future oriented thinkers by reputation but its sort of their ethos.

 

Now whether people agree with who they pick is a different scene.  But it goes against this regime's DNA to put some cheap wins in 2024 at the expense of 2025 and beyond.

 

And heck even if these guys didn't have that reputation, think of it this way.

 

1.  Why the heck would a first year HC and first year GM feel under the gun to win this season let alone feeling that way for an owner known for his patience

 

2.  Wouldn't they look like idiots if their choice at QB flammed out in short order and the one they skipped turns into Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson in short order?  Talk about egg in your face

 

 

 

Edited April 15 by Skinsinparadise

[Warhead36]

Every new analytics based hire increases our chances of drafting Maye. There are almost no advanced metrics that suggest Daniels is better than Maye, he fails almost all of them.

[SoCalSkins]

55 minutes ago, BayouBrave86 said:

The ASU program was as dysfunctional as it gets. They had 16 plus players transfer out after 2021.

 

 

Daniels and his mom played a huge role in that dysfunction!! Daniels played a role in multiple coaches getting fired. 

[illone]

9 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Every new analytics based hire increases our chances of drafting Maye. There are almost no advanced metrics that suggest Daniels is better than Maye, he fails almost all of them.

 

 

JJ beats Maye in most of those categories.  Especially those the NFL cares about: 3rd down, 4th down, accuracy, etc.

 

Nothing to see here, though. Back to the Maye love fest😂

[skinny21]

11 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Every new analytics based hire increases our chances of drafting Maye. There are almost no advanced metrics that suggest Daniels is better than Maye, he fails almost all of them.

I’m assuming this means you don’t count QBR and EPA as advanced metrics?

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

I’m assuming this means you don’t count QBR and EPA as advanced metrics?

 

Daniels performed better on a bunch of PFF anayltics too.  Warren Sharp who is all about numbers, had Maye out of his top 10 when he did a mock.   Aaron Schatz, Football Outsiders guy had Daniels rated as the more likely to succeed and less likely to bust head to head versus Maye.

 

Having said that as I mentioned, the PFF guys joked recently that their anayltics have failed them as to diciphering QBs and they are making just as much of a crap shoot guess as anyone else.

 

I'll say though that the PFF guys are the highest among the draft media about Maye so I enjoy listening to their Maye love.  But most of them aren't Daniels haters either, most of them dig him too while preferring Maye. 

Edited April 15 by Skinsinparadise

[Ghost of]

9 minutes ago, illone said:

 

 

JJ beats Maye in most of those categories.  Especially those the NFL cares about: 3rd down, 4th down, accuracy, etc.

 

Nothing to see here, though. Back to the Maye love fest😂

 

Yes, people keep having this argument because other people (who almost never watched college football more than casually and certainly did not follow Michigan) told them you can't take X, Y, Z seriously and therefore it's just between the two guys. 

 

You know it's funny, near the end of the season, I don't know anyone who thought Daniels was a top 3 guy (as in top 3 picks.) Now he is. People just rolled over on it.  But if someone suggests McCarthy, the younger-than-Maye even, the best all-around metrics, former five-star with 4.5 speed and the fifth fastest shuttle at the combine (of all positions) state and national HS champion and now college champion is worthy of consideration---no, nope. Can't do it.

Edited April 15 by Ghost of

[illone]

Just now, Ghost of said:

 

Yes, people keep having this argument because other people (who almost never watched college football more than casually and certainly did not follow Michigan) told them you can't take X, Y, Z seriously and therefore it's just between the two guys. 

 

You know it's funny, near the end of the season, I don't know anyone who thought Daniels was a top 3 guy (as in top 3 picks.) Now he is. People just rolled over on it.  But if someone suggests McCarthy, the younger-than-Maye even, former five-star with 4.5 speed and the fifth fastest shuttle at the combine (of all positions) state and national HS champion and now college champion is worthy of consideration---no, nope. Can't do it.

 

 

WiNnInG dOeSn'T mAtTeR